Theory "It's About Time" Questions and Theory

[XUNUSEDXXX 3,459]

Old episode, I know, but some of these thoughts have been in my brain for a while so I decided to post them.

 

If you need a refresher, the episode "It's About Time" is:

 

"After receiving a warning from her future self, Twilight drives herself crazy in an attempt to avoid an unspecified upcoming catastrophic disaster."

 

As you know, Twilight was in her study and she was visited by a future version of her sometime <7 days in the future ("next Tuesday morning"). Here are a few questions:

 

Where in the the whole loop of Twilight visiting herself start and why? What caused the "original" Twilight to go back into the future and tell the past Twilight about some "upcoming disaster?" The first Twilight to ever do such a thing would have no reason to go back into the past to tell her past self not to worry about next Tuesday morning, as that original Twilight was never warned by any of her future selves.

 

Are we watching a past version of the show? Clearly we aren't watching the most modern version of Twilight if some future version of herself had visited her. Here's a quote that Pinkie Pie specifically said after the Twilight we were watching the whole show went and visited her past self in the end of the episode:

 

"Aww, don't worry about it! It's past Twilight's problem now."

 

If you think about it, at the beginning of the show, we were watching past Twilight. So, repeating myself again, does that mean that we are watching a past Twilight rather than a present Twilight? Have all the episodes that we've seen in S3 (and possible even after that) already happened for the present Twilight?

 

Here are my thoughts:

 

Though the developers never intended this, we might be watching a past version of Twilight because the future version of Twilight might not be the same dorky, young pony that has five other friends. The present Twilight could be a middle aged pony doing her work and perhaps maybe have split up from her Mane 6 group to go on and live her life (because, most of the time in real life, people who were your friends at a young age aren't so much anymore due to moving away for college, jobs, etc.) That Twilight might not be a fun pony to watch a show about. This point also questions how far into the future from the Twilight we are watching is the present Twilight. How many times has the "going back into the past" spell been performed by this pony?

Let's assume that this process happens every week. There are roughly 52 weeks in a year. So, the whole process of "future Twilight visits past Twilight, past Twilight worries about the whole thing until Tuesday morning when she finds out that it was all for nothing" happens 52 times per year. Essentially, if it's been a year since the present Twilight has done this process, we're currently watching the past 52nd version of Twilight. That's a big number. Now, Imagine if it's been, say, 3 years since the original Twilight had first gone back into the past. If that was so, we're currently watching the 156th past version of Twilight, which is unreal. It can go on and on and on.

 

Of course, this also sprouts questions about general time travel: What happens to the other ponies of Equestria who aren't time traveling with Twi? When present Twilight goes into the past, are the present ponies suddenly gone? If you were to go into their shoes, what would happen to you the moment Twilight goes into the past? Are your current memories erased up until the point in time that Twilight traveled back into?

 

--

 

These are just my thoughts on the whole matter. What do you think about the subject? Do you have a different idea of how the whole process went down?

Edited January 13, 2013 by Scootabloom

[FizzyImp 1,838]

Past Twilight being stuck in an infinite loop sounds strangely entertaining

It'd be weird to see a bit of 'Back to the Future' in there.
Say if Present Twilight goes back to warn Past Twilight, and she was successful, would the Present Twilight cause a paradox and be erased from time?

[Victor van Dort 202]

This questions time travel in general. I theorized with this idea, and came to a conclusion: There is no "original" Twilight or "original" event that occurred. Think of it like the universe: it is just a natural phenomenon that the creation of was just always inevitable, the universe being the event.

[kain17 88]

i think what its trying to say is that even if you go back in time you cant change the past. what has happened is lock in the past you can merely help it go as the past went  yes if twilight when back and was able to warn herself it would create a paradox but thats only if twilight is going back to her past. have you ever heard of the multiple worlds theory? time travel such a fun topic to think about

[Jadefire 2,796]

She performed a stable-time-loop and returned to the future while she was talking. She inadvertantly performed exactly what she saw Futuretwi do several days before. So, no paradox.

