Going Vegetarian

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

 

 

7) There is more than enough cruelty in the world as it is; no sane person can deny this. There is no need to add to the world's cruelty, unnecessarily.

 

Are you sure that this is animal cruelty we're hamming on about? To clarify, we consume them for the sake of staying healthy, not to rub it in the faces of their species and taunting them. We take no pleasure in killing organisms. Hurting another animal for the sole purpose of hurting them is cruelty.

 

We're given genes to kill another being to consume it for survival. This is how it's always been, way before the Jurassic period in Earth's history. Nature is timeless and beyond human morals. It is beyond life or death while both are integral parts to it. It goes beyond human life and human rationale. All living beings are a part of this. The wild is home to some of Earth's fiercest carnivores who would not hesitate to decapitate another for food. They kill each other for food, to defend their territory, or for whatever reason. Not so different from humans, actually. The reason? They share and act upon the same instincts as we do.

 

You know it exists. You know that just about every living being does this. You know that we aren't the only ones guilty of the act. Some of them have to die for life to move forward.

 

Death is a part of nature; it is always justified within it. It is also very ugly, but with perspective it is not a bad thing. Life as a generic term isn't so hot in its own right, either. It is a cycle and intertwined with the food web. Don't be concerned with taking an animal's life for getting food because in the big picture, it's what's gotten us here in the first place. And I must add that most of us aren't even "predators". We buy the stuff from meat plants and stores.

 

It's not my place to tell you what to eat, and while I myself encourage people to eat vegetables to maintain a balanced diet, it is not practical for some/most people to be strictly vegans. Meat provides a good, and often inexpensive alternative to staying healthy and fit. Take advantage of it if it's there and don't worry. Because in the end, we belong to the kingdom Animalia, and at heart, we're not much different than velociraptors.

[Mephala 2,633]

SNIP

Oh, no, I understand what you mean, of course. But I just see things in a much different way than other people based on many different factors.

 

I never tried to imply that humans have the intelligence of cows; I merely meant to say that I disapprove of any death for one, unless it is being out out of its misery. (Beating one to death with a hammer seems a little excessive and painful, though...what about euthanasia or a heavy poison dosage that would kill very quickly?)

And I believe in euthanasia both in humans and mercy killings for animals, so yeah. I get that as well.

 

I didn't mean we act like cows and/or chickens literally, in the sense that we have lessened intelligence, though unfortunately, much of our generation does. I meant it as in that we act as a herd. Many people just go about their daily lives, and don't become that famous author, or that journalist, or that world leaders mother, because they don't want to break out of the social norm.

 

I am aware of Maslow's hierarchy, though last time I studied them in detail I was eight. An excellent yet rather iffy referral, but again, I just hate the idea of killing something for our gain when it isn't absolutely necessary to us. We're no living in the far Arctic where plants cannot grow and the only source of food is other animals. Most of us live in North America, where plant life is in abundance. 

 

However, that was actually a pretty good post, not scatterbrained. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding about my comment on that, though. I can't explain myself, either.

 

 

 

@Lara Croft

 

My whole thing though is that is the flow of nature. You must end the life of things to live on. Herbivores and vegetarians  are no different. Just because it doesn't have a face doesn't mean it is more okay for it to die than the other. We may be sentient beings, but that doesn't mean we can deny the facts of the cycle of life.

 

I am not saying that I approve of all animal deaths, there are some cruel ways for them to die and it makes me sad. It just seems this argument is so heavily biased on one side or the other. Yet both kill something for survival. Maybe I am not as sensitive to the discussion as you are, and we are all entitled to our own opinions, but the food chain cycle is not cruel. Just how some obtain it is.

Which is why I said something that can actively feel pain. I'm not sure plants can (can they? That's something I wanna research now. I hope not, because otherwise I'm starving to death.)

 

 

 

I agree. People will never stop eating meat, people. It would make much more sense to stop wasting your time with preaching veganism, and to fix the meat industry. Like you said. I was just agreeing.

 

That's one thing that really annoys me, though. How vegans and vegetarians always seem to consider themselves morally superior to everyone else.

I don't think I'm morally superior. The reason so many of us come off as that way, though, is solely because we're in the minority. It can be hard to argue against something when so many people are pressing against you with different opinions. Lots probably think the same of you.

