S05:E13 - Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep?

[Saroth 102]

You don't understand the episode's dark theme. Over jealousy of her sister, she put everyone's lives in peril as Nightmare Moon. Without sunlight, no one can grow crops, which makes Equestria starve to death. Although other ponies forgave her, they never showed Luna forgiving herself. Luna punished herself because she couldn't put what she did behind her, and the Tantabus was created to escape her inability to self-forgive. Think of this episode as an allegory to cutting. The mental pain that many people with depression is so treacherous, many will physically hurt themselves to help alleviate the mental pain. Often, cutters won't discuss it or reveal their scars because they feel they will put a burden on others. Luna didn't tell the Mane Six because she feels doing so will put a burden on them and make it worse instead.

I understand the theme and point of the episode and Luna's lack of self forgiveness, but I feel that even in that context, creating a being potentially capable of taking over the world is one of the worst things she could have done to help the situation. It isn't just self harm, it's self harm which could cause harm to the entire world. It's hardly even comparable to cutting when the methods used are so dangerous that the entire world is at stake. That's just how I feel about it anyway.

[Dark Qiviut 22,383]

I understand the theme and point of the episode and Luna's lack of self forgiveness, but I feel that even in that context, creating a being potentially capable of taking over the world is one of the worst things she could have done to help the situation. It isn't just self harm, it's self harm which could cause harm to the entire world. It's hardly even comparable to cutting when the methods used are so dangerous that the entire world is at stake. That's just how I feel about it anyway.

The context makes plenty of sense. Luna self-punished because those deeds really embedded deep into her mind, and the Tantabus was created to help alleviate it. It absorbed so much of her guilt, this self-harming technique was going to put a burden on everyone, not just her. World-threatening notwithstanding, it's VERY comparable to cutting, because the methods, reasons, and consequences are similar. Luna told no one until the last minute because she didn't want to be seen as incompetent, futile, and a letdown. A lot of people who keep their cutting in the closet share the same feelings.

[Saroth 102]

The context makes plenty of sense. Luna self-punished because those deeds really embedded deep into her mind, and the Tantabus was created to help alleviate it. It absorbed so much of her guilt, this self-harming technique was going to put a burden on everyone, not just her. World-threatening notwithstanding, it's VERY comparable to cutting, because the methods, reasons, and consequences are similar. Luna told no one until the last minute because she didn't want to be seen as incompetent, futile, and a letdown. A lot of people who keep their cutting in the closet share the same feelings.

I guess we're both viewing this in different ways. I've never been a person to 'get' depression and self harm because I've never had it myself so I'm viewing this from a "Luna that was the worst method you could have possibly used" view. To be fair on the writers, not much could have been done with an episode of this sort of theme without either becoming too dark or too boring. I just think it's a reckless thing to do when the consequences can be so dire.

[Lyra's Pants 154]

Hahaha! I knew Flutterbat would eventually make an appearance in another MLP episode! They called me mad! They called me crazy! They called me Bob! But I showed everyone that Flutterbat would return! Never mess with a man with an Associate's Degree in College!

 

But in all honesty, I thought this was an interesting episode. A bit on a bizarre side, but from what I saw in episode like Power Ponies, I think I'm growing desensitized to all the craziness of the MLP universe.

[Time Shield 402]

I guess we're both viewing this in different ways. I've never been a person to 'get' depression and self harm because I've never had it myself so I'm viewing this from a "Luna that was the worst method you could have possibly used" view. To be fair on the writers, not much could have been done with an episode of this sort of theme without either becoming too dark or too boring. I just think it's a reckless thing to do when the consequences can be so dire.

 

But didn't she say early on in the episode that she didn't realize it would be able to escape her dream?  That was an unexpected development after the fact, which means that she didn't know that creating it could have consequences.  Ergo, she was not knowingly putting other ponies at risk by doing this.

 

*EDIT*  Yeah, rewatched that scene just now.  "I saw that the Tantabus had grown more powerful, but I did not realize that power was enough to enable it to escape my dreams."

Edited August 10, 2015 by Time Shield

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

But didn't she say early on in the episode that she didn't realize it would be able to escape her dream?  That was an unexpected development after the fact, which means that she didn't know that creating it could have consequences.  Ergo, she was not knowingly putting other ponies at risk by doing this.

 

*EDIT*  Yeah, rewatched that scene just now.  "I saw that the Tantabus had grown more powerful, but I did not realize that power was enough to enable it to escape my dreams."

Good point, Time Shield. I saw in some reviews this part is counted as a negative of the episode A.k.a plot hole. Thanks for clearing this part for me =]]

[Caliboom 219]

I really loved the episode, and, oh boy, that Alicorn Big Mac scene. It was just glorious.

[Birdy the Phoenix 70]

This was one of my favorite episodes; I'm struggling between calling this one and Slice of Life my favorite episode.

Not only did it have Princess Luna in it, it showed what goes inside other pony's heads.

[hetaliapony 14]

i persanaly liked the efert put in it but the speed was to fast but i think haveing a boy alicorn is a good idea and the epasode all around was good and the moral is awsome,the past is the past dont let it tormented you, i think that is what it was.

[Ember Scales 43]

I'm just gonna say it, this is by far the WORST episode of season 5. They way they handle the "self harm" topic is horrible and they shake it off like its nothing. They onlky reason people love this episode is, by tumblr logic, cause its about Luna. I mean seriously, you can have an episode where Luna killes a ton of innocent ponies and people would still cradle it as a good episode.