[XUNUSEDXXX 3,459]

She performed a stable-time-loop and returned to the future while she was talking. She inadvertantly performed exactly what she saw Futuretwi do several days before. So, no paradox.

 

But what about, at the end of the episode, the past Twilight she talked to just like what happened at the beginning of the episode? What happened to that Twilight? Is it not the same thing that happened to the Twilight we saw in the beginning of the episode?

 

i think what its trying to say is that even if you go back in time you cant change the past. what has happened is lock in the past you can merely help it go as the past went

 

You can make a comparison on that subject to Greek myths specifically including fate. Example, Oedipus. He had known the fate that he was going to kill his father and marry his mother, yet what he did to try to prevent it inevitably caused the whole thing to happen.

[Jadefire 2,796]

But what about, at the end of the episode, the past Twilight she talked to just like what happened at the beginning of the episode? What happened to that Twilight? Is it not the same thing that happened to the Twilight we saw in the beginning of the episode?

That's the same Twilight that we saw at the beginning of the episode. After the conversation, she went on to do what she did during the course of the episode.

 

You're confusing yourself by making it far more complicated than it actually is. There's only one Twilight. She was minding her own business until she got a visit from her future self. She panicked, and went about the course of the episode. At the end she went back in time and talked to herself (this time she is now Future Twilight), and then returned to the future.

[XUNUSEDXXX 3,459]

That's the same Twilight that we saw at the beginning of the episode. After the conversation, she went on to do what she did during the course of the episode.

 

You're confusing yourself by making it far more complicated than it actually is. There's only one Twilight. She was minding her own business until she got a visit from her future self. She panicked, and went about the course of the episode. At the end she went back in time and talked to herself (this time she is now Future Twilight), and then returned to the future.

But how is the Twilight "going on to do what she did during the course of the episode" when there's already the Twilight we saw at the end of the episode?

 

Let me post the process:

Future Twilight visits past Twilight > past Twilight freaks out and tries to fix > After Tuesday morning, Past Twilight visits second Past Twilight and warns her > First Past Twilight returns to her own present time.

 

If you say that "she went on to do what she did during the course of the episode," then, if there's only one Twilight, how is she able to do that when there's also the Twilight that returned to her own present time?

 

Also, one of the question still hangs in the air: Why did the original Twilight go back in the past in the first place and tell the "Past Twilight" that there was a disaster coming up?

Edited January 13, 2013 by Scootabloom

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

This is an Ontological Paradox. It's been done in many different shows, and with similar results. I'd suggest you read the entry on TV Tropes, but that might ruin your life, since you'd never leave that site again.

 

 

 

You can make a comparison on that subject to Greek myths specifically including fate. Example, Oedipus. He had known the fate that he was going to kill his father and marry his mother, yet what he did to try to prevent it inevitably caused the whole thing to happen.

But that isn't time travel, it's prophecy, a "Self-Fufilling Prophecy" specifically. Quite different in nature, and also has a TV Tropes page.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Full Spectrum

[XUNUSEDXXX 3,459]

But that isn't time travel, it's prophecy, a "Self-Fufilling Prophecy" specifically. Quite different in nature, and also has a TV Tropes page.

 

I wasn't talking about time travel when I referenced Greek Mythology. I was talking about how, in most cases, you can't change the past.

[Victor van Dort 202]

But how is the Twilight "going on to do what she did during the course of the episode" when there's already the Twilight we saw at the end of the episode?

 

Also, one of the question still hangs in the air: Why did the original Twilight go back in the past in the first place?

Maybe she thought that FutureTwi already went back to mess up PastTwi's week, and was about to reassure her that nothing would happen. Even so, the question still remains somewhat.

[decoherence 183]

I think Twilight has always gone back in time and always will go back in time. From her perspective it will only happen once (or twice, once as the observer and once as the subject) and will not impact anypony else (except spike and pinkie, and the only impact it would have is that they'd know it happened.)