And then there are people that are just pricks, yeah.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Lara Croft

[Ron J 276]

I don't care how "inhumane" or "selfish" eating meat is. Meat still carries the nutrients needed to live a healthy life, regardless of whether or not those same nutrients are found in fruits and vegetables. My diet is nobody else's business but mine, and I'm not going to cut meat out of it completely just because someone tells me to.

[HungryTroll 137]

I wanted to become a vegeterian, but not because of animals, but because of my own health, so I cut almost all meat, aside of bird meat, from my ration, and that's not like a eat chicken a lot. So now red meat for me rare pleasure (and because it rare than I eat it I can taste it like never before). So now I eat cheaper and healthier food.

I've heard that person's need in meat depends on his blood type.

Edited April 18, 2013 by HungryTroll

[TwilizzleFoShizzle 95]

So its inhumane to eat animals, huh? Tell me, when did it suddenly become humane to rip the ground out from beneath all those same animals in the food chain by eating their sources of nutrition and watching them slowly waste away? Also, eating meat is not immoral but is actually quite the opposite, it would be immoral for us to STOP eating meat because then when those animals die their corpses go to waste.

[Harmonic Revelations 8,835]

It's unrealistic to think that even one person will stop eating meat because of this. First of all, the argument that eating meat is horrible is stupid.

 

You're like "I'm done eating meat" before you throw the steak in the dumpster

 

and the racoon in the dumpster is like "More for me, bitch." before it proceeds to claw your face off.

 

I don't eat meat for the nutritional value, I eat it because it tastes good, and not a thing in the world will stop me from eating meat. Sometimes I do the shooting of animals myself (Or hunting as you call it) and the meat is delicious and I'm never gonna stop. I'm pretty good at it too.

 

I'll never be a vegetarian because meat is among the best things in the world, right next to guns and video games. I'll go as far to say that I should thank Vegetarians since I get the surplus meat.

 

On principle, I'm going to eat more meat now.

 

 

 

Your loss, dude.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Harmonic Revelations

[Circadian 1,273]

My last post was inflammatory, and if it hurt feelings I apologize; but I still stand by my life choices and actions concerning eating meat. I got my point across and will leave this thread unless quoted again.

 

I still support vegetarians and vegans alike and I am honestly proud they act upon their beliefs. I give a bro-hoof and salute to you all. I just don't appreciate the tone and elitism that this thread was started with.

 

For the record though, I still have best of wishes for whoever started the thread and have no hard feelings towards him/her.

 

The only type of meat eating I can condone is hunting. If you have the capacity to hunt down and actually kill the animal yourself, I can respect that.

 

I won't do it, but I can respect it.

[Harmonic Revelations 8,835]

The only type of meat eating I can condone is hunting. If you have the capacity to hunt down and actually kill the animal yourself, I can respect that.

 

I won't do it, but I can respect it.

Actually by being a vegetarian you don't stop animals from being killed. All you do is make it pointless by making it go to waste. So in essence, eating animals is better and more respectful of animals.

[. eris . 1,661]

Oh, no, I understand what you mean, of course. But I just see things in a much different way than other people based on many different factors.

 

I never tried to imply that humans have the intelligence of cows; I merely meant to say that I disapprove of any death for one, unless it is being out out of its misery. (Beating one to death with a hammer seems a little excessive and painful, though...what about euthanasia or a heavy poison doseage?) 

 

I didn't mean we act like cows and/or chickens literally, in the sense that we have lessened intelligence, though unfortunately, much of our generation does. I meant it as in that we act as a herd. Many people just go about their daily lives, and don't become that famous author, or that journalist, or that world leaders mother, because they don't want to break out of the social norm.

 

I am aware of Maslow's hierarchy, though last time I studied them in detail I was eight. An excellent referral, but again, I just hate the idea of killing something for our gain when it isn't absolutely necessary to us. We're no living in the far Arctic where plants cannot grow and the only source of food is other animals. Most of us live in North America, where plant life is in abundance. 

 

However, that was actually a pretty good post, not scatterbrained. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding about my comment on that, though.

 

 

 

I don't think I'm morally superior. The reason so many of us come off as that way, though, is solely because we're in the minority.

 

Firstly, that last comment made my day. xD So many people on these boards gave me quite a bit of flack for being a Christian, so I get a bit defensive at times because I don't have anyone to back me up. I know where you're coming from, at least on this standpoint.

