The dangers of Cutie Marks

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

Rewatching the first half, Twilight pretty much states her belief that the Tree of Harmony is the driving force here.

 

Twilight Sparkle: As princess, I've been chosen to spread the magic of friendship across Equestria. So why would the Tree of Harmony want us to sit in a castle in Ponyville? It doesn't make any sense.

 

A little later:

 

Twilight Sparkle: I don't know. But it seems like the map wants us to find out. The Tree, the chest, this castle, and now the map. How can we not follow it?

 

Unless Twilight is simply flat out wrong, the cutie marks are less the driving force of events than the Tree of Harmony itself.

[Buck Testa 5,503]

The Rarity horn-dragging is a great example for your theory, actually. That’s interesting.

Okay, but if the special talents are, on occasion, “discovered” by force, is that a bad thing? We’ve never seen a pony who is unhappy with their special talent. There may be something divine behind the cutie mark process, be it sentient or not. But it’s the natural process, that’s what matters. The natural cutie marking doesn’t fail. It’s only when ponies try to mess with cutie marks (Star Swirl with his unfinished spell, Starlight Glimmer with her Sameness) that unhappiness is created.

 

Honestly? There are several possibilities here. It may just be to produce the placebo effect. It might be that Starlight Glimmer herself is unaware of the insignificance of cutie marks alone. Or, more likely in my opinion, she was actually giving them a special talent that was represented by the cutie mark. The talent she gave was being equal/average, and she just mass duplicated it.I’m gonna reiterate my original theory (which should totally have been canon because it’s way better than the canon) (I didn’t post the theory in this thread but I did post it on MLPF somewhere) about Starlight Glimmer. It was apparent early on that Starlight was much more brightly colored than the other ponies affected with Sameness. I thought it was probably because Starlight had the original = cutie mark, and the special talent that went with it: being average, a constant variable if you will in the learning-about-your-cutie marks experiment. Starlight was envious about cutie marks with more notable talents (hey… I guess that does enforce your headcanon! Hmm) and developed her philosophy. Then she replicated her sameness onto other ponies and created a perfectly equal society. The dark magic involved in creating duplicate cutie marks and talents is what sapped away the ponies’ strengths and colors.

 

 

 

Yes, of course it would change to work with the pony’s unique interpretation and personality and talent. I don’t really understand what your argument is here…?

 

You sound like someone on a religious crusade. All that said… you’ve started to convince me, and while I don’t agree with your principle (that cutie marks have the potential to be inherently bad; I think destiny in MLP combines with special talents/cutie marks to create the happiest course of life for a pony), I’m starting to think that cutie marks do have some significance beyond being butt tattoos.To summarize my new opinion: Yes, something supernatural is behind the assignment of cutie marks/special talents. However, if left alone, this force does nothing but good. It is only when ponies attempt to change the course of nature that things go wrong.

 

 

 

XD which is funny since I'm agnostic and usually against the whole crusade thing. No I'm just standing my ground on the theory is all, cause I'm confident its going to get proven right this season. If I get blown out of the water by the writers though I'll concede defeat though.

 

When I started this thread in the very beginning I had the thought that the cutie mark system was inherently bad, but the more I looked into it the more I actually liked the system. The normal cutie marks try to be as passive with their influence, except when they are super stubborn like Rarity, and they seem to make an idealistic society for the most part where the ponies feel fulfilled and are encouraged to be unique and use their talents for their livings. 

 

But they DO have a potential to be used in the wrong ways, like the equal sign marks. That was far more than a placebo effect, Rainbow literally could not fly fast because the mark forced her to slow down, glowing black and making an eerie sound as it did it. Same thing happened to Pinkie. Actually they were even worse, If you looked these marks took away whatever made the mane six special. Like Rarity not being able to tell that the drapes were bad, she was crying about it as she said they looked nice. That is some dark and creepy implications there. 

