Why are people nationalistic?

[RainboomCrash 173]

Can someone explain why people are nationalistic to me? It just seems so stupid and divisive...you happen to be born in X country so X is automatically the best country and people who have the luck of being born there should get first refusal on jobs etc? It just doesn't make sense -.- All nationalism seems to do is foster racism and start wars...

[Steel Accord 6,658]

I think nationalism is the shadow of patriotism, rather than a recognition of your country's ideals as how they pertain to all of humanity, it's only the limited recognition of your country as just lines drawn on a map and the insistence that "my lines are better than your lines." Too often the latter is mistaken for the former.

 

Nationalism and chain alliances are what plunged Europe into the Great War, so obviously not a good thing. I think though, with the internet and globalization, people are starting to move past those barriers and recognize commonality in others based on more important things, such as beliefs.

[RainboomCrash 173]

I think nationalism is the shadow of patriotism, rather than a recognition of your country's ideals as how they pertain to all of humanity, it's only the limited recognition of your country as just lines drawn on a map and the insistence that "my lines are better than your lines." Too often the latter is mistaken for the former.

 

Nationalism and chain alliances are what plunged Europe into the Great War, so obviously not a good thing. I think though, with the internet and globalization, people are starting to move past those barriers and recognize commonality in others based on more important things, such as beliefs.

I see Facebook pages like this one, though, and I just don't want to live on this planet any more -.-

 

https://www.facebook.com/britainfirstgb?fref=nf

[Sugar Pea 2,681]

I believe it may because of the idea of giving others a opportunity, kinda like letting illegals come into the country to find jobs. I wouldn't see a problem with this maybe if they weren't lowing job options for those who originally were in that country. >.<

But what else would you expect to happen? A lollipop guild? This country...

[Steel Accord 6,658]

I see Facebook pages like this one, though, and I just don't want to live on this planet any more -.-

 

https://www.facebook.com/britainfirstgb?fref=nf

 

Well simply don't join them. Speak out against them if you feel so strongly about it. When things look bleak in a game, is the healthy reaction to throw the board across the room because you're loosing?

[Sugar Pea 2,681]

Well simply don't join them. Speak out against them if you feel so strongly about it. When things look bleak in a game, is the healthy reaction to throw the board across the room because you're loosing?

Speaking out should be the last thing you do! It could cause a flame war! D:

[RainboomCrash 173]

Speaking out should be the last thing you do! It could cause a flame war! D:

How can I educate such ignorant people then? :S

[Sugar Pea 2,681]

How can I educate such ignorant people then? :S

Simple! Let them be while you laugh at their ignorance. Others can catch on, too. .___.

Sometimes, it's best to keep things to yourself when dealing with...umm...."ignorant" people. >_<

 

[Steel Accord 6,658]

Speaking out should be the last thing you do! It could cause a flame war! D:

 

No I don't mean just post "you are wrong" or some such. Speak out as in express your descension against their more destructive aims. Educate people as to what your respective country stands for, not just who it consist of.

[RainboomCrash 173]

Simple! Let them be while you laugh at their ignorance. Others can catch on, too. .___.

Sometimes, it's best to keep things to yourself when dealing with...umm...."ignorant" people. >_<

 

Yes but considering I have members of my family who immigrated to the UK, my step dad immigrated, and a lot of my friends are either immigrants or descendants of, it just gets to me.

[Sugar Pea 2,681]

No I don't mean just post "you are wrong" or some such. Speak out as in express your descension against their more destructive aims. Educate people as to what your respective country stands for, not just who it consist of.

Oooh, more like, have a subtle conversation about your views! I mean like, I get what you're saying but sometimes people have the nerve to say something harsh about them and then it becomes a flame war...so sometimes trying to talk about your views with the opposing doesn't work out well. >_<

[Steel Accord 6,658]

How can I educate such ignorant people then? :S

 

As I said above, do not attack your enemy directly, hold your ground as to what your country means and stands for. If you were to ask this Yankee of what he sees in the United Kingdom, he sees fortitude, honor, a legacy of kings and heroes. Anyone on this Earth who feels kinship with those ideals should be free to call themselves a citizen then.

Oooh, more like, have a subtle conversation about your views! I mean like, I get what you're saying but sometimes people have the nerve to say something harsh about them and then it becomes a flame war...so sometimes trying to talk about your views with the opposing doesn't work out well. >_<

 

Well just remaining silent doesn't change anything now does it? You don't have to yell, or shout, or insult, or attack. All you need is to speak your mind. To them, or just in general.

 

My mentor once visited London and said there was a corner where people could stand up in front of everyone and simply speak their mind. This would be a wonderful forum to speak such unifying views.

