S05:E08 - The Lost Treasure of Griffonstone

[Thaliel 116]

I wasn't initially pleased to see Gilda return, but she really added to it. Though I still wonder if there is a griffon named srooge who has a vault of bits he regularly swims in

[reformed twixie 6]

whos next on the list to being reformed  sombra's dead and even if he were alive crazy maniac so ........ um chrysalis makes her third return ?

[Dark Qiviut 22,388]

1. Sorry DQ, I have to disagree. Why is Griffonstone a wasteland in the first place? It's because everyone is looking out for themselves, only concerned with their own survival. There are no relationships, not even producer-consumer ones.

 

2. Why is the economy a wreck? Because nobody is making products that anyone else wants. Nobody wants Gilda's food. Nobody wants to take a tour to the abyss. Nobody has money to pay for construction work to repair houses or improve the infrastructure.

 

3. There's no voluntary exchange of goods and services, because nobody is empathetic, no one considers the others' needs. Everyone loses because of this.

1. It's a complete wasteland because nothing thrives. When it doesn't thrive, the griffons have to battle for survival. Today's griffons are a byproduct of what was once a very destructive culture. Today's griffons saw absolutely no hope in their town; nobody can blame them whatsoever for their apathy.
2. The economy is a wreck because there's nothing there to help them. The corruption was so deep, it affected Griffonstone's today's population. But today's griffons aren't greedy collectively. They can't make any product anyone wants because the agriculture is completely terrible. The resources are beyond limited. They're virtually nonexistent. How can they make anything they want and make any money if they can't import, export, and grow their own crops?
3. They can't exchange because there's nothing for them to exchange. Again, how can they exchange if they can't? Each griffon has every reason to fend for themselves because none of them know if they're going to actually live the very next day. Today's griffons are punished for something caused by their ancestors, and that's wrong.

4. Friendship does solve the problem, because it established this. Gilda makes scones that others like. Suddenly, she has a product that others want. All of this came from a friend helping her with her recipe and to understand what a consumer wants.

 

So in this case, I must object: friendship is exactly what Griffonstone needed.

 

Pinkie and RD realized that Gilda need to bring friendship there. Friendship is the answer.

Correction, both of you. Friendship is an answer to them working together to try to come up with a solution. But friendship can only take so much. Even if they all team up, their infrastructure is in shambles, and their economy and agriculture are completely nonexistent. The griffons have every reason to feel apathetic for their future; they had none, and who can blame them?

 

If this was a situation between a few neighbors, then perhaps it can work. But it isn't a group of neighbors. An entire kingdom is affected. The corruption is so rooted, it'll take years, if not decades, to plausibly fix all the issues. Friendship won't fix their economy or agriculture. To claim it's the answer for something like a kingdom is dangerous, for it completely simplifies the problems and shortchanges the audience. You can't simplify a solution and blanket it as something that can happen for every single predicament, especially if it's a vast size like a kingdom and generational.

 

what about when that one griffon didn't help rainbow dash, who was in definite danger, because she had no money? Usually people who are super poor are very willing to help others out (I've had heaps of encounters with homeless people...)

1. Homelessness doesn't equate to being poor. Homelessness means you don't a place to live. The griffons do, albeit a collection of slums.
2. That was one griffon who was greedy, but you should also consider Griffonstone. Like I said, Griffonstone is a collection of slums. They're trying to live any way they can. If they have no bits, then how can they survive? Was he wrong? Yes. But his apathy is understandable. Unfortunately, the episode paints a broad brush over Griffonstone today.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[Jeric 46,851]

Friendship is an answer to them working together to try to come up with a solution.

 

Exactly. At the end of the episode, Griffinstone is not miraculously magicked back to glory, a crowd cheering our three heroes, a ruler installed, and riches aplenty. Instead you had one soul brought to remember what friendship was. She showed fear about applying it on her own, signifying the difficulty of tackling it alone. One act will become two ... and three .... and a trend becomes something formative and real. But it started with that one task, namely have Dash and Pinkie make up with Gilda. That map is a damn smart piece of furniture, no doubt about that. 

[Dark Qiviut 22,388]

Exactly. At the end of the episode, Griffinstone is not miraculously magicked back to glory, a crowd cheering our three heroes, a ruler installed, and riches aplenty. Instead you had one soul brought to remember what friendship was. She showed fear about applying it on her own, signifying the difficulty of tackling it alone. One act will become two ... and three .... and a trend becomes something formative and real. But it started with that one task, namely have Dash and Pinkie make up with Gilda. That map is a damn smart piece of furniture, no doubt about that. 

