S09:E22 - Growing Up Is Hard to Do

[Thrond 3,263]

I will say that I enjoyed this a lot more than "The Last Crusade," because this felt like it focused on storytelling and theme whereas "The Last Crusade" ignores more interesting possibilities in its push towards finality. Nonetheless, I think that this show's actually doing a very good job with everyone who isn't the mane six. 

[DonMaguz 1,023]

1 hour ago, bwrosas said:

This is why, some fans feel ( and I intend to agree to point), that from a contunity standpoint and episodic point of view, this episode would have served better as EPS. 12, and "The Last Crusade" as this weekend's eps. 22.

I see why people would think that, 'The Last Crusade' has that 'final season' vibe, while 'Growing Up Is Hard to Do' has a sort of 'timelessness' vibe.

I already said that this episode would fit better, IMO, on S6. But that doesn't mean it is out of place on S9, and it would definitely have worked since S3 at least.

Edited September 29, 2019 by DonMaguz

[Sparklefan1234 170,911]

The title for this episode "Growing Up Is Hard To Do" is a reference to the song "Breaking Up Is Hard to Do" by Neil Sedaka. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Sparklefan1234

[Latecomer 439]

9 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

This is very good! The CMC have often been treated like little adults lately, even though they still kinda act like children, so it's really nice to see a story where they behave in a way that seems more true to their age. 

• The fact that this could have happened in pretty much any season is a positive feature. It means this episode doesn't have any of this season's excruciating attempts at finality. It just tells a good story. 
• I'm honestly kinda relieved that this basically ignored the CMC's increased responsibilities and Twilight's preparation to rule Equestria,
• The CMC don't even know how old the flower has made them, which is exactly the point. This is one time that the show's age ambiguity really works in its favour. 

It's interesting that you consider what I see as some of the episodes weaknesses among it's strengths. I get the feeling that you dislike the CMC having grown up over the course of this 9 year show... for some reason. How much a focus on finality is important is debatable, but certainly a character's last appearance shouldn't throw all their progress away.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Latecomer

[Thrond 3,263]

19 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

It's interesting that you consider what I see as some of the episodes weaknesses among it's strengths. I get the feeling that you dislike the CMC having grown up over the course of this 9 year show... for some reason. How much a focus on finality is important is debatable, but certainly a character's last appearance shouldn't throw all their progress away.

I like that they’ve matured, but the new responsibilities they’ve taken on have always seemed quite bizarre to me. I liked most of the episodes about them solving cutie mark issues, but I also think they’re doing way too much for mere children. If the show was gonna have them grow up, it should have gone all the way with that. It didn’t, and it still mostly presents them as children, so there should be some balance. And I don’t think this is that inconsistent; the CMC don’t do a lot of adventuring on their own, and just because they can give advice on some things doesn’t mean they know everything. 

That comment about age ambiguity was not meant to reference continuity. I just think it was an appropriate choice for this specific story.

Also, I should clarify that I have never thought of the CMC as adults, and have never believed that the show’s timeline matched ours. Their behaviour always suggested children to me except when they’re talking about cutie marks, which is why their current role seems strange to me.

Edited September 30, 2019 by AlexanderThrond

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

So... mixed feelings about this one, and I'm not entirely sure why. It was cute, and it also had some really funny moments. Am I the only one who got a bit of a "de-evolved" vibe from the CMC in this one. Similar to what was done to Dash and Twilight in recent episodes?

Some of these mistakes feel beneath the three of them at this point, for how far they've come. Heck, even Applebloom's attempt at making a dangerous journey by herself against all recommendations, overall went more smoothly than this. At the very least she made it a lot further before hitting a point where she couldn't go further. Maybe I've given them more credit than was deserved after all this time. While I can get them trying to encourage sharing, I just can't imagine them going so far as to end up with a pony being left out.

On some deep level though I guess rushing to grow-up would fit with their past traumas, feeling like they were lagging behind the rest of their peers with getting cutie marks.

