Why was Discord forgiven so easily?

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

The question is why was Discord so easily reformed? No compensation for the shit he did no emorse no apology. His reform wasnt about apologizing or making ammends it was about friendship. That is why i believe it wasn't a true reform. They just befriended him and left the rest to his consience.

 

Eh, I chalk that up to "it's a kid's show that teaches kids that friendship is the most powerful magic there is."

Edited May 27, 2014 by SCS
Removed quoted content that had to be removed because it was abusive.

[Grumpy Enchantress 586]

Because they don't want Bronies to stop watching the show so they need that useless character who's only there for fanservice. (Fact.)

[pony.colin 156]

To OP:

 

- Time constraints,

- plot device

- Aesop

 

To every other pony discussing about the nature of forgiveness:

 

Twilight's forgiveness of Discord reminds me of those old heroic characteristics that used to be used in telling stories about heroic protagonists.  It seems a little more forgotten nowadays though.  Probably due to the all cynicism and snark that has been tossed around all these years (and it being the new thing).  HA I'm so stupid I forgot the term, Aesop (yes that's what this was about.)

 

The moral of forgiveness has been tossed around for a very long time now, one that I figured, used to be more valued in literature and society previously.  It's not dead though, so that feels good that it's still kicking around.  If you can ever forgive someone who betrayed your trust, I always considered that an admirable trait of a person.  Not saying it's easy to always apply nor saying it's a foolish thing either.  For the cynics, you'll be lucky enough to ever gain their trust again for a second time, and it's tentative at best. (not going into the discussion about forgiveness since it's not the main topic of this). 

 

It's on the Sliding Scale of Cynicism Versus Idealism, and one of the more well known Aesop passed around in story telling.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Forgiveness

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnAesop

Edited May 23, 2014 by pony.colin

[RockinRarity 1,605]

The question is why was Discord so easily reformed? No compensation for the shit he did no emorse no apology. His reform wasnt about apologizing or making ammends it was about friendship. That is why i believe it wasn't a true reform. They just befriended him and left the rest to his consience.

I like this theory. I didn't think he was totally "reformed" at the end of Keep Calm and Flutter On, he just had a reason not to turn the world upside down. Maybe that's why I consider it a good season 3 episode...

[LordDiscord 289]

Doesn't make sense to me.

In fact, it doesn't make sense since Keep Calm and Flutter On, but that is another story...

 

You earn trust by proving that you can be relied on and trust is an integral part of friendship. He just betrayed their trust in the most important task he has been given (as far as we know... Could have been the ONLY task he's been given). If that is how the show works, then it's not about friendship, it's about spoiling man-children. I can't see any reasons for Twilight to just decide that Discord needs to be freed other than he is now harmless and that she knew beforehand that he'd give her the last key. And to spite Tirek.

Considering how Twilight and the others treated him since his reformation in ''Keep Calm Flutter On'' I am surprised he did not betray them sooner. Discord was forced into become friends with Fluttershy, he had no choice in the matter because it was either that or being turned to stone. And even then none of the Mane 6 (minus Fluttershy) even tried to help her reform him. Heck Fluttershy basically manipulated him by holding their friendship hostage and telling Discord if he screws up and causes chaos then she won't be his friend. None of the Mane 6 cared, and Fluttershy was basically keeping Discord on a invisible leash that at any time she could cut loose and leave Discord alone. When left with those options, I kind of would betray the people that claim to be my ''friends'' for someone that was offering companionship without judgement, the ability to be myself without the other hating me or looking down upon me.

[Flutter's lover <3 8,205]

He was still learning the concept of what friendship is,at the time, he really only knew the basics. He thought being friends just meant going to Tea Parties with Fluttershy or having lunch with her. He didn't know that friendship involved standing up for your friends and protecting them. It wasn't until he was betrayed that he knew what friendship actually means and how much it meant to him. He learned from that mistake, he immediately regretting betraying the mane 6's trust and Fluttershy's friendship. Discord even apologized to her when they were in the bubbles.He was forgiven because of how little he knew of what friendship actually meant, and now that he knows more about it and how much he values it, he's highly unlikely to betray them again. If anything, this has made Discord's and Fluttershy's friendship even stronger, since he'll value her friendship even more. She's pretty much his   best friend.

Edited May 23, 2014 by :Flutterdash:

[LordDiscord 289]

Real chance for once?

