S05:E22 - What About Discord

[Music Chart Fan 819]

Overall, I didn't like this episode. The episode is effective at eliciting sympathy with Twilight's position of missing out on the rest of the Mane Six's and Discord's weekend activities, and not being "in" on their jokes and stories as they tell them repeatedly. Twilight's bitter outburst near the end of the episode closely reflects how I felt up to that point in the episode. So one reason for my not liking the episode is that it produces those negative emotions of annoyance, bitterness, disappointment, etc. that Twilight was feeling. However, perhaps more importantly, in order to hammer in the "point" of the episode, the rest of the Mane Six had to be made inconsiderate to Twilight and oblivious of her feelings, and Spike had to be made a bit of a smug jerk about the whole thing. And while the ending of the episode tried to wrap everything up and set things right again, I found it unsatisfying. Twilight was made to be the one in the wrong and in need of a lesson, but I thought that all the main characters in the episode had their faults, and everyone else's faults (except perhaps for Discord's, a little bit) seemed to be glossed over or ignored in the service of Twilight's lesson.

 

First, as mentioned above, the rest of the Mane Six are rather unbelievably inconsiderate of Twilight and seemingly oblivious to her developing feelings of "jealousy" throughout most of the episode. It is true that Discord often instigates the inside jokes and stories of how great their weekend was, and he most likely deliberately did so wherever Twilight was going. However, throughout most of the episode, the rest of the Mane Six do lots of little things that add to Twilight's feelings of bitterness, annoyance, regret, and disappointment. They repeatedly laugh long and hard at their inside jokes in front of Twilight, including interrupting her conversation to do so, even after all of them know that Twilight doesn't get the jokes and doesn't find them funny. Rainbow Dash even does one of the inside jokes to Twilight's face. When Twilight is unamused by this behavior, on multiple occasions, they say something like "It's funny if you were there", even as such statements serve no good purpose other than to make Twilight feel bad. And even as Twilight's "jealous" feelings are building, to the point of her obsessing over recreating the scenes of the inside jokes they're repeating over and over again, none of the rest of the Mane Six seem concerned about Twilight or even sympathetic to the position she's in. This seems like another case of characters conveniently forgetting common decency and lessons that they seemingly already learned in the course of the show.

 

Spike's smugness about Twilight's "jealous" feelings also didn't help matters. Several times, Spike seems to gloat about having discovered Twilight's "jealousy" before she'll admit it, and he makes statements to the effect of "Why don't you just admit you're jealous already?". Having an attitude like that only makes it more difficult for Twilight to open up about her feelings, and increases the instinct for her to double down on denying those feelings, if for no other reason than not to admit openly that she's wrong and give Spike even more reason to act smug. 

 

And that brings us to Twilight. First, yes, it was stupid for Twilight to insist that she can't get jealous because she's the Princess of Friendship. It probably would have worked out better for her to admit and talk about her negative feelings rather than letting them build up to the extent that she did. Having her friends painstakingly attempt to recreate their weekend fun time while insisting that it's "scientific" and "for a good cause", when really it's just because she's disappointed and annoyed that she missed out, is a waste of everyone's time and effort. The mere fact that her friends have inside jokes with Discord that they find hilarious, but that she doesn't get, is not in itself sufficient evidence that they're under a spell by Discord. So Twilight certainly had her faults in this episode.

 

However, as I mentioned above, I don't like that Twilight was painted in this episode as being entirely in the wrong. For one thing, while we can argue that Twilight should have confessed her "jealous" feelings, it's understandable that she didn't. As mentioned above, Spike's attitude didn't help, but also, I feel like the social norm is more for the responsibility to fall on people telling inside jokes and stories to realize when other people aren't "in" on them, and to either explain them, or, if that's not realistic, at least to tone them down and not harp on about them. It seems like it would be more awkward for the "out" person to say "Hey, would you please either explain your joke/story or stop talking about it?", and doing something like that would run a high risk of coming across as petulant or even pathetic. 