Alright, that critter is flipping cute. Cool little Gremlins homage? I'm pretty sure the box they kept it in was inspired by the one that Gizmo was in. "Whatever you do, don't ever let him get excited."

The flower gave me a chuckle at first. "Somebody had better get someone to kiss the beast REALLY soon." I did very quickly realize what was about to really happen when the CMC started getting whiny around it. Possibly even before it started glowing. I'm forever labelling that thing Lilium Zultarii. Common name: "The Zoltar Lily."

[Latecomer 439]

22 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I like that they’ve matured, but the new responsibilities they’ve taken on have always seemed quite bizarre to me. I liked most of the episodes about them solving cutie mark issues, but I also think they’re doing way too much for mere children. If the show was gonna have them grow up, it should have gone all the way with that. It didn’t, and it still mostly presents them as children, so there should be some balance. And I don’t think this is that inconsistent; the CMC don’t do a lot of adventuring on their own, and just because they can give advice on some things doesn’t mean they know everything. 

That comment about age ambiguity was not meant to reference continuity. I just think it was an appropriate choice for this specific story.

Also, I should clarify that I have never thought of the CMC as adults, and have never believed that the show’s timeline matched ours. Their behaviour always suggested children to me except when they’re talking about cutie marks, which is why their current role seems strange to me.

I agree that the show has been very non-committal - but obviously, my opinion of the solution is the opposite. Namely, that I feel that the CMC being kids should have been left behind a couple of seasons ago, around Forever Filly. Continued age ambiguity is tolerable as a unmentioned background element, but foregrounding it really annoys me - the bit in the end where they're called out as younger than Biscuit and Spur adds insult to insult. Still, besides that it's a solid episode, just an out-of-place one. Easy enough to knock back a few seasons, especially if you delete the Starswirl reference.

 

10 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

So... mixed feelings about this one, and I'm not entirely sure why. It was cute, and it also had some really funny moments. Am I the only one who got a bit of a "de-evolved" vibe from the CMC in this one. Similar to what was done to Dash and Twilight in recent episodes?

Some of these mistakes feel beneath the three of them at this point, for how far they've come.

Yep, this is basically the only real problem with the episode.

[Buttonmash1973 1,026]

On 9/24/2019 at 8:08 PM, The Nth Doctor said:

Well, as a sendoff for the CMC, it was a lot of fun.

Also took us nine years, but we finally got a Wizard of Oz reference!

 

That was one of the best parts.

[Ganondox 899]

The premise of this episode really doesn't work at this point in time, especially coming after The Last Crusade. While I'm one to roll my eyes when people complain about episodes not respecting supposed character growth, the Cutie Mark Crusaders actually did grow a lot, and this episode portrays them as far too immature for how they were handled in the last few seasons. As a concrete example, apparently going on the train by themselves is too much for them, but them doing that was vital to the resolution of The Last Crusade! Aside from being poorly placed, the details in the writing were just awkward. Like this: 

"Apple Bloom: I wish it would happen all at once. Then we'd know everything we need to get to the fair and back with no problem."

With the way she worded her wish, I think it would nullify the upcoming conflict in this episode even if it introduces other problems, but no. Then basing the conflict around the Whirling Mungtooth didn't work very well, it turned the message into a Space Whale Aesop as well as not really even exemplifying the message they were trying to send as the issue was they were abusing their authority as adults, not that they lacked any particular knowledge or maturity that adults would have. I wish they just ended the Cutie Mark Crusaders arc with The Last Crusade instead of including this. 

[Senko 459]

Ok I liked this episode lots of nice elements.