 

Let's see. Discord first appeared and he made ponies' lives miserable. The sisters hit him with the Elements of Harmony and he got turned to stone. Then he gets free, and what is it that he does? Exactly the same he was doing before. He gets turned to stone again. He is freed and turns to doing exactly that again. For the sake of this argument, I'll assume that the moral in Keep Calm and Flutter On is valid, and Discord did start to become Fluttershy's friend.

 

Every time he appears after that is to annoy somepony and he withholds the truth about those vines. Assuming that it made sense that the Mane Six had to give up the elements and Discord couldn't control the vines, and wasn't trying to get rid of the Elements. Then, Celestia trusts him to deal with Tirek, which he could have done effortlessly. It's the single most important thing anyone was supposed to do in the season. Instead, he just listens to Tirek and ignores the fact that he is betraying his "friend" Fluttershy and Celestia's trust to begin with. Why? Because he just wants to do more of what he did before. So Fluttershy's friendship go to Tartarus: Tirek's friendship lets him get away with the thing that got him in trouble in the first place.

 

How many chances does he need? It's not like he has proven that he is trying in anyway. And if this guy was anywhere near me he'd better expect me to keep an eye in him, because he's shown that he doesn't give a damn about trust and he better behave. To do any less is not being "friendly", it's being complacent. Giving trust to someone who haven't earned it not "trusting": it's being naive.

 

If there had been any effort to show that Discord was indeed trying to become a better individual throughout the season I could agree that he slipped and deserved yet another chance, and could be called a friend even after he enabled Tirek to destroy everything Twilight loves.

 

To be fair, he did bookmark the journal for Twilight (since she is so incompetent, and apparently never bothered to read their journal... some princess of friendship...), but it pales in comparison to what he did right after that and it wouldn't have mattered if Twilight didn't read the script to know that he is supposed to giver her the last key. I understand the message here, of course, but it's botched because it doesn't make any sense for the lack developing an actual friendship.

Discord had never been given a chance. From the start Twilight and the others had been against Celestia decision to reform Discord and even after his reformation, they still show their aggression. You mention that Discord with held the fact that he released the vines, well wouldn't you withhold informing people that was so quick to nearly turn you into stone with no consideration as to whether you actually did it or not. Also through out season 4, Discord has done nothing but be a guide for the ponies. In ''Princess Twilight Sparkle'', he pointed out that Zecora would have a potion that would help them, he convinced Twilight to go back and be with her friends instead of staying back and protecting herself. He in his own way taught Twilight a lesson about being a princess. In ''Three's a Crowd'' he tested Twilight's loyalty as a friend. Discord has done nothing but try to help them and they shunned him, they had it coming.

Edited May 27, 2014 by SCS
Removed quoted material that was abusive.

[Jeric 46,851]

He was still learning the concept of what friendship is,at the time, he really only knew the basics. He thought being friends just meant going to Tea Parties with Fluttershy or having lunch with her. He didn't know that friendship involved standing up for your friends and protecting them. It wasn't until he was betrayed that he knew what friendship actually means and how much it meant to him. He learned from that mistake, he immediately regretting betraying the mane 6's trust and Fluttershy's friendship. Discord even apologized to her when they were in the bubbles.He was forgiven because of how little he knew of what friendship actually meant, and now that he knows more about it and how much he values it, he's highly unlikely to betray them again. If anything, this has made Discord's and Fluttershy's friendship even stronger, since he'll value her friendship even more. She's pretty much his best friend.

You know, Fluttershy is where this whole thing with Discord hinges on. Her reaction to his apology said more than 15 minutes of exposition would ever do. It sold his redemption to me ... Twilight added the exclamation.

 

Without Flutters, Discords arc falls apart. Actually his arc was my favorite part of the finale since it also acts as a parable for addiction and how loved ones react, even when logic should say walk away.

 

The more I think about it, I may have erred when I said in another thread that I was disappointed in how she was handled this season.

[SomeReallyRandomGuy 137]

Probably because the mane 6 are all good-hearted and forgiving ponies, and they believed he was actually reformed this time, as opposed to last time, when only Fluttershy believed he was reformed.

 

They probably saw the slap in the face he got from Tirek's backstabbing him as a flooring experience - the way he reacted obviously showed remorse, and the mane 6 saw that he learned his lesson. None of them are the kind to hold grudges and were able to easily forgive him since he realized he was wrong.

