S03:E10 - Keep Calm and Flutter On

[Guest]

Has anyone noticed that Fluttershy promised not to use her Element against Discord if he changed everything at Sweet Apple Acres back to normal, but then in the end when Discord has been "converted" Twilight says something along the lines of "in case he goes back we have the Elements" even though it wouldn't work if Fluttershy can't use hers.

[longgone 873]

I really liked the episode, lots of humor in it that I would expect from Discord. I'm glad he's not completely converted, he's still going to use his powers for pranking/something of the sort. But yeah, the ending did seem a bit rushed. 8.5/10 for me.

[Vedana Purity 221]

Love the idea od Discord becoming Good slowly, but the ending could of been better.

 

For starters, at the end maybe Discord and Celestia could apologize to one another of the mistakes they made in the past, and possible share an emotional hug? That would have been a better ending.

 

Love it really, hope to see Discord being on the good side, but yet cause some funny pranks.

 

2 villains got turned good, now for Queen Chrysalis to go 9since king Sombra went kaboom in the crystal empire episode.)

Edited January 22, 2013 by Vedana Purity

[Lupus 127]

That was a sweet episode, filled with lots of lovely images of Fluttershy. I'm not sure how objectively "good" an episode it was, but it wasn't annoying. I did think John de Lancie's voice was a bit off tho, and had to check the credits to make sure it was actually him speaking and not an impersonator!  

[Chickey 383]

I don't think we can -truly- give judgements about Discord until we see him again in the future. Celestia said, and I quote, "Get him to use magic obediently, of his own free will." Ergo, they're not going to 'have him on a leash' as some of the episode haters thus far have said. All this boils down to is them making a relationship with Discord, so that he'll stop attempting to take over Equestria with chaos. That doesn't for one moment mean he's going to stop pulling pranks, stop being reminiscent of Q from Star Trek or stop being chaotic. Chaos is inherently neutral, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

As I've said, i'm not entirely hating it to the point of complete disgust. I agree with the "That doesn't for one moment mean he's going to stop pulling pranks, stop being re miniscent of Q from Star Trek or stop being chaotic. Chaos is inherently neutral, it doesn't have to be one or the other." But I just think that what was done shouldn't of happened, and he felt better as a character when he was villain.

 

Just pulling pranks and such doesn't really fit in my mind for a character such as the caliber of a Draconequus known as the "God of Chaos"

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

As I've said, i'm not entirely hating it to the point of complete disgust. I agree with the "That doesn't for one moment mean he's going to stop pulling pranks, stop being re miniscent of Q from Star Trek or stop being chaotic. Chaos is inherently neutral, it doesn't have to be one or the other." But I just think that what was done shouldn't of happened, and he felt better as a character when he was villain.

 

Just pulling pranks and such doesn't really fit in my mind for a character such as the caliber of a Draconequus known as the "God of Chaos"

Well, yes and no. He isn't the "God of Chaos," he is the "Mischievous Spirit of Chaos and Disharmony" so the pulling pranks part is definitely in the job description. I just don't really agree with people who say "he isn't good or evil, only chaotic". What makes him evil in my mind is not the fact that he has world-warping powers (the Chaos part) or even that he used them to remove the threat against him (the Mane 6 and the EoH) by turning them against each other, (the Disharmony part) but the sheer delight he took in doing it, even cheering when he realized he had broken Twilight's will. That was pretty sadistic.

[poniesforfun 716]

It's interesting to note that Fluttershy was the only one that frustrated Discord in Season 1.

 

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

It's interesting to note that Fluttershy was the only one that frustrated Discord in Season 1.

 

That's true, but once her eyes went all hypno-toad, she was just as brainwashed as everyone... the one who resisted the best is actually Rarity. Rarity turned away after her eyes went hypno-toad, and she even started to walk away from the diamond, her eyes back to normal. Only then did she look back and lose control.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Full Spectrum

[DerpyFanatic 114]

 but the ending could of been better.

 

Could HAVE. COULD HAVE. COULD HAVE. COULD HAVE!

 

It's not "could of", it's "could've", which is short for COULD HAVE. 

 

LRN2PROPERENGLISH AND GET IT RIGHT.

[Vedana Purity 221]

Could HAVE. COULD HAVE. COULD HAVE. COULD HAVE!