 

Also, Twilight was made to look foolish for suspecting that the rest of the Mane Six were under Discord's spell, and while her given reason for that suspicion (i.e., that they're having fun with Discord and think his jokes are hilarious while Twilight doesn't get them) is kind of flimsy on its own, I don't think that suspecting that Discord put them under a spell was that unreasonable. The rest of the Mane Six's repeated inconsiderate actions, as mentioned above, seemed out-of-character and became reason to suspect that the rest of the Mane Six weren't being themselves. And also, considering how much Discord apparently likes to see the Mane Six get frustrated and waste their time and effort for his amusement, Discord's doing something like that would seem well within the realm of possibility. Of course, adding to the effort to make Twilight look foolish, Twilight is brutally blunt about telling the rest of the Mane Six to drink the potion to break Discord's spell. Would Twilight really think that it would be that simple? If the rest of the Mane Six really were under Discord's spell, wouldn't it reasonable to presume that, as part of the spell, they would resist breaking it and refuse such an obvious attempt to do so?

 

Despite Twilight's bluntness, though, the rest of the Mane Six's indignation at the mere suggestion that Discord put them under a spell is still overblown. Fluttershy says "I know Discord still makes mistakes sometimes, but you're accusing him of being downright evil!". But if Discord put them under a spell, that wouldn't be a mistake, and wouldn't necessarily be "evil". Discord could have done so just to mess with them and laugh at their expense, and if so, it would be good to break the spell before someone, say, snaps and does something crazy, which has happened several times before in the show. And Rainbow Dash says "And to top it off, you're accusing us of not being able to tell he was up to something! What do you take us for?". But that assumes that Discord's casting a spell on them is something that they could tell was happening, and would be able to resist or stop from occurring, and it's not obvious that that's the case. Who says that Discord couldn't have cast a spell on them without their realizing it?

 

Finally, the last few minutes of the episode introduced a lot of things to talk about. First, while Twilight's lesson is really driven in by both Spike and the rest of the Mane Six and by Discord, I feel like Spike and the rest of the Mane Six need to (re)learn a lesson about keeping their friends' feelings in consideration and taking their friends' concerns seriously. But the ending of the episode doesn't give much indication that they learned this. Twilight says the rest of the Mane Six "didn't do anything wrong", even though it certainly seems that they did. Twilight says "You're allowed to share things that don't include me", which is well and good, but if they do so, then maybe they shouldn't repeatedly bring those things up in such a way that Twilight would feel annoyed, disappointed, etc. that she wasn't there. Fluttershy gives a token "We're sorry if we made you feel left out", but did the rest of the Mane Six really not realize that Twilight was feeling left out before her outburst? It seems like they should have, and that's a lesson that I feel like they should have (re)learned.

 

Then there's Discord's revelation that none of this would have happened if he hadn't encouraged the rest of the Mane Six not to invite Twilight to their weekend activities. First, why did Discord feel the need to teach Twilight this particular lesson? Has Discord been observing Twilight and came to the conclusion that Twilight needed to learn this lesson? But also, it's not clear exactly what sequence of events happened. Twilight says "They wanted me to be there? And you convinced them to not invite me?", and no one denies that. So I'm imagining the rest of the Mane Six thinking that Twilight would want to join them, and being on the verge of inviting her (maybe even in the process of going to her castle to do so), but then Discord somehow convincing them not to even try to invite her. I really don't know what Discord could have said or done to cause the rest of the Mane Six to do this complete turnaround in thinking, especially since, at that point, they probably would still have harbored at least some mistrust of him (as Twilight does in the episode). Discord says "I didn't think that they should interrupt you", which may be corroborated by Fluttershy earlier in the episode saying "We would've invited you to come along too, but we didn't want to interrupt your organizing. We know how important it is to you". But why would the rest of the Mane Six take Discord's word for it that Twilight wouldn't even want to be asked to come, if they originally thought otherwise? Wouldn't they know better than Discord whether Twilight would want to join them? And besides, what's the worst that could have happened from merely asking Twilight if she wants to come along? Would Twilight really have gotten upset with them just because they asked?

 

And in considering all of this, I do wonder to what extent Twilight herself could be blamed for the rest of the Mane Six ultimately not inviting her to come with them. Some of the other Mane Six ask Twilight how her book-sort-cation went, so they seem to be aware that she planned to do that. But did Twilight actually tell them "I'm having a book-sort-cation this weekend, don't disturb me or ask to do any other activities this weekend no matter what"? If so, then Twilight would shoulder some of the burden of guilt for missing out on their activities, and the lesson from that would be not to tell your friends not to disturb you if you aren't actually doing something urgent (and Twilight's book-sort-cation is not urgent). If that's what happened, though, then it just raises the question again of what Discord said or did to dissuade the rest of the Mane Six from inviting Twilight. In that scenario, wouldn't they have already decided to honor Twilight's wishes and not disturb her, regardless of what Discord said? But if Twilight didn't say something like that, such that the rest of the Mane Six thought that Twilight would want to join them (maybe putting off her book-sort-cation), then Twilight wouldn't really have much to feel guilty about - her not joining the rest of the Mane Six would be almost entirely on Discord.

