Would you trust Celestia with a WMD?

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

You're called to a secret meeting with the royal sisters, where they inform you about a recently discovered gem located at a mountain range just outside of "Our Town". Celestia tells you to go there and retrieve it. And when you ask why it's so important for her to have this one measly gem, she tells you it's not "meant" for her or any pony in Equestria. Rather, it's intended for other creatures from a far away land, with whom the gem holds a certain "cultural value," and she believes that giving it to them will help "improve diplomatic relations". Which is why she's entrusting you to excavate it before some greedy equine finds it first. She also promises a hefty reward for doing so.

Before you take the train, you make a quick stop to the Canterlot library. There, you pick up a book on super rare minerals and come across an entry with details on the very gem Celestia wants. It turns out that it's not just some ordinary rock. It actually contains highly destructive magic that, when harnessed, has the potential to wipe out a whole city like a nuclear warhead in our own world. What could this possibly mean? Is Celestia supporting terrorist regimes from overseas? Or is she actually planning to use this power to subjugate a whole species?

Without warning, Luna appears and destroys the book with her magic. She knows how much you've read about the gem, so she insists that you carry out the task and bring the gem to Celestia so that she can destroy it. It's of utmost importance to the "security of Equestria". You ask how you can be sure she's telling the truth. The only assurance she gives you is that if you DON'T do what she says, and if you tell other ponies about this, you're going to be imprisoned for treason. Or blown to pieces, as you've just seen with the book, if you don't shut up.

So what do you do then? Do you agree to get Celestia this WMD to "save Equestria" or even just your own skin? Or do you run away and not do it so Celestia doesn't put the rest of the world at risk?

Edited May 4, 2018 by KillerKingBakudan

[Goat-kun 2,527]

Why would anyone invite you to their secret meeting and then lie about the content. Either you are a trustworthy operative who agrees with their methods or they can have some dumb buck excavate it instead. Why don't they just hire Dr. Caballeron?

 

P.S: Does anypony in Equestria know how to handle powerful magic? The answer is "No".

[Starforce 26,587]

I would do the second option there. WMD's don't save anything.

[King of Canterlot 9,603]

Maybe I'll turn on Celestia and use the WMD to my own purposes........ the first step in overthrowing the Equestrian monarchy! Soviet Equestria shall rise like a phoenix above the ashes of my enemies- Celestia and Luna shall fall to my power!!1!11 

 

ALL PONIES SHALL BOW TO ME WITH THE WMD I WIELD MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!111!!!1 

[Brony Number 42 10,055]

I would not trust her with it because Equestria will get invaded, right in schedule, and the invaders will take it. Equestria has a sign that says "__ days without being invaded" and that number never gets to 3 digits.

Edited May 4, 2018 by BronyNumber42licious

[Lucid_Nightlight 923]

20 minutes ago, BronyNumber42licious said:

I would not trust her with it because Equestria will get invaded, right in schedule, and the invaders will take it. Equestria has a sign that says "__ days without being invaded" and that number never gets to 3 digits.

They should really buff up their military

[SushiSub 37]

No because what if the wmd goes off due to some unforunate circumstance? Then equestria would be in a lot of danger.

[Castle Bleck 19,307]

Do you mean the canon Celestia... or one of the Ron The Death Eater-y ones from too many fanfics to count?

[SharpWit 2,603]

Celestia has stressed that this mission be kept secret, whereas Luna has stressed its importance.

I don't advocate the use of WMDs, however I do support the use of nuclear weapons as a deterrent. Nuclear bombs aren't necessarily deadlier than conventional warfare. Sure they kill a lot of people in a small amount of time, but for most people, knowing that in an instant there will be immense death almost beyond comprehension and shortly after that same death will reach your shores, it makes you stop and ask whether that cost of life is worth whatever it is you're trying to obtain. In conventional warfare, it's a numbers game of who can keep going and for how long. Someone dies. That sucks. Another person dies? It was bound to happen. Another? He'll be replaced soon enough. And on it goes, with the bodies slowly piling up as you grow numb to the loss and you just say to yourself that we've already gone this far, might as well keep going until you run out of ammo, you wear your knife down, and it's just you and the enemy bashing each other in the head with rocks until there's no one left. Nuclear weapons have the potential to wipe us off the face of the earth several times over, but it's because of how sudden it would all end that we chose peace over all out war.

I trust men and women I know nothing about to make the right decision every minute of everyday. Learning that Celestia has lied to me about the actual purpose of the mission doesn't make me doubt her decision making. It stresses the importance that word of the gem isn't made public and that I get it before anypony else has the chance to. Whether she intends to use it or destroy it isn't of my concern. It's ensuring that those who would use it against us can't. Luna's appearance only reaffirms that I must retrieve the gem.

 

8 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Why would anyone invite you to their secret meeting and then lie about the content. Either you are a trustworthy operative who agrees with their methods or they can have some dumb buck excavate it instead. Why don't they just hire Dr. Caballeron?