But the gigantic problem here is that the narrative treats friendship as the solution to all their problems. That once they all become friends, the problems will eventually go away.

 

No, it won't. The moral here has the same issue as One Bad Apple's solution to bullying: It's painted as the one solution to fix everything. Its corruption and overall issues are much more complex than that, and the episode bypasses them.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[NotoriousSMALL 1,984]

 

1. Homelessness doesn't equate to being poor. Homelessness means you don't a place to live. The griffons do, albeit a collection of slums.
2. That was one griffon who was greedy, but you should also consider Griffonstone. Like I said, Griffonstone is a collection of slums. They're trying to live any way they can. If they have no bits, then how can they survive? Was he wrong? Yes. But his apathy is understandable. Unfortunately, the episode paints a broad brush over Griffonstone today.

Yeah, I highly doubt any of the homeless people I came across had any money considering they were in tatters. I wasn't talking about the griffons being homeless, did you get what I was trying to convey? The homelessness was an example. Poor people are usually willing to lend a hand, well, any normal people usually are.

"apathy is understandable" yeah, if you're a sociopath. Would REALLY hurt to take at most 5 minutes out of your day to throw down a rope and hoist someone up from certain death? Would it honestly cost you so much *valuable money*?

[Singe 2,111]

Overall the scene of Gilda having a sudden change of heart, felt contrived. Pinkie Pie what the heck are you doing trying to kill everyone. Gilda could have pulled them up first and then got the idol as there was no sign of a time limit or only one chance. 

Edited May 24, 2015 by Singe

[Justin_Case001 4,882]

INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE!!!  WHOOOOOO!!!!

 

Ok, with that out of my system:

 

Great episode.  I absolutely loved it.

 

High points:

 

• Indiana Jones grail parody
• Dash's Twilight impression
• No singing rule
• Pinkie's baking powder commercial

 

I was grinning ear to ear when I realized they were doing a parody of Indiana Jones.  That was so well done.  Like many others, I was thrilled to see a Gilda comeback, some much needed Griffon screentime, world building, Dashie and Gilda backstory, etc.  Great stuff.  I liked Griffon Brush Off, but hated Gilda.  I thought she was a perfectly decent character, just a pure antagonist that you love to hate.  I was so pleased seeing her come around in this episode.  As others have said, it was great to see some reasons why she's so grumpy as well.  I really liked her by the end of the episode.  I hope we see her again.

 

All in all, good RD and Pinkie development.  Not gonna go into a big thing about that.  They make a great paring.

 

One thing I can pick at a little is that is seemed kind of...unfair that Twilight couldn't go.  Just because she wasn't "summoned" means she is forbidden to go?  The hell, man?  The map "knew" that Pinkie and RD had a history with Gilda, and thus, they would be the ones to reach her.  They were the keys to unlocking Griffonstone, but why does that mean Twilight couldn't accompany them and just tour the place?  I do like the idea that the map can summon just just some of the six.  That's kind of neat.  I just wish Twi could have gone along, but I understand the writers' decision not to do that.  With only 20 minutes per episode, there's just so little they can fit in.  Putting Twilight in there probably would have felt like shoehorning, and it would have taken too much time away from the stars of this episode.  Really, I think the writing and stories in this show are easily good enough to warrant twice as much time per episode-- Hour long (or 40 minutes of show) episodes.  But I know, I know: kids' attention spans, right?  Pfffft, I say.

 

One other thing is that the resolution felt a bit rushed, and it seemed very sad and abrubt that the ponies left so suddenly, when the whole place is still in ruin.  Again, this is an issue of cramming a lot in 20 minutes.  I felt like it would have been better with a little denouement taking place a week later or so, showing that Pinkie and RD stayed awhile to help get the rebuilding going.  They could show griffon teams in the background, sawing and hammering and beginning to rebuild and refurbish the place.  Then Gilda could say, "Thanks for all your help.  I think we go it from here.  Be sure to come back and visit."  Something like that would have been perfect imo.  Instead, the map was like, "Ok, Gilda offered that other Griffon a scone, you're done, get yer asses back here."

 

But I do really like how they dealt with a impoverished city in ruin.  This show continues to feel daring with the relevant issues it tackles (like Cutie Markless.  Yes, I call it Cutie Markless.  Just calling the episode The Cutie Map seems confusing, as you might just be referring to the map.)  Anyway, I love how FIM isn't afraid to show troubled places like Pleasantville and Griffonstone.