 

Spoilered because it may be a bit NSFW and a little graphic:

 

Actually, whacking with a hammer is very quick. Less than twenty seconds on average. Euthanasia isn't an option because it would cost $50+ to kill an animal, and it takes 3-4 business days to ship to your house. In that time, your entire herd could be infected. (We're talking about rabbits and guinea pigs, by the way. I don't think I could take a hammer to a pig or a cow, that would be way too inhumane. Takes too long.)

 

And believe it or not, a lot of companies don't like selling poison because people could use it to, er, kill themselves. Also, both of those require an injection, since rabbits are incredible sensitive to poisoned food and simply won't eat it. So that would mean locating a vein, which is hard beneath all that fur.

 

I feel a little sick after explaining all that so calmly. Thankfully, I've only had to whack a few rabbits, but being prepared is a must. So research is very necessary. O_e

Edited April 18, 2013 by Earl Grey

[Circadian 1,273]

 

 

That's one thing that really annoys me, though. How vegans and vegetarians always seem to consider themselves morally superior to everyone else.

 

That's because we feel like we do have the moral high ground... we've given up meat, something that we enjoyed, for various reasons. The only arguemnt I've heard in favor of meat (besides that one nutrition link Twilight Sparkle posted) is that people like eating it too much to stop.

 

 

 

So its inhumane to eat animals, huh? Tell me, when did it suddenly become humane to rip the ground out from beneath all those same animals in the food chain by eating their sources of nutrition and watching them slowly waste away? Also, eating meat is not immoral but is actually quite the opposite, it would be immoral for us to STOP eating meat because then when those animals die their corpses go to waste.

 

 

 

Actually by being a vegetarian you don't stop animals from being killed. All you do is make it pointless by making it go to waste. So in essence, eating animals is better and more respectful of animals.

 

By not eating livestock bred for the purpose of eating... that would mean less livestock is bred to eat. So no, nothing is going to waste because I don't eat meat. It's not like I throw it out after I buy it. Derp.

[Descant 1,897]

In America alone, as of today, this very second, we have enough food to feed the entire world three times over for a whole week. Why don't we? Politics, mostly. But the fact is that most of that food goes to waste anyway. Refusing to eat it is insulting, frankly, to those that can't. With the system we have today, the surplus food isn't going to go to the starving people of Africa or Asia. It's going to rot in our dumpsters. So refusing to eat it is just ridiculous since we have it.

 

I may not have phrased that thought well, admittedly, but it is how it is.

 

 

 

Which is why I said something that can actively feel pain. I'm not sure plants can (can they? That's something I wanna research now. I hope not, because otherwise I'm starving to death.)

 

 

Most of the time, animals don't even feel pain in the slaughterhouses. We're not cavemen anymore, we're not barbaric. And it's been proven that the better-treated an animal is in life, the better it tastes, and the healthier it is to consume. Not to mention it is, without exception, better for the environment to raise animals humanely. I'd list sources, but I'm feeling lazy at the moment.

 

 

 

I don't think I'm morally superior, since I hate humanity. The reason so many of us come off as that way, though, is solely because we're in the minority. It can be hard to argue against something when so many people are pressing against you with different opinions. Lots probably think the same of you. And then there are people that are just pricks, yeah.

 

 

I suppose that's true. I mean, I hate humanity as a whole as well. The same could be said of the brony fandom, I suppose. I never really thought about it like that.

 

 

 

*Proceeds to watch the given link*

*Watches some video commercial ad before the video starts*

*Notices the commercial is about fast food breakfast burgers*

Sounds like the Colbert Report for you.

 

 

 

That's because we feel like we do have the moral high ground... we've given up meat, something that we enjoyed, for various reasons. The only arguemnt I've heard in favor of meat (besides that one nutrition link Twilight Sparkle posted) is that people like eating it too much to stop.

See above for another argument.

 

I can't make anyone eat meat, nor do I want to. I can't make anyone change their minds, either. People are too damn stubborn for their own good. So generally, I feel arguing points like these are menial and pointless. Besides, I'm fine with vegetarianism itself. It's true, you can live happily off of leafy plants. But when these vegetarians start comparing animals to humans, or go full-out vegan is when I get annoyed. Ignorance is my enemy, not vegetarians or republicans or anything of the sort.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2013 by Glaceon

[Harmonic Revelations 8,835]

That's because we feel like we do have the moral high ground... we've given up meat, something that we enjoyed, for various reasons. The only arguemnt I've heard in favor of meat (besides that one nutrition link Twilight Sparkle posted) is that people like eating it too much to stop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By not eating livestock bred for the purpose of eating... that would mean less livestock is bred to eat. So no, nothing is going to waste because I don't eat meat. It's not like I throw it out after I buy it. Derp.