1) I laughed at angry sweetie belle bucking the itinery.
2) One wish per petal wonder what hte other ones were
3) interesting to see the adult crusaders though it does confirm scoot wont be bale to fly when she gets older which is sad.
4) It was Interesting to see adult Sweetie next to her pre-teen? model though I wish they had the teen model of the other two ponies after so many years.
5) Why is there a height requirement for the ferris wheel?
6) Silly fillies why didn't you ask pinkie, discord, trixie or starlight to name a few?
7) I felt Fluttershy was good with the expressions and reactions especially the deadpan "This one's excited" when a pile of debris hits the wall next to her.

On 9/29/2019 at 4:09 PM, Lulaypp said:

 

Although, Sweetie Belle can teleport herself and someone else and they both are unharmed? I remember back in Ticket Master (I think it was that episode) where Twilight was chased by the entire town and she teleported herself and Spike away. Spike was smoking/burnt because of it. And Twilight's 'talent' is magic and she is rather expirienced, from what I can tell. So when did Sweetie get the sudden mastery over teleportation spells?

 

I actually felt this was an interesting comparison with the two. Twilight long distance into a building she can't see slightly fries herself and Spike with her second (on screen) teleport attempt whereas Sweetie is sparking and seems to be in some pain after a short distance teleport to a location she can see.

[Lucky Bolt 35,063]

I should also mention I really love Spur’s design, too. New fav pony? Check. 

[YoshiAngemon 223]

5 hours ago, Senko said:

Ok I liked this episode lots of nice elements.

1) I laughed at angry sweetie belle bucking the itinery.
2) One wish per petal wonder what hte other ones were
3) interesting to see the adult crusaders though it does confirm scoot wont be bale to fly when she gets older which is sad.
4) It was Interesting to see adult Sweetie next to her pre-teen? model though I wish they had the teen model of the other two ponies after so many years.
5) Why is there a height requirement for the ferris wheel?
6) Silly fillies why didn't you ask pinkie, discord, trixie or starlight to name a few?
7) I felt Fluttershy was good with the expressions and reactions especially the deadpan "This one's excited" when a pile of debris hits the wall next to her.

I think for #6, Pinkie Pie would be busy with a baked goods delivery, and her responsibility with cakes is top priority, and Starlight and Trixie would've been busy with the School and her magic show respectively, and Discord would just want to see the chaos happen, rather than be responsible with three fillies.

[Thrond 3,263]

9 hours ago, Latecomer said:

Forever Filly

I always found that episode kinda confusing in light of the show's unclear time scale, which is I guess why I wasn't thinking about it here. 

It's true that kids who watched My Little Pony in 2010 are older now, but I also think that this children's show should still have characters who match its target demographic. Most of the main characters are obviously adults, which is a weird thing for a cartoon like this. I guess they could have had the student six take over, but that leaves less space for the CMC. 

I also don't care very much about the show's continuity anymore, so that probably influences my opinion too.

9 hours ago, Latecomer said:

Continued age ambiguity is tolerable as a unmentioned background element, but foregrounding it really annoys me - the bit in the end where they're called out as younger than Biscuit and Spur adds insult to insult.

What I meant is that, because the CMC just have a vague idea of "adulthood," the fact that they don't know exactly how old the flower makes them is appropriate. As far as they're concerned, they're just "grown up" now and that's all that matters. 

I'll admit, however, that Biscuit and Spur are around the age that I had assumed the CMC were at; I'd always thought they were entering adolescence. 

 

[Latecomer 439]

16 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

 

Part of it may depend on how old you thought they were to begin with - I figured 10-12, which given the length of the show makes them at least very nearly adults. I never considered them anywhere near the target audience, except relative to the Manes.

And I cast off continuity when the Sisters said they were retiring, but it still annoys me.

[Thrond 3,263]

1 minute ago, Latecomer said:

which given the length of the show makes them at least very nearly adults.

I don't think time works that way in this show. 

[Latecomer 439]

Just now, AlexanderThrond said:

I don't think time works that way in this show. 

Well then, other characters should't get to progress - say, to ruler of Equestria - either.

[Thrond 3,263]

2 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

Well then, other characters should't get to progress - say, to ruler of Equestria - either.

