Ohnhai

So, tell and educate by example!

Yeh mid 70s were 'freaky'. I present exhibit A - edit for typo - Another good age test is the tune sung when sining the following lyrics.. One two three four five Six seven eight nine ten Eleven twelve.

Great... Leave the self conscious fretting to us old buggers why don't you. Probably due to the explosion of cartoons on TV during the the late 70s and 80s Probably something in MLPFiM resonates with the shows of that time. Thundercats( colour coded talking animals that teach moral lessons ! That seems familiar somehow!), Ulysses 31,dogtanion, cities of gold, masters of the universe, bagpuss, danger mouse!

yup . that's why I got this set too. although looking at them I'm sure given a decent 3D Printer I could do MUCH better far more 'on model' from the show my in game Timmy http://fav.me/d47c607 my in game Blossom, Bubbles and Buttercup http://fav.me/d46hj9x

(quoted and snipped because I don't know how to do the @Somebody thing yet) anyway I never said the torment dished out to Bronies was equivalent to that which plagues the gay community. I never would. It truly is on an utterly different scale and it absolutely sickens me that in this modern age people are abused in such a fashion simply because of who they are. You will get no argument from me that of the two communities the Gays do have it far far far worse. Hands down. No contest. And that is the point. It is not, and never should be a contest. I don’t like to see anyone bullied or abused for whatever reason, be it their sex, their gender alignment, their religion, politics or simply being a part of a fan-group for a TV show. I don’t care if the abuse is a ‘little light name calling’ or ‘being stoned to death’. I will, where I can, stand up and decry such behavior strongly and loudly. (Next time the landlady of a pub I occasionally frequent says being gay is ‘unnatural’ in front of me she is going to get such a schooling!) To be honest, I am quite disappointed in your response to the case of Michael Morones. To paraphrase: “So what? He’s just one kid who wasn't man enough to take, what we can’t be sure was anything more than, a little bit of teasing over something he chose to like!”. (I know that is a fairly brutal paraphrasing but that is what I read as the gist of your comments.) Seriously? This comes perilously close to the rationalizations used by some to excuse gay-bashing. And so what if his torment wasn't as severe as that inflicted upon – for example –Jamie Nabozny?(1) It was prolonged and severe enough to make Michael attempt suicide, and that is all that matters in this case. Yes there have been many more children driven to these extremes because of being Gay, but just how does that invalidate Michael’s case? This really isn't a pissing contest. It really isn't! Your argument is that being open about your love of MLP isn't ‘life changing’. I mentioned Michael to point out that it can be life changing, and with tragic results. I didn't mean life changing in the same way as being gay. I truly don’t see the two states as being equivalent. That would be ridiculous. One is a like for something and the other is a fundamental state of being. All I was trying to say was that the repercussions of those two, separate, un-alike things can sometimes be the same, and regardless of why it happened what caused it should never be tolerated. And I agree with you, Bronies shouldn't have to ‘come out’ because there shouldn't be anything to ‘come out' from, and may I say the same holds true for being gay/bi/trans/ginger or whatever. I will admit that I over sold the notion of the toy makers being the gender police. Mea culpa! However, the point I was trying to make (badly) was that regardless that there are ‘boys’ toys’ and ‘girls’ toys’, and they are very much seen as such in the general public’s perception, the problem comes when personal preference crosses those boundaries ( If I could have one toy from the Toy Story films it would be Jessie). This shouldn't matter, it really shouldn't! Why should it matter if young Billy puts down Action Man and picks up Barbie? They are both dolls with an impressive range of outfits and accessories; save for the fact Barbie has better cars! Or why does it matter if Joey puts down Thunder Cats for My Little Pony? Both feature colorful anthropomorphic talking animals with a tendency to spout lessons on morality. It shouldn't matter, but to oh so many people it unfortunately does. The ‘why’ comes down to the point I was clumsily trying to make. It comes down to ‘Gender Expression’ and what is oft asserted as the ‘appropriate’ bounds for gender expression. The reason people get their knickers in a twist when a boy likes ponies is that this sits outside their narrow definition of what masculinity is. These same people can also get all too disapproving of girls who like toy guns or engineering sets. They see this as deviation from the comfortable ‘norm’ and thus it must be “wrong”. And this same mechanism is what drives anti-gay sentiment. Being gay is way, WAY outside the narrow definition of what a lot of people hold as ‘Manly’ and thus is makes them super-uncomfortable. They don’t understand this difference and so they fear it. If they fear it they will either hide from it or fight it, and as being gay is generally soooo far outside what they consider ‘right’, this fight/flight reaction is often deadly. And that fear of what they don’t understand is the root of homophobia (which is then bolstered by religious bullshit and other nasty darkness) But I’m sure I don’t need to tell you that. A Boy playing with a girls toy, or being an open an enthusiastic fan of a ‘girls’ show isn't quite so far off the ranch as being gay is seen to be, but it’s far enough to unsettle those that are prone to that mind-set, and thus you get the teasing and the bullying. But not to the same extent as you would if you were gay, because being gay just freaks those people right out! Because these reactions oft tend to get strongly polarized, (right/wrong, good/bad, straight/gay, masculine/feminine) the instant something wanders out of the ‘good,normal’ it becomes ‘bad,wrong’. This is why ‘gay’ is frequently seen as synonymous with 'bad' or 'wrong' in the minds of certain people. That is why ‘gay’ is often slung in the faces of Bronies. It’s not because being a Brony and being Gay are seen as comparable or even remotely equivalent but that ‘wrong’ and ‘gay’ are! In the minds of the tormentor, if being a Brony is ‘wrong’, it must be ‘gay’. That is what I meant when I said the crap Bronies get, and the persecution that Gays suffer, are part of the same fight. While they