Tulpa Discussion Thread V1.2

[KruegerMeister 54]

1) Lets say tulpas eventually go mainstream/are objectively proven. Will society come close to collapsing due to the craziness/necessitated overhaul of laws? People will have to consider things like "Are tulpas legally persons?", "Can a being whom is mentally older than the amount of time for which they've existed consent to things?", "If an anger-prone tulpa commits assault while possessing their host, does the host have to serve time?"

2) I've heard from several people here that doubt is bad when it comes to tulpa-related things. I'm often skeptical of things such as sensational reporting and New Age terms like "vibrations" and "energy". I don't doubt that Rainbow Dash is at least subjectively real--

 

[*generic grumbling*]

 

--but is it possible to reconcile the not-doubting of A with the doubting of B?

4) Several reality checks to trigger lucid dreams (dreams in which you're pretty much a god) involve interacting with your dream-body and realizing its incorporeality. I've heard one tulpa cite having god-like powers in their wonderland as a reason for not really caring for physical existence (implying that, in the wonderland, tulpas are pretty much gods), and tulpas are naturally incorporeal. Is there a connection, or am I grasping at straws?

[Adachi 772]

I read that people who practice magick can create a servitor, that with time, graduates to a tulpa, then goes through other forms until it finally becomes a full fledged Godform. I'm not sure how a magick created tulpa differs from a tulpa created by someone who doesn't believe in magick, or if the ones created without magick could become Godforms as well, but basically, they believe that our souls are made up of large concentrations of psychic energy, and so the more energy we put into a tulpa, the faster it grows.

 

This sounds very interesting, and if people can really get a tulpa to grow to such power, then it could really help people understand tulpas more. I read it's even possible for people to see another person's tulpa when they grow around egregore status, maybe higher. Since tulpas (at least the magick created ones) are basically made of psychic energy, sensitives/psychics should be able to see them as well, but not sure.

[KruegerMeister 54]

Aren't tulpas already godforms, at least in their wonderland? "Psychic energy" doesn't really make sense. Energy is the capacity to do something, not a substance of which something can be made. "Psychic matter" would make more sense grammatically, but it still doesn't make sense scientifically. Is it hypocritical of me to want evidence of someone seeing someone else's tulpa (do you have any?), but turn around and accept the existence of tulpas with nothing but anecdotal evidence and personal experience?

 

Sorry if any of that sounded insensitive/harsh.

[AstralAmity 416]

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Edited October 29, 2021 by AstralAmity

[KruegerMeister 54]

I read about dogs being able to detect possession (at least, detect the change in body language when the tulpa enters the host's body). If "spirits" channeled by mediums aren't spirits, but agents (like tulpas), can a medium detect a tulpa? I once had a Tarot reading; it was pretty accurate in regards to my tulpaforcing "story arc", though I may have retroactively applied the interpretation of the cards to my experiences with Rainbow Dash (the "past" and "present" cards were a bit too detailed for it to be coincidence, there's a 50% chance that the "future" card was wishful thinking). I googled Chaos magick, and the Wikipedia article said that its practitioners believe in things like consciously choosing your beliefs, and "magickal paradigm shifts" (doublethink). There's a bit of overlap between Magick and Tulpaforcing. Could that lead to understandings, misunderstandings, both, or neither?

[Adachi 772]

Well, after browsing some occult forums, I found that tulpa is a tibetian word for thought form, and they're basically servitors with free will. Godform refers to a tulpa that has achieved enough power to acquire Godlike power. There's a theory that souls are basically made of energy, along with all matter. When one makes a tulpa or a servitor, they're basically focusing part of their energy to create another entity, so I believe tulpas are indeed spirit, since they are made from the same psychic energy that our spirits are made of. The amount of free will they have depends on how much energy they have, and how much they're taught, and the energy and sentience they have is the difference between servitor, tulpa, and Godform. Also, they can get energy either directly from us, take some excess energy from others, get energy from our focus on them, or even from the energy that comes from news of major world events.

