Can the Changelings be justified for their actions or not?

[Magic Man 222]

Okay, as much as I like the Changelings, I do have a problem or two with the way they're interpreted by some in the fandom. I have no qualms about them being portrayed as more sympathetic and not uniformly evil (the latter I actually advocate), but I keep seeing their actions being justified (like most MLP villains) to the point they are portrayed as victims, not wrong in itself, but a lot of fans begin to take this as fanon, or canon, or whatever it's classified as. I have a problem with this, because I cannot agree, no matter how much I like Changelings, that they were any way in the right in what they did in Canterlot Wedding. Also, my other gripe is how fans justification of their actions sometimes leads to making the heros out to be selfish and in the wrong. Celestia, of course, has been on the receiving end of that most of all, just like with Luna and Discord.

I'm going to look at the issue and give my own take on it.

Okay, so on one hand, the Changelings' primary food is emotion, namely love, which is the argument many use when making the Changelings sympathetic and trying to justify their actions. Feeding on other sentient creatures is more of a necessity than a desire, although the soldiers did visually take enjoyment in their invasion of Canterlot. In this point of view, the Changelings are just trying to prevent themselves from starving, making it a predator and prey situation, which then does not make the Changelings exactly evil. Even with Chrysalis, the point can be argued she was fulfilling her duties as queen to find love for them to feed on.

With this in mind, it is perfectly understandable for people to sympathize with the Changelings. But then some people make out the ponies to be selfish jerks, Celestia especially, for the Changelings being expelled from Canterlot. A lot of fans seem to forget things from the ponies' side. Remember the predator-prey situation I just mentioned? Well, as the prey, Shining Armor and Cadance were simply both defending not just themselves, but their people as a whole, when they cast that spell to repel Chrysalis and the Changelings. It's like what Celestia and Luna did with Discord - they were saving their people. I mean, what do we expect the ponies to do? Just lay down and let the Changelings suck them dry? I mean, yeah, it's how they eat, but it is still wrong. This is kind of the problem, as one member whose name I have forgotten mentioned in one of my precious topics on Changelings, said about the two species living in peace. They basically cannot do that as the Changelings needs will have to be placed above the ponies, and the latter at the end of the day would just be cattle to them.

As for Chrysalis, whilst it is noble to find your subjects food, it should be pointed out that she mentioned it almost offhandedly like some minor side-note, and she did not even try to use it to justify herself. Her personality has to be kept in mind. She definitely took sadistic pleasure, like her soldiers, in all the grief and suffering she inflicted on the ponies. It was pretty obvious she had more selfish, imperialistic motivations other than just finding food. I mean, yeah, her subjects get food, she gets to take over Canterlot and soon, an entire nation!

This is just my take on the matter. The Changelings may have been searching for food, but they were still the ones in the wrong in Canterlot Wedding and the ponies shouldn't be faulted for just defending themselves from an invasion that would have spelt doom for their people. I look at the Changelings and see a complicated situation, not victims of the "tyrant" Celestia.

If you have different views on the issue, please post them and discuss.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Magic Man

[silvadel 1,393]

In my view they are still evil. They could get love the old fashioned way and earn it. They do not have to steal other ponies love. In this case it was more that the ponies were the "best" food they could obtain -- not the only food.

[Juggler 345]

I agree. Saying that the ponies did wrong is ridiculous. How many of you guys don't kill mosquitoes? Do you just let them sit down on your arm and suck your blood? Sure there maybe are some people that actually does this, but for most people I don't think that is the case. Creatures are very egoistic. We do what are best for us so we don't have to suffer. The ponies defended themselves because if they didn't the changelings would feed of their love making them basically like empty shells. Sure, they would live. But without love? That isn't really a life if you ask me. So even if you let mosquitoes suck your blood you probably wouldn't let anyone suck all the love out of you for their well being.

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

Their queen demonstrated a poor attitude during her time as false Cadence and performed a song expressing how little of value she holds for Shining Armour, her royal duty (if she ever got it), the dress, the wedding, the cake, etc etc... her minions just followed suit, but this race is really brought out in a negative light and is hostile. So no, they were not justified. It's one thing to feed your race and try to survive, it's another thing entirely when you blatantly disrespect the race you're attempting to leech off of.

