Rainbow Dash's Athleticism in Question

[poniesforfun 716]

It's been bugging me for quite some time and yes I've heard the "logic does not apply to cartoons" thing. But Rainbow Dash just has nothing to fall back on nothing at all that makes her run almost as fast as Applejack and even have near same level strength as her. Let me give the skinny.

 

Rainbow Dash can fly. In order for her to do that she would have to have a similar anatomy of birds.

 

1. Of all the ponies Rainbow Dash is the least seen walking on her legs. This would mean her legs would have shriveled up in atrophy meaning lack of muscle and weak bones. There's no way Rainbow Dash's strength comes close to Applejack who's a pony that kicks trees to knock down apples all day long and stands around all day doing manual labor. Applejack's back and abdominal muscles would be stronger due to carrying apple baskets. Even Fluttershy walks more than Rainbow Dash does. Twilight Sparkle and Fluttershy would even be stronger than her especially when TS does run a lot on a crisis.

 

Why are our legs stronger than our arms? Because we are using them way more often and always carrying our weight around with them. Imagine if we run on fours, than our arms would be far stronger than they are now. In that sense a heavier person would have stronger legs than a lighter person. Rainbow Dash's legs would be only as strong as our arms. Try running as fast as you can balancing on just your hands and try beating someone running on their legs in a race, would prove to be difficult wouldn't it?

 

2. In order for Rainbow Dash to fly she would have to be smaller than the other ponies closer to a size to a bird. And the biggest kicker, Rainbow Dash's bones must be hollow in order to fly just like birds. Now this is the biggest kicker because even if RD did walk more often and worked her legs a lot she would still be unable to beat Applejack in hoof wrestling or a strength test because Applejack's bones are bigger, more sturdy and can hold more muscle plus Applejack might accidently break Rainbow Dash's bones if she's not too careful (the Iron Pony Competition is complete BS). To get the actual feel of the bones of Rainbow Dash get a chicken bone and try breaking it. Breaks very easily doesn't it?

 

In a running contest of course Applejack and Twilight Sparkle would have left her in the dust because once again Rainbow Dash would be limited to how fast a bird runs and they don't run very far. I suppose an ostrich could counter that argument however ostriches do not fly thus they rely on their legs all the time. And having weaker legs wouldn't help much.

Edited November 8, 2012 by poniesforfun

[longgone 873]

In the words of Discord, "What's the fun in making sense?" No, but seriously, she is basically flying about 85% of the time atleast. So your right, her legs should be very weak. But, maybe the aerodynamics of pegasi are different then our world's, so maybe they don't have to be the size of a bird or have hollow bones. ponyshrug.jpg

[Retro*Derpy 3,188]

It is a cartoon, but even talking logically, it would be phenomenal just to get a horse off the ground with it's own wings. If a horse had that amount of strength, I'm pretty sure her legs would be just as fit, and thus being proved when she stops the cart in the "mysterious mare do well." If she didn't have any leg strength, the cart would of flew from the edge. So even though on screen she does a lot of flying, I am sure she does some type of leg(s) workout. Though logically, it shouldn't happen.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Retro_Derpy

[Iron Wing 237]

Don´t try to explain physics within a cartoon. Also a pegasus pony isn´t a real creature. It´s a fantasy creation. So you can guess that everything about a pegasus pony is "just working". Perhaps Pegasus are just magical or something else, who cares?

 

 

 

[poniesforfun 716]

It just bugs me a lot to the point of closing my ears and eyes whenever I see Rainbow Dash performing some kind of athletic feat that isn't flying. Even with Superman there is an explanation on how he can fly. I feel this is one of the reasons I don't like Rainbow Dash as much as the others.

[Drago Whooves 4]

you realise of course her job contains alot of hoof action, and from what i've seen/heard, flight in equestria is a feet of magic rather then strenth or physics

Extibit A:

[NavelColt 22,881]

She beat Applejack in hoof wrestling, matched her in push-ups, among many, many other things, so the idea of this concept is more providing an explanation for when and how Dash exercises her obvious athleticism skills. In my opinion, I can totally see Dash coming home from work, or hanging out with her friends, and doing a series of exercises for her hooves and body, as well as her wings. From numerous very accomplished fanfics I've read, flying isn't just about wings. Pegasi use their tails as a rudder for direction, they need to be able to position their hooves in various ways while flying to maintain balance, etc. It may look like Dash doesn't/wouldn't exercise and maintain her physique outside her wings at a shallow glance, but I doubt that's honestly the case. I just don't think it's shown on screen because it adds nothing to the plot.