 

So yeah, things like choosing your beliefs are valid and actually quite simple. We shape our reality, it's based off the thought and beliefs of the world. If everyone believed there would be peace, it would happen. That doesn't mean there will never be another conflict, but wars as we know them will be a thing of the past, unless something major shifts the beliefs of enough of the world to make them believe another war will start.

 

The only reason everyone isn't mega rich is because most don't believe they'll ever get rich, and things like that take lots of focus and effort and working towards making it a reality. The super successful people in this world either cheated their way, were born into it, or they know the power of positive thinking and stick by it. Or they just happen to be very smart or lucky

[SkyDream 315]

^ Really loving this post. I had been thinking (and wanting to say) something like that for a while now; at least the first half of the post. I do believe that this level of reality is more symbolic than not, so things take a while to achieve, rather than the base soul level which works a lot faster, so the spiritual mind has to cooperate with the physical brain to achieve what it wants.

 

I highly doubt that a sentient Tulpa would be possible if this were not the case. I can get behind phantom wings and tails and such being a product of some massive craziness in the brain, though I'm dubious it's strictly brain related because obviously we do not have wings or tails to have phantom sensations from them, but something that's sentient would require a hell of a lot more structure than random firings in the brain that persistently make more sense than static.

[KruegerMeister 54]

Would anypony here consider both having a tulpa and trying out a generic "become your pony OC" hypnosis script to be taking...something-or-other too far or otherwise "going overboard"? One of the users over on the "hypnoponies" site advised me to have a goal in mind if using pony hypnosis, and suggested that it could be good for self-exploration, but Rainbow Dash advised me that self-exploration "Iiiisn't always a good idea."

 

Here's another "society going nuts because OMG tulpas are real!!!11!" thing: there's a saying in science: you don't see things, you see light bouncing off of things. Light can't bounce off of something that isn't there, so then how can we see our tulpas, visualize our wonderlands with our eyes open OR closed, etc.? Unless...tulpas have molecules for light to bounce off of, and tulpamancers can screw around with molecules! #CrackpotTheory #MaybeEvidenceForTulpas

 

[#ThisIsntTwitter]

 

#Irony xP

Edited August 15, 2014 by KruegerMeister

[Guest]

Here's another "society going nuts because OMG tulpas are real!!!11!" thing: there's a saying in science: you don't see things, you see light bouncing off of things. Light can't bounce off of something that isn't there, so then how can we see our tulpas, visualize our wonderlands with our eyes open OR closed, etc.? Unless...tulpas have molecules for light to bounce off of, and tulpamancers can screw around with molecules! #CrackpotTheory #MaybeEvidenceForTulpas

 

[#ThisIsntTwitter]

 

#Irony xP

#nohashtagsplz

 

I'm now sure this is exactly how it works...

I'd say it's more or less what happens when you "see" stuff during your dreams, except here you're "pasting" it onto reality -hence imposition.

 

 

Don't know what you're talking about. When did I say that? My wonderland experiences are not clear at all. Though really, I don't care. I don't need them to be clear to know what is going on.

[Processing]

...

So you don't need the wonderland to be clear ?

[bashes face against desk]

[AstralAmity 416]

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Edited October 29, 2021 by AstralAmity

[KruegerMeister 54]

I accept tulpas to be real, and I don't see that broadly about the brain. Mostly because such a paradigm shift would be scary as hell with everything it implies about reality and existence. I highly doubt I could handle it.

[SkyDream 315]

Eh, there are already more cracks in the fabric of reality than we'd think. Just go with the flow, and you'll turn out alright.

[KruegerMeister 54]

That's what I figured. Is that healthy?

[SkyDream 315]

Is it healthy to know things?

 

...yes?

[KruegerMeister 54]

Lol, I meant is it healthy to go with the flow?

 

Also, Techoh, are you saying that the transfer-to-the-mind thing is a two-way street? Photons bounce off our eyes, and our eyes transfer this input to the brain, and tulpas can do that in reverse? I'm not sure how much of a tangent this is, but what do you think about this quote from Doctor Who: "The eyes are not the windows to the soul, they are the doors"?

