spoiler How Nyx is NOT a Mary Sue

[Nyx-Lover 1]

Warning; there is a spoiler for past sins in this, even though you know it two chapters in. If you haven't read, turn away.

 

We good?

 

What the hell is wrong with you guys? In what universe is Nyx a Mary Sue?  Oh, you say, waving your hands around, just look at her. Well then, be prepared, because I'm about to rip you guys a new one!

 

Ahem. I have always been a big fan of Past Sins. It's well written, everypony is in character, nothing is too fast paced, and yet, the best thing about all of this is Nyx, nightmare moon brought back.

 

So, imagine my shock when I find that many, if not all the fandom,consider her to be a Mary Sue.

 

After spending an hour ranting about this to my friend, who clearly thought I was insane, talking about magical ponies, I decided to do some research on Mary Sue's to prove she cannot possibly be one.

 

Lets go (info found of tv tropes and how to;

 

 

•  

The personality of a Mary Sue - if she has one - is not nearly as important as how other characters react to it. No matter how shy or socially awkward Mary Sue is supposed to be, other characters will be drawn to her and inexplicably prefer her company over that of anyone else, all of her ideas are brilliant, all of her jokes are funny, all of her advice is an amazing breakthrough, people will trust her immediately, or very quickly, and feel more comfortable talking to her than to anyone else (even their own family or their significant other) even if she hasn't done or said anything to make them feel that way about her. 

Okay,yes there's Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon, but before she became evil, Celestia was nervous of her, as were the townponies after the tug of war thing, and after many ponies who we like became wary of her. Heck,even Twilight and Spike were scared of her at first.

 

If another character doesn't feel this way about Mary Sue, it's usually to portray them as either bad or just an idiot.

Again, above

 Mary Sue doesn't have to actually do anything to be considered a good person, she just is good and by extension anything she does is good and even when she does nothing she brings more good into the world simply by existing than any other character ever could. Goodness just seems to seep out of her body like radiation.

Nope, sure she has hesitations, but she still blocks out the sun, attacks Celestia and Luna AND threw the CMC in jail.

Highly Persuasive, regardless of the actual content of their conversations. Everyone finds her opinions are just better than their own - even when they're usually stubborn bastards.

Remember how she couldn't convince Twilight to let her go to the play?

Friend to All Living Things 

The cake twins are scared of her. Ponies want to kill her.

She loves everyone and forgives them all for their imperfections, plus she is willing to save, protect or risk all for the sake of someone she has met just seconds ago.

Is either brave and cheerful (despite her past— not unheard of in real life, but with Sues it tends to come across as Angst? What Angst?), or unnecessarily mopey and depressed.

That first part, she herself admitted it was mostly trying to make up to them. And she hasn't had a really angsty past,Nightmare Moon did. She's NOT Nightmare Moon. And she's not cheerful

Incorruptible. In fact, unaware of the possibility of temptation.

Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

Occasionally a complete asshole, especially when she's supposed to be all of the above. Nobody will call her out on her abrasive, casually abusive behavior. Strong badass characters who would normally rip someone's spleen out for squeezing the toothpaste from the wrong end, are instantly cowed and become meek, spineless Wangst factories as soon as she "puts them in their place."

No, no she was told off MANY times.

Full-on Jerk Sues will routinely be flippant, snide, and rude, yet will be treated as a charmingly sarcastic character. They will flout authority as a matter of course and never suffer the consequences. Even if said authority figure is known for a tough stance on disrespect, they will either gamely ignore the Sue's challenge to their authority, or—worse still—praise her for her "cheekiness" or "boldness."

She's not this

Her "major flaws"  will be stubbornness and a bad temper. These will only ever help her, never hurt her — because she's always right, so whatever cause she dedicates herself to with such stubbornness will be a good cause, and whoever she loses her temper with will deserve it.

Despite later books saying she gains a hot temper and stubbornness, her biggest flaw is her awful shyness and social skills

Sometimes they'll mess her up once so she can learn an important lesson. And then they'll help her for the rest of the story.

