Between the Mane Six antagonists, why were only Gilda and Trixie reformed?

[FirePuppy 735]

Between Gilda, Trixie, Flim and Flam, Iron Will, Lightning Dust, and Suri Polomare, only the first two were reformed. Is this because Pinkie and Twilight know how to make friends the most?

By the way, Iron Will is ruled the closest antagonist of Fluttershy, end of story.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

Gilda and Trixie weren't ever really bad people, just going through bad times. Iron Will and Flim and Flam are just greedy people who are after their own benefit, I think it is good that they haven't been reformed, it makes them and the world feel more realistic. I do wish Suri would make a comeback, I hated her but I dislike one-off characters that aren't given resolutions. Lightning Dust could really use a conclusion, I would say she needs it the most actually. We at least need to see what she is doing with her life now, I would rather she already is redeemed. Like she realized the error of her ways off screen so we just get an episode of her and Dash reuniting as friends.

[Jeric 46,854]

Regarding Iron Will, there is an odd reasonableness to him that makes him hard to pin down as a true antagonist. He's shady with how he conducts business, but he doesn't appear (at least in the show) to have a rivalry with any character specifically. 

[Megas 27,739]

We're due for a Lightning Dust return, and I'm open to her reforming assuming it's well done

Spoiler

I'm still certain it's gonna happen in S8

 

[FirePuppy 735]

Just now, Windy Whistles said:

We're due for a Lightning Dust return, and I'm open to her reforming assuming it's well done

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I'm still certain it's gonna happen in S8

 

Maybe it'll happen in the Scootaloo episode, but who knows?

[Truffles 2,033]

You forgot the biggest antagonist of all: Starlight. Twilight has had the honor of being the only pony to have had two antagonists in her run on G4. (Technically, I suppose Flim and Flam count as two but they mostly operate as one mind.)

And even though your OP specifies the Mane 6, I think it's worthwhile mentioning some of the other characters' nemeses: Spike has Garble (unreformed) and the CMC had Diamond (reformed).

Edit: Speaking of Starlight, I guess Chrysalis would now be considered her nemesis? Though from the rumors I hear she's really after all of the M6?

Edited January 30, 2018 by Truffles

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,161]

44 minutes ago, Jeric said:

Regarding Iron Will, there is an odd reasonableness to him that makes him hard to pin down as a true antagonist. He's shady with how he conducts business, but he doesn't appear (at least in the show) to have a rivalry with any character specifically. 

To be fair tho you don't have to be a villain, or even an entirely bad fellow to be a true antagonist. If anything even though Iron Will is a tad more reasonable a businessman than the Flim-Flam Bros are he is still an obstacle to the goal of our main characters (Flutters, Twily) and antagonizes people well enough.

[Jeric 46,854]

Just now, Truffles said:

You forgot the biggest antagonist of all: Starlight. Twilight has had the honor of being the only pony to have had two antagonists in her run on G4. (Technically, I suppose Flim and Flam count as two but they mostly operate as one mind.)

And even though your OP specifies the Mane 6, I think it's worthwhile mentioning some of the other characters' nemeses: Spike has Garble (unreformed) and the CMC had Diamond (reformed).

I always forget about Garble, and with the Season 7 finale he continues to serve his purpose as antagonist. Currently, I wonder if it would be a stretch to say that Chrysalis is Starlight's antagonist since the last time she appeared, Bug Queen swore personal vengeance?

Just now, PathfinderCS said:

To be fair tho you don't have to be a villain, or even an entirely bad fellow to be a true antagonist. If anything even though Iron Will is a tad more reasonable a businessman than the Flim-Flam Bros are he is still an obstacle to the goal of our main characters (Flutters, Twily) and antagonizes people well enough.

True. It's the lack of adversarial or rival motivation that gives me pause here. He fits the obstacle criteria, but he stops short of some of the other criteria. 

[Truffles 2,033]

38 minutes ago, Jeric said:

I always forget about Garble, and with the Season 7 finale he continues to serve his purpose as antagonist. Currently, I wonder if it would be a stretch to say that Chrysalis is Starlight's antagonist since the last time she appeared, Bug Queen swore personal vengeance?

Lol, as you were typing I thought the same thing about Chrysalis in my edit! 

I think it is fair to say Chryssie is Starlight's nemesis right now, even if there's evidence she's still as interested in getting rid of the entire Mane 6 and not just her. Hopefully her threat against Starlight pay wasn't just an empty one and we'll see the M6 and Starlight working together to defeat her plans.