[Adachi 772]

I think that occultists could really help in tulpa research. They say that tulpa is another word for thoughtform, and is used to refer to a servitor that is sentient. Servitors are different from the tulpas we know I think. Servitors are able to fetch certain things for their masters, but have a chance of disobeying their masters, but can be trained to follow all orders without questions. They start developing sentience the more energy that's given to them and the more they're taught, and eventually become Godforms. Tulpas are capable of thinking for themselves, and they're tulpas from the start,and although they will disobey an order that goes against it's morals, it will not turn against it's host unless the host willingly created it to want to turn against it's host. They say servitors can eventually be seen by others as they get more and more energy, and eventually can even get somewhat Godlike powers. It would be interesting to see what happens when someone who created their tulpa through the non magical means keeps feeding their tulpa energy. Most say that it's impossible for others to see their tulpa, but they also believe that tulpas are in the host's head. But if tulpas are the same thing as servitors, just with sentience and more power, then this proves that eventually, tulpas CAN be visible to others.

I accept tulpas to be real, and I don't see that broadly about the brain. Mostly because such a paradigm shift would be scary as hell with everything it implies about reality and existence. I highly doubt I could handle it.

If it makes you feel better, imagine that it's Pinkie Pie breaking the 4th wall. Because there's a chance that it is her

[KruegerMeister 54]

if tulpas are the same thing as servitors.

 

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just trying to politely express my belief that metaphysical, pseudoscientific, etc. stuff is absurd. I find it pretty hard to believe (though I'm willing to admit that, given that we only know so much, it's proponents may turn out to be correct). I'd go into detail, but I don't want to derail the thread. Anypony who's up for a debate, feel free to PM me. Fair warning: given that current science has no way of knowing if metaphysicists and pseudoscientists are right, coupled with my lack of knowledge in the field of quantum physics, I doubt either of us can convince the other of our view. But it could still be fun. Somehow

[AstralAmity 416]

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Edited October 29, 2021 by AstralAmity

[Quilava 1,290]

Ohhhh all the irks and desires that are coming from this thread. It's amazing really~

 

And all these irks and desires are building up so much discussion internally that the Archive is brimming with energy...painfully. I can't even think straight....let alone at all. 

 

Look...before you can start questioning some of the things that are being talked about here...you must question the basis. No skipping parts. There are talks about breaks in "reality", but...what exactly is reality? In essence, this is something based off our own perception and nothing more. If you start breaking everything down into its parts, you realize there is no proof of anything. *surges of painful thoughts* I can't be here...not at this point. In a way..I'm hurting Mistral by being here. Paradoxes and questions that have no established answer or theory. Impossible questions. 

 

Let me just agree with what has been said. Go with the flow. Don't question. You can seek answers, but questions typically cause more hindrances than progressions. The mind is powerful. Hell...all of what has just been written was done by listening to my own mind. Not planned by me. Not given to me through one of my brainmates. My own sentient mind. Does it make sense? Probably not. 

 

The mind is capable of anything. Or maybe it's not. With an honest opinion, there's no way to know for sure. The fact that humans vary in their prowess boosts the former though. We are how we are now because of the mind. 

 

The mind/brain can simulate reality in what we know as dreams. It can broadcast anything is knows of or desires, or even create whatever it wants through what is knows or desires. Even death. While the doc so lovingly created by Rizzy was a fake (X3), I haven't been so lucky. I can't name the dates properly, but I know it was after my beginning into tulpamancy. 

 

Let's start with the basics, or even prologue. Mistral (Greetings..) is one of my many tulpae. She's also a synthetic organism. An AI. She's also the head and sole occupant of the Gran Radian Archival Library, the massive sub-terrain information centre located in the deserts of Gran Radian, the immense wonderland of mine. It holds every bit of knowledge I've learned and retain. 