 

If you're looking for some basic causality, I would suggest a combination of the uncertainly principal and a many-worlds theory of your choice (i like m-theory.) That said, I don't think basic causality is required if it's been happening in perpetuity. Perhaps there is a boundary condition but beyond that point the question would become meaningless. Twilight lives on a brane where it is possible to go back in time thus, according to uncertainty, many worlds and anthropic principle, it is inevitable that you would eventually observe her doing so.

 

PS i have no idea what i'm talking about

Edited January 13, 2013 by decoherence

[XUNUSEDXXX 3,459]

I think Twilight has always gone back in time and always will go back in time. From her perspective it will only happen once (or twice, once as the observer and once as the subject) and will not impact anypony else (except spike and pinkie, and the only impact it would have is that they'd know it happened.)

 

From her perspective, it doesn't impact anybody else, really, yes. But that wasn't the question. How does this impact the other ponies perspectives? What happens, in their eyes, when Twilight goes back in time?

[decoherence 183]

From her perspective, it doesn't impact anybody else, really, yes. But that wasn't the question. How does this impact the other ponies perspectives? What happens, in their eyes, when Twilight goes back in time?

 

Well, Spike and Pinkie would see her go back in time. She'd be gone for however long, then come back. For them, this would also only happen once (though it would actually be happening in perpetuity, in my theory.) I don't see that there would be any other affect. This is why I alluded to many-worlds. There are an infinite number of twilights and everyone else but they are all isolated. Except for twilight who gets herself in a loop (or more accurately, is part of a perpetual cascade of twilights) but this has no bearing on anyone but her.

[Fanglore 140]

Maybe she thought that FutureTwi already went back to mess up PastTwi's week, and was about to reassure her that nothing would happen. Even so, the question still remains somewhat.

 

the main thing that tells me otherwise is that as soon as she realizes she is back in the future she says she cant believe she did that. this tells me that she says that she knows she is now the future twilight who went back to worn herself. not to mention spike clearly says that he is now future spike not a different spike but the same spike at a different time.

[DrUnderachiever 25]

It goes like this: "next Tuesday" Twilight has to travel back to see "original" Twilight, otherwise "original" Twilight can never become "next Tuesday" Twilight.  If Twilight never travels back to see herself, she'll never set off the chain of events that causes her to find and use the time travel spell.  If she had instead not gone back to try and warn herself, she would never have done all the things that caused her to be in the Starswirl the Bearded wing of the archives.

I could also say that when Twilight travels back in time, she actually ceases to exist and is replaced by a duplicate of herself that continues on from there.  But that's less like My Little Pony and more like Primer, so forget I said that.  What I always wondered is why she couldn't just have somepony else go back for her.

Oh! And also:

Twilight has ice cream in her house?  I can't remember seeing a freezer in her house.  In fact, I can't see any electrical at all!  What gives?

[XUNUSEDXXX 3,459]

not to mention spike clearly says that he is now future spike not a different spike but the same spike at a different time.

That was a mere joke rather than Spike acknowledging that he was an actual future self of his past form. Like, I could say that my future self will get up and sit down in ten seconds and that happens and say I am my future self (future self from the perspective of 10 seconds ago), but it's not creating any loopholes or anything.

 

It goes like this: "next Tuesday" Twilight has to travel back to see "original" Twilight, otherwise "original" Twilight can never become "next Tuesday" Twilight.  If Twilight never travels back to see herself, she'll never set off the chain of events that causes her to find and use the time travel spell.  If she had instead not gone back to try and warn herself, she would never have done all the things that caused her to be in the Starswirl the Bearded wing of the archives.

That's basically putting the question that I had into a more detailed fashion. How did she actually start all of this? It would be unreasonable, knowing Twilight, to go back into the past for no reason and warn her past self about the upcoming Tuesday.

[Fanglore 140]

That was a mere joke rather than Spike acknowledging that he was an actual future self of his past form. Like, I could say that my future self will get up and sit down in ten seconds and that happens and say I am my future self (future self from the perspective of 10 seconds ago), but it's not creating any loopholes or anything.

