The dangers of Cutie Marks

[Buck Testa 5,503]

So recently I have watched all the cutie marked themed episodes and there is evidence to say that cutie marks are potentially dangerous to a pony, especially on a psychological level.

 

A cutie mark as we know forms when a pony finds something they are good at and amplifies the individuals ability to do that said task. Sounds great right? However both Cutie pox and the season three fanale showed that cutie marks do more than ramps up a talent.

 

It makes this task a compulsion to the point where it is against the ponies will. Even if the ponies personality did not match with the cutie mark they were compelled to perform the talent or talents. Cutie pox had this effect ramped up, but just because the normal cutie marks are more subtlle about it doesnt mean they do not enforce behavior according to the talent.

 

Where is the evidence that ponies are forced by regular cutie marks to do a task they normally would do anyway? The answer can be found in the various mental break downs the ponies have had through the series. These symbols on their flanks use positive and negative reenforcement much the same way a drug does. Ponies who do what they are told to do feel good and get affirmation from those around them that they are doing the right thing. However if they are not up to par and not receiving that positive high from their cutie mark they have major withdrawl and psychological breakdowns that only get reversed wheb they are back on track.

 

If pinkie could not plan parties for ponies what would happen to her? We saw what happened. If fluttershy couldnt get animals to listen to her snd do what she asked what would happen to her? We already saw this happen as well.

 

Now you take ponies used to a certain cutie mark and then have to fill the demands of another what would happen? They would be forced to try as hard as they can to fill the role and not getting enough of a fix with the cutie mark to be on their emotional norm. What is worse is that this does not just affect the pony in question but the worlds perception of them. Even if they are not suited for the task society tells them they have to do what the cutie mark is already coercing them to do. It seems the cutie marks are designed to do this, perhaps they were something that was instilled in pony society and they only think that cutie marks happen naturally because so many generations have gone by?

 

So to recap: this theory states that cutie marks are in fact a way to control the way a pony behaves through coersive methods and will strongly react if the pony is not able to meet the marks requirements or wishes to do something with their life other than what is depicted on their mark.

 

What are your thoughts on this headcanon and what holes do you see in my theory? The more you can tear into it the better, but have evidence to back up counter arguements.

 

my only rule: If your only answer is "well its just a kid show" then you need not answer. That answer does not promote discussion.

[Pastel 7,627]

I really like your headcanon!

Cutie marks don't force the ponies to do what they represent though (unlike the cutie pox).

Edited August 17, 2014 by Blobulle

[Vemillia Nightshade 2,247]

Actually, I find this interesting. It seems this theory is thesable to both the headcannon and in a reality stand point. In a messed up way, the cutiemarks are like enslavement marks in some way.

[boiteporte 591]

Cutie marks merely show the pony what he's good at. It does not force him to do anything. The examples the OP mentioned about season 3 happened because the cutie marks have been altered. The first one with the Cutie Pox and the second one with a spell. 

 

It was unnatural and it is what caused all the problems.

I mean, Cheese Sandwich has a cheese sandwich as a cutie mark. But that does not mean he is forced to make sandwiches for the rest of his life.

 

It just shows that he is good at making cheese sandwiches I guess, even if he chose a totally different path to follow, lol.

[Vemillia Nightshade 2,247]

I really like your headcanon!

Cutie marks don't force the ponies to do what they represent though (unlike the cutie pox).

 

Actually if you think about, the cutiemark does still force you to follow your talent but, like Buck Testa said, it could subtlety affect you. The cutiepox is a more extreme version of it.

[Pastel 7,627]

It was unnatural and it is what caused all the problems.

I mean, Cheese Sandwich has a cheese sandwich as a cutie mark. But that does not mean he is forced to make sandwiches for the rest of his life.

 

It just shows that he is good at making cheese sandwiches I guess, even if he chose a totally different path to follow, lol.

Regarding Cheese Sandwich, his cutie mark represents his stage name (Cheese Sandwich), and so indirectly the fact he's a party pony.

[boiteporte 591]

 

 

Regarding Cheese Sandwich, his cutie mark represents his stage name (Cheese Sandwich), and so indirectly the fact he's a party pony.

 

You made a good point there..... 

[Venomous 18,813]

Cutie marks merely represent what that pony is talented at.

The cutie mark itself doesn't force the host to do anything.

 

In the episode 'The Cutie Pox', the description of the disease reads "... Forces the pony to do all the talents that came with them".

The keyword there is "forces".

 

I think that the only time a cutie mark would be considered hazardous, would be if a pony had a talent in doing something that could be dangerous.

Such as animal control, cliff diving, or alligator wrangling.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Royal Samurott

[Buck Testa 5,503]

Cutie marks merely show the pony what he's good at. It does not force him to do anything. The examples the OP mentioned about season 3 happened because the cutie marks have been altered. The first one with the Cutie Pox and the second one with a spell.

