Why hate Mary Sues?

[Hive King 2,001]

It's okay to tell them, they have the right to make their character what they want. They have their own free will to change it if they want, we are in no place to say their OC sucks.

No, if they are putting out their OC for everyone to see, they are accepting the possibility that people will dislike it. Or would you rather lie to them constantly about their OC?

[Pinklady 346]

This will probably be a stupid question. Oh well...here we go:

I heard the word Mary Sue so many times, but I have no clue what it means.

[Bird Mom 900]

If you don't say anything about their OC, it's not lying. And considering you started an argument about this, you clearly didn't read that I said it was my opinion. Keyword: opinion.

This will probably be a stupid question. Oh well...here we go:

I heard the word Mary Sue so many times, but I have no clue what it means.

Mary Sue is a character, usually an alicorn or black and red pony.

 

Alicorn: "IM SO PERFECT IN ALL WAYS"

 

Black & Red: "IM EVIL FOR THE SAKE OF BEING EVIL"

[Hive King 2,001]

This will probably be a stupid question. Oh well...here we go:

I heard the word Mary Sue so many times, but I have no clue what it means.

A Mary Sue is a flawless character that is never challenged. Both canon and OC characters can fall prey to this(Superman Prime). 

 

 

If you don't say anything about their OC, it's not lying. And considering you started an argument about this, you clearly didn't read that I said it was my opinion. Keyword: opinion.

I read it, I just happen to think your opinion is overly gentle 

[Bird Mom 900]

A Mary Sue is a flawless character that is never challenged. Both canon and OC characters can fall prey to this(Superman Prime). 

 

 

I read it, I just happen to think your opinion is overly gentle 

Overly gentle? You mean being nice to someone?

[Hive King 2,001]

Overly gentle? You mean being nice to someone?

No, I mean overly gentle. I mean coddling someone and tip toeing around them because you're afraid they're too weak to handle the truth

[Bird Mom 900]

No, I mean overly gentle. I mean coddling someone and tip toeing around them because you're afraid they're too weak to handle the truth

Because some people are. It's best to just not get into their OC business.

[Castle Bleck 19,387]

I think this explains it pretty well

 

Mad Munchkin has a nice voice.

[Suitaloo 743]

I'm not a fan of them because there's no conflict that they literally can't just resolve with a wave of the hand, or hoof in this case. They're basically the living embodiment of the Deus ex Machina and whenever that happens in a story, it feels like a cop-out. I mean, there's powerful, but fallible, and then there's just black and red alicorn OCs that are either extremely perfect in every way or are all angsty and whining about how their life sucks when they have all the power in the world at their disposal.

[Castle Bleck 19,387]

I'm not a fan of them because there's no conflict that they literally can't just resolve with a wave of the hand, or hoof in this case. They're basically the living embodiment of the Deus ex Machina and whenever that happens in a story, it feels like a cop-out. I mean, there's powerful, but fallible, and then there's just black and red alicorn OCs that are either extremely perfect in every way or are all angsty and whining about how their life sucks when they have all the power in the world at their disposal.

 

Dear Random Mary-Sue-Creator,

 

If Discord, a bucking reality-warper, manages to stay well-rounded, what's your bucking excuse?

 

Love,

A.V.

[Suitaloo 743]

Dear Random Mary-Sue-Creator,

 

If Discord, a bucking reality-warper, manages to stay well-rounded, what's your bucking excuse?

 

Love,

A.V.

 

Well, he manages to stay well-rounded because of the fact that A. He's an anti-hero at best and an antagonist at worst, and B. the fact that he was created by professional writers. Most Marty Stu/Mary Sue creators aren't professional writers, and therefore, are a lot more prone to making shit characters.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Suitaloo

[Hive King 2,001]

@@A.V.,

Discord stays well rounded because his pride bites him in the ass constantly and because as of now, he's gotten owned three times 

[Castle Bleck 19,387]

@Evil Dragon Master,

 

That, too.

[Pripyat Pony 2,608]

@@Pinklady, Here is definition: https://www.fanfiction.net/topic/91554/43715105/What-is-a-Mary-Sue

 

Want to know if your character applies? Here is a fair and not too long test: http://www.katfeete.net/writing/marysue.html

 

Also, contrary to popular belief, not all Mary Sues are OCs. I have read fanfics with horribly warped canons who've been turned into horrid Mary Sues, usually at the whim of the author who wants them paired with their sickening Gary Stu character. A lot of butthurt female writers act as tho the term "Mary Sue" is a sexist way of putting down strong female characters, but that's bull poopy. There are plenty of strong female characters who don't get the lable, cuz they're well written, flawed, make mistakes and work for their happy ending. The butthurt authors probably are trying to escape their acts of writing loathsome characters that make everyone want to vomit. I've seen just as many male authors write Sues, so bang goes that argument.

 

Also, I don't buy the whole "I wrote this for my own enjoyment so buck you!" argument, either. If you (generic you, not directed at anypony here) were writing your Suefic for your own enjoyment, then why are you putting it on a public forum and begging for reviews, eh? If you want to upload a story and keep it to yourself, there's always Google docs, where you can keep the story completely private. These people want praise, bootlicking and kudos; when they don't get it, they go into meltdown mode.

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Pripyat Pony,

A canon example is Bella from Twilight 

[Countess Noodle 607]

No one wants to read about a perfect pony/person when their own life is garbage in comparison.

 

Which it always is when your reading a story with a Mary-Sue in it.

[Everleaf 541]

Pfft bronies and Mary Sues  :okiedokielokie: ....no I mean the complaining....

