S05:E17 - Brotherhooves Social

[arftbmrf 40]

Why not?

What does it even mean anyway?

 

It's like describing a behaviour as 'masculine' or 'feminine'. Are those behaviours inherent/exclusive to a gender or simply more common in one than another (as a population-wide generalisation)?

 

The terminology might be an issue, but I don't take issue with someone with a clearly defined geneder identity (wherever that may be on the gender spectrum) being regarded as 'manly' or 'lady-like' with respects to how they behave in a given area.

 

RD's reaction to Tank's hiberation (once Flutters is done with her) is hardly 'manly' for example.

It means that ladies (women/mares) should always be well-manered, afraid of real work, getting dirty, any physical activity, should alway play the role of damsel in distress, stay in the kitchen, be interested in fashion, lipsticks and other stuff like that.

And manly means quite opposide.

As in traditional gender roles. I thought that MLP teaches us that there are no gender roles in Equestria.

 

It was suggested that being like a "lady" is a requirement of the Sisterhooves Social, which stretches it beyond just being a personality archetype. There was nothing to suggest that Rainbow Dash was exempt from the requirement.

Well, seems like gender doesn't matter in Sisterhooves Social. And besides, Big Mac is a lady there, no matter his gender.

Edited October 4, 2015 by arftbmrf

[Truffles 2,033]

 

 

They instead play coy, letting Big Mac make a complete fool of himself, compete in the competitive events, and put everypony in danger even knowing he shouldn't be there without so much as airing a doubt beyond dismissive sarcasm. To be honest, what was the point of letting him go if the lesson wasn't going to be learned there in the first place? The lesson wasn't learned at the social. It came after the social, hence there was no purpose in letting him continue anyway.

 

I think the disguise and his ramming his way through the events aren't connected, or at least from reading the above, that what it seems like you're trying to connect.

 

Even if he had been himself, he still would have thrown the hay bale at the two pink ponies, smashed the chicken coop, and tossed Scoots and RD aside to get across the finish first. The point the episode made is he did belong there, whether he was a mare or a stallion. He simply didn't understand the spirit of the contest - spending quality time with your sister.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Oh God damn.   This show continues to tug at places I never expected it to. I'm the eldest of three brothers and Big Mac's speech at the end . . . yeah it made the tears and they weren't manly. Now I miss both of my younger brothers.

 

On top of that, this whole episode was comedy gold. Big Mac got to show off just how intelligent, articulate, and adaptable that mind of his is but they took every comedic advantage this situation afforded.

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,824]

First off...crossdressing...crossdressing...and Big Macs alternate voice...my friend would flip if he saw this...

 

But boy...who knew...who knew that Big Mac was suffering on the inside? Who knew that all these episodes and all of these seasons, ever since AJ earned her Element of Honesty, he has been going through so much...thinking lower of himself, than the loving big brother he was. Wow...and now we've heard him speak the truth. By far, this is now the episode where Big Mac has spoken the most. 

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

This episode might as well have been titled "Some Like It Trot"! Especially with the old organizer pony. I actually felt really sad for him. Who knows? Maybe he knew "Orchard Blossom" was a stallion and just didn't care!

 

I like episodes where Big Mac gets to actually talk, and hearing how he feels in AJ's shadow, and AB's words of support were warm fuzzies all day long!

 

Personally, I think this whole issue of gender equality in Equestria was just reinforced. They let him compete, and the ending even reveals that him just being a stallion was not the reason for the disqualification, it was his "win at any cost" mentality and the reckless use of his strength. I don't see any real issue here. Just my opinion.

 

Big Mac's dream comes true!

[arftbmrf 40]

This episode might as well have been titled "Some Like It Trot"! Especially with the old organizer pony. I actually felt really sad for him. Who knows? Maybe he knew "Orchard Blossom" was a stallion and just didn't care!

 

I like episodes where Big Mac gets to actually talk, and hearing how he feels in AJ's shadow, and AB's words of support were warm fuzzies all day long!

 

Personally, I think this whole issue of gender equality in Equestria was just reinforced. They let him compete, and the ending even reveals that him just being a stallion was not the reason for the disqualification, it was his "win at any cost" mentality and the reckless use of his strength. I don't see any real issue here. Just my opinion.