No, She learned her lesson then she almost died in the battle against The Everfree, and again against Celestia/Luna

A character who's described as being blunt to the point of rudeness or tactlessness will be praised for being "refreshingly honest" or for "telling it like it is." Only the bad guys or other unsympathetic characters will ever say, "What a bitch."

Rainbow calls her a crybaby, right to her face.

If she has any flaws intentionally written in by the creator, expect them to be  Informed or not really flaws to begin with. Bonus points if they're genuine flaws that would actually be pretty awesome were it not for their drawbacks (e.g. substance abuse, nymphomania, etc.), and of course the drawbacks will never be shown.

She is petrified of meeting new ponies

Clumsiness in the Mary Sue is not seen as a flaw, but a potentially cute character trait. If it is implemented heavily enough into a character to be a flaw, the character devolves into Plucky Comic Relief and if they are the protagonist, the story risks becoming pure slapstick.

She's taking lessons from Rarity. Trust me darling, she's not clumsy

Unjustified  I Just Want to Be Normal: Being super awesome is a curse. Now in a franchise like X-Men, a character can find their awesomeness a curse, but at the very least it's because mutants are feared and their powers can cause them serious problems. The Mary Sue, on the other hand, will claim she wishes she was normal even when there's no actual downside to her powers.

She's basically an X-Filly,being shunned.

 

 

Inexplicable and/or poorly-defined abilities in general, especially if they play no factor in the plot after their introduction (not even as a Required Secondary Power) and are only there to make the character seem even more awesome.

No,no they were nescessary for the end, and she is an alicorn

Regardless of what skill level the canon characters have established, she might just simply be better than them, often in ways that do not make sense. Not to mention that if she isn't already skilled at something, she'll pick it up in a fraction of the time required - if she even needs to learn them at all. She/he may have powers similar to what the other characters have, only with all of the downsides and limitations removed.

Yes, she did defeat Celestia, but she does have limitations. She almost died in the fight of The Everfree

 

A perfect singing voice. Most often shows up in Mary Sue Classic. This died out for a while, but is returning due to the popularity of pop divas. She may also have an extreme proficiency with an musical instrument of her choice. (Bonus Points if said instrument is something that would be highly improbable for her to know how to play, such as a Princess Classic from medieval France who knows how to play the didgeridoo.)

We have yet to hear her sing, but she can't play an instrument, and Sweetie is definately better than her

And if it's a Song Fic, she'll possess the ability to compose her own lyrics and songs. Of course, they're NOT her own lyrics, they've been ripped off the internet by the author.

It's not

She tends to not have normal sex, but the most mind-blowingly divine sex ever, regardless of how experienced she actually is. (She is usually, though not always, explicitly a virgin.) And her lover is often a Draco in Leather Pantsquickly Heel Face Turned by her vagina.

Um . .  .. 

Speaks several languages fluently. This can vary depending on the setting, of course. A modern-day diplomat is expected to know at least one or two other languages, but a 14-year-old peasant girl in Medieval Europe shouldn't speak Japanese and Hindi fluently. It's much worse if it includes animals. Bonus points if an alien lands in her backyard and she can communicate instantly (provided it doesn't speak the language already).

She may be able to speak Batpony and possibly old Equestrian, but that's because of her past

The most common second languages are probably Romance languages (because they sound awesome), Japanese (for the otaku) and Lakota (many Suesnote  are of American Indian admixture, but never more than half).

Not in this universe

Skilled in a type of martial arts in a setting or with a backstory that doesn't allow for it. Not regularly skilled either; she could kick the ass of the resident ninja of her choice.

She just uses her magic to fight, not that she can now

Just random magical powers, such as telepathy in a universe where it's never even been mentioned.

No

Absurd natural athletic ability - she can run like the wind without ever having worked on her running, and has impossibly high acrobatic skills.

She may have Earth Pony Powers, but she hasn't shown them

And with all this - don't expect the Green-Eyed Monster to show up. Envy appears in the Mary Sue's life only as a means of angst, and so does not appear just because the Mary Sue has everything.

Nyx was jealous of Princess Luna and Celestia for being loved

Alternately, anybody who does get jealous is a bitch and is wrong. This is typically a single other character and may be Die for Our Ship or for other reasons.