Edited November 9, 2012 by ~Chaotic Discord~

[kirbyboi 588]

Hmmph.....well, although Rainbow loves to fly and all, I'm pretty sure she does a lot of walking as well. I mean, RD is a very athletic pony ( along with AJ) and so wings probably aren't the only thing she focuses on. What you say makes sense, but I'm pretty sure she does some leg (or hoof) training as well.

 

 

 

 

But that's true, how can RD get such great leg strengh when she has no experience? Unless she does physical training for every part of her body, I'll understand.

[Dr. Vojislav Seselj 691]

This is MLP, dude. Not your ordinary educational show that makes sense.

But, she does kick clouds, so that might explain why her hoof strength is similar to AJ's.

Also,

 

She beat Applejack in hoof wrestling, matched her in push-ups, among many, many other things

 

Fall Weather Friends proves your point. :3

Edited November 8, 2012 by StefanSreto

[DoctorWhovian1902 596]

Ever heard of suspension of disbelief? When watching this show (or really any show, for that matter), especially one based on fantasy, it's best to follow that.

 

It was interesting to see it analyzed, though. I just always said "because magic" whenever something didn't make sense. Things tend to go smoother that way.

[PonyEcho 1,610]

ok

1. its a cartoon

2. there may be some part with in the continuity were rainbow dash could just go for a run

3. Pagasi are Mythical creatures... i.e none/never existent and even it there did there bodies would be way to heavy to fly, that why it always explained as magic in the media of thing so who is to say that flying isn't a full body work out for RD

 

its pretty pointless to try and deeply think about these things, kinda like how Fluttershy can catch up to RD in return to harmony part 2 while dragging a balloon with 4 ponies in it, but still have such a weak wing power score.

Edited November 8, 2012 by PonyEcho

[silvadel 1,393]

It is very simple -- her very strenuous exercise routines also include hoofwork. I mean if you want to build your cardiovascular you would be targeting everything, not just your wings, and RD is a perfectionist in the strictest sense of the word.

[Clarity 3,094]

It really isn't fair--AJ's nowhere as fast as RD, and RD's almost as strong as AJ.

 

I think Applejack should be stronger in the front hooves, too. She's been standing on them when bucking trees.

 

But apparently no one seems to bother, as everyone loves RD anyway.

[Johny Farenheit 34]

Cartoons can defy logic...also, i'm sure manipulating weather can take alot of work. Not that coulds are heavy...just that they're pure water vapor, and water is heavy. Logic!

[pinkiefan1287 610]

Well if you ask me, a pegasus front hoofs are just naturally powerful. Fall Weather Friends does show that RD was stronger in all of the areas involving the front part. I would like to bring up another pegasus that also has powerful front hoofs. Pound Cake has shown that he has very powerful near his front hoofs. The kid brook a bath room faust with no problem and he is only a mouth old. Now it could be that he has super strength, but from other episodes it looks like all pegasus are natural powerful.

[poniesforfun 716]

She beat Applejack in hoof wrestling, matched her in push-ups, among many, many other things, so the idea of this concept is more providing an explanation for when and how Dash exercises her obvious athleticism skills. In my opinion, I can totally see Dash coming home from work, or hanging out with her friends, and doing a series of exercises for her hooves and body, as well as her wings. From numerous very accomplished fanfics I've read, flying isn't just about wings. Pegasi use their tails as a rudder for direction, they need to be able to position their hooves in various ways while flying to maintain balance, etc. It may look like Dash doesn't/wouldn't exercise and maintain her physique outside her wings at a shallow glance, but I doubt that's honestly the case. I just don't think it's shown on screen because it adds nothing to the plot.