Or because you're loyal and usually follow orders on a need to know basis, and Dr. Caballeron is a known criminal who will sell to the highest bidder or use the gem himself. 

 

3 hours ago, BronyNumber42licious said:

the invaders will take it

Assuming she intends to keep it rather than destroy it like she said, while also intending not to use its power, or at the very least project it's capabilities as a warning to outside threats. That'd be incompetence on a whole new level.

 

[Goat-kun 2,527]

1 hour ago, SharpWit said:

Or because you're loyal and usually follow orders on a need to know basis, and Dr. Caballeron is a known criminal who will sell to the highest bidder or use the gem himself.

If you're a grunt you don't need meetings. You only need orders. No questions asked.

 

Mercenaries bound by money are as loyal as any Element of Loyalty. Dr. Caballeron doesn't want to use powerful artifacts. He only looks for them so he can sell them for loads of bits, and he doesn't care what his clients do with them. Plus he has experience with what one might call magical WMDs. I'd imagine Celestia has a few spare bits lying around that could persuade the good doctor to behave and retrieve the item without a fuss.

[Adderbane 121]

Many interpretations of Celestia's control of the sun qualify as a WMD.  What's one more in her arsenal?

[SharpWit 2,603]

4 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Mercenaries bound by money are as loyal as any Element of Loyalty. Dr. Caballeron doesn't want to use powerful artifacts. He only looks for them so he can sell them for loads of bits, and he doesn't care what his clients do with them. Plus he has experience with what one might call magical WMDs. I'd imagine Celestia has a few spare bits lying around that could persuade the good doctor to behave and retrieve the item without a fuss.

Until someone has a better offer or the task becomes suicidal. Someone truly loyal will follow through no matter what, and money will never be a part of the equation. We've seen Dr.Caballeron turn on Ahuizotl when a sack of gold was thrown in front of him, so the risk of him selling to a higher bidder is most definately there. Just because you have access to a surplus of bits by being a head of state, doesn't mean you should throw them at a problem. That money still needs to be kept track of and it really doesn't look good if you have to hire criminals to get things done.

[Goat-kun 2,527]

44 minutes ago, SharpWit said:

Until someone has a better offer or the task becomes suicidal. Someone truly loyal will follow through no matter what, and money will never be a part of the equation. We've seen Dr.Caballeron turn on Ahuizotl when a sack of gold was thrown in front of him, so the risk of him selling to a higher bidder is most definately there. Just because you have access to a surplus of bits by being a head of state, doesn't mean you should throw them at a problem. That money still needs to be kept track of and it really doesn't look good if you have to hire criminals to get things done.

Ahui is not exactly renowned as a good customer. He does things through intimidation. I'm not even sure he pays them anything. Celestia is the opposite. Caballeron has no reason to betray a client that can potentially become a steady source of income.

 

And though I agree that loyalty is important, you should take note of the lack of respect Princesses enjoy in their own country and the placement of Harmony values above what one could rightfully speculate is the law. This is the reason why OP could even concoct such a convoluted issue in the first place. In a country where a crystal tree has more say in the matter than the ruler, the ruler should place her bets on less traditional methods of asset procurement. Most of her minions are owned by another. Not Caballeron though. He's totally neutral.

 

Only in Equestria would the legitimate ruler feel the need to hide her security plans from what I can only deduce is her own agent. There is no fandom I could name from the top of my head that would be able to come up with something so stupid, and it's not even completely our fault.

[kaiser5578 340]

well, so long as it's not my goose getting cooked than i'm cool with it. I mean how many races have really shown much understanding of complex magic anyway? who knows? maybe we'll get lucky and they just intend to get rid of the jurassic park on a national scale incident that is Tartarus and its inhabitants 

(Seriously, your post are some of my favorite things on the forms)

Edited May 5, 2018 by kaiser5578

[SharpWit 2,603]

11 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Ahui is not exactly renowned as a good customer. He does things through intimidation. I'm not even sure he pays them anything. Celestia is the opposite. Caballeron has no reason to betray a client that can potentially become a steady source of income.

Caballeron has free mobility and nothing to hold him back. If he weren't getting paid he'd go work for someone else. He's even able to make money on the side by stealing things like he attempted with the Glopaz at Somnambula. If you have others working for you without proper pay, it's because they have something of extreme value to you like a family member, or it's because you beleive in their cause. Caballeron agreed to sell the ring of destiny to a disguised Daring Do without any hesitation. He was scared of Ahuizotl when he was immediately caught in the act of betrayal, but given the chance of higher pay in the moment, he took it over a steady source of income in a heartbeat.

47 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

And though I agree that loyalty is important, you should take note of the lack of respect Princesses enjoy in their own country and the placement of Harmony values above what one could rightfully speculate is the law. This is the reason why OP could even concoct such a convoluted issue in the first place. In a country where a crystal tree has more say in the matter than the ruler, the ruler should place her bets on less traditional methods of asset procurement. Most of her minions are owned by another. Not Caballeron though. He's totally neutral.

