The dangers of Cutie Marks

[paradoxical 1,735]

Nice that is a good counter arguement. However their cutie marks depict they are a pair, they go together, and to top it off, their names literally refer to dishonest buisness practices. Literally Flim flam means to swindle and fast talk. Being the scam artist team with the apple theme is etched into their very flanks.

 

I wonder, though if cutie marks can be re-defined?

 

Flim& flam could start baking or improving cider recipes and say "Oh, this is what it means!" 

 

Kinda like Pinkie imagining (or if you prefer trying out) other jobs and trying to fit her balloon theme with those jobs.  (montage in Pinkie Pride)

 

e's:download (1).jpg Hell is that? How would you ever derive your special talent off of something so vague? Cutie marks are just too symbolic to be used as direct references.

 

Umm. . . it may be the universal sign for magic (see tree of harmony)

I got the impression from the Cutie Pox episode that having the Cutie Pox was an exceptional circumstance. Only by having the disease would a pony be compelled to perform the talent it represented. Otherwise, a pony's cutie mark is really just an extension of their own traits and personality, brought into being when a pony realizes what they are best at. Yes, a pony will get depressed when they are unable to perform their special talent, but that's really no different than any person in our world who has hobbies that they work on outside of their job. The difference between our world and theirs is that, more often than not, a pony's talent becomes integrated with what they do in life, whereas in our world a person's greatest talent doesn't always pay the bills.

 

(mostly agreement)

Actually we don't know about the pox itself.  But Apple Bloom's potion does that.  And I think it's part of the problem with forcing a cutie mark to appear, not intrinsic to cutie marks themselves. 

[silvadel 1,393]

The other problem is when a pony gets a criminal cutie mark.

 

Your mark MARKS you as a disharmonious element.

 

What happens to you then?

[paradoxical 1,735]

The other problem is when a pony gets a criminal cutie mark.

 

Your mark MARKS you as a disharmonious element.

 

What happens to you then?

 

I don't think amypony feels their calling is to evil.  Most robbers are Robin Hoods in their minds, Most murderers purveyors of "justice," most rapists "know" their victim wants it.

 

When the romantic cutie mark bearer becomes a rapist, don't blame the flank.

[silvadel 1,393]

I don't think amypony feels their calling is to evil.  Most robbers are Robin Hoods in their minds, Most murderers purveyors of "justice," most rapists "know" their victim wants it.

 

When the romantic cutie mark bearer becomes a rapist, don't blame the flank.

 

Have you ever read Harmony Theory?  The character Charisma is an extreme example of what a talent can be.

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

The Cutie Pox is an affliction and I believe that the spell from Magical Mystery Cure not only switched cutie marks, but by making the ponies believe they had different destinies (whether or not "destiny" is actually true in this world is as debatable as it is in our own), it clouded their thoughts and memories to make them do something different than what they had originally intended.

 

I can accept OP's headcanon that this functions like a drug in a way, where a failure to live up to a perceived "destiny" leads to insanity, but on the condition that it's really what the ponies themselves make of their cutie marks and the high value they place on self-image rather than the cutie marks themselves being imbued with any kind of trait that forces ponies to do what it says.

 

It's this high value on self-image that ponies have with respect to their cutie marks that led to them taking the swap in "Magical Mystery Cure" seriously. Because they now have something different on their flanks, they believe that the only way they can be productive and useful to others is if they fulfill their new purpose. They, in a way, chose to follow the new path rather than fight it.

 

But really the spell actually goaded them into it by corrupting their thoughts and memories, thus compelling them to choose the new path rather than what made sense. That's what the visuals of the episode suggest.

 

My opinion, is cutie marks can be detrimental. They were a fashion choice to make the characters more appealing by filling in their most bare location with a mark.

 

But, blank flanks are also mistreated.

 

Not to mention, what if ponies want to be good at multiple unrelated tasks? This prevents them from doing that. This causes emotional attachment to one lifestyle choice which could be described as an obsession. A healthier person has several interests, as far as I know.

 

Then, alot of us might feel like blank flanks. Imagine if there are blank flanks, how would they be treated? A lot of people don't know what they are good at so having a concept like that, makes it seem like everyone should know what they should do. Although the decision was made with children in mind more than adults, as most receive them as a child it'd seem, if not all. 

 

In which case cutie marks can be good, if they are bound to happen, it can give people a little bit of help who otherwise would not know what they want in life.