This, I'l give to them

Mary Sues always has excellent fashion sense, even if she's meant to be a rough-and-tumble Tomboy type who doesn't care about that sort of thing, she will always look effortlessly beautiful and other characters, often males, will frequently talk about how they like that she isn't as high maintenance as other girls (if she has a female rival they might mention her specifically.)

It's more Rarity than her

All skills and traits unusual for the setting can pretty easily fall into this, since young authors usually forget to portray all consequences of picking a certain trade. For example, a medieval peasant girl will have no problems becoming a respected genius scholar.

 

No, these are all usual for this setting.

 

 

 

So Beautiful, It's a Curse™. While being attractive isn't a qualifier of Mary Sue (who wants to be ugly?), it's a bit excessive to try and play it as being some sort of disadvantage. Alternatively she may only be Suetiful All Along. In an Anti-Sue, this is reversed into a hideous monster. Regardless, her astounding beauty (or astounding lack of it) will make her stand out from the crowd - or so we're constantly being told.

She's an alicorn because SHE'S NIGHTMARE-BUCKIN-MOON, and because of Nightmares design, she was given cat eyes. But she wears normal things to hide them, so she blends in.

Unusual hair relative to canon is another common characteristic of Mary Sue. Alternatively, these features may be amazing in other ways - shining and shimmering eyes, or Anime Hair in non-Anime fandoms. Rapunzel Hair is also common.

Her hair is actually very plain.

Note that White Hair isn't really considered all that unusual in anime-based fiction. It only becomes Sue-ish if it makes her special.

More important than colour is highlights. Of course hair dye is nothing special, but somehow Sue's streaks are not only a colour completely different from the base, but also natural. Nature allows some leeway here - blonds with dark roots aren't unheard of, but that's not what Sues are after. Similarly, these "natural" highlights are often a color such as blue, pink, purple or any other color that doesn't occur naturally in hair outside anime.

No white and no highlights

Kaleidoscope Eyes: Seeing it in text is practically an instant Mary Sue qualifier.

Mismatched Eyes or heterochromia, are a common alternate choice.

No,she's good

If the setting is at least semi-realistic and she isn't Caucasian, expect her to have eyes that aren't brown. Blue, green, and grey are popular choices (not counting unnatural ones like violet, gold, or cat/lizardlike), even though 90% of the world's population has boring brown eyes.

Also expect those eyes to be described in overly poetic or specific terms ("celery green," "cerulean," "slate-grey"). Expect these adjectives to be repeated more than once.

A very easy way to identify a Mary Sue is by looking at beauty magazines, note all physical attributes praised in them and look at a fanfic at the time of the beauty magazine's release to notice that all of those attributes praised in those magazines are part of the character, but taken Up to Eleven. If height and weight figures are given, expect it thus to violate physics (unless she's made of Styrofoam or something).

Yes, she has cat eyes, but,once again, her design had to be based off Nightmare Moon.

Mary Sues tend to be drastically underweight, and their authors may attempt to even instill Angst, claiming that their character is extremely overweight (or at least believes herself to be) and even abused by other characters for their weight.

Nah, we're good. I haven't seen any pictures of her, but it was never brought up

This particular trait is magnified if her role in the story has her doing things that would require a lot of upper body strength and therefore bulk, such as wielding a sword or fighting hand-to-hand. It's magnified even more if there are other female canon characters with similar roles who are built more like female mixed martial arts fighters. Having one lone waifish and delicate young girl in that group because the author thinks muscular women are gross-looking and to have that lone waif fight just as well or better than someone with more muscle mass despite her physical limitations is a bog standard Mary Sue trait.

Not a guard, despite what her cutie mark is. Too young

Mary Sue is also never depicted as putting too much effort into maintaining her body; she may get an Adrenaline Make Over, but she never has to diet or exercise (she may exercise for other reasons, but never just to maintain a certain weight or to look a certain way) or use any cosmetic products, she just naturally looks (the author's idea of) perfect and usually doesn't understand why everyone is so impressed by her effortlessly flawless appearance. Most real-life models—male and female—spend hours a day working out and maintaining their physique because being beautiful is literally their job.