As for Garble, if anything he's become more of one as the series has gone on. Kind of how you had a respect for Iron Will's modus operandi, I liked the scenes in "Dragon Quest" where he actually respected Spike and was happy to give him full dragon honors.

Of course, it ends with him wanting to (at the very least) commit animal cruelty and at worst murder, so any respect the audience might of had for him was squandered. (Mostly for the sake of resolving the story.) I guess I could even see him getting reformed at some point before the series ends, though I'd be just as fine with him getting some of that depth back without a full reformation.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Truffles
addt'l thoughts

[Hierok 11,832]

I actually hope we never will see Flim and Flam again. They are just boring too watch.

[Jeric 46,854]

42 minutes ago, Hierok said:

I actually hope we never will see Flim and Flam again. They are just boring too watch.

I enjoyed their first appearance. Their tactics didn't come across as unscrupulous, though we were obviously rooting for them to fail. 

Their second appearance made them into fraudulent con-artists, and dangerous. I found their Season 5 appearance acceptable, but the stink of mishandling them earlier still impacts my opinion. I'm not writing them off entirely, but I'm not screaming for a return. 

Lightning Dust desperately needs a second appearance. 

[Hierok 11,832]

Just now, Jeric said:

I enjoyed their first appearance. Their tactics didn't come across as unscrupulous, though we were obviously rooting for them to fail. 

Their second appearance made them into fraudulent con-artists, and dangerous. I found their Season 5 appearance acceptable, but the stink of mishandling them earlier still impacts my opinion. I'm not writing them off entirely, but I'm not screaming for a return. 

Lightning Dust desperately needs a second appearance. 

She indeeds does. I actually she will not take revenge and tries to better her ways.  Rainbow doesn't trust it and so she doesn't forgive what can force Lightning Dust to fall back on her ways or something.

[GreenGreenWhirlWind 161]

 Flim and Flam got more or less reformed given that they landed that one job in Las Pegasus, what they're doing now isn't necessarily "nice" but A: It's better than what the previous owner was doing, and B: it's better than what they were doing before.

 I don't think Iron Will needs to be reformed, given that his episode's conflict was caused less by IW himself and more by Fluttershy taking his advice too far, and ultimately he didn't directly harm anyone.

 I do agree that it wouldn't hurt to see what Lightning Dust has been up to, however.

[Steve Piranha 29,428]

4 hours ago, Whompy Whomperson said:

We're due for a Lightning Dust return, and I'm open to her reforming assuming it's well done

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I'm still certain it's gonna happen in S8

 

The Washouts comes to mind. At first, it sounds like Dashie is just envious that Scootie the Cutie (I'll call Scootaloo like that from now on

 ) for having new models alone, but someone around here suggested a while ago that Lighting Dust will be in there, further fueling the negative feelings of Dashie about them. Hope that becomes true  

[Megas 27,739]

7 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

 

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The Washouts comes to mind. At first, it sounds like Dashie is just envious that Scootie the Cutie (I'll call Scootaloo like that from now on

 ) for having new models alone, but someone around here suggested a while ago that Lighting Dust will be in there, further fueling the negative feelings of Dashie about them. Hope that becomes true  

 

Spoiler

It might come off at that, but it also suggests that she worries for Scootaloo's safety as well. Yay for character development! 

 

[Steve Piranha 29,428]

Just now, Whompy Whomperson said:

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It might come off at that, but it also suggests that she worries for Scootaloo's safety as well. Yay for character development! 

 

exactly, though if that's the case, said plot was kinda already used in No Second Prances. This time however, Dashie has two more legitimate reasons to be wary, namely Lighting Dust was just reckless and never realized for her mistakes, and Scootie the Cutie is a kid. They could play an angle that, unlike Trix in the aforementioned episode, Lighting could be playing a more positive angle of a more genuine offscreen reformation, and not meaning any deliberate harm to her rival. Something that could happen in real life. It'd be like a mother worrying that her child is looking-up a celebrity, but said celebrity turns out was the mother's former bully, and never left in good terms. Turns out the bully is reformed during the time lapse, and is either oblivious or indifferent the fan is the child of his/her former chew toy 

[Hierok 11,832]

28 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

 