What are you talking about? The only disrespect towards a princess that we ever see is towards Twilight but she's not even close to being seen in the same limelight as Celestia and Luna. And Harmony being valued over the law? The only time I can think of where the law may have been broken for that purpose, was in reopening Twilight's school without EEA approval, but that had more to do with recognition for meeting a standard for more basic and magic focused education, not life lessons. If you can provide a legitimate example of when the law would have been broken for the purpose of restoring harmony, I'd be impressed. The OP is well known for concocting such convoluted issues, and despite my great enjoyment of them and their high entertaining value, they usually require a lot of assumption and breakage of canon characters normal behaviors/reactions. The crystal tree doesn't have a say whatsoever as it is one of the assets. This is a world where destiny exists, there for there will be plot devices, and that is all the tree, the elements of harmony, and the cutie map are. They are tools that reflect and help the characters, not dictate their actions. Celestia on the other hand, actually provides advice and instruction, usually only giving firm orders in dire situations. Minions? She's not an evil tyrant. She's a sovereign ruler that employs the ponies necessary to operate the country and try to keep it safe. Caballeron may not care for the intentions of who he works for, but I'm certain his way of doing things doesn't fall under Celestia's approval.

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

Only in Equestria would the legitimate ruler feel the need to hide her security plans from what I can only deduce is her own agent. There is no fandom I could name from the top of my head that would be able to come up with something so stupid, and it's not even completely our fault.

Only in Equestria? Have you any understanding how governments function and perform covert operations?

[Goat-kun 2,527]

13 hours ago, SharpWit said:

Caballeron has free mobility and nothing to hold him back. If he weren't getting paid he'd go work for someone else. He's even able to make money on the side by stealing things like he attempted with the Glopaz at Somnambula. If you have others working for you without proper pay, it's because they have something of extreme value to you like a family member, or it's because you beleive in their cause. Caballeron agreed to sell the ring of destiny to a disguised Daring Do without any hesitation. He was scared of Ahuizotl when he was immediately caught in the act of betrayal, but given the chance of higher pay in the moment, he took it over a steady source of income in a heartbeat.

And that is exactly what makes him so reliable. You know how he works. You know what to expect. Send any "good" canon characters on such a mission and watch them get drowned in endless moarlfoaling as the choir of fans sings them praise from the clouds.

13 hours ago, SharpWit said:

What are you talking about? The only disrespect towards a princess that we ever see is towards Twilight but she's not even close to being seen in the same limelight as Celestia and Luna. And Harmony being valued over the law? The only time I can think of where the law may have been broken for that purpose, was in reopening Twilight's school without EEA approval, but that had more to do with recognition for meeting a standard for more basic and magic focused education, not life lessons. If you can provide a legitimate example of when the law would have been broken for the purpose of restoring harmony, I'd be impressed. The OP is well known for concocting such convoluted issues, and despite my great enjoyment of them and their high entertaining value, they usually require a lot of assumption and breakage of canon characters normal behaviors/reactions. The crystal tree doesn't have a say whatsoever as it is one of the assets. This is a world where destiny exists, there for there will be plot devices, and that is all the tree, the elements of harmony, and the cutie map are. They are tools that reflect and help the characters, not dictate their actions. Celestia on the other hand, actually provides advice and instruction, usually only giving firm orders in dire situations. Minions? She's not an evil tyrant. She's a sovereign ruler that employs the ponies necessary to operate the country and try to keep it safe. Caballeron may not care for the intentions of who he works for, but I'm certain his way of doing things doesn't fall under Celestia's approval.

How many times has the well-being of a reformed villain been given priority over security in the name of friendship? Are you gonna tell me these brainwashed buffoons who prance around at the notion of getting abused by another straitjacket candidate would be good at following strict orders? You think ponies' butts wouldn't start blipping if you'd try to construct a WMD? What would the pony you sent to retrieve it do once that happened? Would they still complete the mission? Nope. They'd hoof it straight into Twilight's castle, magic exploding crystal of doom and all. The word of a Princess is only to guide them. Harmony is the Big Brother. Hurting a Princess does not make you a default enemy of Equestria as long as you are useful to Harmony.

13 hours ago, SharpWit said:

Only in Equestria? Have you any understanding how governments function and perform covert operations?

Would you send someone who understands the entire situation to retrieve a smallpox canister or would you send a clueless grunt? If you're doing this shit you need support of competent subordinates who know what they are doing. If they screw up no amount of loyalty will undo the damage.

[SharpWit 2,603]

10 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

And that is exactly what makes him so reliable. You know how he works. You know what to expect. Send any "good" canon characters on such a mission and watch them get drowned in endless moarlfoaling as the choir of fans sings them praise from the clouds.

 

Knowing that he's totally willing to betray you makes him reliable? That's some of the most backwards logic I've ever heard. I looked up moarfoaling and my search result was a horse giving birth. The mission is top secret, this will be treated like when Seal Team 6 took out Osama bin Laden. There will be praise only if the mission is made public and it will be given towards an anonymous individual unless their identity is exposed.