 

There is really no comparison between someone that exercises their legs but never uses them for everyday life and someone that uses their legs for everywhere they go. Remember Applejack has to carry her weight everywhere, in addition to that Applejack should be heavier for having solid bones so that weight she carries would strengthen her legs continuously. Rainbow Dash's wings would be strong obviously but her legs don't get that much of a workout. She would have to be working out every millisecond every episode to convince me she is as strong as Applejack. Human legs are far stronger than their arms. The amount of muscle and bone size is drastically different merely because we walk a lot. Try hitting a gym and compare how much you can benchpress with your arms and leg press your legs. You can work your arms out for years but they won't reach the same strength as your legs.

 

But yeah it's a cartoon I guess. >_<

Edited November 9, 2012 by poniesforfun

[dad george 105]

No because pegasi have a different bone structure, closer to that of birds. They have very light, hollow bones. What they lack in strenght they make up because they weigh less. Also, FiM is a slice of life style show. Just because we don't see RD running around on her legs doesn't mean she doesn't do it, AJ could be riding on Twillight all day while RD was running around and we wouldn't know it. Also, they are pastel collored cartoon horses.

[DashieDude 12]

Even though she's my favorite it doesn't make any real sense when she does do any of this but i would have to guess like some people already have it's magic.

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

One person on TV Tropes suggested that Dash is continually training to make up for past failures. For example in Ticket Master she couldn't beat Applejack at hoof wrestling so she trained and was able to thrash her several episodes later. Also she was hit by falling debris in May the Best Pet Win but was able to dodge it next episode.

 

As for the leg strength, perhaps flying involves more other muscles than we think?

 

In any case, my verdict is that just as we accept it when Pinkie does something impossible and random we should also accept it when Rainbow does something impossible and awesome.

Edited November 22, 2012 by DashForever

[silvadel 1,393]

There is one other thing with pegasi. Unlike other ponies -- when they are in flight, they have both front hooves free. This enables them to manipulate and carry objects with those legs. In essence a pegasus in a hover has a lot more freedom of motion than they do on the ground. I would figure that for rescue purposes even that a pegasus like RD would have to keep those front legs in shape so she could carry a falling pony.

[Comet Tail 808]

It's been bugging me for quite some time and yes I've heard the "logic does not apply to cartoons" thing. But Rainbow Dash just has nothing to fall back on nothing at all that makes her run almost as fast as Applejack and even have near same level strength as her. Let me give the skinny.

 

Rainbow Dash can fly. In order for her to do that she would have to have a similar anatomy of birds.

 

1. Of all the ponies Rainbow Dash is the least seen walking on her legs. This would mean her legs would have shriveled up in atrophy meaning lack of muscle and weak bones. There's no way Rainbow Dash's strength comes close to Applejack who's a pony that kicks trees to knock down apples all day long and stands around all day doing manual labor. Applejack's back and abdominal muscles would be stronger due to carrying apple baskets. Even Fluttershy walks more than Rainbow Dash does. Twilight Sparkle and Fluttershy would even be stronger than her especially when TS does run a lot on a crisis.

 

Why are our legs stronger than our arms? Because we are using them way more often and always carrying our weight around with them. Imagine if we run on fours, than our arms would be far stronger than they are now. In that sense a heavier person would have stronger legs than a lighter person. Rainbow Dash's legs would be only as strong as our arms. Try running as fast as you can balancing on just your hands and try beating someone running on their legs in a race, would prove to be difficult wouldn't it?

 

2. In order for Rainbow Dash to fly she would have to be smaller than the other ponies closer to a size to a bird. And the biggest kicker, Rainbow Dash's bones must be hollow in order to fly just like birds. Now this is the biggest kicker because even if RD did walk more often and worked her legs a lot she would still be unable to beat Applejack in hoof wrestling or a strength test because Applejack's bones are bigger, more sturdy and can hold more muscle plus Applejack might accidently break Rainbow Dash's bones if she's not too careful (the Iron Pony Competition is complete BS). To get the actual feel of the bones of Rainbow Dash get a chicken bone and try breaking it. Breaks very easily doesn't it?

 

In a running contest of course Applejack and Twilight Sparkle would have left her in the dust because once again Rainbow Dash would be limited to how fast a bird runs and they don't run very far. I suppose an ostrich could counter that argument however ostriches do not fly thus they rely on their legs all the time. And having weaker legs wouldn't help much.