 

Also, incidentally, given the title, I was terrified going in that this episode was going to be all about...Daring Do.  I'm one of those that felt that making the DD universe real was a terrible choice, and ruined the imaginitive nature of it, and damaged Equestrian lore.  I know that it's coming back at some point.  I'm dreading the day.  But I was jumping for joy that it wasn't today.

 

I just loved this one.  Brilliant.

 

Also, I am the only one who thinks Gummy must have some kind of mental disability?  That guy is so weird.

 

Oh, and one last thing:

 

INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE!!!  WHOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jeric 46,851]

 

 

there was no sign of a time limit

 

The ledges were no longer stable. Rainbow almost fell off one earlier in the story.  

[Dark Qiviut 22,388]

 

 

"apathy is understandable" yeah, if you're a sociopath. Would REALLY hurt to take at most 5 minutes out of your day to throw down a rope and hoist someone up from certain death? Would it honestly cost you so much *valuable money*?

You're not considering the situation. The griffons think about money because they can't survive, perhaps through the day and tomorrow, without any source of income. Griffonstone is bankrupt. No income, they can't pay for food for themselves and possibly family members. No income, they can't pay to maintain their slums. No income, they starve and might eventually die. The griffon was wrong for not helping Dash, bits or not, but it's understandable why he asked.

[Singe 2,111]

The ledges were no longer stable. Rainbow almost fell off one earlier in the story.  

 

The one they were hanging on seemed more stable as it has been holding that skull for a long time.

 

Though Gilda took a lot of time to attempt a grab at the idol and then pull them up. When she could have taken the same amount of time to pull them up first and then get the idol.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Singe

[Jeric 46,851]

But the gigantic problem here is that the narrative treats friendship as the solution to all their problems.

 

If one act of kindness leads to more, which in turn starts a shift in national consciousness so a species can now cooperate, then absolutely it would be the solution. It all depends on the angle you look at it. One of my big personal views is how a single thread in your life ... one experience ... can have profound impact on the rest of your life. Pull that thread and remove it, and your life is completely different. The simple fact that I'm even here can be traced back to a high school lunch room conversation in 1994 in which I apologized to a person who would become my wife, or even an episode of Chipmunks that taught me animation still can be poignant. 

 

We can start huge changes in society as well, if we simple change a small thing within our power ... like not give up your seat in the front of the bus.

[Radiance64 7,053]

So I went into this episode completely spoiler-free, I didn't even know what it was called until I watched it on TV this morning!

Anyway, great episode, finally more of the map! And the griffon kingdom! And Gilda came back! Enjoyed just about everything about it, except it bothered me a little that Pinkie didn't know how to rope and just how quickly Gilda heal-turned, but eh, nitpicks in an otherwise solid, exciting episode.

9/10

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

Another bullet point. Death has been undeniably confirmed to exist in this universe.

 

 

Damn...You're absolutely right! O_O

Technically, Hearts and Hooves Day proved that in Season 2:

 

 

Casket, eulogy, funeral.

 

This episode was good for giving Gilda a reformation arc (about 1 seconds worth of arc, haha, but at least it's something), and for actually averting "Twilight saves the day": none of her advice really helped, since Pinkie spent a small fortune on sweets, but they still had enough bits; they never met any librarian, and in fact got their exposition from Gilda's Gramp. 

 

I had predicted that their scones would become their new source of pride and thereby improve things, but I guess friendship trumps everything.

 

I also see potential for an episode where Rarity and Rainbow Dash are sent somewhere. I'd like to see some more interaction between those two sans the rest of the Mane Six.

 

One more thing: Gilda treated Fluttershy terribly too, she should have been sent along and gotten an apology. They (the writers) decided not to do that, because apparently, fuck Fluttershy. 

[BisKit 93]

I kept wondering if Hasbro is featuring the TwiDash ship, or is it Dashie..

[Singe 2,111]

Pinkie Pie was all over the map in this episode. Pulling out all the stops.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Singe

[Silver Letter 1,832]

 

 

it became clear why it was just Dash and Pinkie that were called.

Because they were the primary ponies that had a conflict with Gilda before.

[Singe 2,111]

I've been reading this episode as griffins are inferior to ponies. Despite how glorified Twilight spoke about them, they were an unstable society held together by a lynch pin.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Singe

[GenderIsAnIllusion 2,177]

Very nice... More Gilda...... A giant one eyed goat skull at the bottom of an extremely dangerous gorge.... What more could I ask?

[Dark Qiviut 22,388]

@@Jeric, Major flaws in your argument.