She's a filly. She should wait a couple more years first

No matter how thin the character is in other areas, however, there will be one area in which she is more than amply endowed. Authors with some interest in actual biology should note that women who are mistaken for anorexic are rarely G-cups.

No matter what she's been through, Mary Sue will never look ugly. The worst she'll ever be reduced to is Unkempt Beauty, and even if she is somehow injured and scarred or handicapped, the scar will always be a cool-looking, Bond villain-type scar that serves as more of a decoration than anything else. Plus, when she overcomes the handicap, she will be just as amazing as she was before getting injured (or better).

Ponies outright say she looks creepy and weird

Likewise, if Mary Sue has a birthmark, it will be in a significant shape (heart, half moon, etc.) and never in a place that compromises her beauty. Expect the Mary Sue to consider the birthmark to make her unattractive. This will be despite the fact that other characters insist that the birthmark makes her more attractive, especially in comparison to physically flawless characters.

She'll often wear revealing outfits with tons of gems, fishnets, Frills of Justice, and other extraneous details, even if it may be difficult or impossible to find such an outfit in her world (or be well outside of her realistic price bracket). Such flashy outfits will likely be just too impractical to wear in Real Life. Even if the rest of the cast wears uniform.

No to both of those

Purple seems to be popular. After all, Graceful Ladies Like Purple, Purple Is Powerful and Supernatural Is Purple. This applies especially when the canon characters are a Five-Man Band color-coded with red, yellow, green, blue and white/silver/black/pink. Gold is about the second most popular.

Her color is more blue or dark navy or black.

Descriptions of her looks are usually overly-detailed and distinctly violet-hued. Because saying she's slim with long black hair and blue eyes only tells you what she looks like. Saying she's a delicate, willowy goddess with flowing tresses that shimmer onyx like the feathers of a raven and sparkling cerulean orbs that shine like the ocean and radiate with femininity tells you she's special. Likewise she will describe her clothing in pretentious Purple Prose. Sometmes she'll do it with every outfit she wears.

Most descriptions we got are 'a black alicorn filly with no cutie mark and cat eyes.'

If they are some sort of animal or generally nonhuman species, they may have strange and unnatural fur colours - even outside of the aforementioned purple. Also expect colour combinations that clash horrifically (especially in text where thought won't have been put into how they actually look).

Rainbow colored manes, Pink pastel fur,Griffins

There's also a tendency to give animals humanlike hair and Non Mammalian Mammaries.

In many cases, she'll possess some animal-like physical trait, such as wings, cat ears, or a tail, but otherwise appears human, in a world were such traits are rare or nonexistent. Bonus points if she believes this makes her look ugly even when all the other characters tell her the exact opposite

Well yes, she is a horse

Obscenely long eyelashes. Appears on Sues of both genders.

Not really

Their skin color either the same as the author's or what the author views as the prettiest/ideal skin color. Because of this, Mary Sues are usually white (and often a pale shade of white,) but darker-skinned Sues are not unheard of (see the section on ethnicity below.)

A Villain Sue may have physical flaws, but a "good" Sue never will. Especially so if she happens to be a Purity Sueand/or a Relationship Sue.

SHE HAS CAT EYES

 

SO, THERE YOU GO, NOT A MARY SUE. I rest my case. XPICKS NYX UP AND CARRIES HER WITH MEX

 

p.s sorry if some words are blue

[Hazard Time 1,127]

Despite you spelling it out in great detail here, you haven't changed my mind.  Keep in mind that with how one could come up with a myriad of definitions of what qualifies as a Mary Sue, I'll give my interpretation that you can take as you will.

 

 

 

Okay,yes there's Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon, but before she became evil, Celestia was nervous of her, as were the townponies after the tug of war thing, and after many ponies who we like became wary of her. Heck,even Twilight and Spike were scared of her at first.

 

One quality of a Mary Sue is that the other characters in the story greatly respect the main character.  Respect doesn't have to be adoration, however, and can be fear or trepidation.  This isn't too great a sin, though, as it's simply an element to drive the plot.  Celestia wouldn't have done anything if she didn't have reason to fear Nyx, right?

