Are the MLP villains really bad?

[Nightfall Veilwing 1,138]

Regardless of having the "villain" label, these characters aren't as bad as we think they are.

In older cartoons, the villains were evil for the sake for being evil and nothing else, but villain characters these days have more depth to them, to the point where they're more relatable. I believe these "villains" are more worthy of our sympathy and respect than we're lead to believe. Think about it, why do so-called "evil" people exist? Nopony is born evil, they're driven into doing evil things because of various reasons. Here are some examples:

Princess Luna (aka Nightmare Moon)

The first villain character of the entire series may deserve the most sympathy, considering that she's practically an abuse victim, and by her own sister, no less. What did Luna want in the first place? Since the ponies did their things during the day but didn't do any of that during the night, she felt left out. So, when she refused to lower the Moon, she was telling Celestia that she and her night mattered, too, and she had every right to get angry at her sister. Celestia acts like she's above Luna and pushes her aside, not letting her really have any position of power or authority. Luna became Nightmare Moon when she finally couldn't take Celestia's metal abuse anymore and wanted revenge to get even with her. As an abuse victim myself, I completely understand this mindset. We all wanted revenge at one point or another, it's only natural.

And in the alternate timeline where Nightmare Moon did banish Celestia to the Moon (The Cutie Re-Mark), she's what you'd considered to be "evil." But due to the mental abuse and neglect she suffered, Nightmare Moon is unable to get out of the mental state that drove her to madness in the first place. Nightmare Moon isn't really doing these things because she turned evil, but because she's trying to cope from the abuse and is calling out for help, but abusing and hurting others is the only way she knows how. And her taking over Equestria was her way of regaining the control, the love, and the respect she felt was taking away from her.

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Discord

Our fave draconequus may be the spirit of chaos, but it's obvious that he's pretty lonely. He didn't show this when he first appears in The Return of Harmony, Part 1 & 2, but it's when Fluttershy starts showing him respect and genuine concern does his loneliness show up. Discord is a good example of someone who's been isolated and never had any real friends, like me. Discord wasn't doing those chaotic things because he was a psychopath or antisocial (contrary to the laws and customs of society; devoid of, or antagonistic to, sociable instincts or practices) but because he felt abandoned and desperate for interaction, and the chaos was his way of showing how he felt inside: chaotic, broken, and devoid of balance. But since Fluttershy befriended Discord and gave him what he was missing all of his life, he's finally found peace, balance, and tranquility. Discord now sees Fluttershy as a part of him, and seeing her in trouble or hurt will upset the peace that he's trying to protect, with Flutershy as key for it.

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Starlight Glimmer

As we've seen in The Cutie Re-Mark, and same with Discord, Starlight felt abandoned, by Sunburst, specifically. When Sunburst gotten his Mark and ran off, Starlight saw Cutie Marks as the reason why she lost her friend. Before the events of The Cutie Map, Part 1, she developed the idea that, if Cutie Marks weren't a thing, she wouldn't lose any friends or be abandoned again. However Starlight managed to get the ponies in the unnamed village to (unwillingly or otherwise) see her philosophy, this didn't fill the void in her, but this was her only coping mechanism, a false paradise. Starlight only wanted her friend back, but unable to get him back has caused her to go insane. Starlight may be better now, but she still doesn't have the whole idea of friendship and friendship-problem-solving down yet.

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Queen Chrysalis

Ah, the insect queen (and, admittedly, the sexiest ) pony herself. I believe Chrysalis is the most misunderstood villain character, here. She's just a mother who's looking out for the best interests for herself and her children, the Changelings. How's that a bad thing? Probably how she gets the food for the Changeling swarm. She may not really not interested in manipulating or harming others, but would do so if it guarantees the survival of her swarm. Since the Changelings have a new way of living and lead by Thorax, who knows what Chrysalis will do now...? But I don't think the reformed Changelings will survive for long, unless either Chrysalis comes back and reformed herself or one of the other female Changelings becomes the mate of Thorax and the new queen.