 

It's not "could of", it's "could've", which is short for COULD HAVE. 

 

LRN2PROPERENGLISH AND GET IT RIGHT.

 

...Why are you complaining is it that offensive to you?

[immblueversion 331]

So, did the villain's change of heart seem out of the blue?

 

Well, did that stop "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" from being a masterpiece?

 

I think that sums up my thoughts on the episode quite nicely.

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

Also, right now I really want to know what Celestia's relationship with Discord was like before the whole turning him to stone thing. Maybe I'm just over analyzing, but at the end, while the others were showing embarrassment, Celestia seemed to be expressing guilt. I know I'm not the only one who noticed this, and I don't think she's showing the same expression as the others. It makes me wonder if Celestia was once in the position to have been Discord's friend, but rejected him.

That was sort of explained way back in "Return of Harmony". Celestia said that she and Luna saw how he was treating the ponies when he was in power and use the Elements to turn him to stone. According to that, they made no attempt to reason with him or try to befriend him, they simply blasted him. That's what she looks guilty about, never giving Big D a chance.

 

 

The episode felt really short... But it was REALLY good

May I inform you that LOOKING at the 4th wall isn't the same as BREAKING the 4th wall?

Would be mighty shitty if a wall would break if you looked at it.

 

 

He talks to the audience. That is breaking the 4th wall, by definition. If he had just looked, it would be an "aside glance", but in this case he is clearly addressing us. And it's a metaphorical wall anyway.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Full Spectrum

[Silver Boulder 123]

Saw the episode, heehee...worth watching the episode alone just to hear, "Doh alright...friendshipismagic" XD oh discord you

[Mu Nova 66]

I made a decent-enough sized post back on page five, but seeing as how this thread's initial explosion of activity has finally calmed down with the day at an end, I feel like I might as well attempt to make a larger post. Though I may not have much, if any competition, I have a reputation to uphold as Best Discord Fan

 

Discord represents chaos and disharmony. From what we saw in The Return of Harmony, he was a trickster spirit who had next to no morality or scruples. He had fun and if you didn't like his fun you were shit outta luck. He changed the landscape, weather, and even the buildings and animals themselves. Most of all he 'Discordified' the Mane Six. We were generally lead in the direction of believing that he was more or less vacant of feelings. Being a spirit/creature of chaos, that seemed to make perfect sense. When Return of Harmony came to a close, everyone minus people who just don't like Discord as a villain by principle were completely satisfied with the two-parter. They were content and could move on.

 

Now there's this episode. In which Discord, this seemingly un-feeling character who was supposed to be carefree and only interested in his chaotic motives, is suddenly exposed to the idea of 'being reformed', and 'gaining a friend'. Now, I get that the episode felt rushed, frankly I think they could have done a hell of a job if this had been a two-parter and fit more time to develop the 'realization that friendship isn't so bad/sadness at the thought of losing it' theme, but all in all, Discord having feelings, Discord being capable of caring is not at all far-fetched to me. Discord was never a villain like Chrysalis or Sombra, there was in fact an entire side of the fandom who didn't even call him a true villain, but just a chaotic entity that did what it wanted, and everyone who tried to get in its' way got discorded, as the creature's defense mechanism. The idea of him being reformed makes more sense than any of the other main villains we've seen, frankly.

 

When you're a nearly omnipotent being who can warp reality, and are also in the predisposition of enjoying chaos and disorder, something that all creatures generally dislike, you're never, ever going to have bonds, of any kind. Discord had absolutely no contemplation of what friendship felt like due to his nature, so obviously his personality and attitude are shaped to what he was predetermined to enjoy. Since he had no regard for feelings of others or his own, life was a giant plaything, amusement his one and only goal.

 

I guess what I'm attempting to say is the show is giving Discord character development, by way of showing he does in fact have feelings. He just never used them or had any reason to use them before. I get that the show rushed it a bit, and I get that some people are simply not going to like the fact that his character is being developed this way, but again, like I went into detail in this topic, if Discord were to remain a villain, he'd be doomed to eternity, stuck in the same never ending feedback loop until the show decided to not use him anymore.