15 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

How many times has the well-being of a reformed villain been given priority over security in the name of friendship? Are you gonna tell me these brainwashed buffoons who prance around at the notion of getting abused by another straitjacket candidate would be good at following strict orders? You think ponies' butts wouldn't start blipping if you'd try to construct a WMD? What would the pony you sent to retrieve it do once that happened? Would they still complete the mission? Nope. They'd hoof it straight into Twilight's castle, magic exploding crystal of doom and all. The word of a Princess is only to guide them. Harmony is the Big Brother. Hurting a Princess does not make you a default enemy of Equestria as long as you are useful to Harmony.

The only time a reformed villain has posed a threat is when Discord betrayed everyone to work with Tirek, and he doesn't follow strict orders because he's the lord of chaos, it's against his nature. Everyone else that's been reformed has fallen into line. If ponies butts aren't blipping prior to an invasion that will result in the populous being enslaved, I don't think a preexisting gem with the power to wipe out towns will, let alone other WMDs. That's a National Security Problem, not a friendship problem. The map doesn't give orders, and most ponies don't even know if it exists. There is no reason for a pony to disobey direct orders by Princess Celestia if their cutie marks starts going off. They'd cover it up and return to Celestia so as to complete the mission and give a report. Although the Princesses have taken a more relaxed role in terms of leader ship, they're still the highest authority. An attack on a sovereign ruler is treason of the highest order. Hurting a Princess does make you a default enemy of Equestria because the state and its leaders are not separate. If it's in order to restore harmony, it's because you overstretch your power as Luna did by becoming Nightmare Moon, attempting a coup, and bringing about eternal night, which would throw off the balance of power and time.

53 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Would you send someone who understands the entire situation to retrieve a smallpox canister or would you send a clueless grunt? If you're doing this shit you need support of competent subordinates who know what they are doing. If they screw up no amount of loyalty will undo the damage.

There is always the risk of a breach in security. We know this now more than ever because of the recent influx of whistle blowers. With the wide variety of opinions held in today's world as well, it's not always black an white as to whether something the government is doing is wrong or not. Thousands of people worked on the Manhattan Project. They had every day soldiers and factory workers, people from all walks of life involved in the process but they didn't know what was really going on. They worked on a need to know basis. You're given enough information to get the job done, and you get it done. Competent subordinates don't need to know absolutely everything. Only what they're doing, how to do it, and the risks involved. I would send in someone who understands what they need to understand along with additional support if required. You can't afford to disclose everything all of the time if you want to have things done with discretion. 

[Porrot 96]

I can't imagine Celestia even wanting anything to do with potentially genocidal weapons... It doesn't fit. However, if she did request deadly weaponry I'd imagine that she'd want to keep them locked away safely from beings who would use them for destruction, hiding them away to keep her subjects safe from those who would use them for evil. So I guess I would trust her.

[Monsoon 1,662]

I'd probably do it if they paid me enough however if they threatened me I'd refuse and move yo a different location

[kaiser5578 340]

9 minutes ago, Crow2 said:

I'd probably do it if they paid me enough however if they threatened me I'd refuse and move yo a different location

well mate, she is you know. THE GODDESS Of THE SUN. would it really be that hard for her to find you?

[Monsoon 1,662]

23 hours ago, kaiser5578 said:

well mate, she is you know. THE GODDESS Of THE SUN. would it really be that hard for her to find you?

Yea I know but that isn't the reason I'd leave the real reason is I wouldn't want to live as an errand boy with no other choice but if it came down to it I'd rather die fighting then be pacified

[Goat-kun 2,527]

5 hours ago, SharpWit said:

Knowing that he's totally willing to betray you makes him reliable? That's some of the most backwards logic I've ever heard. I looked up moarfoaling and my search result was a horse giving birth. The mission is top secret, this will be treated like when Seal Team 6 took out Osama bin Laden. There will be praise only if the mission is made public and it will be given towards an anonymous individual unless their identity is exposed.

Yes, the mission would be top secret. Only a handful of ponies would know about it, including Dr. Caballeron. Why would he risk the wrath of Celestia and Luna who understand his nature if he can get on their good side and earn a lot of bits in the process? He may be rotten but he's not stupid. And he knows his stuff. This mission is not fit for soldiers unless you do indeed order them to tag along. That could work. Caballeron would know what's up but would have to stick to the plan and soldiers would stick to the plan while not knowing anything.