[OptimisticNeighsayer 478]

Eeyup.

 

Loving Changelings because they need their food makes about as much sense as forgoing antibiotics/vaccines solely because bacteria/viruses have to live. Whatever their Queen's other motivations, to me, has nothing to do with the picture.

[Dusty Soul 2,611]

I don't think their actions can be justified at all... They basically took over Canterlot and started feeding on everyone. Not only that, she blasted Celestia, so their actions can't be justified at all.

[Soviet Spy 31]

It's hard finding the right words, but I'll try to say what's on my mind... everybody says that the changelings need to feed off of love to survive. Maybe that's true, but there's one thing that I noticed that might prove that to be false. How did the changelings survive for all that time without attacking any other ponies? If they needed to feed off of love, then wouldn't they be dead? What do you guys think?

 

Also, profile picture is related.

Edited September 2, 2012 by grimthedevilish123

[OptimisticNeighsayer 478]

It's hard finding the right words, but I'll try to say what's on my mind... everybody says that the changelings need to feed off of love to survive. Maybe that's true, but there's one thing that I noticed that might prove that to be false. How did the changelings survive for all that time without attacking any other ponies? If they needed to feed off of love, then wouldn't they be dead? What do you guys think?

 

Also, profile picture is related.

 

Well, we need to "feed off" carbohydrates, proteins, fats, etc. to survive. Doesn't mean we have to be sucking on them constantly. Of course, that point is dependent on the interpretation that Changelings are like leeches, or even viruses.

 

Also, Chrysalis heavily implies that the Changelings are itinerant, so they might have fed off love elsewhere before coming to Canterlot. That and they probably have "love stores" much the way we have fat stores in our own bodies. Or even worse-- the Changelings have been feeding off love in other parts of Equestria right under everyone's nose!

[Soviet Spy 31]

Well, we need to "feed off" carbohydrates, proteins, fats, etc. to survive. Doesn't mean we have to be sucking on them constantly. Of course, that point is dependent on the interpretation that Changelings are like leeches, or even viruses.

 

Also, Chrysalis heavily implies that the Changelings are itinerant, so they might have fed off love elsewhere before coming to Canterlot. That and they probably have "love stores" much the way we have fat stores in our own bodies. Or even worse-- the Changelings have been feeding off love in other parts of Equestria right under everyone's nose!

 

Yeah, I was going to mention that last part. It could have happened, but it's not clarified, so who knows. Most of this is speculation, but I just wanted to share what I thought about that.

[Magic Man 222]

I agree. Saying that the ponies did wrong is ridiculous. How many of you guys don't kill mosquitoes? Do you just let them sit down on your arm and suck your blood? Sure there maybe are some people that actually does this, but for most people I don't think that is the case. Creatures are very egoistic. We do what are best for us so we don't have to suffer. The ponies defended themselves because if they didn't the changelings would feed of their love making them basically like empty shells. Sure, they would live. But without love? That isn't really a life if you ask me. So even if you let mosquitoes suck your blood you probably wouldn't let anyone suck all the love out of you for their well being.

 

Exactly. I mean, what did people who have a go at the ponies honestly expect them to do? The Mosquito comparison is near enough perfect, but I got another one: blaming the ponies for defeating the Changelings is like blaming Allied Forces for defeating the Axis Powers. Were the Russians in Stalingrad just supposed to drop their guns and go, "Oh, okay, they need it more"? I just hate how people, or fans try to spin it around to make the Changelings victims and the ponies the monsters when it really just isn't the case.

[ping111 124]

The Changelings themselves are innocent - they're just listening to their leader, who promises them food. However, Chrysalis is to blame. There are plenty of smaller cities she could have led her herd to, and not Canterlot. As she said: "Canterlot has more love than any other city we've seen." So, this was an obvious power-grab.

[Super Writer 13]

They are justified in the sense that they need love to survive. Perhaps they could have found an alternative means of doing so, but it's their nature. Bears aren't evil because they eat innocent fish, are they?