 

Okay, first, the hoof-wrestling. RD puts her hooves forward in flight, essentially creating a drag-resistant aerospike. As a result of this, her forehooves would be taking an enormous amount of dynamic pressure from the air in front of her. Yes, even if she's subsonic (though it would, of course, be less). Not to mention - hold your arm up. Seems easy enough. Now do it for 20 minutes. Then you'll see why her flying becomes a workout for her hooves.

 

Also, notice her back legs are doing the same thing. Lie in bed, and raise your legs. Keep them that way for a few hours straight. Now you see why she works her leg muscles while flying.

 

The natural position for a horse's legs is down, in their standing position, like so:

 

 

That's relaxed for her legs. All four of the legs are perpendicular to her spine.

 

But, she doesn't fly that way. She actively lifts her legs into a position so that they run parallel to her spine, like so:

 

 

Note, even her hoof that's not parallel to her spine, is not relaxed, though normally all 4 of them are parallel when she's flying around, as opposed to hovering.

 

Now, hovering or flying slowly, her legs are relaxed, but she never does that for a prolonged period of time.

 

Also, she has some factors working for her:

 

She's lighter to fly, true, so weaker bones and lighter muscle; BUT:

Because she's lighter, it takes less force to push herself up with each step, so her legs don't need to be as strong. If you weigh half as much, for example, your legs only need to be half as strong to get the same effect. Gravity always has the same acceleration, but for lighter masses, it has less force.

 

Also, as for AJ being careful not to break RD's bones: anything AJ does will mostly be blunt impacts. A blunt impact compresses an area, deforming it, and if the deformation is too great, material breaks, and thus you get a broken bone.

 

The deformation is caused by one area moving, and another area not moving. Like if you push on one side of a piece of paper but hold the other side still, the paper changes shape. Thus, deformation, and damage. The "finger holding down the other side of the paper", in the case of a body getting a blunt impact, is inertia, and the bones holding still (which they do, because they're attached to other bones that are planted in the ground by friction. Even when you're running, your feet aren't sliding, so there's static friction there.)

 

Because RD is more lightweight, she has less inertia, and is more easily knocked off her hooves (sliding), so both of those things aren't as present. She may be weaker, sure, but when you just hit her with a blunt impact, she'll slide and move more, so she won't get hurt as much. I'd say the two roughly cancel out.

 

Now, you can break a chicken bone easily because you're gripping both sides. In that case, you literally have a finger keeping one side from moving, like the paper, so it's not just inertia and hoof-friction. In other words, it would be a lot easier to break RD's bones if you grabbed both ends and bent, but it wouldn't be much easier if you just hit RD with a blunt impact.

 

 

Now, to address some other points:

 

Twilight runs in emergencies, but those don't happen very often, it seems she spends most of her time sitting around and studying, so it's very likely she's not in very good shape, despite her anxious running in a lot of situations we see in episodes.

 

Also, RD almost certainly works out quiet a bit as others have mentioned...

 

And she doesn't have to be smaller like a bird. Airplanes are very large, and they fly just fine. It helps to be smaller*, but what really matters is lift-to-weight, or thrust-to-weight. In this case, the two are the same, her lift is thrust from her wings.

 

Can her wings generate more thrust than her weight? Obviously, yes. Because there are limits on what muscles can do (thrust), she's very likely much, much lighter than other non-pegasi ponies (weight).

 

*Being smaller only helps because lift comes from the surface area of a lifting surface. Lift is directly proportional to the surface area of the lifting surface: double the wing area, for example, and you double the lift (roughly/generally speaking). Weight is directly proportional to volume. Double the volume, and you double the weight. If you double the diameter of a sphere, you square it's area, but you cube it's weight. Granted, RD's not a sphere, but any shape follows the same principle: If you proportionally enlarge it, the weight/lift becomes larger than it is for the smaller shape, thus it's harder for it to fly. So, being smaller helps.

 

(Perfect example: a steady breeze can't keep a bucket-sized drop of water from falling. But it can keep tiny mist particles airborne; that's because of what I mentioned here.)

 

 

 

Anyways, do you mind if I quote this on my tumblr? (It's an asksciencepony tumblr)

 

It really isn't fair--AJ's nowhere as fast as RD, and RD's almost as strong as AJ.

 

I think Applejack should be stronger in the front hooves, too. She's been standing on them when bucking trees.