 

Some may feel some growth pains from how his character has initially taken this rather sudden direction, and that's fine, everyone's got their opinion and preferences. As for me, I will support Discord's character no matter what happens to him, and I'm eager to see what happens next. And, you can bet there will be a 'next'. Part of why I'm not even slightly bothered by the fact that the climax and ending felt a little rushed was because it's plainly obvious to see he's going to show up again. Even if only for cameo appearances here and there, with only one main inclusion in the future, I don't doubt we'll be seeing Discord again. They wouldn't decide to reform him if they didn't have plans for his character in the future.

 

Especially considering Celestia has 'uses' for him and his powers now that he isn't going to try and take over.

I like you. Thumbs up to everything you said. And on that thread you made, too--though I read that back when you made it. lol

 

I've forgotten if I made a post or not, but mainly all I have to say now is that I don't like the "oh, I cast a spell to protect the Elements" bit. I believe Polsky's known to write DEM sorts of plot devices, like in Too Many Pinkie Pies, and I'd say this is another one of them.

However, if the elements were only protected by the special door in RtH, then I see nothing stopping Discord from just warping them out of it. In which case, Celestia having such a spell isn't so bad. However, the reform spell kinda makes up for that... lol (though that may have been a spoof/joke. maybe)

 

But overall, though I feel there could've been better pacing, and less holdup from AJ's dam issue, I'm quite happy with how things turned out. Discord indicates he's not suddenly a total goody two-shoes, so it seems to me he's going to be a chaotic neutral character working on the side of good, and therefore I am satisfied. And the episode itself was fun, of course. Can't get enough Discord.

[DerpJoe 6]

I lol'd when he got sadface at the thought of losing Fluttershy as a friend. The aspect of chaos; scared to lose a friend? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2013 by DerpJoe

[RosenRot 5]

Many people also mirrored my thoughts..  In short, I'm pleased with the episode.  When I first heard the rumours that Discord was to be reformed, I was like "Noooooo, whhhhyyyy??!  He wasn't all that 'evil' to begin with, just chaotic.", but then saw the episode and was... well, it was believable.  Discord was great, simply awesome actually, and the way his "reformation" came about did actually kinda work (particularly with the line "I'll use my magic for good instead of evil .... *most* of the time.").  But, I do indeed agree that it was quite rushed, it really could've been better as a two-parter.  Midway into the plot - that is, three quarters of the episode - I had to remind myself that it was a ONE parter.

 

I really hope that they do indeed make him a more regularly character, and that they show him not always being good - for example, living in Celestia's palace, in his own room, where everything's totally wacky and he may have some crazy "housepets", or when somepony walks in they are effected by his reality (losing wings or horns, or whatever); and someone points this out that he was *supposed* to be behaving himself, and he says something like how Celestia told him to make himself at home.

 

I dunno, my last thought after the episode was: This CANNOT be the end, this now has to be an ongoing plot!

[Cantankerous 106]

It's a fair question why this wasn't a two-parter. Only season premiers and finales are split into two parts, why not save this story for the finale? Surely it's grand enough a premise. While I didn't find Discord's reformation all that forceful it is admittedly the episode's one significant flaw. What I want to know is if Teddy Antonio and Dave Posly could have made this a two-parter if they'd wanted or if it was someone else's decision. If the latter that means the episode's one flaw is something that neither writer could have realistically avoided.

Edited January 25, 2013 by ByTheTides

[NavelColt 22,877]

It's a fair question why this wasn't a two-parter. Only season premiers and finales are split into two parts, why not save this story for the finale? Surely it's grand enough a premise. While I didn't find Discord's reformation all that forceful it is admittedly the episode's one significant flaw. What I want to know is if Teddy Antonio and Dave Posly could have made this a two-parter if they'd wanted or if it was someone else's decision. If the latter that means the episode's one flaw is something that neither writer could have realistically avoided.

 

I too think the rushed feeling would be gone if it had been a two-parter, but also remember things can feel dragged out, as well. I've heard numerous EQD and Youtube analysts talk about how they felt there, additionally, wasn't enough content to stretch this out for another twenty minutes. Only the ending felt rushed, it wasn't the entire episode. All they'd need was another five to ten minutes to elaborate on Discord's realization that friends did matter to him.

 

It's too bad they can't have 'specials', that are half an hour long and not twenty minutes. That time frame would have been perfect for this episode.