What I mean is that there are not less livestock being bred, by the pure logic that the meat is meant to be sold to stores, who then sell it to you. So in essence not eating meat just makes it sit on the shelf for a longer period of time. The amount of animals being killed is still the same. I think I should increase my meat intake since that is the most fun type of protest against vegetarians.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Harmonic Revelations

[Circadian 1,273]

What I mean is that there are not less livestock being bred, by the pure logic that the meat is meant to be sold to stores, who then sell it to you. So in essence not eating meat just makes it sit on the shelf for a longer period of time. The amount of animals being killed is still the same.

 

I agree to disagree. Have you ever worked in a grocery store? If less people are buying, less will be produced. I mean, you can only keep meat for so long. The average person (in the U.S.) eats nearly 200 pounds of meat per year.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2…

 

Thats 200 pounds of meat that isn't consumed.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Circadian

[. eris . 1,661]

I agree to disagree. Have you ever worked in a grocery store? If less people are buying, less will be produced. I mean, you can only keep meat for so long. The average person (in the U.S.) eats nearly 200 pounds of meat per year.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2…

 

Thats 200 pounds of meat that isn't consumed.

 

Ew. I am way below average then. No way do I eat 200 lbs. of meat. My mother would castigate me if I ate 200 lbs. of anything, even over the period of a year. O_e

[Harmonic Revelations 8,835]

I agree to disagree. Have you ever worked in a grocery store? If less people are buying, less will be produced. I mean, you can only keep meat for so long. The average person (in the U.S.) eats nearly 200 pounds of meat per year.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2…

 

Thats 200 pounds of meat that isn't consumed.

Fine, then I guess on principle I'm going to have to eat more meat now. After all, vegetarians are like the worst union ever, they're not trying to destroy the jobs of a company, they're trying to destroy an entire industry. All you're doing by being Vegetarian is killing jobs, and drastically failing to affect anything other than ruining the lives of those who work in the meat industry.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Harmonic Revelations

[Descant 1,897]

I agree to disagree. Have you ever worked in a grocery store? If less people are buying, less will be produced. I mean, you can only keep meat for so long. The average person (in the U.S.) eats nearly 200 pounds of meat per year.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2…

 

Thats 200 pounds of meat that isn't consumed.

So that'll just be 200 pounds left to rot every year, won't it? By the very nature of the industry, they'll keep producing, whether people eat the meat or not, so they can, and so they can make all the other products one can get from an animal. 

 

Again, I provide this picture for reference, but this time less of as an attack on vegans. We use parts of Cattle in everyday life. Even if the industry is shut down, and we don't eat the meat anymore, we'll still use every other part of cattle for something or other, and therefore there will still be a demand for the slaughtering of animals, except the meat will just rot instead of providing some sort of purpose in of itself.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Glaceon

[Circadian 1,273]

 

 

Fine, then I guess on principle I'm going to have to eat more meat now. After all, vegetarians are like the worst union ever, they're not trying to destroy the jobs of a company, they're trying to destroy an entire industry.

 

LOL you're going to eat more meat just to spite vegetarians? That's pretty childish if you ask me.

 

It won't work out in the end because you'll live a shorter life span, so it all evens out in the end. Enjoy the heart disease!

[Harmonic Revelations 8,835]

LOL you're going to eat more meat just to spite vegetarians? That's pretty childish if you ask me.

 

It won't work out in the end because you'll live a shorter life span, so it all evens out in the end. Enjoy the heart disease!

My favorite story about vegetarians is where a guy forced a vegan lifestyle on his toddler and the kid died from malnutrition. It's the best story to show how I feel about the whole thing.

 

It's a bad lifestyle to be vegetarian. That's all there is to it.