1. Not everyone in Griffonstone will desire being a friend with Gilda or almost every other citizen there. Judging by how Griffonstone is painted, chances are at least one griffon will prefer to remain solitary. This lone citizen is just as important as the others who are cooperating.
2. Gilda is on the right track to rebuilding her own community. That's all she's showing: trying to repair her community. Even if her community becomes repaired, it doesn't mean the others will. Even if all of the communities are repaired, it doesn't automatically translate to success, which the episode assumes. Thousands of communities in the United States have the ability to repair themselves because they often have the resources.
   
   Griffonstone doesn't have the resources. Its issues are beyond just a community. It's a kingdom. Kingdoms are a conglomerate of multiple communities, and you can make an educated guess the community shown on screen is just one. By how the narrative treats the dire situation, Griffonstone altogether is in complete trouble. The kingdom is economically and agriculturally bankrupt. Consequentially, they affect their ability to survive. Without an economy, they can't trade, repair their houses, and export. Without agriculture, they can't trade, eat, and make money. All of their systematic problems are tied together. If you can't fix even one problem, you can't fix all of them.
3. Even if everyone teams up, Griffonstone isn't going to be fixed so quickly. The moral portrays the Magic of Friendship as the solution to it. The moral isn't simply wrong. It's a lie. Realistically, the Magic of Friendship won't fix Griffonstone's generational corruption that quickly. Their problems are so systematic, it'd take several years to fix every single issue if reviewing it plausibly. But that's also quite superfluous. At least, its corruption is centuries old. The current and maybe following generations may not even be alive to see Griffonstone's positive impact become evident, but Griffonstone doesn't have that much time; the majority of the population could either leave or die within the next few months. The Magic of Friendship may not even be enough to repair Griffonstone at all.

Friendship Is Magic's primary moral and theming are sometimes very optimistic to a very big fault. This is one such example.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[cuteycindyhoney 13,306]

I have a few observations on the episode. Several users have stated that Pinkie almost killed Rainbow and Gilda. I don't see it that way. When the ledge finally gave way and Rainbow fell, Pinkie used Pinkie logic and acted FAST! She had seen Gilda arrest her own fall by using her talons. She had faith that Gilda could do this again. So, Pinkie grabbed the anchor rope from the rock outcropping, threw it around her middle, and jumped. She had total trust in Gilda's ability to save her from certain death at the bottom of the crevasse.

Using her physics defying Pinkieness, she fell faster than Rainbow and managed to catch her. If she hadn't jumped, Gilda couldn't possibly have reached Rainbow in time to save her.

 

Another point. People have noted Gilda's change in voice. It did change, but in mid episode. In the beginning it matched pretty well with "Griffin The Brushoff". When Gilda lost her anger, her voice softened and became more feminine. 

 

Rainbow Dash's impression of Twilight (complete with mane style) was comic gold! As was Twilight's poorly suppressed jealousy that the map didn't select her to go on the mission too. That brings up another point. I think Twilight's guidebook was totally in character. I liked how she actually sewed the binding, instead of presenting it as a scroll. 

 

The flashback was wonderful. Filly Rainbow and fledgeling Gilda were simply adorable together. I like how Rainbow took it as her mission to protect anypony from being bullied by the trio of flight camp jerks.

[Allen 1,387]

Gilda was relieved she's treated with Rainbow Dash and Pinkie Pie in a good way, and she'll have a tea after the work is done. 

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

You're not considering the situation. The griffons think about money because they can't survive, perhaps through the day and tomorrow, without any source of income. Griffonstone is bankrupt. No income, they can't pay for food for themselves and possibly family members. No income, they can't pay to maintain their slums. No income, they starve and might eventually die. The griffon was wrong for not helping Dash, bits or not, but it's understandable why he asked.

Understandable to ask, sure, but after it became clear that Rainbow Dash had no more bits to give, the guide literally left her to die. That is not understandable, that shows a callous disregard for life. Why not help in exchange for the necessary bits later? 

 

@@Jeric, Major flaws in your argument.

1. Not everyone in Griffonstone will desire being a friend with Gilda or almost every other citizen there. Judging by how Griffonstone is painted, chances are at least one griffon will prefer to remain solitary. This lone citizen is just as important as the others who are cooperating.
2. Gilda is on the right track to rebuilding her own community. That's all she's showing: trying to repair her community. Even if her community becomes repaired, it doesn't mean the others will. Even if all of the communities are repaired, it doesn't automatically translate to success, which the episode assumes. Thousands of communities in the United States have the ability to repair themselves because they often have the resources.