 

Foaling is the same as pony in everypony. Use your imagination

5 hours ago, SharpWit said:

The only time a reformed villain has posed a threat is when Discord betrayed everyone to work with Tirek, and he doesn't follow strict orders because he's the lord of chaos, it's against his nature. Everyone else that's been reformed has fallen into line. If ponies butts aren't blipping prior to an invasion that will result in the populous being enslaved, I don't think a preexisting gem with the power to wipe out towns will, let alone other WMDs. That's a National Security Problem, not a friendship problem. The map doesn't give orders, and most ponies don't even know if it exists. There is no reason for a pony to disobey direct orders by Princess Celestia if their cutie marks starts going off. They'd cover it up and return to Celestia so as to complete the mission and give a report. Although the Princesses have taken a more relaxed role in terms of leader ship, they're still the highest authority. An attack on a sovereign ruler is treason of the highest order. Hurting a Princess does make you a default enemy of Equestria because the state and its leaders are not separate. If it's in order to restore harmony, it's because you overstretch your power as Luna did by becoming Nightmare Moon, attempting a coup, and bringing about eternal night, which would throw off the balance of power and time.

Reformation does not wash away your deeds. You do understand these creatures are mentally unstable, and given proper circumstances anything or anyone could make them snap. It's not that they're bad. They're just unfit to carry on by themselves ... which is even worse in a way.

 

The butts would glow since the Map has expanded and the rest is in the OP. Any disturbance that involves a struggle of two sides that displeases the Tree gets marked. This plan between Princesses and nation X would be the same.

 

Every bigger villain we've had hurt Princesses. Nothing happened. You can beat the living shit out of them without consequences as long as you have a "tragic past" and you feel bad about doing it afterwards.

 

5 hours ago, SharpWit said:

There is always the risk of a breach in security. We know this now more than ever because of the recent influx of whistle blowers. With the wide variety of opinions held in today's world as well, it's not always black an white as to whether something the government is doing is wrong or not. Thousands of people worked on the Manhattan Project. They had every day soldiers and factory workers, people from all walks of life involved in the process but they didn't know what was really going on. They worked on a need to know basis. You're given enough information to get the job done, and you get it done. Competent subordinates don't need to know absolutely everything. Only what they're doing, how to do it, and the risks involved. I would send in someone who understands what they need to understand along with additional support if required. You can't afford to disclose everything all of the time if you want to have things done with discretion. 

Pony would ignore the map if said pony is an agent that knows what they are doing. Yes, you don't need to tell them everything, but the part that involves a huge explosion would be appreciated. And this plot is so simple even an idiot royal guard would be easily capable of connecting the dots. Such charade has no point. So we still need somepony who understands but doesn't care about friendship and politics.

 

[SharpWit 2,603]

4 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Yes, the mission would be top secret. Only a handful of ponies would know about it, including Dr. Caballeron. Why would he risk the wrath of Celestia and Luna who understand his nature if he can get on their good side and earn a lot of bits in the process? He may be rotten but he's not stupid. And he knows his stuff. This mission is not fit for soldiers unless you do indeed order them to tag along. That could work. Caballeron would know what's up but would have to stick to the plan and soldiers would stick to the plan while not knowing anything.

If I replace "Celestia and Luna" with Ahuizotl, your argument completely falls apart. You're just ignoring the fact that we know he's willing to betray his clients. I'm not arguing he's not capable of retrieving the stone, but whether he'd follow through on it. He could even make money by selling the information that the gem exists. The only thing to stop him from not doing what's asked of him, is a lack of others willing to pay a higher price. Saying this mission isn't fit for soldiers is like saying there's no point in having soldiers. This is exactly the sort of thing they're meant for, it's for the purpose of protecting Equestria! They won't enquire further thus maintaining secrecy, and being a well organized and supplied defense force, there's not much better for keeping the gem safe. However, with the gem requiring excavation, it would be good to have some one who specializes in that area on board, and there's Daring Do, a pony arguably more competent than Doctor Caballeron and far more trustworthy since she finds ancient and powerful artifacts simply for their historical value and to prevent them from falling into the wrong hooves. I'm amazed by the fact you haven't mentioned her for consideration in such a role.

4 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Reformation does not wash away your deeds. You do understand these creatures are mentally unstable, and given proper circumstances anything or anyone could make them snap. It's not that they're bad. They're just unfit to carry on by themselves ... which is even worse in a way.

True, but what reformation does do, is force you to reconsider your actions. You can either change so you no longer post a threat, or the Elements can take away your power/imprison you so you are incapable of continuing to be a threat. They're not mentally unstable, they merely hold different perspectives.

4 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

The butts would glow since the Map has expanded and the rest is in the OP. Any disturbance that involves a struggle of two sides that displeases the Tree gets marked. This plan between Princesses and nation X would be the same.

The tree does not have authority. It is an object that highlights friendship problems and nothing more. This is only a disagreement between employer and employee. Yes the stakes are higher, but neither of things are of any concern on the matter of friendship. If they were regarded as such, then every single business in Equestria and beyond would be glowing at some point. The hell do you mean by nation X?

4 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Every bigger villain we've had hurt Princesses. Nothing happened. You can beat the living shit out of them without consequences as long as you have a "tragic past" and you feel bad about doing it afterwards.