 

And really, would Twilight have demanded that her friends not disturb her book-sort-cation for any reason? If the goal was for Twilight to relax, couldn't hanging out with her friends be a part of that? Twilight (and Spike) could even have just taken a break from book sorting and joined everyone for lunch, and maybe they would have ended up hanging out even longer after that. I don't know, it seems like Twilight should know better than to be so stupidly dogmatic about not disturbing her book-sort-cation, especially when it comes to hanging out with her best friends.

 

After Discord's revelation that he manipulated the rest of the Mane Six into not inviting Twilight in order to teach her a lesson, it was a little surprising that the rest of the Mane Six immediately stop being amused at all by Discord's inside jokes, considering how hilarious the rest of the Mane Six found those jokes before. And then, of course, the Mane Six, including Twilight, proceed to make their own inside jokes and laugh at them at Discord's expense. I suppose the positive interpretation of all this is that (1) the rest of the Mane Six genuinely find Twilight's self-depreciating inside joke funny; (2) regardless of whether Twilight's joke was funny, all of them are miffed at Discord's manipulation of them and use this as a way get back at him; and/or (3) by laughing at Twilight's joke, the rest of the Mane Six are, in a way, apologizing to her and making her feel included again. The negative interpretation is that the rest of the Mane Six appear not to have learned any lesson about not making their friends (to the extent that Discord can be classified as a friend) feel left out by inside jokes that exclude them.

 

And to finish everything off, Discord instantly feels bad about being left out of the Mane Six's inside jokes. I might think that Discord would be a little more resilient than that, but never mind. Twilight conjures up an orange for Discord as a reference to his now-defunct inside joke with the rest of the Mane Six, and Discord - having gotten his comeuppance, I guess - seems to immediately get over his bad feelings. Discord wraps everyone in a hug, everybody laughs together, Twilight and the rest of the Mane Six are fine with Discord, Discord's fine with them, everything's right with the world again. This all feels more than a bit rushed and forced, as though this episode really needed a happy ending, but there was only a limited time to make one (even as there were other parts of the episode that overstayed their welcome, intentionally or not).

 

Now for my other observations that didn't fit into all the above paragraphs:

 

Twilight's new system for organizing the books decreases search time for a book by nearly 0.75 seconds. So, assuming that she spent three 12-hour days sorting and reshelving the books, she would have to perform 172,800 book searches in order to break even with the time taken to implement this system and actually start saving time on book searches. And that's not even counting the time taken to devise the system, and whatever time and effort Spike had to put into sorting and shelving. But of course, the main point was probably for Twilight to relax and have fun devising and implementing the system, not really to increase her total efficiency or productivity.

 

It's a little weird that Twilight refers to having a "long weekend", since that would seem to imply a regular Monday-Friday work schedule. Does Twilight have regular work hours like that? 

 

Twilight calls her and Spike's days in the library "three very productive days", but, as noted above, were those days really even about productivity?

 

Twilight says when trying to recreate the lunch date scene that "When it comes to science, everything matters. One change to the equation could ruin the experiment". But that just raises the question of what equation she has in mind, and what the variables are in that equation. Part of scientific research is figuring out which variables are likely to be relevant and have a relationship with the outcomes you're studying. You could spend an eternity trying to account for the effect of every single variable you can think of; at some point, you have to figure that some variables won't make a significant difference in the outcome.

 

Zecora says the cauldron in the middle of her hut is just for show, but for show to whom? I thought Zecora didn't really get many visitors.

 

Is the potion bottle Zecora gave to Twilight magical? It seems to contain much more liquid than it should be able to, considering how long Twilight pours it out, and how long Pinkie subsequently pours it in her mouth.

 

Discord says that Twilight's getting jealous is a "happy accident". That statement would seem to reveal the malintent on Discord's part.

 

Also, Discord gets glee from watching the Mane Six all waste their time attempting to painstakingly recreate the lunch date from the weekend. Discord really is some kind of friend, huh?

[Jangocoolguy 433]

yet another in a series of "meh" episodes with some good stuff here and there.