 

I can agree with that summary! Again while I thought cutie marks were bad news at first I don't think that now. But they have Potential to be bad, which is where the danger lies. 

 

 

 

 

the cutie marks are less the driving force of events than the Tree of Harmony itself.

 

The tree could very well be connected into all this, or rather, Harmony itself could be involved in all this. I do bring up there seems to be communication among the mane sixes marks specifically, like how they organized the Rainboom event, and eventually they were made the elements of harmony from objects FROM that tree, then they receive rainbow power from the tree, then the tree makes the castle after the defeat of Tirek. 

 

Given the marks seem to be itself a force of harmony (even Starlight said she was looking to create harmony with the equal sign marks) and the tree is clearly something involving harmony itself (hence the name Tree of Harmony) I would not be surprised in the least if the Cutie mark system and the Tree of harmony were related. In fact it actually fills in some questions I had a hard time answering about it. Really interesting observation! 

Edited April 7, 2015 by Buck Testa

[Soaring Symphony 372]

To summarize my new opinion: Yes, something supernatural is behind the assignment of cutie marks/special talents. However, if left alone, this force does nothing but good. It is only when ponies attempt to change the course of nature that things go wrong.

It kind of reminds me of people drilling for oil or creating G.M.O.'s or whatnot in real life.  What I gather from this is "if you don't mess with nature, nature won't mess with you."  I wonder if DHX did that on purpose.

[Abia 258]

Welp, I think this week's episode killed much of the potential for discussion here.

The CMCs's dreams represented the original premise here: that cutie marks exaggerate one's talents and force a pony to be someone they're not.

The reality, as explained by Luna and Applejack, is that cutie marks don't change who you are. They are a representation of who you are, and they only appear once you have realized it.

The talent is always there, but only when it is discovered does one receive their cutie mark.

Because a cutie mark is the essence of a pony, taking it away removes everything that made them who they were (besides physical, non-butt traits). It removes their talents and their personalities, it makes them equal.

 

I'll be ecstatic if the season continues in a direction similar to this. What an interesting episode. <3 While watching it I could only think of this topic; it pretty much addressed all of my points in a much better way.

 

The force that dragged Rarity to the giant rock is still questionable. Was that her essence/cutie mark force driving her, or something else? Why was she pulled all that way )against her will?)?

Is it possible for a full-grown pony to exist without their cutie mark? Could it be that destiny forced Rarity to quickly realize her talent because she was close to maturing into a mare, and she couldn't mature until she got her cutie mark?

[Justin_Case001 4,858]

Welp, I think this week's episode killed much of the potential for discussion here.

The CMCs's dreams represented the original premise here: that cutie marks exaggerate one's talents and force a pony to be someone they're not.

The reality, as explained by Luna and Applejack, is that cutie marks don't change who you are. They are a representation of who you are, and they only appear once you have realized it.

The talent is always there, but only when it is discovered does one receive their cutie mark.

Because a cutie mark is the essence of a pony, taking it away removes everything that made them who they were (besides physical, non-butt traits). It removes their talents and their personalities, it makes them equal.

 

I'll be ecstatic if the season continues in a direction similar to this. What an interesting episode. <3 While watching it I could only think of this topic; it pretty much addressed all of my points in a much better way.

 

The force that dragged Rarity to the giant rock is still questionable. Was that her essence/cutie mark force driving her, or something else? Why was she pulled all that way )against her will?)?

Is it possible for a full-grown pony to exist without their cutie mark? Could it be that destiny forced Rarity to quickly realize her talent because she was close to maturing into a mare, and she couldn't mature until she got her cutie mark?

Need more hoofs for your post.  'nuff said.  I was going to write a similar synopsis, but now I don't need to.

 

But about the Rarity horn dragging--I believe it did not directly have to do with her mark at all.  She accidentally discovered how to do the gem finding spell, but couldn't control it yet.  The mark didn't even come until after she made the fancy costumes.  The dragging was just the gem finding spell gone a bit haywire.  It's like Cyclops without his shades or something.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

@@Buck Testa,

 

To wit:

 

-What if they don't want to?