 

On top of that, DT and SS might be the lowest hanging fruit in terms of "irredeemable enemies who hate the MC because she's more popular than them", Celestia was no better.  When you really think about it, does it make sense that a being that has a ruled a nation for centuries would make such a terrible mistake as to jump into affairs that she knows for a fact that someone else would be able to handle much more efficiently than she could?  It just seems so uncharacteristic of her that she'd jump to conclusions so fast.

 

 

 

Nope, sure she has hesitations, but she still blocks out the sun, attacks Celestia and Luna AND threw the CMC in jail.

 

The thing about this, and why most people consider her a Mary Sue, is that she does all the evil things (Locks the princesses away, banishes the sun, takes over Equestria, etc), and yet somehow is still good.  Her character development is incredibly screwed up and the author is trying so hard to keep her sympathetic and yet make it seem like she's doing this against her will.  The thing is that nopony is forcing her to do these things, and for all intents and purposes, she's still Nyx.  If she was so sympathetic towards the other ponies, then why did she do all of this in the first place?  Why didn't she refuse to do everything that her cult told her to?

 

 

 

Yes, she did defeat Celestia, but she does have limitations. She almost died in the fight of The Everfree

 

That entire scene was so forced.  She defeated Celestia and Luna one after the other, but then a giant timberwolf comes her way and she nearly kills herself just scaring it off.  The scene after that where she's limping up the castle steps is just as forced.  The author wants us so bad to feel sympathy for her and disgust at the ponies who look down on her, but really, how do you expect ponies to readily forgive someone who overthrew their beloved princesses and began oppressing them?  It simply wasn't natural.

 

 

 

Despite later books saying she gains a hot temper and stubbornness, her biggest flaw is her awful shyness and social skills

 

And this comes into play how?  A flaw isn't just an accessory, it is something that holds the character back from accomplishing their goals and gives the other characters a reason to dislike them.  This is not a flaw as it comes off as endearing and makes her even more likable.

[Nyx-Lover 1]

I know I can't change your opinion, but I would like to point some things out

 

 

 

One quality of a Mary Sue is that the other characters in the story greatly respect the main character.  Respect doesn't have to be adoration, however, and can be fear or trepidation.  This isn't too great a sin, though, as it's simply an element to drive the plot.  Celestia wouldn't have done anything if she didn't have reason to fear Nyx, right?

  

 

By that logic, all of the mane six are Mary Sues, because all of their villians respected them

 

The thing about this, and why most people consider her a Mary Sue, is that she does all the evil things (Locks the princesses away, banishes the sun, takes over Equestria, etc), and yet somehow is still good.  Her character development is incredibly screwed up and the author is trying so hard to keep her sympathetic and yet make it seem like she's doing this against her will.  The thing is that nopony is forcing her to do these things, and for all intents and purposes, she's still Nyx.  If she was so sympathetic towards the other ponies, then why did she do all of this in the first place?  Why didn't she refuse to do everything that her cult told her to?

 

 

Because, in her lizard eyes, her mother abandoned her, and when she got her memories back, she truly believed that this was her destiny. Why wouldn't she? It makes a lot of sense if you think about it

 

 

 

That entire scene was so forced.  She defeated Celestia and Luna one after the other, but then a giant timberwolf comes her way and she nearly kills herself just scaring it off.  The scene after that where she's limping up the castle steps is just as forced.  The author wants us so bad to feel sympathy for her and disgust at the ponies who look down on her, but really, how do you expect ponies to readily forgive someone who overthrew their beloved princesses and began oppressing them?  It simply wasn't natural

 

 

The story admitted that taking out TWO GODS worn her out a bit, so this isn't entirely illogical. And, no, she knows full well what she's doing, and you do get to see through DIAMOND TIARA'S EYES why she hates Nyx so much

 

 

 

And this comes into play how?  A flaw isn't just an accessory, it is something that holds the character back from accomplishing their goals and gives the other characters a reason to dislike them.  This is not a flaw as it comes off as endearing and makes her even more likable

 

In Nightmare or Nyx, we get to see just how flawed she is. She isn't just hot tempered, she's short tempered, which isn't that common in Mary Sue's, as for the making friends thing, that means she'll find it hard to stick up for herself, unless aforementioned short temper apply, in which case, she will not be portrayed as nice and sweet. 