[hawkflame 3,310]

I will give this episode another shot in a few days once my head's a little more clear, in some part to try and see what others are seeing, but more to sort out whether the problems are really based in the episode itself, or my own expectations. 

 

And today I did just that.  In fact, I also watched Return of Harmony Part 1 right before it to get a little more perspective on Discord's character. 

 

I think I might have to revise my stance on this episode a little bit. 

 

First of all, watching "Return of Harmony part 1" again objectively, I think I may have overplayed the idea that he's just "evil".   Most of his antics were basically odd annoyances- chocolate rain, cotton candy clouds, turning corn fields into popcorn, etc.  Now granted on a large scale would admittedly be hellish, but whether or not he was hurting others wasn't paramount.  He just didn't care.  But that's not to say that there wasn't any malice in him at all.  The discording of the Mane Six still comes off as very cruel, and he seemed to very much *enjoy* it.  This is especially evident when he fails to manipulate and troll Fluttershy, so he gets frustrated and brute force brainwash her.  He could ahve done this to any of them, just that it was more fun to put them through emotional torture. 

 

So I think as far as Discord's character goes, I think I latched onto one aspect of Discord's personality and made more of it than was actually there in Return of Harmony.  So instead of him being Chaotic Evil, he's really more Chaotic Mostly Neutral With Some Evil.

 

Now onto this episode itself.  I think part of my problem was that we never really saw full-blown chaotic Discord until he froze over Sweet Apple Acres at the end.  Really up to that point he was just being an annoying houseguest, instead of the awesome and manipulative villain he was in his first appearance.  Which of course makes sense, he was biding his time until he won over Fluttershy's confidence before he could really strike and fully be himself.  But I think that my first time watching it, I was waiting for that moment for him to fully emerge that I couldn't fully appreciate some of the humor and moments in the middle of the episode (I like Pinkie's reaction to the gravy boat!).

 

And in the end, Discord didn't change his alignment from "Chaotic Evil" to "Neutral Good" like I thought, it was more like from "Chaotic Mostly Neutral With Some Evil" to "Chaotic Good With Some Neutral".  Which is a much more palatable leap *as long as it's properly set up*.

 

But were *all* of my problems with the episode based on my preconceptions and expectations about Discord and his reformation?  Well... I *still* say no, not entirely.  First of all, many said the episode felt rushed, especially the ending, and I *completely* agree with that.  That kind of alignment change that he showed at the end can work well as long as it's properly set up, and I think they failed at that here.  When you've been around for over a thousand years(and yes, most of that while in stone, but remember he still retained consciousness) and if you're an absolute free spirit like Discord, change should be very, *very* difficult.  They really needed to establish the groundwork for this, maybe show more of his past to crate some context for the character, have him more noticeably affected by Fluttershy's kindness throughout the episode.  I think that more of this preparation would have really helped so that the ending wouldn't hit me in the face quite like it did. 

 

And I still have a problem with Discord being on a leash.  Regardless of how long that leash could be, it's still a leash.  Whether he's Chaotic Evil, Neutral, or Good, he's still Chaotic, and these kinds of characters work best without any limitations.  The only way I could see him limited in some way working is if the sole reason for him behaving himself is because Fluttershy, his new friend, wants him to, and he has to resist being bad otherwise it would upset her.  This would be a better option if, again, they set up the groundwork better with that friendship. 

 

So... was it the absolute worst, rage inducing episode like I thought it was?  No.  Were my perceptions colored by my own headcanon about Discord?  Somewhat.  Were there still some significant flaws?  Yes.  While it didn't ruin the character quite like I thought, with the flaws with the setup, pacing, and ending, I still can't say it's one of the better episodes of the series.

Edited January 26, 2013 by hawkflame

[BronymanMiranda 25]

Does anyone else think that the way they reformed Discord was done so that if they wanted to make him a villain again, they could without that much fuss?

 

Now I don't think they'll do that, but if they did they'd at least have a reason you know?

Does anyone else think that the way they reformed Discord in this episode left the door open for the writers to make him a villain again if they wanted him to?

 

I mean that way they don't exactly have to do a long winded explanation, they could just say he faked it.

 

I personally think they won't do that, since the backlash would be like nothing we've ever seen.