 

I'm getting more worried that "Friendship is Magic" truly is losing its magic

 

An episode with Discord AND Zecora shouldn't be so...dull x_x

[Luffyiscool 397]

Is the potion bottle Zecora gave to Twilight magical? It seems to contain much more liquid than it should be able to, considering how long Twilight pours it out, and how long Pinkie subsequently pours it in her mouth.

I think you over-thought that part while your brain was in analysis mode.

That was just a simple case of "cartoon physics", which have been bendable from the beginning.

 

yet another in a series of "meh" episodes with some good stuff here and there.

 

I'm getting more worried that "Friendship is Magic" truly is losing its magic

 

An episode with Discord AND Zecora shouldn't be so...dull x_x

Really? I personally loved this one.

In fact, why would you feel like the show is losing it's magic?

In my opinion, season 5 on the whole has been great to excellent so far, with the only "meh" episodes being princess spike, appleoosa's most wanted, and the one where pinkie knows.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Luffyiscool

[Truffles 2,033]

The outfit in that was a scene from the Bill Murray movie "What About Bob?" (Which the title of this episode was a play on) in the movie "Bob" has his pet fish in a jar he wears around his neck, Discord is wearing a jar with "Smooze".

 

Heh, I was actually referring to Pinkie's Marty McFly scene with the "life preserver". In the original "BttF", either Marty's mom or her parents refer to his 80's outfit as resembling a life preserver. 

 

 

If you have a chance, try to watch that movie, it's pretty relevant to this episode, unless you need to reorganize your library, and want to feel left out on the "in" joke. LOL¡

Thanks! Yeah I never saw "What About Bob." I've programmed it into my DVR now, so the next time it's on it will be recorded!

 

 

Back to the episode discussion:  Is it a coincidence that this episode has Discord show Twilight as a jealous friend after he's caught feeling jealous over Tree Hugger in "Keep Calm and Flutter On?"

 

I think not!  :okiedokielokie:

 

"What About Discord" could be considered a pseudo-sequel to that episode, with Discord intent on getting comeuppance for being embarrassed at the gala. Why did he choose Twilight? Well he can't hurt Fluttershy again after the S4 finale, so he goes to his usual target, good old reliable Princess Twily...

[Spartan 433]

This is an episode that I have to wonder, "Why?" Why was it even thought of? One of the WORST episodes to date, maybe the worst. But every show has atleast one :/

[Luffyiscool 397]

This is an episode that I have to wonder, "Why?" Why was it even thought of? One of the WORST episodes to date, maybe the worst. But every show has atleast one :/

It always fascinates me when I see opinions so polar opposite to my own. It intrigues me so.

Not asking you to elaborate btw, just musing to myself.

[Spartan 433]

It always fascinates me when I see opinions so polar opposite to my own. It intrigues me so.

Not asking you to elaborate btw, just musing to myself.

Thats what makes life so much fun, well kinda lol.

 

 Im not a fan of Discord (Hate Trolls), and I didnt like the plotline in this one.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Spartan

[redshell 195]

I don't understand the episode at all

[Luffyiscool 397]

I don't understand the episode at all

I guess you just had to be there.

[redshell 195]

I guess you just had to be there.

no, no! Don't start that. I watched this episode

[Music Chart Fan 819]

Here's something rather cute that I haven't seen mentioned yet. Early in the episode, Twilight and Spike hit the ground after Rainbow Dash and Discord dive toward them out of the air. When the dust clears, we see that Twilight is protecting Spike with her wing. It's actually pretty cool that Twilight instinctually did that when she thought that she and Spike were in danger.

 

[immblueversion 331]

And did anyone else notice Discord holding Fluttershy's seat when they all gathered at the lunch table?

[colt .45 259]

 

 

 

Thanks! Yeah I never saw "What About Bob." I've programmed it into my DVR now, so the next time it's on it will be recorded!

 

 

Back to the episode discussion:  Is it a coincidence that this episode has Discord show Twilight as a jealous friend after he's caught feeling jealous over Tree Hugger in "Make New Friends, But Keep Discord"

It was on tonight! Don't know if you get FLIX channel, but it was on there.

 

I made a rather lengthy post earlier, about how Discord was sharing the lesson he had learned about jealousy in "Make New Friends but Keep Discord" with Twilight. Just in his trollish, Discord, way.

[Rainboom Dash 1,056]

Enjoyed this one, the ending twist was something I honestly didn't see coming.

[Crecious 256]

I liked this episode, to an extent. But I found the problem was, too realistic, when explaining to people why I liked the show, I explain that it has real applications to real world problems.

But this one, just reminded me of petty jerkish people I've met in my past.