 

I respect your opinion, but I'd like to ask, what about portraying mares weaker than stallions in that episode? Nobody still answered that.

[DJW 142]

It means that ladies (women/mares) should always be well-manered, afraid of real work, getting dirty, any physical activity, should alway play the role of damsel in distress, stay in the kitchen, be interested in fashion, lipsticks and other stuff like that.

And manly means quite opposide.

As in traditional gender roles. I thought that MLP teaches us that there are no gender roles in Equestria.

I think we may be coming at things from different directions.

 

When I talk about 'masculinity' and 'femininity' I see both as positive traits, rather than male = strong/dominant, female = weak/subserviant.

 

Again, the terminology is a hinderance, but that is in part down to our assumptions about what those terms mean. I'd point to Clerks 2 where Randal is unaware of the racial implications of the term 'porch monkey'. When confronted with the wider social assumption others make regarding the term, rather than ceasing to use it, he decides to 'reclaim' it for a positive use (though whether it's positive or not is somewhat debateable).

 

A male can exhibit 'feminine' traits and a female can exhibit 'masculine' traits (as can anyone wherever they are on the spectrum).

Edited October 4, 2015 by DJW

[Spartan 433]

This is the first season 5 episode, and maybe only episode, i didnt like. Wasn't too funny, but i did like how it touched on a relationship that has never been fully seen.

 

Though, the Big Mac wearing a dress was weird as hell, though i do get it.. live in a house with a bunch of women, weird things happen. I dont know, i was hoping it would be a true BROTHERhooves social. Would have been awesome to see Shining Armor, Fluttershy's brother, and if Rainbow Dash has a brother.. Oh and Thunderland

[arftbmrf 40]

I think we may be coming at things from different directions.

 

When I talk about 'masculinity' and 'femininity' I see both as positive traits, rather than male = strong/dominant, female = weak/subserviant.

 

Again, the terminology is a hinderance, but that is in part down to our assumptions about what those terms mean. I'd point to Clerks 2 where Randal is unaware of the racial implications of the term 'porch monkey'. When confronted with the wider social assumption others make regarding the term, rather than ceasing to use it, he decides to 'reclaim' it for a positive use (though whether it's positive or not is somewhat debateable).

 

A male can exhibit 'feminine' traits and a female can exhibit 'masculine' traits (as can anyone wherever they are on the spectrum).

There shouldn't be 'feminine' and 'masculine' traits, to beging with. In a gender-equal society, that is. So far, we've seen that mares could be tough and stallions could be not tough, but still, the question remains open. Traits should be personal, not 'feminine' and 'masculine'. Like I said, in the society with true gender equality, gender matters ONLY in case of giving birth. No other cases, mentions, traits, phrases, whatever.

[DJW 142]

There shouldn't be 'feminine' and 'masculine' traits, to beging with. In a gender-equal society, that is. So far, we've seen that mares could be tough and stallions could be not tough, but still, the question remains open. Traits should be personal, not 'feminine' and 'masculine'. Like I said, in the society with true gender equality, gender matters ONLY in case of giving birth. No other cases, mentions, traits, phrases, whatever.

I agree completely.

 

The question though, is that do we want to force/demand that we remove these labels now (which is only going to piss people off) or accept that getting to where we want to be is going to be a long-term multi-stage process?

 

If we start by promoting both as positive aspects in people of any gender identity, then we relax people's aversion to them. Then we can work on dropping the gender association.

 

Edit:

Also, male birth! Why not?

Edited October 4, 2015 by DJW

[ShadowPhoenix 153]

Rainbow Dash and Scootaloo can't run the Sisterhooves Social like Rarity and Sweetie Belle.

[arftbmrf 40]

I agree completely.

 

The question though, is that do we want to force/demand that we remove these labels now (which is only going to piss people off) or accept that getting to where we want to be is going to be a long-term multi-stage process?

 

If we start by promoting both as positive aspects in people of any gender identity, then we relax people's aversion to them. Then we can work on dropping the gender association.

 

Edit:

Also, male birth! Why not?

I was talking about Equestria, since they seemed to already achieved gender equality, but there are still few flaws here and there.

In case with real-life societies it's far from equality.