 

It was unnatural and it is what caused all the problems.

I mean, Cheese Sandwich has a cheese sandwich as a cutie mark. But that does not mean he is forced to make sandwiches for the rest of his life.

 

It just shows that he is good at making cheese sandwiches I guess, even if he chose a totally different path to follow, lol.

Cutie marks display a concept. Cheese's cutie mark is for parties like Pinkie pie. As such that is what he does. He likes this path so he does not resist it, but if he were to wake up one day and have a mid life crisis his cutie mark would squash any deviance from what it represents like what happened to pinkie pie.

[Jeric 46,835]

Talent. Occupation. Cutie Mark. Not. Mutually. Inclusive.

 

Perhaps 5-01 will give us more to to dwell on.

[Old Fluttershy 349]

I don't think that the Cutie Marks "force" ponies to do anything. In Rarity tales Manehattan we see the others helping her make dresses even though their Cutie Marks have nothing to do with dress making. We see this again in many other episodes.

As for the whole mental breakdown angle Pinkie's may have had something to do with the fact that her party was being avoided. But what pushed her over the edge was the fact that she thought her friends had abandoned her not that they avoided her party. Plus Twilight's breakdown in Lesson Zero had nothing to do with her Cutie Mark, it had to do with the fact that she was going to be tardy with an assignment. And if you consider Twilights breakdown in It's About Time again it had nothing to do with her Cutie Mark but instead of some huge disaster that was "going" to happen.

 

Besides, in Season 3 Finale, IF Cutie Marks ramped up talent then shouldn't the ponies have done better at their jobs than they did?

[Buck Testa 5,503]

Talent. Occupation. Cutie Mark. Not. Mutually. Inclusive.

 

Perhaps 5-01 will give us more to to dwell on.

Care to elaborate? I am not sure what you are getting at with all the periods. I would not want to put words in your mouth (or text box) before making a counter arguement.

I don't think that the Cutie Marks "force" ponies to do anything. In Rarity tales Manehattan we see the others helping her make dresses even though their Cutie Marks have nothing to do with dress making. We see this again in many other episodes.

As for the whole mental breakdown angle Pinkie's may have had something to do with the fact that her party was being avoided. But what pushed her over the edge was the fact that she thought her friends had abandoned her not that they avoided her party. Plus Twilight's breakdown in Lesson Zero had nothing to do with her Cutie Mark, it had to do with the fact that she was going to be tardy with an assignment. And if you consider Twilights breakdown in It's About Time again it had nothing to do with her Cutie Mark but instead of some huge disaster that was "going" to happen.

 

Besides, in Season 3 Finale, IF Cutie Marks ramped up talent then shouldn't the ponies have done better at their jobs than they did?

If you look I made the distinction that cutie pox Forces while cutie marks COERSE with a reward punishment system. One is more passive but still does the same thing as the active enforcement of the cutie pox

 

One can have a mental break on their own, and I made sure not to mention twi cause she is prone to that. Flutters and Pinkie on the other hand suffered this because they were unable to prform their cutie mark.

 

It aplifies, but if there is not a lot there to bolster they can only go so far.

[Fractured 2,683]

Interesting. I really can't find flaws with this theory. When a pony is unable to exhibit their special talent, breakdowns do tend to occur. Like Pinkie Pie. And Twilight Sparkle. And Rainbow Dash. It's an existential crisis that would happen to anyone if they found out their life had no purpose.

[Tao 6,738]

What I find interesting in truth is when it comes to a more wide

world scale its only the ponies who seem to get the marks but

is it only in Equestria?  Also if so,  why don't other races get

things like cutie marks?  So does it just hit the pony or pony like

races alone?   How could the show change say if other races did

get cutie marks like the dragons and griffins and such? 

 

Or is there a deeper unseen reason?    Could Tia have used

her magic long ago to use the marks to tie the ponies down

and give them a limit?   Which yes Twilight,  has risen above

but her cutie mark shows a talent for magic.   What if her talent

had been something different?  Would that effect who she is?

[Jeric 46,835]

Well, I've elucidated on this topic several times, but the short of it is this -- ones occupation is not always determined by their talent/cutie mark. Nor does the talent itself go perfectly hand in hand with finding the occupation you so desire. Unless you make the point that Rarity is the exception that proves the rule, but I wouldn't see how that is. Rarity already had ambition and desire to be an artist through fashion. Her Cutie Mark only revealed itself when an instinctual unlearned gift to locate gems manifested itself. Rarity's Cutie mark does not just represent dress making, nor does it represent Generosity. It more complex than that.