Let's go through the list. Nightmare moon attempted to kill her sister in a hostile takeover, is banished to the moon for a thousand years. Discord deposed the sovereign rulers and essentially carried out 3rd Degree assault on the world, is imprisoned in stone for a little over a thousand years. Queen Chrysalis flat out invades Equestria. Elements of harmony were unable to be used during those instances so she is instead banished from Equestria and most likely awaits further punishment. King Sombra took over and enslaved the Crystal Empire, he is weakened by being turned to shadow, imprisoned under the ice of the Frozen North for over a thousand years, and later on the power of the Crystal Heart is used to essentially execute him. The Sirens tried to spread disharmony throughout Equestria, they were banished to the human world. Tirek tried to take over Equestria and steal everyone's magic, he was clasped in chains and sent to Tartarus. Trixie took over Ponyville for a while, but as much as some of us love her, she's an idiot who was only a threat because the Alicorn Amulet not only bestows the wearer with untold power but corrupts them, so it's not 100% them committing the actions. She also made up for what she had done by providing fireworks for Twilight's entertainment provision for the Saddle Arabian Delegates. She has also since helped save Equestria. The same applies to Stygian, as he was possessed by the darkness and even so, he still spent over a thousand years in limbo. Sunset Shimmer's only crime within Equestria was stealing the Element of Magic, which she ended up returning. In a way she's punished herself by staying in the human world, but that has more to do with the fact that she's rebuilt her life there. I believe that only leaves us with Starlight Glimmer, who has special circumstances since she attacked Twilight, and it was Twilight who decided her fate, approaching the situation with a focus on rehabilitation rather than conventional punishment. You say nothing happened, obviously a lot has.

5 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Pony would ignore the map if said pony is an agent that knows what they are doing. Yes, you don't need to tell them everything, but the part that involves a huge explosion would be appreciated. And this plot is so simple even an idiot royal guard would be easily capable of connecting the dots. Such charade has no point. So we still need somepony who understands but doesn't care about friendship and politics.

That would be appreciated and think should have been provided to whoever would be heading the mission only to stress the true importance of its success. We don't need to tell them everything, but that's the whole point of the OP, to cast some doubt as to what Celestia's true intentions really are. The OP however, forces us to ask questions and look further into the matter. Under normal circumstances, we have no reason to be suspect of Princess Celestia. She may be lying, but we wouldn't have any reason to beleive she is unless her behavior was off, however she provides a reasonable answer for why the gem is so precious, and an added incentive to get it. Either our curiosity evidently gets the better of us and we look for more information, or we're just paranoid at this point. There are no dots for us to connect, only a path that the OP has set us on, and we've reached a fork where we finally get to make an honest decision of our own.

Yes, we still need somepony whose profession this sort of thing would fall into, but a platoon of royal guards with someone trustworthy at the head of the mission would be so much better than Caballeron. The only reason I wouldn't immediately say go for Daring Do, is because this mission is urgent. The gem could potentially be found by anypony at anytime. We need someone readily available, not possibly far off on some adventure. Something to consider as well, most ponies probably think those two are just fictional characters made up by A.K. Yearling.

[Goat-kun 2,527]

9 hours ago, SharpWit said:

If I replace "Celestia and Luna" with Ahuizotl, your argument completely falls apart. You're just ignoring the fact that we know he's willing to betray his clients. I'm not arguing he's not capable of retrieving the stone, but whether he'd follow through on it. He could even make money by selling the information that the gem exists. The only thing to stop him from not doing what's asked of him, is a lack of others willing to pay a higher price. Saying this mission isn't fit for soldiers is like saying there's no point in having soldiers. This is exactly the sort of thing they're meant for, it's for the purpose of protecting Equestria! They won't enquire further thus maintaining secrecy, and being a well organized and supplied defense force, there's not much better for keeping the gem safe. However, with the gem requiring excavation, it would be good to have some one who specializes in that area on board, and there's Daring Do, a pony arguably more competent than Doctor Caballeron and far more trustworthy since she finds ancient and powerful artifacts simply for their historical value and to prevent them from falling into the wrong hooves. I'm amazed by the fact you haven't mentioned her for consideration in such a role.

This is exactly the scenario of Aliens: a heavily armed force fails due to lack of information and corporate shenanigans. Daring Do would be the kind of pony OP is describing. She would want to destroy it, not retrieve it. It's not a priceless historic artifact so she wouldn't care what happens to it. Substituting Celestia with Ahui is like substituting a legitimate state with a bunch of cutthroat pirates and be surprised that no mercenary wants to cooperate with them. Doctor has everything to lose if he sells that thing to a party outside Equestria. Princesses become his enemies and someone can then use the WMD to fry his butt. Indeed, our glorious writers try their best to make these baddies comically stupid, but giving a character that kind of shortsightedness is a bit much even for them.

9 hours ago, SharpWit said:

True, but what reformation does do, is force you to reconsider your actions. You can either change so you no longer post a threat, or the Elements can take away your power/imprison you so you are incapable of continuing to be a threat. They're not mentally unstable, they merely hold different perspectives.

If holding different perspectives makes you torment yourself with Tantibus, then I want to be just another brick in the wall.