 

But apparently no one seems to bother, as everyone loves RD anyway.

 

Because of Applejack's motion, those front hooves won't be bearing much weight for long (put your hands on something in front of you - like a chair or desk or table or whatever, and jump. Your hands don't bear weight because you're freefalling when you jump. It looks like AJ does a very similar kind of "jumping" motion whenever she bucks a tree.) Not to mention, a buck lasts less than a second. That's not exactly a workout length

Edited November 23, 2012 by Mattlight

[Zygen 6,066]

I kinda think that the way Pegasi fly is literally by magic, I think Pegasi wings are meant to be magical. Sounds kinda stupid, but I've always thought of it that way.

Besides I don't know if even with wings and really hallow bones, would any pony ever be able to fly IRL.

As for the exercise thing. I think she probably exercises and stuff and does work outs when shes not busy doing other things. Plus I'm sure flying isn't as much wing as it looks. I think they just don't ever really have her working out or anything because it doesn't really ever seem necessary to add in as it takes up screentime.

 

You could always say that it is a cartoon and all , but I actually kinda like trying to wrap my mind around some of this stuff. And have it make some kinda sense.

But considering how differently Equestria works from our world, the aerodynamics of flight and stuff like that may be much different.

[poniesforfun 716]

Okay, first, the hoof-wrestling. RD puts her hooves forward in flight, essentially creating a drag-resistant aerospike. As a result of this, her forehooves would be taking an enormous amount of dynamic pressure from the air in front of her. Yes, even if she's subsonic (though it would, of course, be less). Not to mention - hold your arm up. Seems easy enough. Now do it for 20 minutes. Then you'll see why her flying becomes a workout for her hooves.

 

Also, notice her back legs are doing the same thing. Lie in bed, and raise your legs. Keep them that way for a few hours straight. Now you see why she works her leg muscles while flying.

 

The natural position for a horse's legs is down, in their standing position, like so:

 

 

That's relaxed for her legs. All four of the legs are perpendicular to her spine.

 

But, she doesn't fly that way. She actively lifts her legs into a position so that they run parallel to her spine, like so:

 

 

Note, even her hoof that's not parallel to her spine, is not relaxed, though normally all 4 of them are parallel when she's flying around, as opposed to hovering.

 

Now, hovering or flying slowly, her legs are relaxed, but she never does that for a prolonged period of time.

 

Also, she has some factors working for her:

 

She's lighter to fly, true, so weaker bones and lighter muscle; BUT:

Because she's lighter, it takes less force to push herself up with each step, so her legs don't need to be as strong. If you weigh half as much, for example, your legs only need to be half as strong to get the same effect. Gravity always has the same acceleration, but for lighter masses, it has less force.

 

Also, as for AJ being careful not to break RD's bones: anything AJ does will mostly be blunt impacts. A blunt impact compresses an area, deforming it, and if the deformation is too great, material breaks, and thus you get a broken bone.

 

The deformation is caused by one area moving, and another area not moving. Like if you push on one side of a piece of paper but hold the other side still, the paper changes shape. Thus, deformation, and damage. The "finger holding down the other side of the paper", in the case of a body getting a blunt impact, is inertia, and the bones holding still (which they do, because they're attached to other bones that are planted in the ground by friction. Even when you're running, your feet aren't sliding, so there's static friction there.)

 

Because RD is more lightweight, she has less inertia, and is more easily knocked off her hooves (sliding), so both of those things aren't as present. She may be weaker, sure, but when you just hit her with a blunt impact, she'll slide and move more, so she won't get hurt as much. I'd say the two roughly cancel out.

 

Now, you can break a chicken bone easily because you're gripping both sides. In that case, you literally have a finger keeping one side from moving, like the paper, so it's not just inertia and hoof-friction. In other words, it would be a lot easier to break RD's bones if you grabbed both ends and bent, but it wouldn't be much easier if you just hit RD with a blunt impact.

 

 

Now, to address some other points:

 

Twilight runs in emergencies, but those don't happen very often, it seems she spends most of her time sitting around and studying, so it's very likely she's not in very good shape, despite her anxious running in a lot of situations we see in episodes.

 

Also, RD almost certainly works out quiet a bit as others have mentioned...