 

This is a world of friendship and magic, you know

This, this is exactly how I would put it (Just a lot better)

For him not to be forgiven would not really work with this show, but I can see where you are coming from.

[Flying wub 48]

My theory is that discord is waaaaaay to usefull to lock in and as you said friendship is magic.

I really like discord (best villain) but i still do not think it is only friendship.

 

But think like this: he can teleport and randomly create a bunch of things for no reason.

 

So i think they forgive discord is because he could kind of easy take over cities and stuff,

so there must be better to make him a friend over locking him in so he gets pissed and then try to take over.

This episodes villain got out of the jail and so did discord.

So the ponies can choose:Make him a friend that can help or lock him up and make him angry so he seeks revange.

 

I think the choise is clear -_-

[SBaby 660]

Yyyyyyyeah.....just something that really irked me about the season finale was that Discord was forgiven WAY too easily for helping Tirek grow so powerful. The question is, WHY? Yeah, yeah, "Friendship is Magic". But still, forgiveness is something that needs to be EARNED.

 

What you have to understand, is the mane six are the Elements of Harmony.  They are basically the Avatars of all that is good in the world.  If they didn't forgive him when he was truly showing remorse, they really wouldn't be demonstrating their connection to the Elements or to the power of Friendship very well.  There is reason to believe there would have been major consequences, had they not forgiven him (such as them possibly not being able to get the Rainbow Powers).  Of course, that would have really been interesting to see.

 

Remember, trust is important, but it isn't an Element of Harmony.  However, Kindness is one.  Therefore, it has to take precedence over trust, in all things.  I know the physical incarnations of the Elements are with the Tree of Harmony (kind of, the Rainbow of Light makes it a grey area), but that doesn't mean they stop adhering to the original Virtues of their world.

Edited May 23, 2014 by SBaby

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

I like this theory. I didn't think he was totally "reformed" at the end of Keep Calm and Flutter On, he just had a reason not to turn the world upside down. Maybe that's why I consider it a good season 3 episode...

For the same reason i don't exactly consider it a good episode. Yes he had something worth losing but when Fluttershy dies what will he do? She can't be by his side all the time. So what it took for him to understand this was a taste of what he did... And he didn't like it... Maybe this is a bit crazy but Discord wasb't actually reformed at that episode. He was in this one... However i am kinda dissapointed in general because people think he wasn't evil to begin with "Because it was in his nature" and that was doubtful to begin with... On the same note Chrysalis was considered evil... Go figure...

 

It will be a long time till Discord actually gains trust... And that would be an awesome piece in his three part reform.

Eh, I chalk that up to "it's a kid's show that teaches kids that friendship is the most powerful magic there is."

Yes but apparently to some he wasn't evil at all as i said above... Go figure.

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,091]

I think you're spot on, actually.

 

Discord learned to value only one friend, and that was Fluttershy, in "Keep Calm and Flutter On". Outside of her, he still saw ponies as objects to be messed around with and taunted, but he finally learned the value of treating others with respect in the Season Four Finale.

 

Same with the rest of the Mane Six outside of Fluttershy. They had never treated Discord right, and always insulted him and came at him with a huge level of distrust. Now both sides have learned to treat the other side better.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

I think you're spot on, actually.

 

Discord learned to value only one friend, and that was Fluttershy, in "Keep Calm and Flutter On". Outside of her, he still saw ponies as objects to be messed around with and taunted, but he finally learned the value of treating others with respect in the Season Four Finale.

 

Same with the rest of the Mane Six outside of Fluttershy. They had never treated Discord right, and always insulted him and came at him with a huge level of distrust. Now both sides have learned to treat the other side better.

So he is reformed but no truly accepted or forgiven. That's like... Not reformed at all... Great reform really... Good job on the mane 6 as well... I thought they would have learned their lesson by the season premiere the cadence twilight episode or the finale. Nice reform... *sarcastic clap*

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,091]

So he is reformed but no truly accepted or forgiven. That's like... Not reformed at all... Great reform really... Good job on the mane 6 as well... I thought they would have learned their lesson by the season premiere the cadence twilight episode or the finale. Nice reform... *sarcastic clap*

 

Ha ha, you got me to laugh.

 

But that's not what I'm saying. While he was reformed in that he recognized the value of friendship, he only saw friendship from one pony: Fluttershy.