 

It's like the feminism of the food industry, pointless and pushing a corporate agenda. I am one hundred percent certain vegetarianism was started by some health food company who wanted to make a few extra bucks by charging more for their products.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Harmonic Revelations

[BlueHoodedHero 101]

To be honest I wish I could make healthier choices, but most of the time the more healthy food costs more. Unless you go to the effort of personally buying my food and writing out meal recipes for me, I can't afford to make a change. In this economy you are asking too much of me, unless you have link that gives tips on eating healthier without breaking my wallet. I know saying this isn't really contributing to the "debate", but I'm just trying to explain why I can't personally afford to go healthy.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Soren

[Modphase 1,271]

I chuckled a little inside when the thought came to my mind, "Why do you even care?"

 

Because this entire argument you're trying to make is pointless, as you can't change someone's standpoints on something from a mere couple of paragraphs, you'll need something...bigger.

 

I doubt that this is any sort of persuasive mention, as I'm sure you're smart enough to notice that this won't make any difference in a person, so I'm assuming that this is a rant.

 

You can't forcibly change other people, you can try, and it sometimes happens, but in an argument such as this, it's going to be harder than an orbital maneuver to convince people.

 

I will however, debate your points, not because I want to change you, but just because I want to demonstrate how weak they are. Just so you don't waste more time trying to argue this even more and have people think negatively about you.

 

 

1) Eating meat is not at all required for health.

However, if you want a very healthy life, a balance of all kinds of foods, meats included, is necessary.

 

2) There is no nutrient in meat that cannot be found in a vegetarian diet. No one can deny this.

This is very true. However, protein is found the most in meats. Amino acids (which make up proteins) just aren't found much in plants, seeing as they a very primitive carbon compound. On the other hand, animals are chock-full of amino acids, so meats leave plants behind in the dust when it comes to providing proteins. This is an undeniable fact.

 

 

3) There is no disease where eating meat is required for the treatment or cure of the disease.

What does food have to do with curing diseases? I thought that was what therapy and medicine were for.

 

And before you say diabetes, diabetes is controlled not with a specific food type but a certain diet.

 

4) Therefore, eating meat is absolutely unnecessary.

So, driving a car, wearing clothes, and going to the moon are all unnecessary. But we drive cars to get to destinations faster, wear clothes to keep our privacy and not have animal-like reproduction, and the United States went to the moon to show the Russians whose boss. They are all unnecessary, but they all make life better.

 

If we did only the things that were necessary and nothing else, we would still be living like the Cro-Magnon.

 

5) Eating meat causes death to other animals, obviously.

Some animals are meant to be eaten. It's all part of the food chain. 

 

6) Therefore, eating meat is immoral and unethical. And abhorrently selfish.

So, a bear, lion, cobra, shark, and any other carnivore are immoral and unethical huh? Hmm, last time I checked, those animals need to eat meat to survive.

 

7) There is more than enough cruelty in the world as it is; no sane person can deny this. There is no need to add to the world's cruelty, unnecessarily.

It's not cruelty. It's natural selection and the food chain. Humans are at the top of the food chain.

 

 

 

The only plausible thing that can change someone's views on this matter is a health condition, diet (I don't support only-vegetarian diets unless it has to do with a health issue), religion, or a viewpoint you've had since you were young.

[. eris . 1,661]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. @Harmonic Revelations, @Circadian, let's take it down a notch. You're trying to debate with one another, not insult each other. Don't wish death on another person.

[Circadian 1,273]

 

 

My favorite story about vegetarians is where a guy forced a vegan lifestyle on his toddler and the kid died from malnutrition. It's the best story to show how I feel about the whole thing.

 

Good thing I'm not a vegan, nor a moron who would do something that idiotic. It's pretty easy to eat properly.

 

Did you know Heart Disease is the leading cause of death in the US, and that eating too much red meat is the primary culprit?

[Harmonic Revelations 8,835]

Good thing I'm not a vegan, nor a moron who would do something that idiotic. It's pretty easy to eat properly.

 

Did you know Heart Disease is the leading cause of death in the US, and that eating too much red meat is the primary culprit?

Did you notice that the key words there is that heart disease is caused by eating TOO MUCH red meat and not just by eating red meat?

 

If anyone eats too many vegetables they'll die just as horribly.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Harmonic Revelations

[Descant 1,897]

LOL you're going to eat more meat just to spite vegetarians? That's pretty childish if you ask me.

 

It won't work out in the end because you'll live a shorter life span, so it all evens out in the end. Enjoy the heart disease!

And there's the elitist, high-minded attitude of the vegetarians that I was so pointing out earlier. I wouldn't mind so much if it didn't sound condescending. 