[Buck Testa 5,505]

 

 

This is dedicated to the old pony who wanted some of that Bic Mac goodness 

 

And for everyone calling foul like this is somehow obscurely making fun of Transgender people; Big Mac is CROSS DRESSING, which is entirely different than being transgender. Anyone could cross dress if they want to, for whatever reason they want, but Transgender means they identify as the opposite gender, which is something most people wont ever have to feel like. 

 

Onto the episode itself, I loved it, it was cute, it was funny, I love that big mac is a talkative lady and a stallion of few words, and frankly I'd love to see more of this side of him! 

 

I also totally get where Big Mac was coming from, nothing stabs right through the heart like not feeling important to your younger sibling when they looked up to you when they were little 

 

Mac sure seemed to be a natural at talking like that though, wonder if he's done that before 

[DJW 142]

Well I suppose we are getting a little away from the subject at hand (hoof?).

 

As I mentioned before, I didn't like the 'lady-like' comment, though personally I didn't really have too much of an issue with the episode as a whole.

 

I might be able to write more, but frankly, it's 3 in the morning, I am up to my eyeballs in ale and I am surprised I have remained coherent(?) this long.

[arftbmrf 40]

Just with each episode they are taking away things that made MLP... well, MLP. Slowly, but steadily. Maybe something will change, maybe not. The time will show.

[Blaze Bronson 343]

 

In a gender equal society there are no words, like male or female, until it comes to giving a birth. They'd always use 'pony' while referring to anyone, if we're talking about MLP.

It would be really hard to date people if telling ones gender was taboo.

 

There shouldn't be 'feminine' and 'masculine' traits, to beging with. In a gender-equal society, that is. So far, we've seen that mares could be tough and stallions could be not tough, but still, the question remains open. Traits should be personal, not 'feminine' and 'masculine'. Like I said, in the society with true gender equality, gender matters ONLY in case of giving birth. No other cases, mentions, traits, phrases, whatever.

If the only place we differentiate genders would be when women give birth, that would be even more terrible than how it is today.

That means that women should always be seen as equals to men, and would never be able to achieve the same things.

Imagine football with mixed gender teams. Women would never be picked because they are weaker, and would never be able to play.

 

--------------------

 

I don't get why so many people want total equality, when it is a fact that men and women are different both physically and psychologically.

Same thing with handicapped, kids, other races, drags, and all forms of life for that matter.

They shouldn't be treated equally, but rather treated as they need.

 

Edit: Sorry for rant. This thread is for the episode!

 

There was a lot to love with the episode, I mean Big Mac cross dressing? And that emotional ending? Great stuff.

Also surprised how they managed the perfect fit with last episode and how this happens simultaneous, with Applejack not being able to join them.

I got a little bored by Big Mac's act after a while, so I'd wish there were more varied jokes in the actual competition.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Blaze Bronson

[Lucky Star 972]

Big Mac looks sooooo beautiful!!!

 

Drag princess Mac is best Big Mac

 

--------------------------

Also, is anybrony else still in shock from hearing ole Mac talk so much in one episode?

I half expected it to really be a visiting cousin, just one that looked a lot like Big Mac.

but I'm glad it wasn't. that ending was just too good.

 

I've never really thought about how he must feel being left on the farm while his sister goes off on such wonderful adventures.

 

I hope we get to see and hear more of this kinda thing from Big mace in the future.

also a side note. I noticed this is the episode.

 

Possible sister for Bon Bon, or just some random filly?

the way I see it, sompony just got a little sis.

 

what do you peeps think?

 

A very solid episode I think, a whole ten out of ten~!

The feels, like all of them.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Lucky Star

[Zerbu 72]

Just with each episode they are taking away things that made MLP... well, MLP. Slowly, but steadily. Maybe something will change, maybe not. The time will show.

 

Are you referring to the gender equality issue or something else? Also, what else do you think the show is losing?

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

This episode was enjoyable, but not one of my favorites featuring the CMC, that being said I adored Big Mac in this episode and seeing him go to such great lengths to be around Applebloom and have her admire him was sweet and enjoyable. I also loved seeing Rainbow Dash and Scootaloo at the social and seeing them interact as sisters do. Also loved the elder pony that was trying to flirt with Big Mac when he was dressed as a mare. An enjoyable episode and a great Big Mac episode, but not my favorite featuring the CMC, all in all 9/10!!

