Has Starlight turned into FiM's Sunset?

[Concerned Bystander 2,903]

What is the difference between Starlight Glimmer and Sunset Shimmer?

Trick question!  There is *no* difference at all!  They have (figuratively) literally turned Starlight into exactly the same character, albeit with a different design.

1. Tried to destroy the world? Check
2. Blink and you'll miss it reformation? Check
3. Less guilt than she should really have, given the consequences of her actions?  Check
4. Sudden and inexplicable complete change of personality from confident and domineering to docile and demure? Check

 

I'm sure I won't have been the only one to draw this parallel, so what does everybody else think?

 

Has Starlight Glimmer now become Equestria's very own Sunset Shimmer?  Or do they both stand out to you as being unique individuals?

 

Before anyone mentions their design, yes, it's clearly axiomatic that they both look different, so let's just take that as read and leave it out of the discussion.

[Fawkes The Phoenix 737]

Put Discord there as well, he has gone through the same steps. Actually, Starlight never really "tried" to destroy the world, and if she was reformed quickly is up to discussion. Personally, I think she kind of was, but not so much for it not to be believable. I mean, her whole philosophy of life was proven wrong, she found out that what she was doing almost destroyed the world, which is something she didn't want to happen. At this point all that was left for her was to give in.  

 

Those steps seem to be a generalization of how villains are reformed, but there's more to them than that. Starlight and Sunset might have similarities, but they come from totally different backgrounds, have totally different motives, and have different personalities.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Fawkes The Phoenix

[Concerned Bystander 2,903]

 

 

  On 2016-03-27 at 2:35 PM, Fawkes The Phoenix said:

Put Discord there as well, he has gone through the same steps.

 

Discord at least retained his personality after his reformation, he still had his mischievous nature, and in some instances was still bordering on malevolent.

 

  On 2016-03-27 at 2:35 PM, Fawkes The Phoenix said:

Those steps seem to be a generalization of how villains are reformed, but there's more to them than that.

 

The steps are a generalisation, and not intended to be taken entirely literally, just there to prompt a discussion.  That being said, I maintain that those points have validity.

 

  On 2016-03-27 at 2:35 PM, Fawkes The Phoenix said:

Starlight and Sunset might have similarities, but they come from totally different backgrounds, have totally different motives, and have different personalities.

 

As villains, I would totally agree that they had different motives and personalities, and now reformed, of course they have different backgrounds.  But now, post reformation, I really can't draw a line between their personalities at all, you could swap over entire paragraphs of their dialogue from 'The Crystalling' and 'Rainbow Rocks' without either of them seeming suddenly out of character.

 

If it wasn't already apparent that there is no place in Equestria for Sunset any more, then I think Starlight's new personality is pretty much the final nail in that particular coffin.  I honestly don't think either of them stand out enough from the other to be convincing in the same cartoon.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Concerned Bystander

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,815]

Sadly, yes. Starlight is also like Sunset in the way that her current personality is very likable, but the transition was rushed and makes no sense. Its gonna take a while for me to completely forget about what Starlight did. Technically what Starlight did was far worse than what Sunset did

[EmeraldSkies 93]

Yes and no.

 

She is on the same redemption path that Sunset is on, but both will end up at different places. She is the Sunset from Rainbow Rocks, but won't end up as the Sunset from Friendship Games. (Basically she will never be in the group leader, role switcher, #1 position that Sunny is in now. She will never be the main character).

[Overlord0909 479]

I have to agree with you for the most part, and everyone else has made valid points as well. Really though, we can't generalize characters based on a few aspects in their current respects. Starlight and Sunset may have quite a few similarities and both may have transitioned very quickly with really no great explanation... But there was some time lapse in the last episode of season 5 which makes me think there might be some difference in opinion to that statement...

 

Point I was going to make, is that as long as the two still have differences that viewers can tell without even having to see them, then the similarities aren't too important. There's lots of people who act the same in a lot of ways, but the mention is scarcely cared about or mentioned. Starlight is still Starlight, and Sunset is still Sunset.

 

That's all I really got to say on the matter, without saying anything that hasn't already been said...

[Sazama Ichida 2,367]

Yeah I would say it's pretty obvious that Sunset Shimmer was non-canon and that Starlight Glimmer is her replacement...It's sad too. Sunset was a great character. She didn't need to be replaced and shouldn't have been.

[Sals 56]

She is merely a Sunset clone. She isn't really going to do much for the ponies. She doesn't even have her own throne in the castle. Unless she took Spike's

[Northern_Nightmare 1]

The are very similar

I can see the 'element of forgiveness' theme in both of them.

But I have to agree that Starlight is the shows version of Sunset

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

She's basically Sunset for FIM because the show staff know they can't pull sunset shimmer into the pony world from Equestria girls but want to try and snag her fanbase for Pony sales.