 

They do! That's the thing. Each pony's cutie mark is what that individual is not only best at but what they are and would be most personally fulfilled in performing. The CMC are trying to force a square peg into a round hole by throwing everything at the metaphorical wall (namely themselves) and seeing what sticks, when we can actually see the traces of their special talents right now.

 

The question comes down to the chicken and the egg, do they like it because it's their cutie mark or is it their cutie mark because they like it?

 

-What if there's more than one with the same talent?

 

We saw that in "Pinkie Pride" and that got resolved by episodes end. Even ponies with the same job do it in different ways and for different ponies. E.g. Cheese roams around and does absolute block buster events, Pinkie is more rooted and does energetic but more casual fair.

 

-What happens when they don't

 

That's called C.M.F.I.S. and it's been diagnosed since season one.

 

-To force a kind of control

 

Okay, by who? As far as we can tell, nopony grants or controls when cutie marks appear aside from the pony themeselves.

[Buck Testa 5,503]

Welp, I think this week's episode killed much of the potential for discussion here.

The CMCs's dreams represented the original premise here: that cutie marks exaggerate one's talents and force a pony to be someone they're not.

The reality, as explained by Luna and Applejack, is that cutie marks don't change who you are. They are a representation of who you are, and they only appear once you have realized it.

The talent is always there, but only when it is discovered does one receive their cutie mark.

Because a cutie mark is the essence of a pony, taking it away removes everything that made them who they were (besides physical, non-butt traits). It removes their talents and their personalities, it makes them equal.

 

I'll be ecstatic if the season continues in a direction similar to this. What an interesting episode. <3 While watching it I could only think of this topic; it pretty much addressed all of my points in a much better way.

 

The force that dragged Rarity to the giant rock is still questionable. Was that her essence/cutie mark force driving her, or something else? Why was she pulled all that way )against her will?)?

Is it possible for a full-grown pony to exist without their cutie mark? Could it be that destiny forced Rarity to quickly realize her talent because she was close to maturing into a mare, and she couldn't mature until she got her cutie mark?

Yus it was a good episode, even if it did seem like it was made to quash my theory lol. It could still happen, maybe, in like some kind of wacky off the wall plot twist, but yeah like I said before "it could all be disproven in the span of an episode. 

 

I still say there is SOMETHING going on, but I concede to the defeat of this theory (for now) 

[Steel Accord 6,658]

 

 

Yus it was a good episode, even if it did seem like it was made to quash my theory lol. It could still happen, maybe, in like some kind of wacky off the wall plot twist, but yeah like I said before "it could all be disproven in the span of an episode.    I still say there is SOMETHING going on, but I concede to the defeat of this theory (for now) 

 

Might I ask why you almost seem to want there to be some sinister undertone to it?

 

I mean, expose the truth behind every conspiracy I say, but if things really are just as plain, simple, and good as they appear on the surface, why is the lack of a malicious intent a bad thing?

[Lucia 100]

Cutie marks merely show the pony what he's good at. It does not force him to do anything. The examples the OP mentioned about season 3 happened because the cutie marks have been altered. The first one with the Cutie Pox and the second one with a spell. 

 

It was unnatural and it is what caused all the problems.

I mean, Cheese Sandwich has a cheese sandwich as a cutie mark. But that does not mean he is forced to make sandwiches for the rest of his life.

 

It just shows that he is good at making cheese sandwiches I guess, even if he chose a totally different path to follow, lol.

My thoughts, exactly. The cutie mark explains what the pony is good at, or has an extraodinary talent or affiliation with something. It does not necessarily mean that pony is programmed to commit to that 'task' or habit forever.

[Buck Testa 5,503]

Might I ask why you almost seem to want there to be some sinister undertone to it?

 

I mean, expose the truth behind every conspiracy I say, but if things really are just as plain, simple, and good as they appear on the surface, why is the lack of a malicious intent a bad thing?