 

also in response to this picture what is this building?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr Unknown 132]

Overall, the episode was great. The humor was spot on for the most part (I especially loved Sweetie Bell's "that's Big Mac in a dress" comment), but what really made me enjoy it was that ENDING scene. Boy, did THAT pile on the feels. ;_;

[dekutree64 713]

I don't like a whole lot in this episode but I do like Rainbow and Scoots. I guess their relationship has gotten even stronger lately since they see themselves as spiritual sisters of sorts? When did that happen?

Haven't you seen Sleepless in Ponyville? It's the bestest episode of the entire series.

 

As for this episode, I thought it was pretty good. Rainbow and Scootaloo's scenes were definitely my favorite part. I really wish we could have heard them sing. After Scootaloo's performance in The Show Stoppers, it could have been anywhere from hilarious to totally awesome, and in any case would have been far more enjoyable than Apple Bloom and Big Mac's cringe fest. Though Big Mac's Adam's apple showing at the end was pretty funny. Also this:

also in response to this picture what is this building?

 

large-2.png

That's Golden Harvest's house. She has a carrot farm next door to Sweet Apple Acres.

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

Haven't you seen Sleepless in Ponyville? It's the bestest episode of the entire series.

 

As for this episode, I thought it was pretty good. Rainbow and Scootaloo's scenes were definitely my favorite part. I really wish we could have heard them sing. After Scootaloo's performance in The Show Stoppers, it could have been anywhere from hilarious to totally awesome, and in any case would have been far more enjoyable than Apple Bloom and Big Mac's cringe fest. Though Big Mac's Adam's apple showing at the end was pretty funny. Also this:

That's Golden Harvest's house. She has a carrot farm next door to Sweet Apple Acres.

Ah ok I was wondering after seeing the episode.

[NavelColt 22,880]

Hoped for Thunderlane/Rumble comeback at some point in the background, got epic Big Mac character development, and GODDAMN CONTINUATION OF SCOOTALOVE, which took two seasons to happen but was very adorable, plus they won in the end. <3

 

Good ep. Season of Stallions continues.

[cider float 2,538]

The episode was eh. The main feature was Big Mac bringing out his transgender self again. He must feel the most confident as a mare than a stallion since he talks the most when he's all dressed up.

 

This episode was very LGBT themed. The judges knew Big Mac was a stallion yet they let him participate as a sister the term "sister" being used as a sexless term. That if he can act like a lady he can be considered a sister.

Edited October 4, 2015 by cider float

[arftbmrf 40]

It would be really hard to date people if telling ones gender was taboo.

 

If the only place we differentiate genders would be when women give birth, that would be even more terrible than how it is today.

That means that women should always be seen as equals to men, and would never be able to achieve the same things.

Imagine football with mixed gender teams. Women would never be picked because they are weaker, and would never be able to play.

 

--------------------

 

I don't get why so many people want total equality, when it is a fact that men and women are different both physically and psychologically.

Same thing with handicapped, kids, other races, drags, and all forms of life for that matter.

They shouldn't be treated equally, but rather treated as they need.

 

Edit: Sorry for rant. This thread is for the episode!

 

There was a lot to love with the episode, I mean Big Mac cross dressing? And that emotional ending? Great stuff.

Also surprised how they managed the perfect fit with last episode and how this happens simultaneous, with Applejack not being able to join them.

I got a little bored by Big Mac's act after a while, so I'd wish there were more varied jokes in the actual competition.

I'm talking about Equestria, again.

And what is best for equality is up to scientists to decide. I believe science more than any traditions.

Forgot to mention about mixed teams:

 

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/8/8d/The_first_leg_of_the_aerial_relay_S4E24.png/revision/latest?cb=20140505223832

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/c/cd/Pizzelle_and_Royal_Pin_taking_positions_S4E24.png/revision/latest?cb=20140505234040

Are you referring to the gender equality issue or something else? Also, what else do you think the show is losing?

Not just that... but I don't think we should discuss it here, because it's irrelevant. Maybe create another topic?

Edited October 4, 2015 by arftbmrf