9 hours ago, SharpWit said:

The tree does not have authority. It is an object that highlights friendship problems and nothing more. This is only a disagreement between employer and employee. Yes the stakes are higher, but neither of things are of any concern on the matter of friendship. If they were regarded as such, then every single business in Equestria and beyond would be glowing at some point. The hell do you mean by nation X?

Have you ever seen a pony disobey the call of the Map? Me neither.

Nation X: read the OP.

9 hours ago, SharpWit said:

Let's go through the list. Nightmare moon attempted to kill her sister in a hostile takeover, is banished to the moon for a thousand years. Discord deposed the sovereign rulers and essentially carried out 3rd Degree assault on the world, is imprisoned in stone for a little over a thousand years. Queen Chrysalis flat out invades Equestria. Elements of harmony were unable to be used during those instances so she is instead banished from Equestria and most likely awaits further punishment. King Sombra took over and enslaved the Crystal Empire, he is weakened by being turned to shadow, imprisoned under the ice of the Frozen North for over a thousand years, and later on the power of the Crystal Heart is used to essentially execute him. The Sirens tried to spread disharmony throughout Equestria, they were banished to the human world. Tirek tried to take over Equestria and steal everyone's magic, he was clasped in chains and sent to Tartarus. Trixie took over Ponyville for a while, but as much as some of us love her, she's an idiot who was only a threat because the Alicorn Amulet not only bestows the wearer with untold power but corrupts them, so it's not 100% them committing the actions. She also made up for what she had done by providing fireworks for Twilight's entertainment provision for the Saddle Arabian Delegates. She has also since helped save Equestria. The same applies to Stygian, as he was possessed by the darkness and even so, he still spent over a thousand years in limbo. Sunset Shimmer's only crime within Equestria was stealing the Element of Magic, which she ended up returning. In a way she's punished herself by staying in the human world, but that has more to do with the fact that she's rebuilt her life there. I believe that only leaves us with Starlight Glimmer, who has special circumstances since she attacked Twilight, and it was Twilight who decided her fate, approaching the situation with a focus on rehabilitation rather than conventional punishment. You say nothing happened, obviously a lot has.

Read the second part of the last sentence again. And even if the first two were meant as a bit of hyperbole, they still hold truth. None of the villains became official Enemies of Equestria. They were all dealt with behind closed doors so to speak. You've already disclosed your stance. It is not some written law that decides the fates of those who hurt others but subjective opinions of a handful of individuals that change depending not on the villain's deed but on villain as a person. This is why ponies can't have nice things. They can't even have a functioning system with friendship and some magical tree dictating their actions. That is why most of them cannot be trusted with a WMD.

9 hours ago, SharpWit said:

That would be appreciated and think should have been provided to whoever would be heading the mission only to stress the true importance of its success. We don't need to tell them everything, but that's the whole point of the OP, to cast some doubt as to what Celestia's true intentions really are. The OP however, forces us to ask questions and look further into the matter. Under normal circumstances, we have no reason to be suspect of Princess Celestia. She may be lying, but we wouldn't have any reason to beleive she is unless her behavior was off, however she provides a reasonable answer for why the gem is so precious, and an added incentive to get it. Either our curiosity evidently gets the better of us and we look for more information, or we're just paranoid at this point. There are no dots for us to connect, only a path that the OP has set us on, and we've reached a fork where we finally get to make an honest decision of our own.

Yes, we still need somepony whose profession this sort of thing would fall into, but a platoon of royal guards with someone trustworthy at the head of the mission would be so much better than Caballeron. The only reason I wouldn't immediately say go for Daring Do, is because this mission is urgent. The gem could potentially be found by anypony at anytime. We need someone readily available, not possibly far off on some adventure. Something to consider as well, most ponies probably think those two are just fictional characters made up by A.K. Yearling.

And that is why we want somepony who doesn't care for all that. You want this thing? You get this thing. No questions asked.

 

 

Daring Do is one of the worst candidates. If you really don't want the Good Doctor, then you'd still do better with Limestone. She knows stones and I doubt she'd want to play some idiotic hero.

P.S: at this point it might be good to add that Princesses in this scenario are the fanon Princesses of fandom's yore and have little in common with their canon counterparts who too would want nothing to do with WMDs.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Goat-kun

[SharpWit 2,603]

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

This is exactly the scenario of Aliens: a heavily armed force fails due to lack of information and corporate shenanigans. Daring Do would be the kind of pony OP is describing. She would want to destroy it, not retrieve it. It's not a priceless historic artifact so she wouldn't care what happens to it. Substituting Celestia with Ahui is like substituting a legitimate state with a bunch of cutthroat pirates and be surprised that no mercenary wants to cooperate with them. Doctor has everything to lose if he sells that thing to a party outside Equestria. Princesses become his enemies and someone can then use the WMD to fry his butt. Indeed, our glorious writers try their best to make these baddies comically stupid, but giving a character that kind of shortsightedness is a bit much even for them.