    

   Griffonstone doesn't have the resources. Its issues are beyond just a community. It's a kingdom. Kingdoms are a conglomerate of multiple communities, and you can make an educated guess the community shown on screen is just one. By how the narrative treats the dire situation, Griffonstone altogether is in complete trouble. The kingdom is economically and agriculturally bankrupt. Consequentially, they affect their ability to survive. Without an economy, they can't trade, repair their houses, and export. Without agriculture, they can't trade, eat, and make money. All of their systematic problems are tied together. If you can't fix even one problem, you can't fix all of them.

3. Even if everyone teams up, Griffonstone isn't going to be fixed so quickly. The moral portrays the Magic of Friendship as the solution to it. The moral isn't simply wrong. It's a lie. Realistically, the Magic of Friendship won't fix Griffonstone's generational corruption that quickly. Their problems are so systematic, it'd take several years to fix every single issue if reviewing it plausibly. But that's also quite superfluous. At least, its corruption is centuries old. The current and maybe following generations may not even be alive to see Griffonstone's positive impact become evident, but Griffonstone doesn't have that much time; the majority of the population could either leave or die within the next few months. The Magic of Friendship may not even be enough to repair Griffonstone at all.

Friendship Is Magic's primary moral and theming are sometimes very optimistic to a very big fault. This is one such example.

I've always considered that kind of the point. The show should be optimistic. Hold on a moment:

Realism is great, but this is not the nitty-gritty kind of show. Heck, for many fans, that's the mane draw, that we can have uplifting and positive morals in contrast to a world that sadly is too often lacking in that sort of thing. Can it go too far? Sure. But better that than cynical realism.

 

In any case, I don't think either the writers or Pinkie imply that Griffonstone's problems will be solved overnight. Rainbow Dash even brings up similar concerns. But it's a start. Compare it to the season premier. The four ponies at the end became friends, but they acknowledge they still have to get to know each other and are looking forward to that. It's a hopeful beginning rather than a convenient ending. Or at least, that's how I interpreted the moral.

[HailTrixie 239]

Time to post my next review

 

Mkay, so I didn't have very high hopes for this episode. At all. Mainly because Gilda.

However, pretty much as soon as it started I knew it was going to be good. (Gummy <3)

 

Humour: 7.5/10

 

I was about to give this like a 3 when I remembered the episode had Pinkie Pie in it. Her jokes were great but I feel like without her this episode would have just been jokeless (save the TwiDash scene). I also feel like, and I could be totally wrong, but an episode where all the comedy relies on one character is kind of either lazy writing or it just gets old. Either way, Pinkie's jokes were awesome. That commercial...

 

Plot/Writing: 8/10

 

The plot seemed fairly solid, and it established a whole new location and backstory to Equestria and the MLP universe. Gilda's character development was great, and instead of being all grumpy and rude all the way up until like the last five minutes and then being reformed all of a sudden, she gradually got 'better', like a character should. The griffin's personalities were displayed pretty much perfectly, too. The only problem I had with it, that made it lose the two points, was that when I got to the 15 minute mark I realised that the episode wasn't even starting to get wrapped up, and I wondered how the hell they were going to manage that with 5 minutes left. They did manage it, but I just feel like the pacing could have been a little better.

 

Visuals: 8/10

 

The visuals in this episode were great. I'm just going to list all the things I liked because I have very little time left to write this and I'm getting lazy anyway.

• Rainbow Dash with Twilight's mane. It works suprisingly well and I want to see it return in a later episode, even though it will never happen.
• The character design of the crazy old griffin guy. He looked cool.
• The whole animation sequence when they were telling Griffinstone's backstory. This was the bulk of the visuals points.
• The rivene. They did the wind really well and the whole 'scenery' worked perfectly to add to the distress and nature of the situation Dash was in. Also, decapitated corpse.
• Pinkie Pie's commercial and the filter it had. I like it when the show does that - it's not the first time.
• I'm probably missing something.

Overall: 7.75/10

 

I enjoyed the episode quite a bit. I hate Gilda a little less now

[JH24 385]

That was a great episode. I definitely enjoyed it. Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash have some good chemistry together.

 

Many funny moments (Loved for example "salty" Twilight and "Twilight" Dash), good and interesting interactions, good pacing with a variety of scenes, detailed worldbuilding and with character development.

 

I like how this show pokes fun at itself. With Pinkie not being allowed to sing, Rainbow telling Pinkie's comments were sappy, Pinkie's "baking powder" and "duly noted" comment, etc. 

Edited May 24, 2015 by JH24