Hey, how does a Changeling feed off of love, anyways? I don't think that ever was ever explained. You can stop eating and survive off your body fat if you have enough of it (I've been doing that for 2 months now, BTW), but love doesn't provide sustenance. IDK where Chryssy is or when we'll see her again, but I'm curious to see what happens to her. Also, who's the one who impregnates Chryssy to make more Changeling offspring?  Too many unknowns about these bug-like ponies, really.

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So, that's how feel about these characters. What do you think? Do you think they're truly villains from the start, or were they driven to be evil as a way to coping with their suffering? 

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by Millennium Shadow

[hollow-shades 129]

To be honest, all MLP villains are redeemable. Although all of them have an evil goal, it all can be explained with their backstories. The only one Im "eeeh" about is Discord. We really don't know anything about him except that he was turned into stone before Season 2. A lot before Season 2. If he really was just born as the spirit of chaos and did all that stuff to live up his name, maybe he really is the only one who was bad from the start. But he got redeemed!

[Nightfall Veilwing 1,138]

Just now, Flinp said:

To be honest, all MLP villains are redeemable.

What I don't like about MLP is that they forgive the villains too often and too easily. It's like, you can kill somepony, and you're automatically forgiven if you submit to the power of friendship.

That's why I like Chrysalis refusing the friendship Starlight offered.

I say, if the villain characters want to redeem themselves, let them do it on their own, instead of having the main characters persuading them to do so.

[Hierok 11,832]

I think the villains of mlp are quite good... I mean bad... Ehm... You know what I mean. 

Chrysalis was indeed a misunderstood villain and mother, but only in season 2. In season 6 she was like a dictator over the sworm. 

[KH7672 1,604]

3 hours ago, Millennium Shadow said:

Queen Chrysalis

 

She's just a mother who's looking out for the best interests for herself and her children, the Changelings. How's that a bad thing?

Looking at the most recent episode I can't say Chrysalis was ruling for the best interests of her children. Changelings seem to transform (and no longer hunger) when they are content with their place in life sharing love and receiving it back. Unless you want to say Chrysalis was naive to the transformation process. I'd have to say she is the most selfish of them all by keeping them from that happiness just so they are desperate enough for food. Still, that doesn't mean evil, just caring more about her superiority over her hive than the happiness of her changelings as starving changelings will do anything for food. Maybe now that she doesn't have that superiority she may be more inclined to see things differently.

1 hour ago, Hierok said:

Chrysalis was indeed a misunderstood villain and mother, but only in season 2. In season 6 she was like a dictator over the sworm. 

"Who says a girl can really have it all?" Yeah, that's not selfish at all

Considering when the changelings invaded Canterlot all we saw them do is trap ponies and not actually feed on them I can't say she wasn't going to be as power hungry as she was in the Season 6 finale.

[TheOneGuy0000 404]

It's safe to say that pretty much every villain in the show is redeemable. All of them have some redeeming qualities, even Chrysalis.

I needn't say anything about Luna, OP explained it perfectly.

Discord just wanted to make chocolate rain. If that's evil, I don't know what evil is. Albeit the reindeer-bunnies were a bit freaky. I don't think loneliness was his main problem, but rather a side effect of the fact that he is the embodiment of chaos, and everyone knows how much ponies love their precious harmony.

Sombra was redeemed in the comics, which I haven't read yet, but I'm sure if he was redeemable there must've been some good in him.

Flim and Flam are just businessmen, and all businessmen are pretty selfish, neglecting their customers for profit and not worrying about demolishing other businesses in the process. Still, they helped out in that one episode in season 6, and now they have a new less-shady-but-not-100-percent-honest gig going for them.

All but Tirek. The guy's just a complete megalomaniac. I mean, he finally gets all magic in Equestria (Which apparently still can't compete with the rainbow nuke. Just how convenient is that darn tree?), and what does he do? He starts kamehameha-ming trees to death. Solid plan dude. They could've killed him in a pg way by blasting him 'till he was a pile of ashes, but instead they just sent him back to Tartarus, the place he escaped from in the first place, pretty much just resetting the timer for their impending doom. Way to go, guys.

