Why hate Mary Sues?

[Stancet 674]

I've been curious of this for a while. During the time I've known this fandom I have noticed an almost pathological fear of Mary Sues. It happened back in Season 3 when everyone was begging for a good Applejack episode, and then again when people thought princess-hood was taking Twilight's character too far. Not to mention, people are quick to dismiss OCs that are Mary Sues and fanfics with Mary Sues in them.

 

I clearly understand why everybody would rather avoid them. But in the Brony fandom it seems like a problem we're worrying about every other day. Just for some friendly discussion I'm curious to know what everybody's take on this is.

 

Personally, Mary Sue is a term people use too lightly. I'm a writer. I know when I've created a Mary Sue and I know how to change them for the better. For that reason, I'm normally calm when writers are working their magic cuz I know MLP has a good writing staff. 

Edited February 25, 2014 by Stancet

[Adente 1,000]

Well, most people are quick to dismiss Mary Sues because if any fan work has a Mary Sue in it, chances are it is of low quality and not very enjoyable. Mary Sues can very easily destroy an otherwise decent story. Why would I want to read a story about a character that's not compelling, is too perfect to be believable and usually serves as a painfully obvious self-insertion into the story by the author??

Edited February 25, 2014 by Windy Runner

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,809]

Well, Mary Sues are OCs with extreme powers. The reason why the hate, is that they aren't used correctly. They're just there for...I don't know. 

[~Silver Essence~ 2,621]

I have realized this quite often lately.

 

Then again, since season 4, many have been extra critical towards the series in general.

 

I don't mind mary sues, as long as they are used right, and so far, no complaints.

[GONEFOREVER 518]

Well, most people are quick to dismiss Mary Sues because if any fan work has a Mary Sue in it, chances are it is of low quality and not very enjoyable. Mary Sues can very easily destroy an otherwise decent story. Why would I want to read a story about a character that's not compelling, is too perfect to be believable and usually serves as a painfully obvious self-insertion into the story by the author??

 

Exactly. No offense to you other guys, but in my experience there is no such thing as a good mary sue. 

[Stancet 674]

Exactly. No offense to you other guys, but in my experience there is no such thing as a good mary sue. 

 

In my experience, YES! There is...

 

Superman!

Edited February 25, 2014 by Stancet

[Zhortac 1,473]

It depends solely on how bad. A character doesn't even have to be a mary sue, to be stupid. But generally, the hate on mary sues, is when someone makes a character, that has the stupidest connections to the story, characters, and/or world, is bullshitingly overpowered, and has the personality of a brick.

In my experience, YES! There is...

 

Superman!

 

IF you look at how much hate Superman Prime got, you'd understand how wrong that is.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,857]

Overall, just boring, irritating, over-powered, over-privileged characters.

 

That's all it is.

 

Mary Sues kill stories because the writers often put all of the focus on these, flawless, amazing characters that are just irritatingly perfect.

[GONEFOREVER 518]

In my experience, YES! There is...

 

Superman!

 

hahahahaha no. Superman has gotten SO much hate in the past, its not even funny.

Edited February 25, 2014 by DolosusDoleus

[~Glimmer Bloom~ 41]

Overall, just boring, irritating, over-powered, over-privileged characters.

 

That's all it is.

 

Mary Sues kill stories because the writers often put all of the focus on these, flawless, amazing characters that are just irritatingly perfect.

 

Exactly, I don't want to read about some perfect character... It's just aggravating. It is more so a personal preference I guess. I don't read stories with Mary Sue protagonists... it just spoils it

Edited February 25, 2014 by ~Glimmer Bloom~

[Zygen 6,065]

Well, generally people just find them uninteresting as they are by definition Perfect. Therefore not very realistic and not very compelling or believable. 

 

People like stories and the such to be believable and not having totally unrealistically perfect characters in it. Which is understandable as it allows for people to relate to characters better.

 

I personally don't directly hate them, but tend to find them less interesting.

 

Although I don't find that MLP contains Mary sue's personally, a few come kinda close, but not quite. And none of the mane 6 I find come anywhere close. 

Those are personal opinions of mine though, feel free to disagree.

[Blue Moon 6,336]

Because they tend to ruin stories with them being overpowered at all. When a character is perfect, there isn't any room for tension or conflict in a story which makes them kinda boring.

However, I do think the term is used way too much. Just because a character gets more power; that doesn't mean that character is automatically a Mary Sue. Basically, a Mary Sue is a character where basically everything revolves around that characters, and everything is perfect for them.

[Clarity 3,094]

First of all, how is Applejack a Mary Sue? She's just as flawed as any realistic and original character I've seen – and I don't see how people begging for an Applejack episode makes her a Mary Sue. Nor is Twilight – though she gained wings and a new title, it wasn't embraced fully and no one has really acknowledged it since the premiere.