There's this, too.

 

The bolded paragraph really shows an opportunity that this show has missed, that I really wish they would do. In fact, it's why I created my OC as an adult blank flank -- clearly because it's where I and many others feel to be in real life, and that not only has it not been done in the show, it is also rarely even done by OCs.

 

I think it would be good for the show to have one episode that does deal with an adult pony with no cutie mark and no single calling really to call this show out for the extremely high bounty it places on seemingly devoting your life to a single passion. Taking that concept and portraying it almost unabashedly idealistically is actually one pet peeve I have with this show.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Wind Chaser

[Abia 258]

The other problem is when a pony gets a criminal cutie mark.

 

Your mark MARKS you as a disharmonious element.

 

What happens to you then?

Do we know if there is crime in Equestria? We haven't seen a lot of that sort of stuff. There are shady businesses and thievery, but ponies have not yet received cutie marks specializing in these areas I don't know if it'd be possible to get a cutie mark in criminal activities, assuming a divine force has part in assigning special talents/destinies. If it is possible, I guess that would be the pony's assigned destiny, but that doesn't mean you can't deviate from it if you so desire. There are security and guard cutie marks, so I guess there's got to be a few with the counterpart. Got to maintain the balance. It's the way things are, I suppose.

[silvadel 1,393]

"A Mark of Appeal" is another story that talks of a pony whose cutie mark is more a curse than a blessing. 

 

If a cutie mark gets too powerful, some talents can become problems.

[DubWolf 17,114]

I see what you mean.

 

I honestly think to myself "what if my cutie mark was music-related?" if we did get one. I've lost a lot of my interest in performing (or practicing, really ), so would I basically start having to play my instrument more often because "it's what my cutie mark is telling me"? Cutie marks appear to indicate your one and only talent is X, and you will permanently do X since that is what your cutie mark indicates, whereas people change in reality in terms of interests, so a cutie mark would... would need to be grayed out, or just re appear as something else.

[paradoxical 1,735]

I see what you mean.

 

I honestly think to myself "what if my cutie mark was music-related?" if we did get one. I've lost a lot of my interest in performing (or practicing, really ), so would I basically start having to play my instrument more often because "it's what my cutie mark is telling me"? Cutie marks appear to indicate your one and only talent is X, and you will permanently do X since that is what your cutie mark indicates, whereas people change in reality in terms of interests, so a cutie mark would... would need to be grayed out, or just re appear as something else.

 

Or you'd learn how to operate on patients with musical instruments. 

 

(Doctor: Clarinet! 

Nurse: Clarinet.

Doctor: Oh no the patient is fading fast give me a tuba stat!

Nurse: Tuba.

18 stitches later

Nurse: I have no clue what you just did, but the patient seems to have stabalized)

 

From Pinkie pride and the different jobs in MMC the marks can be reinterpreted.  (Rainbow was an animal chaser.  Rarity a weather designer)   [Pinkie should have gone into Angioplasty!]

[DubWolf 17,114]

Or you'd learn how to operate on patients with musical instruments.

 

(Doctor: Clarinet!

Nurse: Clarinet.

Doctor: Oh no the patient is fading fast give me a tuba stat!

Nurse: Tuba.

18 stitches later

Nurse: I have no clue what you just did, but the patient seems to have stabalized)

 

From Pinkie pride and the different jobs in MMC the marks can be reinterpreted. (Rainbow was an animal chaser. Rarity a weather designer) [Pinkie should have gone into Angioplasty!]

Hehehe, lawl .

 

I think it'd be much easier if the cutie marks were just there to represent their personality or something, just like Derpy has her cutie mark for her bubbly personality, and not for "blowing bubbles", but who knows?

[SparklingSquirrels 21,295]

Yeah, I tend to lose interest in things often, even things that I used to love to do. For example, I used to be really into swimming, but then I got "burned out" and now swimming (competively that is) is no longer something I like to do. I'd rather get a cutie mark that relates to my personality, although I'm not sure what that would be.

[silvadel 1,393]

Yeah, I tend to lose interest in things often, even things that I used to love to do. For example, I used to be really into swimming, but then I got "burned out" and now swimming (competively that is) is no longer something I like to do. I'd rather get a cutie mark that relates to my personality, although I'm not sure what that would be.

