movies/tv I Don't Like "Frozen"...0_0

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

I don't like Frozen.

This entire post covers most of my gripes with it. Bless.

A lot of her complaints seem weird to me like there not being a clear antagonist from the beginning. I actually thought that was one of the things that made it great was the dropping of red herrings instead of just making it obvious who is the bad guy from the start.

 

I also found it odd that she was saying that trolls don't traditionally have magic. In folklore and pop-culture trolls are not super clearly defined, so it's not like there are some sort of rules for how they're supposed to be presented.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Andaasonsan

[Mephala 2,633]

A lot of her complaints seem weird to me like there not being a clear antagonist from the beginning. I actually thought that was one of the things that made it great was the dropping of red herrings instead of just making it obvious who is the bad guy from the start.

It was primarily that it was difficult to connect with a villain who just...was, all of a sudden. For me, at least.

I don't think every film needs an antagonist, and this was one...Hans, to me, felt practically pointless. I dunno.

[TenorSounds 832]

I think it's overrated, but I don't think it's bad. In fact, I think it's quite good! I loved the visuals and the music, and the moment-to-moment comedy was spot-on. Of course we could pick apart how the writers should have done the plot, or certain, characters, or whatever, but regardless they still put out a fairly good movie that was met with wide critical appeal.

 

I just usually find the complaint of "it's not how I would have written it" to be pretty shallow on closer examination. It is possible to over-analyze something.

Edited December 13, 2014 by TenorSounds

[Tao 7,629]

I loved the visual effects and all and when I watched,

i like the flick but once it hit the big wave of main stream, I

sort went like,  "Yah its a ok flick,  has good parts and some

nice music but its the goddess gift to CG movies...."

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

It was primarily that it was difficult to connect with a villain who just...was, all of a sudden. For me, at least.

I don't think every film needs an antagonist, and this was one...Hans, to me, felt practically pointless. I dunno.

I don't know if you were really supposed to connect with him all that much anyway. He's not going to go down as one of the all time greatest Disney villains, but the movie wasn't really about him so much as it was about Elsa's internal conflict. He served a purpose in the story, not all characters have to be memorable or really fleshed out.

I think it's overrated, but I don't think it's bad. In fact, I think it's quite good! I loved the visuals and the music, and the moment-to-moment comedy was spot-on. Of course we could pick apart how the writers should have done the plot, or certain, characters, or whatever, but regardless they still put out a fairly good movie that was met with wide critical appeal.

 

I just don't usually find the complaint of "it's not how I would have written it" to be pretty shallow on closer examination. It is possible to over-analyze something.

You've expressed something very well that I've never quite been able to put into words. A lot of internet criticism seems to come down to "I think the story should have gone this way" and all you can really say in response is "well that's just not the direction they went with".

[RunsWithSquirlz 274]

I honestly enjoyed the fact that Frozen made you wonder who was the antagonist. And the reveal of Hans was as good as any, who would have expected him?

 

Elsa should have been developed more, yes. But this movie wasnt made with the intention of older teens and adults to pick it apart. Like i said, its for young girls (or boys) and it sends a message that they can understand. It's not complicated, it's pretty and fantastical. Just right to keep thier attention.

 

Thats why theres so many young ones dressed up as Elsa for Halloween and crap. She's thier hero and want to be strong like her, same as Anna.

 

Musically, i thought it was pretty dull compared to the rest of the Disney catalog. But then again, nothing will ever compare to our "Hakuna Matata" "Whole New World" "Beauty and the Beast" etc. Because thqts what we grew up on. Just like thesw kids will grow up on the music of Disney today.

[VitalSpark 1,830]

A lot of her complaints seem weird to me like there not being a clear antagonist from the beginning. I actually thought that was one of the things that made it great was the dropping of red herrings instead of just making it obvious who is the bad guy from the start.

 

I agree. That's quite possibly my favourite aspect to Frozen. The villain isn't a ridiculous Evil Queen-like character.

 

I mean if you watch Snow White, or 101 Dalmations, or Aladdin, or hell, even one of the recent ones like The Princess and the Frog, really, what is the difference between the Evil Queen, Cruella de Vil, Jafar, and Dr Facilier? Mostly voices and visuals. They're all variations on the same trope. Throwaway opponents. You could swap the villains around from all these films and it would make zero difference to the plot. Zero difference.