 

However, the ponies were also justified to kick them in the faces and giving them the boot from the kingdom.

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

I think that the real tragedy is that the changelings can only feed off of love (so far as we know). You could feel sorry for them, however as previously mentioned they seemed quite delighted to enslave and assault a peaceful nation that had done nothing to them (that we know of). Chrysalis in particular enjoyed tormenting Twilight about the fact that she had made her brother into a puppet. And in my opinion the Equestrians' actions were entirely justified. If a hostile species invades your country with the sole purpose of enslaving you so they can feed off of your emotions as far as I'm concerned you have every right to kick their flanks out of the country. Sucks for the changelings of course, but that's just how it goes. It's the same thing with Discord, it sucks that he has to be turned to stone and all, but if the alternative is letting him rule over everyone and make their lives hopelessly miserable forever while he gleefully plays with your mind, find the bloody elements of harmony and blast him ASAP.

Edited October 18, 2012 by DashForever

[Zygen 6,066]

They couldn't just let them suck them dry, besides the queen wanted to basically control all of equestria, sorry but she can't just barge in and enslave them all. Shes evil in my eyes.

its like misquotes, yeah they need blood to give birth but you don't just let them suck blood from you because you kinda need it to.

You can't just disregard one or the other, its not there's so they're stealing therefore there in the wrong. End of story in my eyes I find them evil. Atleast from that scenario.

[NavelColt 22,880]

As far as I see it, the Changeling species as whole? Yeah, sure. They're parasites. Parasites are universally hated in nature, because they do nothing but harm to those they feed on, but at the same time, it's just their unique way of surviving.

 

However, Chrysalis sure seemed to enjoy being a bitch, imprisoning people, etc. and took cleeeeear joy out of the whole thing. So while Changelings themselves are just following their leaders orders, and trying to obtain food, I think Chrysalis is anything but innocent or justifiable. She loved the fringe benefits of the power she got, and she loved it all on a personal level, outside the 'Oh, I'm just trying to feed my species is all :333333'.

Edited October 18, 2012 by ~Chaotic Discord~

[brian577 120]

The Changelings themselves are innocent - they're just listening to their leader, who promises them food. However, Chrysalis is to blame. There are plenty of smaller cities she could have led her herd to, and not Canterlot. As she said: "Canterlot has more love than any other city we've seen." So, this was an obvious power-grab.

 

Go back and watch the episode again. She said "Equestria has more love than any place I've ever encountered" They weren't going to just take Canterlot, they were going to take the whole country. And how is better for them to have attacked a smaller town like say Ponyville?

Edited October 18, 2012 by brian577

[Silverwisp the Bard 2,353]

Well, the Changelings and Crysalis in particular behaved pretty cruel, but imagine this: If you had lived your whole live surrounded by creatures, not only born much more beautiful than you but free to do whatever they want with their life, while your only option to survive is to mimic them and hide your true self and now is your one chance to pay them back, how would you act?

 

Imo they are evil, but I think it is understandable, how they turned out the way they did.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Silverwisp the Bard

[Soviet Spy 31]

I don't really think they can be justified. I mean, yeah, they feed off of love, but couldn't they do that without hurting anypony? As was previously stated, they took pleasure in hurting the ponies. They didn't have to be so rough; they could have just fed off of it and left without really doing much damage. Instead, they destroy a bunch of things and hurt and harrass the ponies.

 

If they wouldn't have been such douchebags then they would definitely be justified.

[Magic Man 222]

Well, the Changelings and Crysalis in particular behaved pretty cruel, but imagine this: If you had lived your whole live surrounded by creatures, not only born much more beautiful than you but free to do whatever they want with their life, while your only option to survive is to mimic them and hide your true self and now is your one chance to pay them back, how would you act?

 

Imo they are evil, but I think it is understandable, how they turned out the way they did.

 

Mate, that top part really comes across as more fandom speculated to make the Changeling's more sympathetic. There is no evidence that they've had to hide in Equestria, and it's canon that they have their own kingdom in the comics. And there is no evidence at all it's a revenge issue.