 

Then you might get a cutie mark like this:

 

[paradoxical 1,735]

Yeah, I tend to lose interest in things often, even things that I used to love to do. For example, I used to be really into swimming, but then I got "burned out" and now swimming (competively that is) is no longer something I like to do. I'd rather get a cutie mark that relates to my personality, although I'm not sure what that would be.

 

I think Ponies either are immune to that feeling or adapt their marks.  Pinkie as an angioplastician, for example.

[Buck Testa 5,505]

An update on this particular theory: (it has evolved a bit from my initial post but it is essentially the same as before)

 

Doctor wolf pointed out a clip in the Rainbow Dash Teaser Trailer that has only bolstered my theory of the potential dangers of cutie marks. In it Rainbow Dash's cutie mark has been replaced with an equal sign, the same equal sign as referenced in the seek preview that was leaked awhile back. It shows her trying to fly at her normal speed and her physically straining against some force, unable to fly faster than the average pony. 

 

My theory as of now: Cutie marks are sentient conduits of pony magic and can either passively or actively manipulate the pony they are connected with. Benevolent ones, like the mane six's cutie marks, seek to bring out the best in their pony and channels their magic in such a way as to augment their "special talent"; however ones altered by various kinds of magic and circumstances use the ponies magic in maladaptive, manipulative, and perhaps even malevolent ways.

 

Now imagine a cutie mark that forced you to be like Everypony else, to the point where you were walking around with the same plastered smile as them and unable to do anything about it. What if instead of augmenting their special talent, the cutie mark repressed it in the vain of fairness and equality?

 

I am heavily reminded of the story A BRAVE NEW WORLD by these implications, and the Mane six will have to fight against the shackles of equal sign cutie marks and whatever power is causing them to happen, and if they are really doing something along those lines for season 5...

  

Well lets just say I'm a wee bit excited :3

Edited December 16, 2014 by Buck Testa

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

An update on this particular theory: (it has evolved a bit from my initial post but it is essentially the same as before)

 

Doctor wolf pointed out a clip in the Rainbow Dash Teaser Trailer that has only bolstered my theory of the potential dangers of cutie marks. In it Rainbow Dash's cutie mark has been replaced with an equal sign, the same equal sign as referenced in the seek preview that was leaked awhile back. It shows her trying to fly at her normal speed and her physically straining against some force, unable to fly faster than the average pony. 

 

My theory as of now: Cutie marks are sentient conduits of pony magic and can either passively or actively manipulate the pony they are connected with. Benevolent ones, like the mane six's cutie marks, seek to bring out the best in their pony and channels their magic in such a way as to augment their "special talent"; however ones altered by various kinds of magic and circumstances use the ponies magic in maladaptive, manipulative, and perhaps even malevolent ways.

 

Now imagine a cutie mark that forced you to be like Everypony else, to the point where you were walking around with the same plastered smile as them and unable to do anything about it. What if instead of augmenting their special talent, the cutie mark repressed it in the vain of fairness and equality?

 

I am heavily reminded of the story A BRAVE NEW WORLD by these implications, and the Mane six will have to fight against the shackles of equal sign cutie marks and whatever power is causing them to happen, and if they are really doing something along those lines for season 5...

  

Well lets just say I'm a wee bit excited :3

I'm not 100% on board with the theory of the cutie mark as "sentient" just yet. There could be another force at play behind the scenes that could be manipulating these events, but we'll have to wait until we get closer to the episode to see what's behind it.

 

But I share your enthusiasm for the Season 5 premiere now. I'm ecstatic for the possibility of social commentary this could have, as it would push the show's unabashed promotion of individual talents and uniqueness against a real-life backdrop of generalization and devaluing of the individual. This has greater potential subtext than any other episode in the show I can think of, and I'm a sucker for finding subtext.

 

However, the unfortunate wrong side of this is if it continues to show only ponies with successful lives, or those who are actively working towards success in their lives. Like I posted before in this forum, one thing I'd love to see in this show that it has not done yet is an adult blank flank teaching the Crusaders to embrace the moment of being blank flanks and being afforded the opportunities of self-discovery. I want the characters to appreciate how good they have it to be afforded an environment of self-discovery rather than an environment of compliance and stripped self-identity. They should not take it for granted. Long story short, I want the show to actually acknowledge how much better Equestria's social system is than those of the real world, and the Season 5 premiere looks to be a step towards that. I hope they can keep it up for the rest of the season.