 

With Frozen we have a slick villain who charms his way into the protagonist's heart. Hell, he charms his way into the audience's hearts. Everybody's on his side, right up until. Doing that was so unusual for a Disney film; for a children's film in general. Betray the protagonist, the audience sees it; betray the audience; the audience feels it.

 

(I'll add that in Tangled we have another non-cliché Disney villain. You don't have the sudden reveal that Frozen gives you; the villain is clear from the start. But the controlling passive-aggressive relationship Mother Gothel has with Rapunzel is simply delicious. It's so much more of a complex relationship than the standard Ima-gonna-send-unreliable-henchmen-to-kill-y'all style Disney villain. You do actually get the feeling that, as much as it is possible for Mother Gothel to love anybody, she loves Rapunzel. It's not until quite near the end that you start to realise that she's beyond redemption.)

 

I should point out that Frozen and Tangled are not just two of my favourite animated films ever, but two of my favourite of any films ever. I'm perfectly happy for people to have different opinions about them. To be honest there are things about Frozen that I would change. But to make the unpredictability of the antagonist out to be a bad thing is just silly. Who wants a predictable film? Besides which, despite what that rant claims, there's some very nice foreshadowing. In Hans' big love song his first line is "I've been searching my whole life to find my own place" which is precisely the motive for his villainy.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Vital Sparkle

[~Sugar Sprinkles~ 638]

At first when I saw Frozen in theaters, I really liked it. But then, the media happened and everyone on the internet made it a thing, which I don't get why...?? It got SOOO overrated and somehow made more money than a lot of good Disney movies, like the Lion King, which was for awhile, the most. best Disney movie ever made (Still the best in my opinion). 

 

After it being on the internet and the whole "Let it go" EVERYWHERE!! It kind of has gotten very annoying. Now that i realize it, the story was not so great. They left out a lot in the story, like HOW DID ELSA get her powers?? Why? Did someone in her family got them? Did she have some accident with snow/ice?? Did she get "blessed" with them? I think their parents dying way too soon in the beginning of the movie was a little bit too much and the girls were seen like...alone, which had barely any adults present (which I'm sure there was adults raising them..but...). I dunno, there was so many unexplained things and it seemed like it happened too fast and the story could have been better. I mean, I think Tangled was honestly better, the story was great, and it had some great comedy in it.

 

Frozen just has gotten way too out of hand.......and....there's suppose to be a sequel -.- I think next year...

[Radiance64 7,053]

I don't hate Frozen, I think it's just okay. But, seeing it everywhere is getting kind of annoying... I get that it's way big with kids, but it's been over a year... Let it go already

[Yozer247 1,006]

I cant help but grow a certain malevolence towards it since it keeps getting voted on eqtv movie night  :okiedokielokie:

[VitalSpark 1,830]

They left out a lot in the story, like HOW DID ELSA get her powers?? Why? Did someone in her family got them? Did she have some accident with snow/ice?? Did she get "blessed" with them?

 

Did you miss the line a few minutes into the film where the troll asks the king "born with the powers or cursed?" and the king replies "born".

 

I think their parents dying way too soon in the beginning of the movie was a little bit too much and the girls were seen like...alone, which had barely any adults present (which I'm sure there was adults raising them..but...).

 

Elsa was crowned three years after their parents died (there's a "Three Years Later" caption on screen), and at the time of her coronation was supposed to be 21, according to the writer Jennifer Lee. So there was at least one adult present: Elsa herself. Anna is supposed to be 3 years younger than Elsa, so was not too far off being an adult herself. The castle clearly had staff too - two of them named Kai and Gerda are fairly prominently featured. (Their names are a reference to the Hans Christian Anderson tale.) Hans appears to be Elsa's right-hand man.

 

Frozen just has gotten way too out of hand.......and....there's suppose to be a sequel -.- I think next year...

 

It's not a real sequel. Just a short, like Tangled Ever After.

 

Also...

[Cloud Strife 928]

I don't know if you were really supposed to connect with him all that much anyway. He's not going to go down as one of the all time greatest Disney villains, but the movie wasn't really about him so much as it was about Elsa's internal conflict. He served a purpose in the story, not all characters have to be memorable or really fleshed out.

 

Ehh. If the movie was supposed to be about that, I don't think it did a very good job. Elsa hardly did anything except screw things up for the entire plot.