[weegeez 150]

Looks like this episode has a mixed reception, Im on the bad side. Aside from well delivered Discord goodness, the whole episode was just a wreck. THe message in particular bothered me, it struck me as let someone do whatever they want, and suddenly a friendship is detected...like wtf? The episode also started slowly, but all of sudden things escalate right at the end, within like 2 minutes of Discord causing havoc, its over. The episode was not very believable and in comparison to the rest of the season...a let down. 

 

Want me to at least say a good thing about it? It looks like Royal Wedding in comparison to Mare Do Well

[Wingnut 6,734]

Now that I've had a few days to reflect on Keep Calm and Flutter On, I have a few more things to say. Fluttershy was truly amazing. She was already my favorite pony, but she showed faith and perseverance I didn't think she was capable of. Keep Calm and Flutter On is the first time I have seen Princess Celestia give a Mane 6 pony besides Twilight a major individual assignment. Fluttershy didn't let her down either by displaying a Twilight Sparkle-like diligence and commitment to carrying out her task. The quiet pegasus wasn't born yesterday and she knows all along what Discord is up to. She pulls off the acting job of the series, fooling Discord and her friends, by pretending she's gullible and naive. The best part comes near the end. Attempting to turn Discord good appears to be a lost cause and Fluttershy has every reason to blast Discord back into stone. She's angry, miserable, and so sick of his shenanigans. Discord is just begging for it, but at the moment of truth she throws her element away. Without a doubt, Fluttershy is the most stubborn persistent pony I have seen since...Applejack! Three seasons in, we're beginning to see some of the ponies' best traits rub off on each other. 

 

Nonetheless, it was a huge gamble by Fluttershy. If Discord didn't have a change of heart, she would've taken the blame for allowing him to go free and spread chaos all over Equestria. But speaking of Discord, I still don't totally understand him. He's loosely based on Q from Star Trek: The Next Generation. Q is just one member of a body called the Continuum which has a serious purpose for maintaining balance in the universe. Q also seems omnipotent except for whatever restrictions the Continuum is placing on him at the moment. He has potentially limitless power over space, time, and matter. But one thing I don't think Q has ever done is read somebody's mind. He can see the synapses firing and even the molecules that make up an organism's brain, but he lacks the ability to interpret that information. This allows the Star Trek crew to outwit him. I personally think this is a restriction imposed by the Continuum.

 

I get the reason for Discord's existence: You can't have light without darkness, order without chaos, harmony without discord. Discord was the best villain of the series even though he lacks the heart of an evildoer. He is more like a force of nature. But he's not a “balanced” force like Q is due to Continuum policies. His innate predisposition is to create disorder and the only clear counterweight to that is the embodiment of harmony, the Mane 6. Time will tell whether that is enough to keep him out of trouble.  I get why some people are opposed to Discord losing his villain status and I imagine some Trekkies didn't like it at the time when Q ceased being a clear cut threat. Q, and John de Lancie himself, have gone on to become legends in the Star Trek fandom. So I will give the MLP crew a chance to play this story out before passing judgment.

 

A funny footnote: The brief episode description provided by my digital cable box says “Princess Celestia wants the ponies to tame Discord but Fluttershy is opposed.”  Where did they get the idea Fluttershy was against it? 

Edited January 26, 2013 by ~Chaotic Wingnut~

[roptiriolg 49]

I forgot to say, I laughed hard when I saw this spitting fish tea jug 

 

Someone could have totally made a gif with that fish

 

[Enddrakothe3rd 2]

I'm not going to lie but I wanted fluttershy to punch discord when they were on the ice with anger rage and also pure awesomeness. 

[Cantankerous 106]

Discord never realized that having friends was even possible for him. No, he and Fluttershy were not in any meaningful way friends but the mere fact she said they were friends had profound meaning to Discord. It's quite a shame, he's been lonely but hasn't known what to do about it and only knew to take refuge is his baser instinct for chaos. Really though, if somepony had just made an outreach to him sooner all those terrible things he did in the past could have been avoided.

 

That's why I don't find the quickness of his reform overly forced. It could have been done better allotted more time; it could have been done a helluva lot better, even. Still, it's not as big a problem as many have made it out to be.

 

Edited January 29, 2013 by ByTheTides