[sweetolebob18 726]

It is my understanding that you get your cutie mark realizing "This is what I would do w my life if I could afford it"  You have to admit it to yourself, though.  Fluttershy got hers almost as soon as she realized she could speak to animals, AJ lived on her farm her whole life, it wasn't until she left & came back that she got hers.

 

Cutie Marks & jobs, well they need folks to wait tables, wash dishes, scrub floors, etc.  I've done a LOT of these jobs in my life & trust me, bro, most ponies doing these things DON'T have a cutie mark in them. NOBODY likes scrubbing toilets, collecting garbage, etc.  But society needs folks to do these things.

 

So, if you can't do them without going nuts, then they have a LOT of crazy ponies running around.  Yeah, I'm sure ponies are a lot happier doing jobs they like, but in the words of an old song "money changes everything".

[They call me Loyalty 1,948]

Nice idea, but it would fit better a dark themed story.

Cutie marks do represent the raison d'etre on the pony universe.

Soul expressivity, as we call it. Creative nature. The further you go into creation, the more you feel. More advanced beings would rather kill their selves, than having to deal with a meaningless existence, without Creation. Without being able to express their inner Truth. Without themselves, within the physical body.

Thus leaving, becoming one with their deprived, inner-most essence once again.
 

 

Haven't you noticed it yet, inside of you? Pure bliss.
 

[Buck Testa 5,505]

 

 

I'm not 100% on board with the theory of the cutie mark as "sentient" just yet.  

 

 

I see them as sentient in the same way that Wands in Harry Potter are sentient. 

 

 

A wand is a quasi-sentient magical instrument through which a witch or wizard channels her or his magical powers to centralize the effects for more complex results.

 

I do not see the mane six all being present at the Dash's first Rainboom to be a coincidence, especially since one of them was literally dragged by her own magic to be present for it and have her cutie mark appear (my theory says that cutie marks are there before they show up on the flank)

[CC_Maud_Pie 6,431]

While cutie marks can control ponies the way you describe, they're also good at shaping a ponies personality. To me, getting a cutie mark is a big transition because it helps ponies discover who they really are and what they're destiny is. But it can get crazy, especially with a cutie pox or with ponies' cutie marks changing, which changes their daily lives like what we saw in Magical Mystery Cure. My advice to foals who want a cutie mark is "Find out what your destiny really is."

[RainbowTashie 378]

I think cutie marks should be very loosely applied really i mean half the time the image doesn't even depict what they are good at :S 

[#1FluttershyFan 206]

I think this is a really interesting theory. I dont' think I totally believe it, though. I mean, with cutie pox, that's a disease. I don't think it's the cutie marks themselves because society wasn't expecting apple bloom to do all the things that appeared on her. I think it was something that effected the motor cortex of the infected's brain. It makes them do whatever appears. Now I'm not sure how the disease has these different abilities programmed into it unless it was created through magic or science. 

 

In magical mystery cure, that was a very powerful spell and it wasn't that society expected the mane 6 to do their talents just because of what was on their butt. I think the spell was so powerful that it litterally changed the memories of either the mane 6 or all of ponyville. I know Rarity said somethign about doing the weather since her cutie mark appeared. This is just my theory on the subject.

[Buck Testa 5,505]

I think this is a really interesting theory. I dont' think I totally believe it, though. I mean, with cutie pox, that's a disease. I don't think it's the cutie marks themselves because society wasn't expecting apple bloom to do all the things that appeared on her.

 

I have an answer for that that I used when this topic was going the first time; Cutie Marks under normal circumstances are passive, they do not make a notable exertion unless they are either trying to get a point across (like Rarity) or if something changes it (like a spell or a disease). When this happens they turn from passive to active and the pony in question has no control over it, or at least according to the theory anyway. It was part of my initial few posts on this matter. 

 

I think it was something that effected the motor cortex of the infected's brain. It makes them do whatever appears. Now I'm not sure how the disease has these different abilities programmed into it unless it was created through magic or science. 

 

Cutie pox's seems to make artificial cutie marks that are set to active and are not as complicated as the genuine article. It kind of reminded me of Malware on a computer. Regular cutie marks are more catered to the pony and they enhance/focuses the pony magic in their "special talents" and such. Again according to the theory

 

In magical mystery cure, that was a very powerful spell and it wasn't that society expected the mane 6 to do their talents just because of what was on their butt. I think the spell was so powerful that it litterally changed the memories of either the mane 6 or all of ponyville. I know Rarity said somethign about doing the weather since her cutie mark appeared. This is just my theory on the subject.