 

Also, by 'I can't connect with him' I think it's more like 'he came out of freaking nowhere'. I don't need to understand his motivations, no, but it seems like part way through writing the movie they realized, "Shoot, we're not using Elsa as our villain anymore, are we? Who the heck is supposed to be the villain!??" and then they pointed to Hans. He even makes this little smile at Anna when no one is looking at him which, as was adequately put in one review, "is a cheat in the narrative". It's purposely throwing you off with an action that would be completely nonsensical with his later behavior.

 

Also, I find that the dismissal of complaints with "it's not the way I would have written it" is a completely gross oversimplification of the complaints that are being levied at this movie. The thing is, this movie didn't do anything new, certainly not enough to warrant it the attention that it received. Every single "clever" little subverted trope that they did has been done before in other movies and with a lot more heart than this in your face "see? see?? we can write princess movies without romance!"

[~Sugar Sprinkles~ 638]

Did you miss the line a few minutes into the film where the troll asks the king "born with the powers or cursed?" and the king replies "born".

 

 

Elsa was crowned three years after their parents died (there's a "Three Years Later" caption on screen), and at the time of her coronation was supposed to be 21, according to the writer Jennifer Lee. So there was at least one adult present: Elsa herself. Anna is supposed to be 3 years younger than Elsa, so was not too far off being an adult herself. The castle clearly had staff too - two of them named Kai and Gerda are fairly prominently featured. (Their names are a reference to the Hans Christian Anderson tale.) Hans appears to be Elsa's right-hand man.

 

 

It's not a real sequel. Just a short, like Tangled Ever After.

 

Also...

f006dbad17435c04d4b3d6d9ed9b309699ec8f82a156967ba55e451e96e42729.jpg

 

 

You like the movie? Cool. I don't like the movie a whole lot? That's fine. And I seen it ONCE. I don't really remember a whole lot and I did not pay much attention. I liked it, but not loved it. And I heard it was going to be a sequel. Not a short. If its a short, then okay, but I heard a sequel. I HEARD!! Whether its going to be a short or a sequel, I really don't care. 

 

I may see it, I dunno. Thank you for being the expert on this and whatnot. I still don't like the movie a whole lot, so no matter what you or anyone says, you cannot change the opinion. The story was not my favorite and I think it could have been a little better. Everybody has opinions, thanks.

Did you miss the line a few minutes into the film where the troll asks the king "born with the powers or cursed?" and the king replies "born".

 

 

Elsa was crowned three years after their parents died (there's a "Three Years Later" caption on screen), and at the time of her coronation was supposed to be 21, according to the writer Jennifer Lee. So there was at least one adult present: Elsa herself. Anna is supposed to be 3 years younger than Elsa, so was not too far off being an adult herself. The castle clearly had staff too - two of them named Kai and Gerda are fairly prominently featured. (Their names are a reference to the Hans Christian Anderson tale.) Hans appears to be Elsa's right-hand man.

 

 

It's not a real sequel. Just a short, like Tangled Ever After.

 

Also...

f006dbad17435c04d4b3d6d9ed9b309699ec8f82a156967ba55e451e96e42729.jpg

 Oh and I don't dislike it because its popular, I just didnt like the story and Yes, its a little overrated, I did not say I HATED IT. Its not my favorite. I STILL kinda like it. I just think its a little too overhyped. A lot of people think its overrated, not just me. 

[Virgil 685]

The thing about Frozen is that it was suppose to be about the snow queen and they made it something else completely... Why because the one actor wanted the whole story on her character....

 

The music didnt fit together at all... Ever disney movie has a certain genre and this one was very random and poorly put together...

Yes this kinda summarizes some of my issues. Although I would honestly give the film a B- ( note: that is like a 7.5 on a scale from 1-10, any film that get's an A of some kind from me, while not perfect, is a "Classic Film"), although I would give the writing a B+.

The trouble with the movie largely stems from the fact that they had a great idea, "Let's make a film where the antagonist is reformed by an act of self sacrifice on the part of the protagonist!" but the execution didn't work out, because Disney 1 ) made the audience forget that Elsa is the stories antagonist (shocking reveal about guy during the last 15 minutes does not make one the stories antagonist proper) and 2 ) Disney execs are at this point making films, they can turn into musicals in five minutes now....  :okiedokielokie:

 

Case in Point: the VA they chose for Elsa, was textbook miscasting. I am not saying she is a bad actress ( she has a great voice and all that), but that her voice doesn't fit the role of Elsa. Elsa is the type of character who is becoming a good person, not good person becoming villain as is the case in the VAs work in the musical Wicked ( in which case it is great casting). The opening song has a flippin line' ,"Beware the frozen heart", the story is about Elsa's 'frozen heart'... melting ( sorry about the unintentional puns). The VA sounds too... warm ( ach! can't escape ), and then the song "Let it Go" should have been story boarded better and done in a different key as it is not the "I'm finally free!" song it is the "I don't want to deal with people!" song. One of the lines is "the cold never bothered me anyway", cold has not yet been used in a positive sense, that line could be clarified to read "My cold never bothered me anyway".