 

Yes, Discord should be more mentally mature and have treated ponies with respect, but he is also a spirit of disharmony and chaos. Fluttershy was the only pony to ever show him kindness and trust, every other pony, even after his reform, still questioned him and belittled him constantly. Heck, look at the Season Four Premiere: the Mane Six instantly blame Discord for all their troubles and are about to blast him to stone. Why should Discord count them as friends at all, besides Fluttershy who was the only one who stuck up for him?

 

Like I said, the Season Four Premiere was a sort of second reformation where he realized and Twilight realized that the magic of friendship takes time and that both Discord and the Mane Six weren't treating each other with respect, despite apparently being friends.

[pony.colin 156]

My theory is that discord is waaaaaay to usefull to lock in and as you said friendship is magic.

I really like discord (best villain) but i still do not think it is only friendship.

 

But think like this: he can teleport and randomly create a bunch of things for no reason.

 

So i think they forgive discord is because he could kind of easy take over cities and stuff,

so there must be better to make him a friend over locking him in so he gets pissed and then try to take over.

This episodes villain got out of the jail and so did discord.

So the ponies can choose:Make him a friend that can help or lock him up and make him angry so he seeks revange.

 

I think the choise is clear -_-

That was some of Celestia's reasoning for bringing Discord's statue out to Twilight and company to try and have Discord reformed originally.

 

If you are saying post beating Tirek, well would they have turned him to stone or sent him to Tartarus.  Not sure if they could have done it with the "Rainbow Power" so who knows.  Not sure if Tartarus would have been a good lock up for Discord anyways, he might be able to escape easy being the god of chaos. 

 

But the series is moving to the aseop of forgiveness as well, so that's the main motive Twilight's going to play in her scenario.  Discord now has to take the friendship seriously, but so do the mane cast as well.  We'll see in future episodes (hopefully, because there can definitely be more follow up to see how different Discord will actually be treating his friendship more seriously, actual character development and change).

 

 

Ha ha, you got me to laugh.

 

But that's not what I'm saying. While he was reformed in that he recognized the value of friendship, he only saw friendship from one pony: Fluttershy.

 

Yes, Discord should be more mentally mature and have treated ponies with respect, but he is also a spirit of disharmony and chaos. Fluttershy was the only pony to ever show him kindness and trust, every other pony, even after his reform, still questioned him and belittled him constantly. Heck, look at the Season Four Premiere: the Mane Six instantly blame Discord for all their troubles and are about to blast him to stone. Why should Discord count them as friends at all, besides Fluttershy who was the only one who stuck up for him?

 

Like I said, the Season Four Premiere was a sort of second reformation where he realized and Twilight realized that the magic of friendship takes time and that both Discord and the Mane Six weren't treating each other with respect, despite apparently being friends.

 

 

If we are going to deconstruct Discord's friendship with the rest of the mane cast - wouldn't that warrant starting it's own new thread, since said subject can be different on its own based off of OP of this thread? Just my opinion is all

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,091]

If we are going to deconstruct Discord's friendship with the rest of the mane cast - wouldn't that warrant starting it's own new thread, since said subject can be different on its own based off of OP of this thread? Just my opinion is all

 

Perhaps, but I think it's relevant in this topic because it explains why Discord was forgiven so "easily" to me. I wouldn't mind another topic on it, but I believe the information is valuable in this one to help people understand another point of view on this situation.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

Ha ha, you got me to laugh.

 

But that's not what I'm saying. While he was reformed in that he recognized the value of friendship, he only saw friendship from one pony: Fluttershy.

 

Yes, Discord should be more mentally mature and have treated ponies with respect, but he is also a spirit of disharmony and chaos. Fluttershy was the only pony to ever show him kindness and trust, every other pony, even after his reform, still questioned him and belittled him constantly. Heck, look at the Season Four Premiere: the Mane Six instantly blame Discord for all their troubles and are about to blast him to stone. Why should Discord count them as friends at all, besides Fluttershy who was the only one who stuck up for him?

 

Like I said, the Season Four Premiere was a sort of second reformation where he realized and Twilight realized that the magic of friendship takes time and that both Discord and the Mane Six weren't treating each other with respect, despite apparently being friends.

Except at the season start they were right... And Discord response to Twilight saying "You could have told us..." might have actually have been "Hasbro-Plot convinience biatches!". Yea... I am actually justifying them there. At least in that point he offered to repair Ponyville.

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,091]

Except at the season start they were right... And Discord response to Twilight saying "You could have told us..." might have actually have been "Hasbro-Plot convinience biatches!". Yea... I am actually justifying them there. At least in that point he offered to repair Ponyville.