[Silverwisp the Bard 2,353]

Mate, that top part really comes across as more fandom speculated to make the Changeling's more sympathetic. There is no evidence that they've had to hide in Equestria, and it's canon that they have their own kingdom in the comics. And there is no evidence at all it's a revenge issue.

 

 

Well, it is fan speculation, since we know very little about the changelings. I like to think that the changelings, while undoubtedly sadistic, don't have much choice in the matter: Chrysalis made clear that feeding off love is what substains her subjects and Twilight stated specifically that changelings feed on ponies, which would be kinda hard to do in the open, hence the hiding. So in my opinion it is not unresonable that the changelings would hold a grudge against normal ponies.

And the comics aren't canon, so my guess is really as good as theirs.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Silverwisp the Bard

[Shanks 10,816]

As far as I see it, the Changeling species as whole? Yeah, sure. They're parasites. Parasites are universally hated in nature, because they do nothing but harm to those they feed on, but at the same time, it's just their unique way of surviving.

 

However, Chrysalis sure seemed to enjoy being a bitch, imprisoning people, etc. and took cleeeeear joy out of the whole thing. So while Changelings themselves are just following their leaders orders, and trying to obtain food, I think Chrysalis is anything but innocent or justifiable. She loved the fringe benefits of the power she got, and she loved it all on a personal level, outside the 'Oh, I'm just trying to feed my species is all :333333'.

 

Not necessarily, there are some parasites that have a symbiotic relationship with their host I know that is not the case with the changelings and ponies but there is nothing that says that would be entirely impossible. I think it is safe to say that Chrysalis is evil, she used food being one of the most basic needs of her subjects to control them and gain more power for herself. The changelings themselves are doing what they view as their only method of survival though I think some of them do share their queens cruelty.

[chrisalis1 1]

I agree with you 100%. As much as I like the changelings and Chrysalis, they did take sadistic pleasure in what they were doing. Though I also believe that a truce could have been made, or some sort of understanding.

[Scootalove 10,689]

The Changelings and Chrysalis, kind of did a good job trying to take over Equestria. They went after the one thing that brings, most of the ponies together. But, you know it could've used more work.

[Fluttermena 1,223]

Okay, here's my bit of fanon on the changelings, with obvious parallels to nazi germany. 

They can get love the old fashioned way, but the queens led them to believe that the ponies are arrogant and force the changelings to live in hiding. Their culture revolves around that victim complex which makes them demonize and treat ponies like prey, which in turn means that the ponies rightly consider them evil.

They thought they were justified, but that's no excuse to invade Equestria and take sadistic pleasure in harming the ponies.

 

As for the mechanics of changelings, I have a wild theory...

The changelings have some way to store the love they steal, so the empire can survive for long periods of time with it's subjects only rarely having to leave and live and feed amongst ponies.

Every thousand years, their reserves run out so they have to organise a large raid or harvest in which they openly invade a land rich in love. Those raids leave the target weak to all sorts of evil their love usually protects them from. Chrysalis' mother led the last harvest against the Crystal Empire, with the side effect of allowing Sombra and Discord to push their own agenda, and left Luna vulnerable to corruption.

 

A thousand years later, and Chrysalis is the one who plans the next harvest, only she's a batshit insane megalomaniac who wants to rule equestria and turn the ponies into her slaves. Her subjects obey her without question and well...we know that ended.

 

I'm not sure how the founding of Equestria factors in this however, maybe it was a previous harvest that caused the rivalry between the nations and led to the Windigos' invasion...

[Tall_But_Short_37 233]

Well when you're a creature that feeds off love, you're rarely going to be viewed as a friend by others outside your own species. I don't think the Changlings are explicitly evil, nor do I believe the ponies were wrong for defending themselves. The Changelings were simply doing what their nature and what their Queen tells them, and the ponies were just defending themselves, their friends, and their home.

 

However, I do wonder if there are any Changlings who wish they didn't have to feed off love, and that they could get along with the other ponies. They've been shown to have at least some sense of recognition for pony emotions and actions, such as when one was showing off its powers of transformation for Pinkie in the big battle.