If you think I'm reading to much into that and then please tell me then how can I interpret Elsa's actions as not being selfish ( she had a tough childhood, I'm sympathetic, but so did a number of other Disney villains apparently; but I have yet to hear someone justify the character Scar's actions and some early interactions in The Lion King with him and his brother, which cause me to suspect his relationship with his brother and parents wasn't very good). Every time someone approaches Elsa, saying "Your kinda causing untold suffering on your people, via ice storm", they get met with her uncontrolled angst and fear. The fact that it is Han's that has to point blank tell Elsa, "Don't become the monster they think you are", should be evidence enough.

 

So while the writing is there (I did say I gave it a B+) is there, bad production choices in other areas really distract from what could have easily been on par with or potentially surpassed The Lion King. 'Critics' like myself don't enjoy hating on stuff, I would much prefer gushing over a film that nailed it *cough* Princess and the Frog *cough*.

 

So tl;dr in the case of Frozen:

Olaf is by far 'Best Pony'.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

 I mean when you start saying Olaf is somehow a worse character than Jar Jar Binks, then you've pretty much gone off the deep end.

I may not be a fan of Frozen, but this is just too far. Unnecessary. Cruel, even. 

 

 

Anyway, never seen it. From what I piece together from the little bits and fragments of what I've heard about it, it supposedly features a killer soundtrack and princesses who aren't just waiting in a tower, waiting for their prince. I also am under the impression that the strength of the female protagonists is being overstated and Elsa cannot face her problems head on and pretty much locks herself in her room, so while she may not depend on man like many of her other Disney Princess counterparts, she is far from breaking the mold of a Disney Princess. I have a feeling I'd be mixed on this movie if I were to watch it.

 

That Jar Jar Binks thing is just too harsh, though. Ouch.

Edited December 13, 2014 by ghostfacekiller39

[EpitomeOfTruth 243]

 

 

Did you miss the line a few minutes into the film where the troll asks the king "born with the powers or cursed?" and the king replies "born".

 

 

That doesn't really justify it. How do two non-magical human beings give birth to a magical one?

[Cloud Strife 928]

Case in Point: the VA they chose for Elsa, was textbook miscasting. I am not saying she is a bad actress ( she has a great voice and all that), but that her voice doesn't fit the role of Elsa. Elsa is the type of character who is becoming a good person, not good person becoming villain as is the case in the VAs work in the musical Wicked ( in which case it is great casting). The opening song has a flippin line' ,"Beware the frozen heart", the story is about Elsa's 'frozen heart'... melting ( sorry about the unintentional puns). The VA sounds too... warm ( ach! can't escape ), and then the song "Let it Go" should have been story boarded better and done in a different key as it is not the "I'm finally free!" song it is the "I don't want to deal with people!" song. One of the lines is "the cold never bothered me anyway", cold has not yet been used in a positive sense, that line could be clarified to read "My cold never bothered me anyway".

 

Elsa was actually originally intended to be the antagonist of the movie. The problem is, they kept a lot of their ideas from when she was one and it leads to her character arc feeling like a huge chunk of it is missing something, just because they thought her being a villain was uninteresting (it isn't, though, which is the sad part about it). Now I know derivatives of books don't have to be exactly like their books to be good (take How to Train Your Dragon for example, which is almost nothing like the book) but I think the people making the movie based on it need to at least understand why the author made the choices that s/he did.

 

I also am under the impression that the strength of the female protagonists is being overstated and Elsa cannot face her problems head on and pretty much locks herself in her room, so while she may not depend on man like many of her other Disney Princess counterparts, she is far from breaking the mold of a Disney Princess. I have a feeling I'd be mixed on this movie if I were to watch it.

 

Elsa does almost nothing in the entire movie except cause problems. The only time she doesn't is toward the end, where she fixes it... But it was her own mistake she was fixing. It also winds down in a pretty unrealistic way; for years and years Elsa suffered from being unable to control her powers, but suddenly one action that takes Anna all of five seconds makes Elsa into an expert? Especially since I doubt Elsa was lacking of "love" in the beginning of the movie and even then she'd lost control of her powers. I don't know, it seems fishy and contrived.