[Varrack 1,080]

Starlight wanted equality and for everyone to be equally powerful and significant. Sunset did NOT want equality, rather she desired power all to herself and for everyone to be enslaved toward her.

 

Starlight sought revenge over Twilight ruining her "utopia" of a town. Sunset did not seek revenge after being defeated the first time, but rather learned quicker than Starlight did.

 

Starlight was never brainwashed by a Deus Ex rainbow beam like Sunset was, rather she herself had to choose to stop antagonizing Twilight and Spike or else she would've spent the rest of eternity seeking revenge. Sunset was practically forced into turning good after losing all her strength and power.

 

There are a few similarities, but they are very much different.

[AtomicStone 724]

Yeah, they are both very similar. The mistakes that they have both made and the way that they both magically just reformed.. I dunno though, there is something that I like about starlight glimmer more than Sunset for some reason.. Still trying to figure out what it is.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

One thing that Starlight has going against her: her color scheme sucks for selling toys.
At least sunset had colors that harmonized well.

[Concerned Bystander 2,903]

  On 2016-03-27 at 10:07 PM, Varrack said:

Starlight wanted equality and for everyone to be equally powerful and significant. Sunset did NOT want equality, rather she desired power all to herself and for everyone to be enslaved toward her.

 

Starlight sought revenge over Twilight ruining her "utopia" of a town. Sunset did not seek revenge after being defeated the first time, but rather learned quicker than Starlight did.

 

Starlight was never brainwashed by a Deus Ex rainbow beam like Sunset was, rather she herself had to choose to stop antagonizing Twilight and Spike or else she would've spent the rest of eternity seeking revenge. Sunset was practically forced into turning good after losing all her strength and power.

 

There are a few similarities, but they are very much different.

 

I agree entirely that they were totally different pre-reformation, I'm not disputing that at all.  It's purely since she was reformed that I feel Starlight has been poured into a Sunset shaped mould.

[Jeric 46,861]

  On 2016-03-27 at 2:21 PM, Concerned Bystander said:

What is the difference between Starlight Glimmer and Sunset Shimmer?

 

Trick question! There is *no* difference at all! They have (figuratively) literally turned Starlight into exactly the same character, albeit with a different design.

 

1. Tried to destroy the world? Check

2. Blink and you'll miss it reformation? Check

3. Less guilt than she should really have, given the consequences of her actions? Check

4. Sudden and inexplicable complete change of personality from confident and domineering to docile and demure? Check

 

I'm sure I won't have been the only one to draw this parallel, so what does everybody else think?

 

Has Starlight Glimmer now become Equestria's very own Sunset Shimmer? Or do they both stand out to you as being unique individuals?

 

Before anyone mentions their design, yes, it's clearly axiomatic that they both look different, so let's just take that as read and leave it out of the discussion.

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

 

There is a huge difference, and the flaw in your analysis is in the character motivations and resolution of each of the subjects of you contrast/contrast.

 

I would suggest you review the characters more completely to improve the integrity of your thesis.

 

  On 2016-03-27 at 7:14 PM, Asbel Lhant said:

Yeah I would say it's pretty obvious that Sunset Shimmer was non-canon and that Starlight Glimmer is her replacement...It's sad too. Sunset was a great character. She didn't need to be replaced and shouldn't have been.

The Season Five finale is connected to Friendship Games, so Sunset is still a canonical character.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Jeric
revision due to quoting wrong member

[Concerned Bystander 2,903]

 

 

  On 2016-03-27 at 10:50 PM, Jeric said:

There is a huge difference, and the flaw in your analysis is in the character motivations and resolution of each of the subjects of you contrast/contrast. I would suggest you review the characters more completely to improve the intregity of your thesis.

 

I'm not attempting to make any sort of detailed analysis here, this is simply my opinion based on having watched the season six opener, and quite frankly evey time she was on screen I was having flashbacks to Rainbow Rocks.

 

 

 

  On 2016-03-27 at 10:50 PM, Jeric said:

The Season Five finale is connected to Friendship Games, so Sunset is still a canonical character.

 

That link only goes one way, from FiM to EQG, not the other way around, there has still not been a single mention of the events of any of the EQG films within the FiM universe.

[Jeric 46,861]

 

 

  On 2016-03-27 at 10:54 PM, Concerned Bystander said:

I'm not attempting to make any sort of detailed analysis here, this is simply my opinion based on having watched the season six opener, and quite frankly evey time she was on screen I was having flashbacks to Rainbow Rocks.

 

 

There are definitely similarities, but the motivations of the characters during their antagonism ultimately makes one significant different than the other. At this juncture, one would need to wait and see exactly how Starlight proceeds to see if post reformation Starlight and Sunset are that close. 

 

 

 

  On 2016-03-27 at 10:54 PM, Concerned Bystander said:

That link only goes one way, from FiM to EQG, not the other way around, there has still not been a single mention of the events of any of the EQG films within the FiM universe.