[Guest]

Well. Since i live in Slovenia i have seen what nationalism can do. We used to be part of Yugoslavia. But ofcourse the serbs filled with nationalism started to well work against the common goal. And so we had to declare independance. From this we can say there are two types of nationalism. The positive one, where you strive for the betterment of your conutry, you take pride in your heritage, and so on. And ofcourse the bad one, where you see your country, your culture as superior to others.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Guest

[Mephala 2,633]

I think there's a line that needs be drawn between "nationalistic" and "patriotism", because I'm proud to be of Welsh heritage and to have been born in such a country, but I'm just as proud to live in a country as cool as Canada, even if it's the frozen hell of the northern parts. XD

I find it's most common with countries that have been in wars for independence (like 'Murica), have had long-lasting monarchies and many territories (like England), or have been communist for quite some time (like Russia). It's a cultural thing just as much, I suppose.

To "combat" it, there's really no way except to politely explain your stance and disagree without sparking their jargon about how awesome their country is. They're not going to back down.

[Sugar Pea 2,681]

As I said above, do not attack your enemy directly, hold your ground as to what your country means and stands for. If you were to ask this Yankee of what he sees in the United Kingdom, he sees fortitude, honor, a legacy of kings and heroes. Anyone on this Earth who feels kinship with those ideals should be free to call themselves a citizen then.

 

Well just remaining silent doesn't change anything now does it? You don't have to yell, or shout, or insult, or attack. All you need is to speak your mind. To them, or just in general.

 

My mentor once visited London and said there was a corner where people could stand up in front of everyone and simply speak their mind. This would be a wonderful forum to speak such unifying views.

Well of course not, but the majority of the time one's opinion doesn't change what a whole group of people think.  In the OPs situation, people who are ignorant do not so care about what you must say, but are more uptight about what they think rather than take into consideration. Not saying it's impossible or you can't speak your mind, that's your choice alone...but it's more about being cautious.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Princess PeachBlink

[Steel Accord 6,658]

Well of course not, but the majority of the time one's opinion doesn't change what a whole group of people think.  In the OPs situation, people who are ignorant do not so care about what you must say, but are more uptight about what they think rather than take into consideration. Not saying it's impossible or you can't speak your mind, that's your choice alone...but it's more about being cautious.

 

Of course you won't persuade those set in their ways, such as that Guard group, but you will persuade the uniformed. You can bring others to your line of thinking without antagonizing nationalists.

 

And I've always held the notion that if you do have enemies, you're doing something right.

I think there's a line that needs be drawn between "nationalistic" and "patriotism", because I'm proud to be of Welsh heritage and to have been born in such a country, but I'm just as proud to live in a country as cool as Canada, even if it's the frozen hell of the northern parts. XD

I find it's most common with countries that have been in wars for independence (like 'Murica), have had long-lasting monarchies and many territories (like England), or have been communist for quite some time (like Russia). It's a cultural thing just as much, I suppose.

To "combat" it, there's really no way except to politely explain your stance and disagree without sparking their jargon about how awesome their country is. They're not going to back down.

 

Maybe not initially, but there are ways to dial them down and introduce them to a little nuance.

 

I myself had some downplayed nationalist tendencies, before I expanded my mind a little more globally, something my country practically has in it's own Constitution.

 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that ALL men are created equal . . ." and all that.

 

I realized one did not need to be American to believe in freedom, opportunity, and integrity. Cut me some slack, I was young. 

[Arctic Night 884]

It's sort of funny. I don't remember choosing where I'd be born, so why should I have been any more proud of living in the US than any other country? Obviously I'd choose America over North Korea in a heartbeat, but I can never know for sure (unless I move) that I would not be better off living in Canada or Germany.

[SparklingSwirls 21,274]

People probably just want the best for where they live, like Wizard said.

 

As for me, I dislike the country I live in, and I plan to move out someday. I don't consider it to be "my" country or anything, since I didn't choose where to be born. I'm not proud of anything that this country is known for

[pony.colin 156]

I'll throw out the in-group & out-group bias (as one thing to consider to answering your question):

 

Humans tend to be a group-bound species, to feed and protect ourselves too.  To cheer, kill or even die for these groups. Essentially living in these groups. Not surprisingly, you will also find that people define themselves by their group.  The sense of who we are contains not only a personal identity but also a social identity as well. Like labeling someone a Hindu or a Scot, - this is a shorthand way of some other things about that person.  There's a "we" factor to this.  We identify and associate ourselves with certain groups (the in-group) and gain self esteem by doing so.  And we compare and contrast our group with other groups - with a notable favourable bias toward our own group (the out-group - the group perceived as being distinctively different or apart from our in-group).