I agree in that specific case - Twilight shouldn't become ruler of Equestria - but I meant more that, for all that Twilight has been through, I basically perceive her as being the exact same age she was at the start of the show. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by AlexanderThrond

[Latecomer 439]

1 minute ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I agree in that specific case - Twilight shouldn't become ruler of Equestria - but I meant more that, for all that Twilight has been through, I basically perceive her as being the exact same age she was at the start of the show. 

Well while the physical models may support that, I find it overall incompatble with the show integrating long-tern career growth and development, and would at the very least prefer they kept such things deniable rather than flaunting them.

[Thrond 3,263]

Just now, Latecomer said:

Well while the physical models may support that, I find it overall incompatble with the show integrating long-tern career growth and development, and would at the very least prefer they kept such things deniable rather than flaunting them.

It's more than the character models that make me think that, but sure, the show is messy in a lot of ways. It just doesn't really bother me here because I think this is a good story. Maybe I just have low expectations, I dunno. 

[Latecomer 439]

Just now, AlexanderThrond said:

It's more than the character models that make me think that, but sure, the show is messy in a lot of ways. It just doesn't really bother me here because I think this is a good story. Maybe I just have low expectations, I dunno. 

I can tolerate such things in other proreties (like Pokemon and the Babysitters Club) but the less episodic something is the less it works. And what besides visuals does make you think that about the Manes?

[Thrond 3,263]

15 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

I can tolerate such things in other proreties (like Pokemon and the Babysitters Club) but the less episodic something is the less it works. And what besides visuals does make you think that about the Manes?

My Little Pony pretends to be serialized but I still mostly view it as an episodic show, if only because it makes the most sense like that. 

I guess saying "I think these characters are exactly the same age" isn't entirely correct; it's more that the show isn't consistent or detailed enough that I can pin down any sort of progression. So I don't think about it very much, because I don't consider it important. 

You don't have to agree with me. I'm just hoping you kinda understand where I'm coming from. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by AlexanderThrond

[Latecomer 439]

13 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

My Little Pony pretends to be serialized but I still mostly view it as an episodic show, if only because it makes the most sense like that. 

I guess saying "I think these characters are exactly the same age" isn't entirely correct; it's more that the show isn't consistent or detailed enough that I can pin down any sort of progression. So I don't think about it very much, because I don't consider it important. 

You don't have to agree with me. I'm just hoping you kinda understand where I'm coming from. 

It stated quite episodic, but grew less so over time (though it's still halfway there.). And I think about this stuff a lot.

Also, I think one reason it particularly annoys me in this episode (besides how it flaunts something I've quietly been ignoring) is the moral. It doesn't really work when adulthood doesn't come to those who wait patiently, but only those who use magic flowers.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Latecomer

[Thrond 3,263]

19 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

It doesn't really work when adulthood doesn't come to those who wait patiently, but only those who use magic flowers.

Ehh, I think that’s reading too much into it. I know the CMC will become adults eventually, just not on-screen. I have an easy time taking that for granted; the idea that we would see them grow up never seemed likely to me. We can safely assume that most adults didn’t use a magical flower to grow up. 

[Latecomer 439]

5 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Ehh, I think that’s reading too much into it. I know the CMC will become adults eventually, just not on-screen. I have an easy time taking that for granted; the idea that we would see them grow up never seemed likely to me. We can safely assume that most adults didn’t use a magical flower to grow up. 

You see, that kind of thing works in a show that isn't going to last more than 65 episodes. Over 200, with repeated annual events and clear passage of time in many cases? Well as I said, I can just about ignore it if it isn't rubbed in my face.

[Thrond 3,263]

1 hour ago, Latecomer said:

You see, that kind of thing works in a show that isn't going to last more than 65 episodes. Over 200, with repeated annual events and clear passage of time in many cases? Well as I said, I can just about ignore it if it isn't rubbed in my face.

Agree to disagree.