 

Now, she has a strong desire for data and the collection of it, typically following through with my own desires of knowledge, prioritizing them based on her own interests. For the most part though...she has no shields or wards that prevent her from getting the data through any means. Most of the time...this means experimentation through my dreams. Immersion in my dreams is near reality, nothing really shines differently from the different states of awareness/consciousness. This is why I have since given up on attempting to achieve lucidity in my dreams, it's damn near impossible. I retain all senses and memories...again, nothing short of "normal" reality.

 

A strong interest of mine, one that is impossible to know through conventional means, is what it's like to die. What death is like, and if it can be fought off using sheer will. I am here to say that it is 100% possible to die in your dreams. I have not done it once, but a total of four times. Four times. And the memory of each dream is so vivid. The power with each dream has been getting worse, and I even almost had another one recently. Sunday, August 10th to be exact. By almost, I mean what happened in the dream wasn't fatal. *places his hand over his hip* I was shot three times in the hip at point blank range. Prior to being shot...I was being held up at my hotel while I was at BronyCon (at least...what my mind made me think was the hotel...the area didn't matter..all that mattered was the info and data to come)....I cannot tell you the fear I felt. Not even fear...complete petrification. ...I don't think it'd truly be possible to relay the emotions and senses I experienced. I can feel all the pains I've experienced with 100% sensation...from the single bullet hole in my forehead, to be suffocated from poisonous gas. Dying isn't fun. 

 

*out of things to say about this* Well then..not sure how much this contributed...probably nothing. Oh well~

[KruegerMeister 54]

I don't even...what...? I think we might be getting off-topic.

 

Here's my attempt to get this thread back on topic: I think that a person's wonderland can tell you about them. Luigi has Gran Radian, Techoh has...I think it's some sort of multiverse of many Equestrias, and I, who fail to comprehend stuff like what they've been posting recently and like to keep things relatively simple, have a small house in a small park. I'm able to keep track of the wonky time travel stuff in the stories I'm writing, so I could be wrong.

Edited August 16, 2014 by KruegerMeister

[AstralAmity 416]

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Edited October 29, 2021 by AstralAmity

[Quilava 1,290]

Luigi has Gran Radian, Techoh has..

Luigi has.

Luigi

 

.______.

 

Ha. This mistake keeps accumulating more commonality. Hehehe...

 

Well... first I wake up screaming,

That's never fun...I've only had that happen once. The dream I had...*shivers...it couldn't have been more terrifying... See I have a desire to complete clear up all the chakras within my body for meditative and many other purpose(s), now, I have all but one truthfully clean; the root chakra. The key thing to focus on in order to help cleanse this chakra, is to let go of your fears. However, despite my attempts and desire, I've been unable to relinquish my phobia of ALL insects. So, this is where some experimentation came into play. Mistral is completely capable of setting of simulations within the mind utilizing the resources in the library. So, why not attempt to help a host out with a fear? And where else is better than in the "safety" of a dream?

 

Though...her idea of "aid", was, in the final part of the dream, have me alone in a near barren room (a single bench spanned the wall to my front right), with ~3-5 insects. Now...tiny insects just don't do, nonono~. These bugs...my description goes as followed; Take a mosquito, enlarge it to the size of a decent sedan and place it on a wall. It's powdery white in colour and texture (no I didn't touch it but it was flaky from the look of it) and it has excessively long legs and fierce black eyes the size of tennis balls. I stared for a few moments, then the one I'm looking at jumps at me with a speed you can imagine... I woke up and screamed in complete despair. 

 

Sometimes...her empathy drives malfunction ^^;;;

 

Data collection was still a success regardless of your wakening. 

 

._.

[AstralAmity 416]

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Edited October 29, 2021 by AstralAmity

[KruegerMeister 54]

What I do for my fears is, I either try to find a picture of the fear (as the "fear" is most commonly a scary/creepy pic of something) if possible, or else I just imagine the fear, and tell it to "please go away". The feared thing is commonly sad when it leaves. Psychoanalysis time, Dash! The feared thing is sad...why?...*rubs chin* Why...?