[DANUTERCISD 204]

To be honest, discord wasn't even that evil. He's just causes chaos. Princess luna and celestia finally resolve their argument in season 7 episode 10, which i'm glad that they did that. Starlight Glimmer wanted to get rid of cutie marks, because cutie marks lost her friend. the only villian i'm not sure about is chrysalis. I just don't like her much. I don't get why people like her to be honest, but they do them i guess. 

 

[hollow-shades 129]

10 hours ago, Millennium Shadow said:

What I don't like about MLP is that they forgive the villains too often and too easily. It's like, you can kill somepony, and you're automatically forgiven if you submit to the power of friendship.

That's why I like Chrysalis refusing the friendship Starlight offered.

I say, if the villain characters want to redeem themselves, let them do it on their own, instead of having the main characters persuading them to do so.

True. Although all of them are redeemable, they should't all be redeemed. Also, I forgot about Tirek. Although his goals can be explained, hes just...evil. His behavior is obviously a lost cause.

[DANUTERCISD 204]

10 hours ago, Millennium Shadow said:

What I don't like about MLP is that they forgive the villains too often and too easily. It's like, you can kill somepony, and you're automatically forgiven if you submit to the power of friendship.

That's why I like Chrysalis refusing the friendship Starlight offered.

I say, if the villain characters want to redeem themselves, let them do it on their own, instead of having the main characters persuading them to do so.

villians will never redeem themselves, if they don't get the offer.

[Nightfall Veilwing 1,138]

1 hour ago, DANUTERCISD said:

Villains will never redeem themselves if they don't get the offer.

What I'm saying is, the main characters forgive the villains for their misdeeds too easily.

Redeeming at least 1 villain a season is pretty much an MLP cliché by now.

Not every villain needs to be redeemed the same episode they appeared in. The way friendship is being done the show makes it seem like it's more like a form of indoctrination and a way for the villains to be controlled. I'm just sayin'!

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

13 hours ago, Millennium Shadow said:

The first villain character of the entire series may deserve the most sympathy, considering that she's practically an abuse victim, and by her own sister, no less. What did Luna want in the first place? Since the ponies did their things during the day but didn't do any of that during the night, she felt left out. So, when she refused to lower the Moon, she was telling Celestia that she and her night mattered, too, and she had every right to get angry at her sister. Celestia acts like she's above Luna and pushes her aside, not letting her really have any position of power or authority. Luna became Nightmare Moon when she finally couldn't take Celestia's metal abuse anymore and wanted revenge to get even with her.

I couldn't disagree further. I view Luna as little more than a spoiled child. She didn't get the attention she wanted so she decided to mess with the natural order of things. Refusing to lower the moon wasn't Lunas way of making statement, she was simply throwing a fit. And it's not like Luna didn't have any political power or authority. She was the co-ruler of Equestria for heavens sake. 

Also, why did she have every right to be mad at Celestia? It's not her fault that ponies sleep during the night.

[DANUTERCISD 204]

40 minutes ago, Millennium Shadow said:

What I'm saying is, the main characters forgive the villains for their misdeeds too easily.

Redeeming at least 1 villain a season is pretty much an MLP cliché by now.

Not every villain needs to be redeemed the same episode they appeared in. The way friendship is being done the show makes it seem like it's more like a form of indoctrination and a way for the villains to be controlled. I'm just sayin'!

oh okay, that makes more sense.

 

16 minutes ago, Yamet said:

I couldn't disagree further. I view Luna as little more than a spoiled child. She didn't get the attention she wanted so she decided to mess with the natural order of things. Refusing to lower the moon wasn't Lunas way of making statement, she was simply throwing a fit. And it's not like Luna didn't have any political power or authority. She was the co-ruler of Equestria for heavens sake. 

Also, why did she have every right to be mad at Celestia? It's not her fault that ponies sleep during the night.

while i agree with most of this, she wasn't just "throwing a fit", she felt under appreciated for what she does, and celestia got all the attention. She felt mad at celestia because of that. Luckily, this problem finally gets resolved in episode 10 of season 7 "a royal problem"

[Hierok 11,832]

4 hours ago, DANUTERCISD said:

To be honest, discord wasn't even that evil. He's just causes chaos.