 

 

but its the same for twilight she is the same twilight as the one from the past just a week in the future. btw for all you know i could be you a week in the future trying to make sure i stand up in 10 seconds so that i can avoid my computer shorting out and sending a large enough shock though my body to shoot me though time.

 

lol time travle is fun to think about

[XUNUSEDXXX 3,459]

but its the same for twilight she is the same twilight as the one from the past just a week in the future.

 

It's different for her. Twilight initiated time travel and visited her past self, and even at the end of the episode, she still isn't her future self, she's her present self of her time. Her real present self is, if you use the logic in the OP, possibly many years in the future.

[decoherence 183]

That's basically putting the question that I had into a more detailed fashion. How did she actually start all of this? It would be unreasonable, knowing Twilight, to go back into the past for no reason and warn her past self about the upcoming Tuesday.

 

 

 

That question is wrapped up in the nature of time which is why I half-joking suggested combining three cosmological theories. In short,

 

uncertainty (indirectly) says random stuff can happen

many-worlds theories (some of them) say everything that can happen, does happen

anthropic principle says that you would not be able to observe it happening if the conditions for it to happen didn't exist

 

basically i'm trying to apply cosmology to cartoon logic and probably not even doing a very good job at it. But I've yet to see another suggestion about a root cause.

 

The other thing I suggested was that it has been happening in perpetuity. Then we get the question 'is there such a thing as free will?' (my money is on 'no' btw, but how could we ever tell?)

 

 

Her real present self is, if you use the logic in the OP, possibly many years in the future.

 

 

The question is much simpler if you consider that there doesn't need to be a 'real present self.' I guess that's the crux of what I'm getting at

Edited January 13, 2013 by decoherence

[Fanglore 140]

she still isn't her future self, she's her present self of her time.

 

but as she chose to go back in time. she became the same future self she saw in the past. what im saying is she saw her self in the future and then as she got to the future she showed herself to her past. its like looking in a mirror. its sill you but its the past you as it takes time for light to bounce of you and then the mirror then reach you. you are looking at your past self but your still the same person

[CloudFyre 848]

Here's some fun theory: How would you ever start a chain reaction like this?

Everything originates from the current timeline. To make a basic example:
1) You do something currently.

2) You find out an hour from now that it was a mistake.

3) You jump back in time to warn your past self.

However, at this point, process number one (1) has now changed. You do not proceed to #2, and thus you could not have proceeded to #3, where you go back and warn your past self. Thus, the past self never goes into the future.

Long story short: It's a mutually exclusive event that could never occur in the first place. Looking back on the event after everything had occurred, you would not be visited by your past self, and would simply "choose" another course of action, without knowing the reason why.

[Fanglore 140]

Everything originates from the current timeline. To make a basic example: 1) You do something currently. 2) You find out an hour from now that it was a mistake. 3) You jump back in time to warn your past self.

 

to make this work it would have to be your future self that tells you what you did was wrong and that makes you try to go back and stop yourself in turn telling youself it was wrong 

[Lightning Fluttershy 1,844]

This is something that's been nagging at the back of my mind ever since I watched the episode. The first time I watched it this was the first question to roll through my head.

 

You're reasoning is sound and logical however you never answered the first question. Why did Twilight have to go back in time in the first place?

 

Could it have been a prank on her past self? Twilight finding the time travel spell books and deciding to scare her past self by telling her there would be a disaster, thus starting a chain of never ending Twilight's going back in time to warn their past selves. She doesn't seem like the joking type though.

 

Unless there really was a disaster originally and Twilight really did have to warn her past self, but when she went back to warn past Twilight, future Twilight somehow stopped the disaster from happening herself. This would work as there would be no longer a disaster inbound, just an infinite number of Twilight's heading back to warn their past selves.

[Fanglore 140]

You're reasoning is sound and logical however you never answered the first question. Why did Twilight have to go back in time in the first place?

 

it was her own attempt to stop the chain that started it. as she when back to tell her self not to do anything. it caused the loop to start and seeing as they are the same twilight they will make the same choice to try and stop the chain. thus causing to happen in the first place.