 

 

okay it's simple they are NOT canon...and it does not ruin the show...it does NOTHING to the show it's just a oc...if someone likes it well simple I'm cool with it I'm not gonna complain even if you get a Celestia sized bat winged cat eyed red and black alicorn with a over detailed cutiemark....

 

because it's NOT my oc....or canon... 

 

 

 

and even if we have a Mary Sue in the show...you could consider Twilight the way (COULD) however we don't and even if I did I would not really mind personally the show can do what they like as also people can do what they like with ocs 

 

 

well my oc (Everleaf) is a alicorn however I would not consider her Mary Sue as she has many flaws and is a much lower rank than the sisters 

 

 

but hey as I said personally I'm cool with the stuff. 

[Suitaloo 743]

@@Pinklady, Here is definition: https://www.fanfiction.net/topic/91554/43715105/What-is-a-Mary-Sue

 

Want to know if your character applies? Here is a fair and not too long test: http://www.katfeete.net/writing/marysue.html

 

Also, contrary to popular belief, not all Mary Sues are OCs. I have read fanfics with horribly warped canons who've been turned into horrid Mary Sues, usually at the whim of the author who wants them paired with their sickening Gary Stu character. A lot of butthurt female writers act as tho the term "Mary Sue" is a sexist way of putting down strong female characters, but that's bull poopy. There are plenty of strong female characters who don't get the lable, cuz they're well written, flawed, make mistakes and work for their happy ending. The butthurt authors probably are trying to escape their acts of writing loathsome characters that make everyone want to vomit. I've seen just as many male authors write Sues, so bang goes that argument.

 

Also, I don't buy the whole "I wrote this for my own enjoyment so buck you!" argument, either. If you (generic you, not directed at anypony here) were writing your Suefic for your own enjoyment, then why are you putting it on a public forum and begging for reviews, eh? If you want to upload a story and keep it to yourself, there's always Google docs, where you can keep the story completely private. These people want praise, bootlicking and kudos; when they don't get it, they go into meltdown mode.

 

First off, love the Elfen Lied stuff, best anime ever. Second off, something I like to do to prevent from writing Mary Sues/Marty Stus is to pretend that I'm giving the character a "S.P.E.C.I.A.L." attribute set, like from the Fallout series, to keep them balanced. S.P.E.C.I.A.L. standing for "Strength, Perception, Endurance, Charisma, Intelligence, Agility, Luck", starting all the stats based at 5 (out of a possible 10) and an additional 5 points to be distributed as I please, for a total of 40 SPECIAL points, and adjusting the stats as I feel fit the character so the total fits exactly 40. So, say for example I want a character to have a silver tongue and be really lucky, I could max out those attributes by using the 5 extra on Charisma and taking a point away from Strength, Perception, Endurance, Intelligence, and Agility to put 5 point in to Luck so I have a 10 in both Charisma and Luck, but a 4 in the rest. I find that even though I kind of am taking the stat system from a video game and applying it to literature or roleplay, it works well because it keeps me in my limits, and depending on the Luck stat, there can be a legitimate reason as to why I dropped the character a rope out of seemingly nowhere, they passed a Luck check. 

Edited September 13, 2014 by Suitaloo

[Darker 1,352]

Because they are insanely boring.

 

Also, Supes is not a Mary Sue. He's a Gary Stu.

[Hive King 2,001]

Because they are insanely boring.

 

Also, Supes is not a Mary Sue. He's a Gary Stu.

If he were, then he wouldn't have died and gotten his ass beaten several times

[Darker 1,352]

If he were, then he wouldn't have died and gotten his ass beaten several times

Maybe I should specify. The old 30s Superman. The one who sneezed and destroyed entire Solar Systems. THAT one is a Gary Stu. Nowadays Supes is not as OP nor as "Super" as he used to be.

[Hive King 2,001]

Maybe I should specify. The old 30s Superman. The one who sneezed and destroyed entire Solar Systems. THAT one is a Gary Stu. Nowadays Supes is not as OP nor as "Super" as he used to be.

Pre-Crisis was definitely one

[Shadowbolt192 3]

I hate mary sues because it can ruin stories, RPs and more. If they flaws, etc in their character, then will they not be a mary sue. If they have no flaws, etc, then they are a mary sue. Like Alicorn ocs being a mary sue because they tend to be perfect in every way. If I ever made a oc alicorn, she would be weaker than the mane 6 and have so many flaws.

 

Another good example is DBZ ocs. Like on Lord Frieza's(Facebook) page and Zangya's(Facebook) page, they have to deal with so many mary sues with Super Saiyan 10,etc. Like one person had a oc stronger than all canon characters in DBZ and killed them without even trying. 

Edited October 2, 2014 by Shadowbolt192

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

In my experience, characters with Sueish traits can be really entertaining so long as they're written by someone who's very aware of why these qualities normally aren't so good. To give an example, one of my favorite characters from Neon Genesis Evangelion is inhumanly good-looking, kind, talented and the main character falls in love with him really quickly. He feels very out of place in a show packed to the brim with messed up and flawed people, and that's the entire point. He was made to be an ideal, wish-fulfillment character and to force the more interesting people to grow. Strange idea, perhaps, but I think they made it work just fine. Sues can also be really funny, often unintentionally

 

I consider Mary Sue to be a pretty useless and pointlessly controversial term. The real problem I have is with uninteresting characters.

[Fawkes The Phoenix 737]

Bacause Mary Sues (and Gary Stus) are terrible bad written characters, it's not because they're too perfect, it's because they have no personality and are boring, a character can be almost flawless (ALMOST) without being a Mary Sue, after all, characters get development and become better persons, but they're still real, the still need a personality.