 

Anna is the more developed of the two, but even her story has issues. Firstly, did Anna really just sit there in front of Elsa's door for all of those years? She makes it out as if she never went through the castle once because she was so busy focusing on her sister. I doubt anyone in their right mind would do such a thing.

[Virgil 685]

 

 

That Jar Jar Binks thing is just too harsh, though. Ouch.

I honestly think Olaf is probably the best character in the film, it's a rather long discussion but the short form is... Well, I would ask anyone that thinks Olaf is a poor character, "If Olaf doesn't know that by helping his friends bring back summer he will melt, then why is he not surprised when he starts melting when he helps save the heroine of the story?"

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

I honestly think Olaf is probably the best character in the film, it's a rather long discussion but the short form is... Well, I would ask anyone that thinks Olaf is a poor character, "If Olaf doesn't know that by helping his friends bring back summer he will melt, then why is he not surprised when he starts melting when he helps save the heroine of the story?"

Best or worst, I don't think anyone deserves to be compared to Jar Jar Binks ._.

[Virgil 685]

 

 

Elsa was actually originally intended to be the antagonist of the movie. The problem is, they kept a lot of their ideas from when she was one and it leads to her character arc feeling like a huge chunk of it is missing something, just because they thought her being a villain was uninteresting (it isn't, though, which is the sad part about it). Now I know derivatives of books don't have to be exactly like their books to be good (take How to Train Your Dragon for example, which is almost nothing like the book) but I think the people making the movie based on it need to at least understand why the author made the choices that s/he did.

Yeah, I remember hearing that myself and can't help but think they... overcompensated when making Elsa a sympathetic character.

[VitalSpark 1,830]

 

 

How do two non-magical human beings give birth to a magical one?

 

Because genetics.

 

There are a number of traits that work this way, including albinism and cystic fibrosis. Why not magic? If the king and queen were both carriers of the magic gene, each of their children would have a one in four chance of being magic.

[EpitomeOfTruth 243]

Because genetics.

 

There are a number of traits that work this way, including albinism and cystic fibrosis. Why not magic? If the king and queen were both carriers of the magic gene, each of their children would have a one in four chance of being magic.

 

If only it were that simple. I don't think you can just say magic is genetic without any sort a basis for such a claim. If it was, then the chance of Elsa being the only one in Arendale to have magic is unlikely, since someone in their family (or some other family) had to have the gene (and be affected) for it to be passed down. If that is the case, then the town should not fear Elsa's power.  Knowing Disney, they would give some kind of reason, but instead, it felt more like "This is Disney, they already know there's magic, we don't need an explanation."

[VitalSpark 1,830]

 

 

If only it were that simple. I don't think you can just say magic is genetic without any sort a basis for such a claim. If it was, then the chance of Elsa being the only one in Arendale to have magic is unlikely, since someone in their family (or some other family) had to have the gene (and be affected) for it to be passed down.

 

Not so, you can have many generations of carriers before somebody ends up exhibiting the trait. Remember for an excessive gene to affect you, you need to have inherited a recessive copy from both parents. If the gene in question it is not an especially common gene, then it would be a very rare case that two carriers happened to get together and have children, and even then there's a 3/4 chance that each child will not be affected.

 

There are plenty of recessive genetic orders that are rare, which you probably don't know anybody with, and which you may not even have heard of. For example, beta thalassemia. It affects about 1 in 100,000 people. If you have a trait which affects 1 in 100,000 people, how many people in a micro-kingdom like Arendelle (population of maybe a few thousand) are likely to be familiar with it?

[Cloud Strife 928]

@

While your theory for where her powers came from is fair, it still doesn't excuse the fact that the powers are hardly explained. It's also not explained how the trolls know about it. Have they come across it before? How come they can effectively cure it?

 

Before you say "it's magic, it doesn't need to be thoroughly explained", I know that, but it would be far less confusing and would've silenced many people if they just had a single line addressing it, e.g. "I remember when this happened to so-and-so," or, "We trained specifically so this would happen." There was the idea of a prophecy floating around too in the early stages of the movie's development, which would've actually served this purpose quite nicely and makes it even more perturbing thinking about why they tossed such an idea out.

[simply creative 696]

You know what song makes me upset in frozen.

It's the let it go song.

That song is just awful.