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exactly, though if that's the case, said plot was kinda already used in No Second Prances. This time however, Dashie has two more legitimate reasons to be wary, namely Lighting Dust was just reckless and never realized for her mistakes, and Scootie the Cutie is a kid. They could play an angle that, unlike Trix in the aforementioned episode, Lighting could be playing a more positive angle of a more genuine offscreen reformation, and not meaning any deliberate harm to her rival. Something that could happen in real life. It'd be like a mother worrying that her child is looking-up a celebrity, but said celebrity turns out was the mother's former bully, and never left in good terms. Turns out the bully is reformed during the time lapse, and is either oblivious or indifferent the fan is the child of his/her former chew toy 

 

Spoiler

You mean Lightning Dust worrying about Scoots? That would be cool, especially if the feeling is from both sides. I only don't know if you ment that Lightning Dust will protect Scootaloo from Rainbow Dash. 

 

[Steve Piranha 29,428]

4 minutes ago, Hierok said:

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You mean Lightning Dust worrying about Scoots? That would be cool, especially if the feeling is from both sides. I only don't know if you ment that Lightning Dust will protect Scootaloo from Rainbow Dash. 

 

No, I meant Dashie protecting Scootie from a perceived threat that is Dust 

[Hierok 11,832]

10 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

 

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No, I meant Dashie protecting Scootie from a perceived threat that is Dust 

 

Spoiler

That seems more fitting. I actually hope Lightning Dust will be Rainbow Dashes pupil, just like Starlight. 

 

[Singe 2,111]

Spoiler

For Lightning Dust, she can pursue some job being a stunt flyer or something which would be a fit for her flying style.

Shadowbolts could be real and she's one of them.

She was still a better flyer than Rainbow Dash and that can be something to settle.

Maybe something like a Pegasus NASCAR circuit. Pegasus make a big deal about racing but don't have any kind of standalone pro-sport with it.

If they want to go there, Lightning Dust pushes it too far, gets seriously injured, and can no longer fly.

 

Edited January 31, 2018 by Singe

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Suri Polomare is a scumbag, you cant compare her to Trixie, who is not the bad guy in her first episode. Cant say about Lightning Dust and Gilda, they are both Dash's friends and they are both jerks and think they are cool but Dust could be slightly worse because she nearly kill the mane 5 and her position as a Wonderbolt should come with responsibility, Gilda can be excusable because Griifins are asshole in general.

[Thrond 3,263]

On 1/30/2018 at 5:16 AM, FirePuppy said:

Gilda, Trixie,

Trixie had some implied depth which gives context to her reformation. Not as sure about Gilda, because she seemed like a pretty terrible person, but I guess that past friendship with Rainbow Dash justifies that. 

On 1/30/2018 at 5:16 AM, FirePuppy said:

Flim and Flam, Iron Will,

These two seem pretty comfortable being shady, so I'm not surprised they didn't reform. 

On 1/30/2018 at 5:16 AM, FirePuppy said:

Lightning Dust,

Who knows. She's way overdue for a second appearance. 

On 1/30/2018 at 5:16 AM, FirePuppy said:

and Suri Polomare

She's just smugly terrible. She probably has more potential for redemption than Flim & Flam or Iron Will, but it'd certainly be much more of a change than Trixie, Gilda, or Lightning Dust. 

[Cherry-Pie 176]

What about Discord? He's like the first reformed bad guy. 

 

[UltimateGhost3 498]

3 hours ago, Cherry-Pie said:

What about Discord? He's like the first reformed bad guy. 

 

Uhhhhh Did you forget the princess of the night, Luna? Or did season 1 not happen?

 

Anyway, Lightning Dust really needs to come back and be redeemed, maybe an episode with Dash, her and Gilda? As for the flimflam brothers, there's really no redeeming them from their greed, since they really don't have any character behind that element. I also don't see Iron Will as an antagonist, he's tough and stern but he doesn't really be shown to be a villain or have any evil intentions. Finally, Suri Polomare, I'll give it to you straight, she's a greedy dirtbag, you cant compare her to Trixie or Gilda or even the rest of them, who at least have a reason to be why they are, shes really just a thief and greedy mare who cannot create things herself.

[Singe 2,111]

Thinking about it unless Lightning Dust gets another shot at being a Wonderbolt, there is no point to have her pursue reforming at this time unless there is some valid story reason for it. Being a Wonderbolt was the one job where all of her flying skills could be put to use, push herself, and take some risks.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Singe