 

Exactly, their memories were changed to fit the cutie marks they had. Society expected them to behave that way because they were programmed to believe they would act that way by the cutie marks. The Spell directly dealt with the cutie marks and this was the result. Why would switching cutie marks have such a substantial change unless they were far more connected to pony society than anyone realized?

 

Its just a theory at the end of the day and one episode could blow it out of the water, but in four seasons and two movies that hasn't happened yet AND season 5 has implications that strongly support my theory (hopefully *fingers crossed*)

 

Whats the pony equivalent of fingers crossed anyway?

[Soaring Symphony 372]

I really like your headcanon!

Cutie marks don't force the ponies to do what they represent though (unlike the cutie pox).

exacty!!!!!  the cutie pox is really just a weird disease.  real cutie marks don't work that way at all.

Its just a theory at the end of the day and one episode could blow it out of the water, but in four seasons and two movies that hasn't happened yet AND season 5 has implications that strongly support my theory (hopefully *fingers crossed*)

 

Whats the pony equivalent of fingers crossed anyway?

I don't agree. Here's what I think happened in magical mystery cure.  When Twilight read the broken spell, that magic channeled through her element to all the others fundimentally altering which element represented what.  For example, the element of kindness became the element of laughter.  when this happened, the ponies most directly connected to the elements were effected as well.  For example, AJ's element suddenly represented not honesty, but genorosity, so she was given false memories of her being genorous.  The same goes for the rest of the mane six (excluding Twilight of course).  Considering that the EoH are more or less the driving force of nature in Equestria, I think everypony else may have had thier memories altered as well, (although to a lesser extent).  When the mane six's memories changed as a result of thier elements changing, their cutie marks changed to reflect that.  In other words, a cutie mark is the result of a ponies percieved ideas of their natural talents, not the other way around.

Edited January 24, 2015 by The thoughtful brony

[Eloquence 2,076]

This is an interesting theory, and I suppose a plausible one. I think my one hangup with it is that cutie marks don't seem to do anything beyond what societal pressures do to humans (excluding the times when diseases or powerful magics are involved). I mean, humans commonly experience pressures to behave a certain way, and are rewarded or punished for conforming or not conforming to what they're meant to be based on their appearance. 

 

If a cutie mark is to be taken as an expression of a pony's true self, then it stands to reason that they would be happier following it than not, just as humans are happier when given the freedom to be who they really are. If one wanted to they could even read Magical Mystery Cure as a sort of allegory for the dangers of forcing people into roles they don't belong in.

 

Season five will prove really interesting in terms of this debate. The question though, is whether it is those equals sign marks forcing ponies to all be the same, or whether they are just the physical manifestation of the dark conformity magic forcing them all to be the same. It's kind of like a "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" argument.  

 

And that same argument goes for cutie marks in general too. Does the personality create the cutie mark, or is it the other way around? I'm not sure this question could even be answered, since the two are so intimately connected and the effects would be essentially the same in either case.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Eloquence

[#1FluttershyFan 206]

Exactly, their memories were changed to fit the cutie marks they had. Society expected them to behave that way because they were programmed to believe they would act that way by the cutie marks. The Spell directly dealt with the cutie marks and this was the result. Why would switching cutie marks have such a substantial change unless they were far more connected to pony society than anyone realized? 

 

I don't think it's that society expected the ponies to go with their cutie marks. I think society ALLOWED them to go with it. I realize that these ponies are probably well known in ponyville or at least have many friends there (mostly Pinkie Pie) but some of the cutie marks blend in to the coats of the ponies (particularly Fluttershy with Pinkie's cutie mark). I can only say that either the ponies didn't notice that the cutie marks changed or didn't care (which is very unlikely). They may have noticed that the cutie marks changed but if so, I'm not sure why ponies weren't freaking out. In their eyes (since they didn't know Twilight did the spell) the pony either has cutie pox or is a witch, both of which would warrant some action on the bystanders' part but I don't think their thought process was "Oh, her cutie mark changed. This happens all the time and even though she doesn't seem totally comfortable with her job, it must be okay because her butt says so." These are pretty sensible ponies so I just don't think they noticed.

Edited January 25, 2015 by #1FluttershyFan