Because its amazing fanfic fodder and until now there was nothing really disproving it! Hell I might still use it as such one of these days. 

[Steel Accord 6,658]

Because its amazing fanfic fodder and until now there was nothing really disproving it! Hell I might still use it as such one of these days. 

 

Oh okay. I myself prefer to write Equestria as close to canon in tone and prefer to fill in the blanks with mythic awesome rather than darkness.

[Superstars111 79]

Oh, this thread is fascinating. I have some input. @@Buck Testa, I know you've already seen my thread, but for anypony else, I'll link to it here, because this involves some of what I set forth.

 

First, Cutie Marks must have some actual effect on the ponies. This is shown in The Cutie Map with the Equal Cutie Marks. When the Mane Six lose their Cutie Marks and gain the new ones, their abilities changed. This could have been because they lost their original Cutie Marks, or it could have been because of the new Cutie Marks, but either way, something happened. A Cutie Mark won't change you, no, but it amplifies. We see this in my theory where the Cutie Marks have a triune nature. The soul, or the essense of the talent, the body, or the mark itself- the physical representation of the talent, and the spirit, or the bond that amplifies the talent and drives the pony to follow that talent.

It was mentioned previously by somepony (I forget who; it was several pages back) that some ponies (Twilight and Rainbow Dash in particular) got their Cutie Marks after their extreme outbursts of energy, thus showing that the Cutie Marks don't amplify. Actually, I would use this as evidence to the contrary. The Cutie Marks don't change them, because the talent is with them the whole time. Then, as they begin to realize it, (meaning, as they're in the process of realization,) the power begins to grow uncontrolably. This explains Rarity, Rainbow Dash's first sonic rainboom (that she later had trouble replicating) and Twilight's outburst of magic. Then the physical representation appears as kind of a cap. It restricts the amplification, allowing them control over their own talents.

 

This also means that there are several breaking points in the Cutie Mark.

One would be to take the entire thing away from the pony. But since the soul, or the essense of the talent, was already there to begin with, most ponies can't do that. The only one I've seen doing that was Discord in the Season Two premier. He would have left the body, or the physical representation for restraint, but taken the soul and spirit, or essense and amplification.

Another breaking point is between the soul and spirit. This is most common, since the body and spirit come and go together, but the soul was always with the pony. I think that this is what we see happening in The Cutie Map. Their Cutie Marks are taken and replaced. But they still have the soul. They still know what they're meant to do. Which is the reason for the body of the Equal Cutie Marks. They lost the amplification, but they should be able to get it right back since they already know their talents. But the new Cutie Mark, while it has nothing to bond with, still acts as a cap, or a restraint. This is why it glows. They're trying to get their Cutie Marks back, but they can't, because there's something already there.

The final breaking point for a Cutie Mark is between the body and the spirit. This is rare, since my theory requires the spirit to be bonded to the physical mark. But this is what I think we see in Magical Mystery Cure. The physical representations weren't taken away, carrying the amplifications with them. Rather, the spirits were forced to bond with new bodies that didn't match them. They still had a mark, after all, so their amplification (original amplification) remained, just bonded to a different physical mark.

 

I've been struck by inspiration, so I'm going to go post in my own thread with some more thoughts, but this is the information that I think relates to this thread specifically.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Superstars111

[Singe 2,109]

I can see why Starlight Glimmer thought that due to having a cutie mark some might think they're better than others, it sort of rains true to humans and our strengths and weaknesses, some humans think they're better than others simply because they excel at something someone else doesn't. Still I don't think just because someone is good at something and the other isn't means they're better, it just means they have a strength someone else doesn't.

 

Status and achievements can speak more. The Mane 6 does consist of two ponies in the top tier. Twilight Sparkle that transcended as a unicorn to an alicorn and was picked by Celestia. Rainbow Dash who is one of the top tier Pegasus in the show.