 

My biggest gripe with the episode is how it ends. The whole way through the episode looked like it could've been a great metaphor for depression. But then Luna says that she created the tantabus and the episode goes down from there... It would have been a much better episode if The tantabus was just a creature. Not a force that Luna created. And maybe even better if it was made into a two parter. Cause let me tell ya, that ending was rushed faster than Magical Mystery Cure. It had great potential but the fact they treat self harm like it was just a personality quirk made this the worst luna episode ever. I don't need to go into any more detail because someone better already made this argument. I'll leave the video below

 

Edited August 19, 2015 by Ember Scales

[Luffyiscool 397]

They only reason people love this episode is, by tumblr logic, cause its about Luna. I mean seriously, you can have an episode where Luna killes a ton of innocent ponies and people would still cradle it as a good episode.

 

That's some nice hot tasty hyperbole you have there. 

[Ember Scales 43]

That's some nice hot tasty hyperbole you have there.

 

i can see what you mean, but Luna gets way too much love. She is completely overrated and because of this episode, I know consider her worst princess

[Melon Blitz 423]

I liked this episode. I thought it was funny that Luna never dreams about Celestia, and when the dreams of everyone in Ponyville were merged Pinkie Pie didn't do anything crazy.

 

When does Luna actually sleep though? She's awake during the day and I guess she's usually awake at night doing moon/night things. She either never sleeps, or (plot twist) she's always asleep. XD

[SpottedOwls 20]

Eh. This episode was interesting, but I felt like it tried too hard to pander, with Man-Spike, Derpy, Lyra-Bon, etc.

 

I did really love the episode (especially Rainbow's dream) but the huge dream part kinda lessened the episode in my mind.

 

Was still enjoyable though.

[Cyandashie 128]

I need to start watching more MLP.


I mean seriously, I'm many episodes behind. At least it's not a few seasons behind, like last year.

I STILL haven't even watched all the S1 and S2 (some S3) yet.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Dashie2012

[tigris115 17]

Does anyone know what they used to make Nightmare Angel's roar?

 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3xb9wndTgRg"frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Melon Blitz 423]

Does anyone know what they used to make Nightmare Angel's roar?

 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3xb9wndTgRg"frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

kinda sounds like a t-rex from jurassic park lol

[tigris115 17]

kinda sounds like a t-rex from jurassic park lol

Not really. It sounds a lot less deep and bellowing. More like a scream. Whose the sound engineer on the MLP staff?

[Melon Blitz 423]

Not really. It sounds a lot less deep and bellowing. More like a scream. Whose the sound engineer on the MLP staff?

sounds pretty similar to me

https://youtu.be/9TjxvA4kjwM?t=1m16s

https://youtu.be/3xb9wndTgRg?t=13s

[tigris115 17]

sounds pretty similar to me

https://youtu.be/9TjxvA4kjwM?t=1m16s

https://youtu.be/3xb9wndTgRg?t=13s

I don't know how to describe it but I don't think they're the same.

[Melon Blitz 423]

I don't know how to describe it but I don't think they're the same.

they're not exactly the same sound file, they can't be because of copyright. I'm saying they are similar, the T-Rex roar is an iconic sound and probably inspired the Angel one. The video even describes what they used to make the sounds.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Melon Blitz

[Rawzy 1,302]

oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh.....LUNA!!!....I might be overreacting a bit but...LUNA!!!!! now when was the last time Luna actually took a major role in an episode scince season 1 episode 30? ahah

 

 

Does anyone know what they used to make Nightmare Angel's roar?

 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3xb9wndTgRg"frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I agree with tigris115 in a way. I mean, it does kinda sound like some sort of dinosaur scream...crossed with other types of dinosaurs.

Naahhhhh they probably just got some guy from the mlp staff to scream into the mic xD

[tigris115 17]

oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh.....LUNA!!!....I might be overreacting a bit but...LUNA!!!!! now when was the last time Luna actually took a major role in an episode scince season 1 episode 30? ahah

 

 

I agree with tigris115 in a way. I mean, it does kinda sound like some sort of dinosaur scream...crossed with other types of dinosaurs.

Naahhhhh they probably just got some guy from the mlp staff to scream into the mic xD

Now that you mention that, they probably did edit a human scream and mixed with with other animals.

[Lunawasframed 28]

Obviously, given my display name, I am a Luna sympathizer.  I agree with the critique that the story was rushed.  However, I thought it was courageous of the writers to introduce the difficult topic of guilt.  Generally on kids' shows guilt is presented as a one dimensional concept and very small in scale (example: someone breaks a lamp, feels guilty, lies about breaking lamp, feels guilty about lying).

 

I could see that the topic would make some uncomfortable, and might be a little heavy for the young viewers.  However, I thought the message was powerful in expressing how unresolved feelings of guilt can be destructive to ourselves.  And, the show took it a step further by showing how when we let our guilt harm ourselves mentally it can have a negative impact on people around us (unintentionally).  While the pace for Luna breaking her cycle of Guilt and Self-Punishment was very fast, it was still a beautiful moment.  

 

I also like that a reformed antagonist showed remorse later on in the series--I loved that season 5 went back to the very first episodes by addressing Twilight's neglected Canterlot friends and the psychological aftermath of Nightmare Moon.  

[Rawzy 1,302]

I need to start watching more MLP.

 

 

I mean seriously, I'm many episodes behind. At least it's not a few seasons behind, like last year.

 

I STILL haven't even watched all the S1 and S2 (some S3) yet.

I wouldnt be able to stand to move to the next season without watching all of the previous one. You must have at least seen the premiers and finale's though right? otherwise in season 4 you would have just been like wtf