 

Yes but it was the past Discord that did that, not the current Discord, and notice that Discord not telling them was actually the right thing to do as they learned a valuable lesson about friendship.

 

Actually, Discord betraying them in the season finale also helped them learn a valuable lesson about friendship and made Twilight earn her key, unlocking Rainbow Power and her own Kingdom, so maybe Discord being an evil arsehole on occasion is a good thing for Equestria, even if it's an extremely dangerous thing.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

My theory is that discord is waaaaaay to usefull to lock in and as you said friendship is magic.

I really like discord (best villain) but i still do not think it is only friendship.

 

But think like this: he can teleport and randomly create a bunch of things for no reason.

 

So i think they forgive discord is because he could kind of easy take over cities and stuff,

so there must be better to make him a friend over locking him in so he gets pissed and then try to take over.

This episodes villain got out of the jail and so did discord.

So the ponies can choose:Make him a friend that can help or lock him up and make him angry so he seeks revange.

 

I think the choise is clear -_-

That should be the case with every villain that they can't kill or imprison for life. Way for not having a reform institute or a normal prison... (Actually legally speaking prison in our world are defined as "reform institutes". It's another subject if they don't efficiently work that way).

Yes but it was the past Discord that did that, not the current Discord, and notice that Discord not telling them was actually the right thing to do as they learned a valuable lesson about friendship.

 

Actually, Discord betraying them in the season finale also helped them learn a valuable lesson about friendship and made Twilight earn her key, unlocking Rainbow Power and her own Kingdom, so maybe Discord being an evil arsehole on occasion is a good thing for Equestria, even if it's an extremely dangerous thing.

No it was compensation and a manipulative friendly kind. The kind that makes Celestia and Luna in my eyes appear as douchebags for doing!

 

Take a moment at LittleshyFIM for return to harmony part one "Country in cosmic doom villain threat? Send Twilight." Twilight this and Twilight that! Thats bs... Get of your comfy chairs Cadence/Celestia/Luna... Actually move your flanks after a thousand years to "attempt" to beat a villain! But no... We have to teach Twilight about "Friendship" even if the fate of the world is at stake! We might die and all but friendship comes first! If only they had attempted to actually do what Celestia did to Chrysalis. If only Discord had "tried" to stop the vines... You know... Not hand them the solution but just try to keep the vines at bay... He didn't.

Edited May 24, 2014 by nioniosbbbb

[Geek0zoid 1,468]

I think that, before the finale, Discord really didn't know what true friendship was. I did an overview on the season, and I mentioned in my video that, beforehand, the mane six were still cautious about him, as they didn't believe that he was totally reformed. By the end, he actually does reform, and finds out the true meaning of friendship.

That's why I think Discord was forgiven so easily.

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,091]

Take a moment at LittleshyFIM for return to harmony part one "Country in cosmic doom villain threat? Send Twilight." Twilight this and Twilight that! Thats bs... Get of your comfy chairs Cadence/Celestia/Luna... Actually move your flanks after a thousand years to "attempt" to beat a villain! But no... We have to teach Twilight about "Friendship" even if the fate of the world is at stake! We might die and all but friendship comes first! If only they had attempted to actually do what Celestia did to Chrysalis. If only Discord had "tried" to stop the vines... You know... Not hand them the solution but just try to keep the vines at bay... He didn't.

 

That's because Discord was still a jerk at that time. A less jerky jerk, but still a jerk.

 

Though I completely agree, I think it's about time Celestia, Luna, and Cadance had a friendship lesson!

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

That's because Discord was still a jerk at that time. A less jerky jerk, but still a jerk.

 

Though I completely agree, I think it's about time Celestia, Luna, and Cadance had a friendship lesson!

I just think that the "Lets test Twilight in an hour of doom" thingie is becoming cliche since season 1.

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,091]

I just think that the "Lets test Twilight in an hour of doom" thingie is becoming cliche since season 1.

 

In fact, now that Discord is Twilight's friend, maybe she and Discord should hang out with the other princesses for a whole week so they get a taste of the chaos medicine, hmmm?

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

Part of it was due to time constraints on the episode length, so it may have been rushed. But you could also say it's because they saw how regretful and dejected he was. Idk, it doesn't really bother me and I thought it was touching to see that they finally accepted Discord at the end so if it's rushed it didn't bother me at all