 

This could also mean fear of large crowds, talking in front of ponies (shudder) and, as we see in later books, she actually struggles, not because of some inner angst, but because nopony wil give her a chance.

 

I can't change your mind, but I can defend my favorite character, next to Sweetie and Pinkie

Despite you spelling it out in great detail here, you haven't changed my mind.  Keep in mind that with how one could come up with a myriad of definitions of what qualifies as a Mary Sue, I'll give my interpretation that you can take as you will.

 

 

 

 

One quality of a Mary Sue is that the other characters in the story greatly respect the main character.  Respect doesn't have to be adoration, however, and can be fear or trepidation.  This isn't too great a sin, though, as it's simply an element to drive the plot.  Celestia wouldn't have done anything if she didn't have reason to fear Nyx, right?

 

On top of that, DT and SS might be the lowest hanging fruit in terms of "irredeemable enemies who hate the MC because she's more popular than them", Celestia was no better.  When you really think about it, does it make sense that a being that has a ruled a nation for centuries would make such a terrible mistake as to jump into affairs that she knows for a fact that someone else would be able to handle much more efficiently than she could?  It just seems so uncharacteristic of her that she'd jump to conclusions so fast.

 

 

 

 

The thing about this, and why most people consider her a Mary Sue, is that she does all the evil things (Locks the princesses away, banishes the sun, takes over Equestria, etc), and yet somehow is still good.  Her character development is incredibly screwed up and the author is trying so hard to keep her sympathetic and yet make it seem like she's doing this against her will.  The thing is that nopony is forcing her to do these things, and for all intents and purposes, she's still Nyx.  If she was so sympathetic towards the other ponies, then why did she do all of this in the first place?  Why didn't she refuse to do everything that her cult told her to?

 

 

 

 

That entire scene was so forced.  She defeated Celestia and Luna one after the other, but then a giant timberwolf comes her way and she nearly kills herself just scaring it off.  The scene after that where she's limping up the castle steps is just as forced.  The author wants us so bad to feel sympathy for her and disgust at the ponies who look down on her, but really, how do you expect ponies to readily forgive someone who overthrew their beloved princesses and began oppressing them?  It simply wasn't natural.

 

 

 

 

And this comes into play how?  A flaw isn't just an accessory, it is something that holds the character back from accomplishing their goals and gives the other characters a reason to dislike them.  This is not a flaw as it comes off as endearing and makes her even more likable.

 Oh, and for the whole why didn't she just refuse the cult? She raised the sun, spared Scootaloo, Apple Bloom and Sweetie Belle from execution, as well as Twilight AND  The Mane 6, despite their wishes.

[Hazard Time 1,127]

By that logic, all of the mane six are Mary Sues, because all of their villians respected them

 

Simply sharing a single trait with an archetype does not make a character that archetype, and if this was the only trait that Nyx shared with the general Mary Sue, then I wouldn't be debating this with you.

 

Because, in her lizard eyes, her mother abandoned her, and when she got her memories back, she truly believed that this was her destiny. Why wouldn't she? It makes a lot of sense if you think about it

 

If your "destiny" involved betraying all of the morals that your family had instilled in you, would you still do it?  Did Nyx have a right to be angry at Twilight and Celestia?  Yes, but doing something that so blatantly flies in the face of common morality requires extreme justification, and for a shy, kind-hearted schoolfilly to suddenly become a power-hungry moon god requires a bit more justification than "I have mommy issues".

 

I will admit that it has been over a year since I read the fic, but with as dead as this beaten horse is, it's a moot discussion.  You're free to continue celebrating Nyx as one of your favorite OCs and no one will try and take her away from you, but you're not going to have much luck convincing others that she isn't a Mary Sue.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Hazard Time

[Lil Pip 775]

By that logic, all of the mane six are Mary Sues, because all of their villians respected them

Just to butt in and be technical, Discord underestimated them. Trixie doesn't respect them(depends how you define villain). But yeah I mean the show has deus ex machinas and stuff. But idk anything about Nyx here so thats all Imma say lol. 