 

I'll admit, eating meat is bad for you. But meat alternatives are often worse. Soy, and therefore tofu, for example. http://www.mnn.com/food/healthy-eating/stories/tofu-nutrition-facts

 

Let me find my notes from Environmental Science last semester...

 

Okay, I'm going to put all my notes about this stuff right here in this spoiler...

 

 

·         All rice revealed to contain arsenic. Inorganic arsenic – worst carcinogen for humans

o   52% of all calories come from rice worldwide

o   Rice is in most kinds of cereal

o   Arsenic is not naturally found in rice or soils.

o   However it is found in many pesticides, like DDT.

o   99% of rice grown in rice patties.

o   Arsenic has an acute effect. A spoonful of arsenic and you’ll die. It's found in quite small quantities in the rice, but that’s enough to make a major difference.

o   IT’S IN BABY FOOD! D:

·         Rat shit in flour. Up to 5% of flour is legally rat shit. 1% is cockroaches.

o   Reminder to self - Never eat bread again.

·         Good news: North Carolina cable plant plugs into renewable energy.

o   Same day: Tax Credit in Doubt, Wind Power Industry is withering.

§  30% federal, 35% NC incentive for solar power. Expires Dec. 31 2014. Invest in renewable power now.

§  Wind expires Dec. 31 2012

·         One out of every seven adults in the US are involved directly or indirectly tied into the auto industry. If GM had gone under, 3 million would have been out of jobs.

·         NC only has a lottery because everyone else around us has one.

 

·         Toxins – Natural and manmade poisons

§  Vegetarians beware! Peanut butter - brands like Jiff - are USDA approved. Organic peanuts are not inspected. Not used with pesticides.  No pesticides.  In your Skippy and Jiff, there will be a little bit of pesticide. In your organic, there will be no pesticides. Peanuts are susceptible to a fungus called aspergillus flavus. Eating a green, rotten peanut? It has aspergillus flavus. Has one of the most powerful carcinogens to man. If you eat organic peanut butter, you are giving yourself a cancer risk equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes a day.

·         Men and women in certain sub-Saharan Africa die prematurely because of liver cancer, because of the stuff in peanuts.

·         Allergens (Antigens)

o   Almost always a protein

o   Gets into your body and produces an antigen reaction.

o   Histamine (Antihistamine)

§  Best example, peanut allergies.

·         Endocrine Disrupters

o   Someone should be in jail right now for something

§  Hormones are the single most powerful bioactive molecules known to man.

§  Tiny, tiny amounts. If a single one of these glands shut down, you will probably die.

§  Thyroids secrete thyroxin. If it’s not functioning properly, they’re temperamental. You’re stereotypical angry yelling woman (She’s possessed!) In the neck

§  Adrenal Glands – Fight or Flight! Muscle strength, alertness. On top of the kidneys.

§  The gonads – Ovaries or Testes – Estrogen or Testosterone. It’s a mess of what’s going on with human gonads. NPR: American men’s penis sizes are 14% smaller than in 1930. 65% of all couple infertility is caused by males.

o   Tens of thousands of scientists are trying to figure out why soybeans, more than any other natural product, contains genisten.  Genisten is an estrogen-mimicking compound.

§  Then we found out all kinds of aerosol, paint, pesticides, pharmaceuticals, etc. contains plastics, and all contain estrogen-mimicking compounds. Including BPA.

·         Men are getting more and more feminized.

·         Breast cancer is rampant, when it wasn’t before.  Went from 60 to 1 for grandma to 4.5 to 1 for girls today.

o   Tomaxifin – Breast cancer drug. Inhibits estrogen. 90% of all breast cancers are estrogen +. More estrogen, more cancer.

§  Populations of Everglades Alligators are going down, down, down, because eggs are no longer fertile, because alligator penises are too short.

o   (Soy – High protein. Tofu, soy sauce)

·         Neurotoxins

·         Mutagens

·         Teratogens

·         Carcinogens

 

 

Might I suggest reading those notes, @@Circadian? There are far worse evils out there than meat, and most don't know about them.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Glaceon

[Circadian 1,273]

 

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Harmonic Revelations, Circadian, let's take it down a notch. You're trying to debate with one another, not insult each other. Don't wish death on another person.

 

Neither of us is wishing death on the other person, we're just having a friendly debate! Besides, me wishing death on somebody while preaching vegetarianism would be pretty counterproductive.