 

 

The Cutie Marks don't control your destiny completely. You have free will, with some predestination. I think it is both. Because of free will ... nopony is unhappy.

 

</Forest Gump>

 

I have a feeling that Season 5 opener may address this a little. Bookmark this and quote it in November or January or however long it takes.

 

 

And you are confusing creating an archetype as a story catalyst with complex character building. They are not the same thing. But your headcanon is just as valid as mind.

[NiceVillains 244]

 

My opinion, is cutie marks can be detrimental. They were a fashion choice to make the characters more appealing by filling in their most bare location with a mark.

 

But, blank flanks are also mistreated.

 

Not to mention, what if ponies want to be good at multiple unrelated tasks? This prevents them from doing that. This causes emotional attachment to one lifestyle choice which could be described as an obsession. A healthier person has several interests, as far as I know.

 

Then, alot of us might feel like blank flanks. Imagine if there are blank flanks, how would they be treated? A lot of people don't know what they are good at so having a concept like that, makes it seem like everyone should know what they should do. Although the decision was made with children in mind more than adults, as most receive them as a child it'd seem, if not all. 

 

In which case cutie marks can be good, if they are bound to happen, it can give people a little bit of help who otherwise would not know what they want in life.

[Visual Spectrum 1,932]

If you had a job, and you got a position of a cook, you would cook. You aren't forced to cook, you can quit anytime. However, you would probably still try to improve your cooking skills if you aren't a good cook. That is basically how Magical Mystery Cure was. It was like a manager telling them to do different jobs. They still tried to do that job, but they weren't forced to.

 

Cutie Pox is a disease that does make ponies do what their cutie marks tell them to, though.

 

Interesting theory, though. 

[Fractured 2,683]

My opinion, is cutie marks can be detrimental. They were a fashion choice to make the characters more appealing by filling in their most bare location with a mark.

 

But, blank flanks are also mistreated.

 

Not to mention, what if ponies want to be good at multiple unrelated tasks? This prevents them from doing that. This causes emotional attachment to one lifestyle choice which could be described as an obsession. A healthier person has several interests, as far as I know.

 

Then, alot of us might feel like blank flanks. Imagine if there are blank flanks, how would they be treated? A lot of people don't know what they are good at so having a concept like that, makes it seem like everyone should know what they should do. Although the decision was made with children in mind more than adults, as most receive them as a child it'd seem, if not all. 

 

In which case cutie marks can be good, if they are bound to happen, it can give people a little bit of help who otherwise would not know what they want in life.

It seems like ponies generally love what they do,though, at least, we've never seen anyone complain about it. They know where they fit and they never really question otherwise.

[NiceVillains 244]

It seems like ponies generally love what they do,though, at least, we've never seen anyone complain about it. They know where they fit and they never really question otherwise.

And when they do have different cutie marks, it didnt work out for them. The cutie marks are probably meant to be positive. Its when its misused it becomes painful. 

[Old Fluttershy 349]

 

Flutters and Pinkie on the other hand  suffered this because they were  unable to perform their cutie marks.

 

But during Party Of One Pinkie was still able to throw parties, the whole reason for her breakdown was because she believed her friends didn't want to be her friends anymore. If you watch the episode again Pinkie doesn't lose it until Spike "confirmed" her friends didn't want to be her friends anymore. And if you want to throw Pinkie Pride in there it wasn't REALLY a breakdown more of a wanting to be the best thing.

 

Well, if Twilight is prone to this then why do you think that is?

Edited August 17, 2014 by Old Fluttershy

[Buck Testa 5,503]

But during Party Of One Pinkie was still able to throw parties, the whole reason for her breakdown was because she believed her friends didn't want to be her friends anymore. If you watch the episode again Pinkie doesn't lose it until Spike "confirmed" her friends didn't want to be her friends anymore. And if you want to throw Pinkie Pride in there it wasn't REALLY a breakdown more of a wanting to be the best thing.

 

Well, if Twilight is prone to this then why do you think that is?

I see where you are coming from with the assumption that Pinkie only lost it in the Spike interrogation scene however I would have to disagree. I remember this episode quite well, Pinkie throws a party and everything works out great with her friends. She gets her affirmation that she did good from her cutie mark and her friends. She likes this feeling so much she decides to throw another party the very next day. Her birthday does not even cross her mind because she is so enamored with throwing parties for her friends and fellow ponies. Her friends wish to surprise her so they avoid her. This is where she starts going off the deep end. With each rejection and veiled exuse her demeanor gets palpably tense and almost creepy. Mental cues that she isnt performing up to par with her cutie marks calling start going off and she is desperate to make the bad feelings go away. Her thought processes which are already skewed are now racing with senarios and delusions that her friends do not love her or her parties and want nothing to do with her. By the time she interrogates spike the psychotic break was already well underway, he just helped give it that last little nudge. Its the party she through then that proves my point. Instead of just crying or moping she makes hasty puppets out of whatever she can find to simulate a party and try to trick herself into believing that her purpose is still valid and her cutie mark can reward her. Odd twinges and straight up hallucinations happening as she spirals. If Rainbow had not of shown up who knows how far it could of gone. Once the positive feedback happened she INSTANTLY recovered, that is not normal.