[EmeraldStar04 250]

Someone doesn't have to be a 100% sue to be a Sue, just a 100% Sue.

 

That said, the whole "Everything revolves around her!" argument is dumb, since she's the story's protag.

Also, Celestia was moron-ified in this story because of Nyx's sueness. There's a difference between being willing to shoot a dying dog and wanting to shoot your neighbour's dog because it looks evil.

[SBaby 660]

Someone doesn't have to be a 100% sue to be a Sue, just a 100% Sue.

 

That said, the whole "Everything revolves around her!" argument is dumb, since she's the story's protag.

Also, Celestia was moron-ified in this story because of Nyx's sueness. There's a difference between being willing to shoot a dying dog and wanting to shoot your neighbour's dog because it looks evil.

 

Actually, the show itself moron-ified Celestia on at least three separate occasions that I know of (one of which almost resulted in a full-scale invasion of Equestria).  So her not being the brightest bulb in the bunch in this fanfic is really not too different from what's normally going on in canon.  As such, it's a pretty weak argument.

 

As for Nyx herself.  I'm sorry, but I instantly distrust anyone that uses the term 'Mary Sue' when they criticize writing.  Few times is the term used correctly, and from a writing perspective, it really doesn't accomplish much to throw that term around all the time.  It's almost an escape that people use to avoid having to explain their opinion of a piece of writing.  The problem is nothing gets done, nothing gets explained, and writing doesn't improve when the term is thrown around like candy all the time.

 

However while I will say that I've only skimmed the story and haven't read the whole thing, I've read enough about Nyx to know who she is and what she is, and I can safely say that I've seen far worse in fan characters.  Especially one that was created during an earlier stage of the series.  So while I'll say the fanfic is outdated, it's not terrible.

Edited November 20, 2016 by SBaby

[Missklang 1,053]

I think you are right, Nyx is not a Mary Sue. Mary Sue is just a blank uninteresting character who is always oh so perfect and is like the most powerful, and can't be killed and yadda yadda. Nyx, she has personality, defaults, weaknesses. In NO way she is a mary sue. It's like calling Discord a Mary Sue, or Loki, or Harry Potter. Especially Harry. He can't be killed, he is always right, always wins and stuff. Is Batman a Mary Sue? Nope. Superman... well....um.... let's not talk about him. But then, can you consider Alucard from Hellsing Ultimate or Sebastian Michaelis from Black Butler Mary Sues? No. They ar OP, it's true. But They have an interesting personality, a story...  Moral: being overpowered doesn't make you a Mary Sue

 

P.S: I have cat eyes. Does it mean I'm a Mary Sue? -is afraid-

Edited November 20, 2016 by Missklang

[Gamer_KM 90]

I agaree that nyx is not a mary sue, while she does fall flat on somethings. Writing a truly OC that is well balanced in the world can be hard, Trust me, I tried to a few times. But her character has been well flushed out and pen stroke does a good job giving the plot some rest between conflicts.

 

Some samples of "mary" sue I have for my stories.

 

Gizmo Tinker, Avatar of Discord, Rasied orphaned in manehatten tell his mother turns up in his mid teens. Despite having the ability to quite literally brake reality, he hates to use it and wears power limiters.

 

Gizmo is a gary sue, granted a mildly will thought out one, but still one.

 

Mary sue, yes as part of a joke I named an OC that, This OC has 2 version, a Prototype version, Rasied by changelings, leaning shapeshfting magic from them then planning to over throw the goverment in a heavy anti-alicorn universe. She came off...edgy...among other traits.

Her version 2 incarnation is a bit better, but not much. She is a magic construct built by twi using her, luna, and celestia's magic and the elements as a framework. She hates the role she has been given and wants to fight her destiny. so....yeah...stuff.

[Nyx-Lover 1]

Simply sharing a single trait with an archetype does not make a character that archetype, and if this was the only trait that Nyx shared with the general Mary Sue, then I wouldn't be debating this with you.

 

 

If your "destiny" involved betraying all of the morals that your family had instilled in you, would you still do it?  Did Nyx have a right to be angry at Twilight and Celestia?  Yes, but doing something that so blatantly flies in the face of common morality requires extreme justification, and for a shy, kind-hearted schoolfilly to suddenly become a power-hungry moon god requires a bit more justification than "I have mommy issues".