are NOT equivalent or comparable things, the issues involved stem from the same root, and that is this gut reaction against variance from the ‘perceived’ norm of gender roles and behavior. That is what needs to be countered and fought; as if you can sort that out then so many other problems either go away or are severely crippled. But now to the issue of ‘Coming out’ I truly get why it chaps your feathers when Bronies use the term but I hope I've shown that I don’t think being Gay and being a Brony are comparable or equivalent, save for the fact I believe the problems both face come from the same underlying root cause. I’m reasonably confident that most Bronies don’t equate being Gay and being a Brony. You seem happy with Atheists using the term because you recognize the very real dangers in declaring your lack of belief in deities in a lot of places in the world. (including vast chunks of America) Yet this is a belief issue, a choice issue. Unlike being Gay, your religious stance is not built in; it’s a choice, but a choice that comes with real dangers. (But let’s not open that can of worms right now) When you say that you like Spongebob and feel no need to shout about that, this is because Spongebob, while being a cartoon it is seen as either a boys’ cartoon or gender neutral (with a slant towards the boys) so, because of what I said above, there is no issue with liking SB. It’s fine for boys, teens, young adults, and adult males to enjoy it because, while you might be seen as being a little ‘old for cartoons’, SB doesn't ring any of the 'gender norm' alarm bells the way MLP does. Or for that matter like Powerpuff Girls did. Despite there being many male fans of PPG out there (I am one,) that fandom didn't become a community in the same way or the same extent that the Brony community did. The male PPG fan-base never quite broke cover in the same way. Bronies wouldn't care if people simply didn't like MLP. It wouldn't be an issue. Horses Ponies for courses and all that. We might try evangelizing the show but that would be about it. No! The issue is not that they don’t like MLP, It’s that they don’t like us because we do like MLP. That is the difference. Same as the fact that it is not that homophobic men don’t fancy men, it’s that they don’t like men who fancy men because they fancy men! Heck it wouldn't be an issue if they hated MLP. Again that is not the issue. The issue is that they hate Bronies because we like MLP. You say that people are not entitled to be assholes to you because of your sexual preference which is, rightly, none of their business. I too believe this. No one has a right to abuse you because of your sexual preference. They have every right to hold the personal belief that being gay is wrong (misguided though that may be) but to abuse you because of that belief? Not a chance. Therefore do you not hold that people are not entitled to be assholes to me because of my viewing preferences, which is, rightly, none of their business? They have every right to hold the opinion (misguided though it maybe) that MLP sucks or that it’s ‘just for girls’ but not to abuse me because of that belief? Or do you want to assert that because my viewing preference isn't so demonstrably hard coded by my genes as my sexual preference is that means that fair game to receive abuse (however mild or serious) for my viewing preferences? Some Bronies ARE picked on, however mild or serious that bullying may be, because they like a show that goes against what certain people perceive to be against 'gender norms'. Though this abuse pales into insignificance when compared to the shit heaped upon the LGBT community, that doesn't mean the abuse isn't real or extremely hurtful to the victim, and can lead to very serious repercussions. Thankfully however, these incidences are very few and far between. While ‘Coming out is most associated with the LGBT community, it has developed a meaning that is self-contained and standalone. It is roughly: Wherever the person ‘coming out’ holds a preference (usually sexual) or position (usually religious) that they have kept hidden from public view for fear or concern of repercussions (mild or serious) from people (usually a majority) that hold more ‘mainstream’ preferences or positions and chooses to freely and publicly disclose that position or preference despite (and in defiance of) the associated risks. While still strongly associated with the LGBT community, 'coming out' is no longer confined to that community. I’m not likely to be beaten up because I’m a Brony. I’m a reasonably strong adult and I will give as good as I get if anyone tries it. At most I’m likely to receive mild teasing, or inappropriate secret Santa gifts (A certain plushy comes to mind) and I can deal with that too. I kept my Bronyism quiet because I didn't want the hassle or embarrassment. I didn't want the embarrassment because on a small level I felt mildly ashamed that I had fallen so completely for a girls show. See? The gender alarms work in everyone’s head’s, because most of us have been soaking in those gender norms since birth to some greater or lesser degree. What changed my stance was Michael’s story. Here was a kid who did nothing wrong and was harried because he liked MLP. The bullying got so bad he tried to kill himself. When I wrote about this on my Facebook page I stated that I was a fan of MLP too (just daring people to give me grief over that fact). For me this was a 'Coming Out', and is a coming out of defiance and solidarity with every other Brony who risks being bullied and accused of deviance or sick perversions (“Old men watching a ‘girls show’? There has got to be something sick and twisted going on there, right?”) While not comparable to the trials of being gay or coming out as an atheist (been there done that), coming out as a Brony is a stance against the prejudice and ignorance set against us not because of what we like but because we like it. If after all that you still find me saying that I 'outed myself as a Brony' offensive or believe that it damages the LGBT cause, then there is little more I can say or do. yours Stephen. (1) “For four years Jamie Nabozny was subjected to relentless antigay verbal and physical abuse by fellow students at his public high school in Ashland, Wisconsin. Students urinated on him, pretended to rape him during class and when they found him alone kicked him so many times in the stomach that he required surgery. Although they knew of the abuse, school officials said at one point that Nabozny should expect it if he’s gay. Nabozny attempted suicide several times…” http://www.lambdalegal.org/in-court/cases/nabozny-v-podlesny