 

I think people are forgetting what the definition of a Mary Sue is. Here I quote from its Wikipedia page:

 

 

Mary Sue stories—the adventures of the youngest and smartest ever person to graduate from the academy and ever get a commission at such a tender age. Usually characterized by unprecedented skill in everything from art to zoology, including karate and arm-wrestling. This character can also be found burrowing her way into the good graces/heart/mind of one of the Big Three [Kirk, Spock, and McCoy], if not all three at once. She saves the day by her wit and ability, and, if we are lucky, has the good grace to die at the end, being grieved by the entire ship.^[5]

 

"Mary Sue" today has changed from its original meaning and now carries a generalized, although not universal, connotation of wish-fulfillment and is commonly associated with self-insertion. True self-insertion is a literal and generally undisguised representation of the author; most characters described as "Mary Sues" are not, though they are often called "proxies"^[6] for the author. The negative connotation comes from this "wish-fulfillment" implication: the "Mary Sue" is judged as a poorly developed character, too perfect and lacking in realism to be interesting.^[7]

 

By definition, Mary Sues are self-inserts with no personality and typically have a tragic backstory – but manages to have everyone love them anyway. Not all self-inserts are MSs, of course, but most are – which is why it is best to avoid character representations of yourself in a story.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Akemi Homura

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,329]

Probably because most people don't use Mary Sues right and it mostly feels like the whole, "I'm perfect and can do anything." kind of thing.

[Stancet 674]

@, 

 

Basically, a lot of Applejack centered episodes like "The Last Roundup" and "Apple Family Reunion" were told from the viewpoint of other ponies besides Applejack herself. When people realized she wasn't really being given the spotlight they began to notice connections. Applejack's only real flaw up until recently was her pigheaded stubbornness, and they stopped writing about that after about two season one episodes. Since Applejack didn't have any dreams or ambitions to focus on instead people realized that she had a pretty easy-going life with every personal accomplishment already done. Of course, Applejack was never really a Mary Sue because her flaws never really went away, but it had been a while since anything really played against them.

 

Twilight was different, mostly because everybody made such a big deal out of her transformation. After becoming a princess, people began believing Hasbro was encouraging every little girl's fantasy. If Hasbro decided to take it further, they would make girls believe being a princess makes your problems magically go away. Luckily, Hasbro and the show's writers have wisely decided to respect the intelligence of their viewers.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Stancet

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Stancet,

Superman isn't a Mary Sue.

 

A Mary Sue could be weaker than Superman, but still be a Mary Sue. It depends on the challenges they face. Superman has gotten his ass kicked and has to sweat to fight his opponents.

 

A Mary Sue just laughs and has no conflict at all because she is just that much better than everyone else in her/his universe. A Mary Sue could be a paraplegic but still be one if they have no conflict and are perfect

[Mlpfan185 1,763]

Something was here. Something was here. Something was here. 

Edited October 10, 2018 by NONAME

[Stancet 674]

@,

 

I know, I know. Superman is not a Mary Sue but he's a really good character to bring up in such a discussion.

 

Truth be told, Superman has hardly any flaws. He's a natural born boy scout. But naturally, his enemies are the villains who symbolize everything he is against. They are powerful and sometimes even stronger than Superman himself. For that reason, we appreciate how much Superman is willing to give to fight for what's right.

[GONEFOREVER 518]

@,

 

I know, I know. Superman is not a Mary Sue but he's a really good character to bring up in such a discussion.

 

Truth be told, Superman has hardly any flaws. He's a natural born boy scout. But naturally, his enemies are the villains who symbolize everything he is against. They are powerful and sometimes even stronger than Superman himself. For that reason, we appreciate how much Superman is willing to give to fight for what's right.

 

doesn't stop him from being OP

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Stancet,

That's exactly why he's not a Sue. Now, if he was fighting Batman villains....yeah, then you could call him a Sue 

doesn't stop him from being OP

Not in his own universe, he's gotten his ass handed to him so many times, even died once

[GONEFOREVER 518]

@@Stancet,

That's exactly why he's not a Sue. Now, if he was fighting Batman villains....yeah, then you could call him a Sue 

Not in his own universe, he's gotten his ass handed to him so many times, even died once

 

True, true.

 

But what about when he IS in fact in the batman universe? Its happened more than once.

[Hive King 1,998]

@,

Well, crossovers usually suck. But typically, they bring along kryptonite or a smart villain to counter his crap 

[C.C. 66]

I know that people say they are and stuff, but do you really think people should go around telling people their OCs are terrible neon abominations? I mean, I happen to like some Mary sues.

What do you think?

[Kurai 304]

The reason I dont like them is due to the fact they mostly have poor stories, and ruin the fun out of alot of rps. 
 

Edited April 26, 2014 by Ritan Kurai

[Ribbonfree 2,383]

Even a Mary Sue can fill a role in a story. The thing is, they can't serve to make it boring, and a lot of people don't handle Mary Sue's in an interesting way because their abundance of good traits tends to resolve things too quickly or make it difficult for them to feel any conflict that isn't obviously contrived.