 

We evaluate ourselves partly by our group memberships. We see respect for ourselves but pride in our groups - seeing our groups as superior helps us feel even better.  It's as if well think, "I am an X [insert your in-group]". X is good, therefore I am good by being part of this group.

 

Lacking a positive person identity, people often see self-esteem by identifying with a group. Examples are everywhere, (a youth gang, or radical nationalists for example).  When people's personal and social identities become fused - when the boundary between self and group blurs - they become more willing to fight or die for their group.

 

The group definition of who you are - your race, religion, gender, academic major - implies a definition of who you are not.  The circle that includes "us" (the in-group) and excludes "them" (the out-group).  Another example, the more that ethnic Turks living in the Netherlands see themselves as Turks or as Muslims, the less they see themselves as Dutch. 

 

This gets problematically worst when in-group bias starts to form as it will provoke favouritism towards "us" and unfairness towards "them".

 

 

Now that's only a partial aspect to explaining why nationalism can form (ideas fueling the group should be considered as well).  You can also add other things like Benedict Anderson and how he uses his theory to explain that the "Nation" has always been an imagined community, it never really could exist outside of a very small village (maybe of less than 5 people?) 

 

It's imagined because members of the smallest nation will never meet most of their fellow members vis a vis (face to face) - yet each member holds a belief that all of their members hold each others intimate thoughts and understandings of the nation. (it's a rationalization problem that they commit).

 

The more to the point one I want to say though is that it's an imagined community because regardless of the inequality or exploitation, the nation is still conceived as a deep horizontal comradeship amongst the nation.  Yet this limited imagination is what people are willing to die for. 

 

(again there's more information out there to explain the formation of nationalism and how it occurs).

 

Where are the sociologist or psychological or cultural theorists bronies to weigh in on this?

 

I'm already doing a bad job of this - jump in any time other disciplines.

Edited May 15, 2014 by pony.colin

[crazitaco 596]

 

 

This image comes to mind when I think of nationalism in the U.S.

Having some patriotism is okay, I guess. I personally think my country has little to be proud of, but that's cause I'm somewhat a pessimist. But full blown nationalism? Disgusting. Blegh.

I think people become nationalistic because people are taught that their country is "great" at an early age. And unfortunately, many adults don't think critically enough to realize just how much of our great "history" is actually lies. They believe everything the media tells them and never question anything.

Edited May 15, 2014 by crazitaco

[Zygen 6,065]

I suppose because many people like to think of themselves as better than others. And nationalistic feelings are another way to express that.

 

Of course, while there are very nationalistic people, that isn't to say all people are that way, there's always bad apples in the bunch, but that doesn't mean the whole bunch is bad.

 

And I mean being proud of your country isn't a bad thing necessarily, as long as you don't shove it in other's faces.

 

I can't say I've witnessed to many nationalistic people over here in United States. Seems like most people are the opposite that I know atleast in that they hate America and are ashamed of living here.

 

I'm sure they exist though, but regardless there are plenty of people who aren't nationalistic. 

 

I personally don't want to be totally against my country, but I don't really plan on being ignorant and saying "My country is better than yours!" 

 

That's just my opinion atleast. 

[碇 シンジン 27,427]

To be honest I don't really care about my country but I'm still content here 

[Twiggy 2,965]

Culture matters to the social cohesion of a nation. If a few people are let in based on merit, that is fine. But when you open the floodgates to third worlders who commit a disproportionate amount of crime, cry oppression until the government passes laws that require you to hire based on things like ethnicity and religion, and leech off of the tax dollars of the citizens, you're gonna have some problems.

Nationalism isn't what fosters racism in the modern age. Multiculturalism is.

[Monsoon 1,650]

Yeah I was born in the UK but I want to move to Germany with my other family members because I just prefer Germany to the UK 

[Mirage 24,211]

Nations are generally built around social structures and culture, and sometimes even historical traditions that the peoples hold dear. Culture and society are necessary for a healthy community. You cannot have a social order without an agreed upon set of norms, at the very least. It creates a place called home. Of course these things can be corrupted and manipulated, but that doesn't mean they should be abolished. Taken at face value, people who seriously seek to destroy all nationalism is in itself a tremendous threat to innocent people of all divergences, who may risk their lives to stop it (how soon we forget Nazism and Marxism). So I'd take care to examine one's accusations about war and suffering.

Really, this is just revolutionary thinking. Instead of reforming or fixing problems to make lives better on a local level, you're just going to accuse the entire population of the world of being 'ignorant'?

Who's going to organize this take over of all people?

What are the rules going to be?

Who's going to protect it?

Who's going to write the laws?

What 'angels' are going to manage it?

Sorry, not in with your way of thinking. It's presumptuous and wrong.