 

[it wants to be a tulpa.]

 

And we vowed that there'd just be you and our hypothetical foal (which seems less and less likely; idk if I'd be a good parent, and don't want to give myself an excuse to not hang out with Dash) in my head, so the creature in the image can't get what it wants. Hmmm...does that make me worst-ish pony, and why am I so calm when wondering if I'm worst-ish pony?

 

[i [i]did[/i] come up with that five minutes ago.]

 

Wait, I feel like I parroted--

 

[No.]

 

Does anypony else question whether or not they parrot their tulpa(s) when proxying?

I read this on the hypnoponies board:

We offer education to those that discover it. The problem is that only a small percentage of those that discover it are likely to educate themselves. Most will judge us or spread wrong information by accident. The more people knew. The more people know not enough.

 

A whole group will start to spew nonsense about possible negative side effects. Which then actually will begin to manifest due to the power of suggestion. Money seeking advocates will try to sue us for medical malpractice while we do not claim to be able to cure people.

 

But worst out of worst. It will make clear to people it is possible.

MLP is a fairly safe show to connect with. But I can easily see amateurs messing up with files to become the Joker, a vampire or other unstable and potentially dangerous characters.

 

Those that have a purpose for us and seek us out will find us. But others that don't. We prefer to be hidden from.

I'm pretty sure that before we can try to get tulpas proven, we should try to censor "bad press" like the creepypasta(s) and that one 4Chan story about the screaming Pinkie tulpa. Even then, people will probably just make juicy shit up to get ratings for their talk show or news broadcast or whatever. The power of suggestion has a big impact on one's hypnosis experience. Know what, or rather, who else it effects, as stated by several ponies here? Tulpas. I think--I, personally, am of the opinion (this is by no means a factual statement of what is to come)--that people will try out tulpa creation, stumble upon the bad press, and take it as fact. The power of suggestion will then make it fact, thus creating further "evidence" (are anecdotes evidence?) that tulpas are evil, which reinforces novice tulpamancers' beliefs/expectations, ad infinitum.

 

["Expectations". They expect tulpas to be evil, so why would they start tulpaforcing?]

 

Touché. I'll just finish my thought for the benefit of the thread: On the one hand, Freedom of Speech is awesome and censorship/political correctness is likely a slippery slope (I can see people going overboard and censoring any "bad press"-type things found in the progress reports on tulpa.info). On the other, not removing the "bad press"...uhhh...the "bad press" is like Freddy Krueger; he can only kill you if you're afraid of him, and you can't fear what you don't know exists. The "bad press loop" thing can only start if people are aware of the bad press.

 

[seriously, catastrophizing!]

[TheAnonPony 7]

Regarding the chance of accidentally making a creepy/'evil' tulpa. Val and Tyrea want to say something;

 

Val: When a tulpa gets to be scary, it's because of intrusive thoughts/fear of the unknown/other reasons. If you cannot deal with those influences, it will negatively affect the tulpa and it's form, aura (or presence) and overall effect on the host. Here, in Arcadia, we learned to deal with these kind of things quite nicely.

 

It will also be quite impossible to censor the creepypasta or the screaming pinkie pie on the internet. What can be done though is to make sure that the chances of this (the creepypasta) happening are incredibly low to none.

 

Tyrea: And also to highlight the fact that the host has absolute control over the creation process. Intrusive thoughts can easily influence a tulpa. Yet, the host can easily counter (based on how much will and self control he has) them and the outcome. It just depends on how much you believe you can pacify it. 

 

Val: As proof to what Tyrea said: we have some creepy characters (from mlp fandom horror) that happen to be less scary than when we first met them. Long story short: The 'baddies' became the 'goodies' and, much to my surprise; they actually requested advice to be less creepy or scary around Anon (because he is the only one who didn't get used to it fully). So, it can happen that a tulpa is creepy but there are many solutions to the issue.

Edited August 17, 2014 by TheAnonPony