 

As for Twilight, my head canon psychological profile of Pre Alicorn twilight is fodder for another topic, but lets just say while she loves Celestia she is scared to death of losing her favor.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Buck Testa

[Fractured 2,683]

But during Party Of One Pinkie was still able to throw parties, the whole reason for her breakdown was because she believed her friends didn't want to be her friends anymore. If you watch the episode again Pinkie doesn't lose it until Spike "confirmed" her friends didn't want to be her friends anymore. And if you want to throw Pinkie Pride in there it wasn't REALLY a breakdown more of a wanting to be the best thing.

 

Well, if Twilight is prone to this then why do you think that is?

By failing to live up to Celestia's expectations, her special talent of being exceptional at magic was in jeopardy. More so for her than others, because she'd also be disappointing Celestia, the princess of equestria, her technical employer, and her pseudo mother figure.

[Phosphorous 135]

I think that cutie marks are only markings on the fur. The value given to them, as in the episode "Magical Mystery Cure", is only based pony society's expectations, that believes that you must be good at what is on your cutie mark, thus you must do it. "Magical Mystery Cure" was a fight between the five's ego (who they are, what they are good at), and their superego (what society expects them to be and do). The cutie marks are not dangerous, but ponies' attitudes towards them are.

 

Another danger is that if the automatic cutie mark becomes a widely misinterpreted symbol. For the sake of this example, I will pretend that the ponies share common human history. If a young filly is interested in Anthropology, especially the Proto-Indo-European migrations, and earns a swastika cutiemark (symbol of the P.I.E.s), her mark would be misinterpreted by many who aren't knowledgeable in such topics. Many would assume that she got a cutiemark in being a Nazi, and her explanations would not be listened to, and regarded as excuses. Such a filly would be outcasted by many.

[Malinter 3,064]

the animatic for season 5 might give more detail on this with those ponies who all share the same mark.

 

I don't think a cutie mark influences a pony that much.

 

However.

 

It would seem that there are magics out their that transform a pony's personality though it. I imagine this is because the pony defines themselves with the memory of acquiring the mark, so changing the mark, changes the memory. This makes sense with the mane6 saying "this is what my cutie mark is telling me". They have the memory of the cutie mark from the original pony and have assumed the memory is theirs.

 

Even if you have knowledge on how to do something, doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to do it which is why the ponies are failing to do the natural talant the mark is supposed to bestow.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Shire Pony Malinter

[Silverrida 35]

I feel like the assumption that not performing your cutie mark forces it to manipulate you into a breakdown is a far too brazen assumption with far too little evidence behind it. Specifically, concerning the other possibilities for a mental breakdown occurring.

 

Your cutie mark is supposed to represent your talent. However, I think it's fair to say the interpretation of a cutie mark and an ideographic basis is nebulous at best. A trio of lightning bolts made of rainbows means lightning fast and loving racing but also excellent control over the weather. A series of smiling flowers represents children as they bloom. There are many ways a cutie mark can appear one way but mean something completely different. And the way you get to define it, much as Cheerilee has, is sort of what instills it with meaning. You make the meaning. Sure, it'd be difficult for Cheese Sandwich to justify his cutie mark as an indicator that he is great at quantum physics but many possibilities are still open.

 

Though the mark may come with a specific meaning the individual's interpretation is important as well. When Rarity gets RD's cutie mark which is ostensibly representative of racing she immediately goes to work messing with the weather. And she's terrible at it! But why does the cutie mark for Rarity mean weather manipulation when for RD it means racing? Because there is individual input on the impact of the cutie mark.

 

All of this leads to an alternative reason for the mental breakdowns of the characters. Imagine you identify with something you are really good at. Hell, I'll use my own career path and desires as a base. I want to be a psychologist. I love helping people get through heir mental diseases and blocks. But one day I go into work and every client who comes in basically leaves within 10 minutes saying I'm just not helping them. What will happen to me? I'd probably have a mental breakdown! This has been my calling, I've been doing it all my life, and I just can't do it at all? That is easily a jarring enough experience for a mental breakdown, in my opinion.

 

Basically, there's no need to attribute the mental breakdowns to the supernatural force of the cutie marks. They've all already identified with their talents enough that if they just stopped being able to do it that would easily justify a breakdown.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Silverrida