 

And she doesn't have to be smaller like a bird. Airplanes are very large, and they fly just fine. It helps to be smaller*, but what really matters is lift-to-weight, or thrust-to-weight. In this case, the two are the same, her lift is thrust from her wings.

 

Can her wings generate more thrust than her weight? Obviously, yes. Because there are limits on what muscles can do (thrust), she's very likely much, much lighter than other non-pegasi ponies (weight).

 

*Being smaller only helps because lift comes from the surface area of a lifting surface. Lift is directly proportional to the surface area of the lifting surface: double the wing area, for example, and you double the lift (roughly/generally speaking). Weight is directly proportional to volume. Double the volume, and you double the weight. If you double the diameter of a sphere, you square it's area, but you cube it's weight. Granted, RD's not a sphere, but any shape follows the same principle: If you proportionally enlarge it, the weight/lift becomes larger than it is for the smaller shape, thus it's harder for it to fly. So, being smaller helps.

 

(Perfect example: a steady breeze can't keep a bucket-sized drop of water from falling. But it can keep tiny mist particles airborne; that's because of what I mentioned here.)

 

 

 

Anyways, do you mind if I quote this on my tumblr? (It's an asksciencepony tumblr)

 

 

 

Because of Applejack's motion, those front hooves won't be bearing much weight for long (put your hands on something in front of you - like a chair or desk or table or whatever, and jump. Your hands don't bear weight because you're freefalling when you jump. It looks like AJ does a very similar kind of "jumping" motion whenever she bucks a tree.) Not to mention, a buck lasts less than a second. That's not exactly a workout length

 

AJ would still win in all strength bouts and in running. Sure she won't break RD's limbs but RD would be shoved around easily just like that in tug of war or in hoof wrestling. AJ does work out every single day by labor and with the lack of technology I would assume she would be far above the strength of an average pony. AJ pulls carts, chases and herds cattle (not to mention she also pulls huge cows with a lasso) and bucks trees knocking apples down. And who is not to say Applejack doesn't work out when she's relaxing as she too was throwing horseshoes with RD. I haven't really seen RD workout other than during Hurricane Fluttershy anyway she's usually flying or relaxing. RD's legs would of undergone some serious atrophy for one thing.

Edited November 23, 2012 by poniesforfun

[Comet Tail 808]

AJ would still win in all strength bouts and in running. Sure she won't break RD's limbs but RD would be shoved around easily just like that in tug of war or in hoof wrestling. AJ does work out every single day by labor and with the lack of technology I would assume she would be far above the strength of an average pony. AJ pulls carts, chases and herds cattle (not to mention she also pulls huge cows with a lasso) and bucks trees knocking apples down. And who is not to say Applejack doesn't work out when she's relaxing as she too was throwing horseshoes with RD. I haven't really seen RD workout other than during Hurricane Fluttershy anyway she's usually flying or relaxing. RD's legs would of undergone some serious atrophy for one thing.

 

...

 

...

 

Did you read my post?

 

To really accurately tell, we'd have to do lots of math, with equations that I don't think even exist. I answered why AJ would be on par with RD in running and hoof-wrestling (hoof wrestling depends on strength, not inertia), and why her legs wouldn't have atrophied.

 

We haven't seen AJ OR RD work out. We have, however, seen Fluttershy and some other ponies work out in "Hurricane Fluttershy". Working out is far more in RD's personality than AJ's, anyways. AJ would probably think it's kinda useless, given she gets plenty of workout with her chores. Remember when RD shouted "Stampede!" in Applebuck Season, AJ was just relaxing under a tree. She seems to do that a lot, actually. She was doing it even during the competition.

 

And you're right about the tug of war. But Rainbow Dash would've lost the tug-of-war, if it weren't for her wings. She didn't fall in because of her wings, not because she held her ground.

[AustralianFries 213]

Wait, so let me get this straight.

You're questioning Rainbow Dash's leg strength in a show full of:

Talking ponies, dragons, ect

Magic Unicorns

An evil villain that is part snake, tiger, hawk, and other animals

Crystal ponies

A world that actually has friendship and harmony

An entire castle that is literally on the side of a cliff, and regardless to weight still doesn't fall

Pegasisisis that control the weather

 

And you choose to pick out the fact that Rainbows legs might not be as strong as other ponies? Lolwtf