Well, he changed a lot of ponies personnalities, just look at Big Mac and he made life pretty horrible for ponies. That is pretty evil.

10 hours ago, KH7672 said:

"Who says a girl can really have it all?" Yeah, that's not selfish at all

Considering when the changelings invaded Canterlot all we saw them do is trap ponies and not actually feed on them I can't say she wasn't going to be as power hungry as she was in the Season 6 finale.

I think she ment that her subjects were having food and joy for once.

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

Just now, DANUTERCISD said:

while i agree with most of this, she wasn't just "throwing a fit", she felt under appreciated for what she does, and celestia got all the attention.

In other words, she was throwing a fit. I mean, the definition of "throwing a fit" is essentially "getting very angry and fly into a rage" which is exactly what Luna did.  

[Nightfall Veilwing 1,138]

Just now, Yamet said:

In other words, she was throwing a fit. I mean, the definition of "throwing a fit" is essentially "getting very angry and fly into a rage," which is exactly what Luna did.  

Celestia was abusive to Luna by not letting her have any of the attention and always pushing her aside.

I don't blame Luna for being upset for feeling left out.

Celestia acts like she's above other ponies and positions of power/authority. I mean, watch the scenes when she's explaining something to Twilight or any of the other Mane Six ponies, and you'll noticed that she acts like she knows everything and doesn't like anything was her fault. Like in the first Equestria Girls movie, when she blames Sunset Shimmer for turning evil when, according to her, "when she didn't get what she wanted right away," which implies that Sunset was slaving for something that Celestia lied to Sunset about and gotten pissed and ran off.

So, Celestia is a manipulator and can be labeled as a narcissist.

I mean, we're all narcissistic and manipulative. 

[cmarston1 5,959]

Queen Chrysalis is at the very least really that bad.

She has shown literally redeeming qualities.

[Tao 7,858]

Tirek is just a bad guy centaur thing...I mean if you watch the Gen one of MLP,  this guy is EVIL even for a kids show in the 80's.  He wants to cover the world in darkness,   turns the ponies into his evil four horse things and takes over the world!  FIM, he takes all the magic,  gets Discord to change sides and has an epic magic battle!   I don't think this guy can be saved and personal level,  leave him evil!

[Brainstorm 4,112]

MLP has some good villains, Luna, Discord, Starlight weren't really bad, they wanted attention.

Queen Crystalias was really evil. 

[Nightfall Veilwing 1,138]

2 hours ago, Tao said:

He wants to cover the world in darkness...

And what's wrong with darkness? It's not necessarily a bad thing.

[findingbuglantis 20]

Regardless of whether or not they have sympathetic reasons they still do evil things, and place their own desires ahead of others. Bad experiences don’t make it OK to be a bad person. 

[Jeric 46,854]

One hallmark of a good villain is that you can empathize at some level with them. Maybe not always the case as there are obviously great unrelatable baddies that have no redeeming value, but it is often the case that good ones do. After all, we are all the heroes of our own story, are we not? But, at the end of they day they are still villains ... unless ... 

 

 

 

[heavens-champion 1,905]

On 9/9/2017 at 1:42 PM, Millennium Shadow said:

And what's wrong with darkness? It's not necessarily a bad thing.

If you can see in the dark, maybe.

[Nightfall Veilwing 1,138]

9 hours ago, heavens-champion said:

If you can see in the dark, maybe.

It's not the darkness itself we're afraid of, it's what's in it. Darkness is only guilty by association, here. 

[Lucartini 104]

On 9/9/2017 at 6:42 PM, Millennium Shadow said:

And what's wrong with darkness? It's not necessarily a bad thing.

Grass doesn't grow in darkness

Without grass, bunnies and ponies don't eat.

Without bunnies, humans can't eat.

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

On 2017-09-08 at 8:45 PM, Millennium Shadow said:

Celestia was abusive to Luna by not letting her have any of the attention and always pushing her aside.

No, she wasn't. Luna didn't get any attention partly because everyone was asleep when she was awake and vice versa and partly since she didn't do anything important wen she did rule Equestria. Celestia had nothing to do with it.