 

Can you explain how a lack of narrative reciprocity invalidates canonicity?  

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Really though, given starlight and sunset's similarity, plus Haber being at the helm, I have a sinking feeling I know what's going to happen in the finale.

[Concerned Bystander 2,903]

  On 2016-03-27 at 11:02 PM, Jeric said:

Can you explain how a lack of narrative reciprocity invalidates canonicity?

 

It doesn't necessarily, but as long as the reciprocity is not there, then FiM has the option of denying the existence of the other media.  It's all very well for a writer to make a statement on twatter saying that it is canon, but if they don't actually commit to that statement by referencing the other media in the cartoon then such statements are devoid of weight due to the fact that it can be retracted with zero impact.

 

Additionally, there is the problem of contradiction by omission, although not as severe as a direct contradiction, it still stands against the argument for canonicity.  For example, given the similarity of Sunset and Starlight's current situations, the fact that Twilight has not mentioned Sunset to Starlight could be viewed as a contradiction by omission.  Of course the argument can be made that such a discussion simply happened off-screen but it does demonstrate the desire of the writers to intentionally omit references to EQG, even where it would have made sense for such references to be made.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Concerned Bystander

[Music Chart Fan 819]

I can think of at least a couple of other significant differences between Sunset Shimmer and Starlight Glimmer, even post-reformation.

 

For one, Sunset Shimmer and Starlight Glimmer differ in the extent to which they've had to deal with their past evil actions. Most of Canterlot High saw Sunset Shimmer in demon form and knew what she tried to do. And because of that, Sunset would have had to work with and confront others at school who knew about her attempted evil deeds and shunned her for them. In that environment, Sunset would have had to learn to show regret for what she did and make up for it to most everyone at Canterlot High. By contrast, almost no one other than the Mane Six, Spike, and her villagers (who seem to be living isolated from the rest of Equestria) know who Starlight Glimmer is and what her past evil deeds were. Starlight could get by day-to-day without others shunning her or knowing what she did, unless she chooses to tell them. As a result, it might be harder to see to what extent Starlight regrets her past actions, and it might be harder to believe that Starlight has made up for them.

 

Also, while both Sunset Shimmer and Starlight Glimmer tried to execute evil plans which would have affected all of Equestria, the long-term consequences of their failed plans differ. Sunset's evil plan was basically stopped a few minutes after she started trying to put it into motion. Once the school building/grounds were repaired, it's likely that there was relatively little lasting damage. The students/faculty at Canterlot High saw her in demon form, and were temporarily possessed for a few minutes, but that's about the extent of it. Obviously that doesn't excuse the immorality of her attempted plan, but Sunset might have less guilt because of the small amount of long-term damage. On the other hand, while Starlight Glimmer's plot to alter the history of Equestria was stopped without lasting damage, Starlight was responsible for brainwashing, removing the cutie marks from, and compelling at least tens of ponies to live in her village for an extended period of time. It seems more likely that the ponies from Starlight's village will carry mental/emotional scars for a long time after that. So Starlight arguably is more guilty of having more long-term damage as a result of her past actions.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Sunset has an Ex-boyfriend that everyone hates.
Starlight has an ex-boyfriend that people like.

DIFFERENCES!

[KatonRyu 1,033]

She seems to have taken Sunset's post-reform position in that both she and Sunset are essentially Twilight's students now. Given that the EQG movies don't really need pony Twilight anymore now that they have SciTwi, I guess the rift between those universes will get even bigger from now on.

 

Still, given their similarities I'd at least like it if Twilight even mentioned Sunset to Starlight, but that clearly isn't going to happen.

[weesh 690]

We know what they were like pre-transition, and we know what sunset is like post-transition, but Starlight is still in a state of confusion and shock.

There is plenty of room for her to blossom into a unique character as she regains her confidence.  

 

it is too soon to tell.  

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

I've seen some posts (accurately) pointing out that pre-reformation Starlight and Sunset were as different as night and day. This is true, but Starlight and Sunset both became extremely different from their orignal selves after joining team good-guy, and I don't think it's a stretch to say that they're quite similar in their current states. This is likely intentional. I'd guess Starlight's introduction, reformation and addition to the main cast was a response to how well-received Sunny was.

 

That said, it might just be too early to judge. It took Sunset until Friendship Games to reveal that she still has a prickly side that comes out under the right circumstances. Perhaps we'll see more of Starlight 1.0's characteristics in future episodes. I certainly hope we will.

 

--------

 

Music Chart Fan made an excellent point about how Sunset had to earn her forgiveness, where Starlight was let off the hook in the blink of an eye. This is true, though it's more of a difference in how the characters are treated by others than a difference in the characters themselves.

[cmarston1 5,959]

With the role Starlight has post-reformation I would say that she certainly has become the FIM version of Sunset Shimmer.

Minus the whole actually having to earn forgiveness and acceptance form those that she has wronged in the past.