 I was a social outcast in my childhood, and this episode really hit home, and reminded me how ostracized I was.

[Sunset188 193]

I enjoyed it. I don't particularly like Discord all that much to be quite honest, especially now that he is "reformed". However I thought that this was an important lesson for Twilight. I was on her side the whole episode though hahaha

[Truffles 2,033]

It was on tonight! Don't know if you get FLIX channel, but it was on there.

 

I made a rather lengthy post earlier, about how Discord was sharing the lesson he had learned about jealousy in "Make New Friends but Keep Discord" with Twilight. Just in his trollish, Discord, way.

 

Aww, I don't get Flix. Hopefully it will show up on one of the more basic movie channels!

 

I found your post! I think it wedged itself into my subconscious.     Congrats on achieving inception! 

Though I'm still on the fence as to his true motives. That is, whether he was really trying to be helpful in a trollish way or was really trying to tweak her for having been exposed in "Make New Friends..."

[cider float 2,538]

It was okay because it wasn't just another "let's introduce another character" and throw it into the pile. 

 

But ugh, Discord he's overused.

Edited November 9, 2015 by cider float

[colt .45 259]

Aww, I don't get Flix. Hopefully it will show up on one of the more basic movie channels!

 

I found your post! I think it wedged itself into my subconscious.     Congrats on achieving inception! 

Though I'm still on the fence as to his true motives. That is, whether he was really trying to be helpful in a trollish way or was really trying to tweak her for having been exposed in "Make New Friends..."

 

Maybe it's the voice, but I just get this real Q and Picard vibe between Twi and Discord. Trollish, but helpful.

Also, remember, in "Twilights Kingdom" he marked and highlighted the entries in the journal, that lead them to discovering the keys. That was pretty damn helpful! On the other hoof, he stole the journal to do that. Trollish!

[CT-1138 3,182]

And did anyone else notice Discord holding Fluttershy's seat when they all gathered at the lunch table?

Two friends doing things that friends would do together! We must ship it!

[Lexamena 391]

I thought it was a great episode even if it was run of the mill. Not every episode can or needs to be mind blowing. I actually like only having one or two epic episodes per season. Generally there needs to be something big happen in the middle somewhere, but otherwise I'm fine with only a season finale being the big epic. Otherwise jumping the shark becomes a real threat. Expectations get too high and inevitably viewers are disappointed more often than they should be. Season five tried too hard if you ask me. I've enjoyed the basic episodes like this one much more than the epic ones. I don't have anything against larger story arch episodes unless they feel really manufactured instead of naturally occuring.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Lexamena

[LyricaDreamy 43]

They should stop thinking bad of discord ,its getting old. :okiedokielokie: 

[A10 23]

This episode was alright.

I disliked the fact that the rest of the Mane 6 were so inconsiderate to Twilight's feelings in this episode. They somewhat made up for it in the end, but it was not explicitly addressed well. 

Nonetheless, the message was very good. Jealousy is a real thing in friendships, and it was good that they addressed it. I think the fact that this episode rubs many of us off in the wrong way means that the writers did a good job of making us empathize with Twilight and her struggle. 

Also, this episode further solidified the fact that though Twilight is the Princess of Friendship, she is definitely not perfect. When bronies first heard of Twilight becoming a princess, weren't at least a handful of them afraid that she'd become some sort of Mary Sue? Well, this episode definitely emphasizes the fact that this is not the case. 

A good friend of my on another forum mentioned how Discord had these same feelings of jealousy in "Make New Friends but Keep Discord". We've seen in episodes like "Three's A Crowd" that Discord likes to give Twilight twisted tests, so this is no different from that. The difference that make this episode seem "worse" is that Twilight had a worse struggle. 

Overall, I don't think that this episode was bad. It's not my favorite S5 episode so far, but that doesn't mean it's not good. 

[Rivulet 116]

The references were real with this one. The Morty (Back to the Future) one, Discord's sprint when he first showed up and left I'd saw was a reference to Scooby Doo or Sonic's 'Run in place' thing. Then the Bob Ross. The Bob Ross was real with this one.

[Luffyiscool 397]

They should stop thinking bad of discord ,its getting old. :okiedokielokie: 

Are you kidding me? This episode shows that his relationship with the mane six is BETTER THAN IT EVER WAS.

The trio of "let's blast him back to stone!", Rarity, Applejack, and Rainbow Dash, are BONDING WITH HIM AND LAUGHING WITH HIM.