 

I will admit that it has been over a year since I read the fic, but with as dead as this beaten horse is, it's a moot discussion.  You're free to continue celebrating Nyx as one of your favorite OCs and no one will try and take her away from you, but you're not going to have much luck convincing others that she isn't a Mary Sue.

 

Okay, what about Twilight being able to do all those magic skills? Or Rainbow Dash, equal to an earth pony in strength and speed, and is the fastest flyer in ponyville AND is their best fighter AND has a design that no other character has {Rainbows/ more than three colored mane} AND happens to be the centerfold for how they all got their cutie marks?

 

Well, when you mother teaches you that friends stay by your side . .   . ..  and then gives you up, you may start to doubt said mothers word, and, by rights, morales.

 

Oh, and, you know, she went insane when she got her memory back.

 

I know, but I hope a few will change their minds

[EmeraldStar04 250]

I think you are right, Nyx is not a Mary Sue. Mary Sue is just a blank uninteresting character who is always oh so perfect and is like the most powerful, and can't be killed and yadda yadda. Nyx, she has personality, defaults, weaknesses. In NO way she is a mary sue. It's like calling Discord a Mary Sue, or Loki, or Harry Potter. Especially Harry. He can't be killed, he is always right, always wins and stuff. Is Batman a Mary Sue? Nope. Superman... well....um.... let's not talk about him. But then, can you consider Alucard from Hellsing Ultimate or Sebastian Michaelis from Black Butler Mary Sues? No. They ar OP, it's true. But They have an interesting personality, a story...  Moral: being overpowered doesn't make you a Mary Sue

 

P.S: I have cat eyes. Does it mean I'm a Mary Sue? -is afraid-

STOP SPREADING THAT MEME.

 

Having Sue Traits doesn't make you a Sue. Having TOO MANY Sue Traits doesn't make you a Sue.

 

A Sue is a problem with the writer, NOT the character! See: Rey.

Okay, what about Twilight being able to do all those magic skills? Or Rainbow Dash, equal to an earth pony in strength and speed, and is the fastest flyer in ponyville AND is their best fighter AND has a design that no other character has {Rainbows/ more than three colored mane} AND happens to be the centerfold for how they all got their cutie marks?

 

Well, when you mother teaches you that friends stay by your side . .   . ..  and then gives you up, you may start to doubt said mothers word, and, by rights, morales.

 

Oh, and, you know, she went insane when she got her memory back.

 

I know, but I hope a few will change their minds

Twilight's the embodiment of the element of magic. Rainbow Dash is desiny's chosen one, the creator of the mane six, and Rainbow Dad also has a rainbow mane.

 

And these characters have FLAWS. They get treated with weight. They aren't given the Sue Treatment like Nyx is.

[Nyx-Lover 1]

STOP SPREADING THAT MEME.

 

Having Sue Traits doesn't make you a Sue. Having TOO MANY Sue Traits doesn't make you a Sue.

 

A Sue is a problem with the writer, NOT the character! See: Rey.

Twilight's the embodiment of the element of magic. Rainbow Dash is desiny's chosen one, the creator of the mane six, and Rainbow Dad also has a rainbow mane.

 

And these characters have FLAWS. They get treated with weight. They aren't given the Sue Treatment like Nyx is.

 

Yeah, and Pinkies family are grey. 

 

Seriously? Okay, what's the difference then between Nyx, and Fluttershy and Luna? Nyx and Fluttershy are both shy, awkward, and have a problem making friends, and Nyx and Luna have a problem of trying to move past their mistakes.

 

Yes, Twilight's good at magic, so that makes sense .But Rainbow Dash got hers for racing. Where does that say equal to stronger than an earth pony, best fighter of the group, amazing engineer and can create a tornado on her own, when we saw it taking roughly 48 ponies working together to get it to work?

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,161]

@@Nyx-Lover

 

As this is a discussion on a fan work it has been moved to Sugarcube Corner. Any material in Octavia's Hall is about fan works that you create yourself.

 

Thank you.