Or maybe they fail because they're combatting a genetic life form that was designed to kill them, and in addition to the lack of information they're fighting in close quarters. Daring do probably would destroy it but I'm sure it's priceless to someone, and if it requires excavation and has a section of a book dedicated to it then there might be some historical significance to it. Being surprised that no mercenary wants to cooperate with pirates doesn't make sense if the mercenary represents Callaberon because he's almost constantly working for Ahuizotl. He's a professional thief who puts money before everything else. If the pirates were paying enough, he'd jump right on board. Callaberon would also has the same risks with Ahuizotl when it comes to betrayal. The only difference is that Celestia is more powerful and has more guards at her disposal, however both are at a point where if they wanted to remove Caballeron from the picture, they probably could. The only reason Ahuizotl doesn't do this is probably because most of the time Caballeron follows through but Daring Do gets in the way, and he doesn't mind if Caballeron robs others living in his territory, so long as he's not stealing from him. Celestia is like a 2 ton block of concrete, while Ahuizotl is like a 500 pound block of concrete, and both are dangling from a crane. The 2 ton block of concrete might have more potential kinetic energy, but if both are dropped on your head, the result is the same. If Caballeron were to deliver the gem, and then go back to his usual working for Ahuizotl, then Ahuizotl might be furious that Caballeron didn't think of making him an offer for it, or even worse, Celestia might decide that Ahuizotl is too dangerous, and fry Caballeron's butt along with his.

On ‎5‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:36 AM, Goat-kun said:

If holding different perspectives makes you torment yourself with Tantibus, then I want to be just another brick in the wall.

I'll admit that's not healthy but it showed how sincere she was and that she claimed full responsibility for her past actions.

On ‎5‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:36 AM, Goat-kun said:

Have you ever seen a pony disobey the call of the Map? Me neither.

Nation X: read the OP.

Only as of this last episode has a character been called who doesn't directly work on friendship problems, and the friendship problems are always ones that will end up spiraling out of control and harm others if they're not solved. They don't go because the map id ordering them to, which it's not. They go because of moral obligation and because it's their job. the cutie map is just like the cell trackers used by police to figure out where there's an emergency if a location is not given during a call, with exception to those with the friendship problem not actively seeking help.

There is no nation X in the OP unless that is how you refer to Equestria in which case I'm enquired as to why?

On ‎5‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:36 AM, Goat-kun said:

Read the second part of the last sentence again. And even if the first two were meant as a bit of hyperbole, they still hold truth. None of the villains became official Enemies of Equestria. They were all dealt with behind closed doors so to speak. You've already disclosed your stance. It is not some written law that decides the fates of those who hurt others but subjective opinions of a handful of individuals that change depending not on the villain's deed but on villain as a person. This is why ponies can't have nice things. They can't even have a functioning system with friendship and some magical tree dictating their actions. That is why most of them cannot be trusted with a WMD.

How the hell were they not official enemies of Equestria? The United States and the Soviet Union never actually went to war and did things behind closed doors all of the time. Were they not enemies? The main six may not have been government officials, or acting under orders when they retrieved the elements of harmony, but Celestia as the highest authority has granted them their use, entrusting to use them responsibly, and as such have become an integral part of Equestria's defenses. Your reasoning for why can't be trusted with a WMD is pretty solid except for part on a magical tree dictating their actions because it's not. If someone were to write a letter saying "Hey, these two ponies used to get along but now they're not and it's tearing the town apart, please help us." They'd go right ahead and try to solve the problem because that's what they do. A call from that tree is equivalent to that sort of letter, it's not an order, it's bringing awareness to an existing problem. But the fact that there's that much deciding power with no consistency or oversight required in the hooves of a few is a slippery slope. However this is condoned by the highest authority being the rest of princesses. There's no way that an unreformed Nightmare Moon and Discord, a still living King Sombra, and Queen Chrysalis wouldn't be considered enemies of Equestria. Look at Tirek! That's why he's locked away in Tartarus!

On ‎5‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:36 AM, Goat-kun said:

Daring Do is one of the worst candidates. If you really don't want the Good Doctor, then you'd still do better with Limestone. She knows stones and I doubt she'd want to play some idiotic hero.

P.S: at this point it might be good to add that Princesses in this scenario are the fanon Princesses of fandom's yore and have little in common with their canon counterparts who too would want nothing to do with WMDs.

Daring Do at least isn't a risk for the Gem falling into the wrong hands, and Limestone I don't know well enough to trust her with something like this. It'd also be difficult to convince her to leave the rock farm, no matter how much we offered to pay, plus she's on the opposite end of Equestria. How about Maud? She's in Ponyville so not far away, probably knows more about rocks than anypony else, already knows the area around Our Town, because we've seen her just outside of it, and when Starlight was still up to no good, Maud had no issue pointing her in the direction of a super powerful stone that could store the cutie mark magic of an entire village. Send her in with a guard escort and get this over with.

Yeah, I really wouldn't expect Luna to show up and be so threatening but that's how these things go with KillerKingBakudan.