Why is Shining Armor almost never referred to by title?

[ggg-2 3,551]

As we all know, Shining Armor is now a prince, by way of his marriage to Cadance. But while Cadence is almost always referred to by title, Shining Armor has only ever been referred to by title twice, to my knowledge. Why?

[green 331]

As we all know, Shining Armor is now a prince, by way of his marriage to Cadance. But while Cadence is almost always referred to by title, Shining Armor has only ever been referred to by title twice, to my knowledge. Why?

Maybe for the same reason as Twilight?

[Megas 27,219]

Because Princess Cadance pretty much is her name. I'm also pretty certain the writers just came up with Mi Amore Cadanza just to be fancy

 

On top of that, "Captain Shining Armor" or "Prince Armor" or "Prince Shining Armor" doesn't roll off the tongue as well. Besides we have his sister as the main character, and when she calls her brother by his normal name, it makes him sound more normal, if that makes sense

 

Though personally I wish they'd call him "Shiny" more

[Daring_Do 552]

He's just a lowly prince consort, not true royalty.

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

I would venture to make two guesses here. My first, more logical one is probably the reason why we still call the Duchess of Cambridge "Kate Middleton", because we're so used to the original name that even after it's legally changed, we still can't get rid of it.

 

Second is probably because Shining Armor's role is secondary to Princess Cadance and probably not as vital to the day-to-day operations of the Crystal Empire (we don't know for sure if he's still also in the Royal Guard). In Equestria, the gender roles seem to be flipped in a way that "Princess" carries an inherent amount more power and weight than "Prince". Evidence for this comes from how no princes depicted in the show are alicorns, none are present at meetings between the Princesses, and princesses are carefully chosen while princes either marry into their families or are simply born into it (hence why jerks like Blueblood can have that title). The truth is that "Princess" means nothing of the same thing in Equestria as it does here, and by that logic, neither should "Prince".

Edited October 24, 2015 by Wind Chaser

[Vixor 80]

I would venture to make two guesses here. My first, more logical one is probably the reason why we still call the Duchess of Cambridge "Kate Middleton", because we're so used to the original name that even after it's legally changed, we still can't get rid of it.

 

Second is probably because Shining Armor's role is secondary to Princess Cadance and probably not as vital to the day-to-day operations of the Crystal Empire (we don't know for sure if he's still also in the Royal Guard). In Equestria, the gender roles seem to be flipped in a way that "Princess" carries an inherent amount more power and weight than "Prince". Evidence for this comes from how no princes depicted in the show are alicorns, none are present at meetings between the Princesses, and princesses are carefully chosen while princes either marry into their families or are simply born into it (hence why jerks like Blueblood can have that title). The truth is that "Princess" means nothing of the same thing in Equestria as it does here, and by that logic, neither should "Prince".

 

Yawn, more people making tired old comparisons between the situation of Shining/Blueblood and the others. Alicornhood and gender have no connection. The alicorns ascend through merit and capability of being a benevolent ruler, and has nothing whatsoever to do with genitals. Shining and Blueblood aren't alicorns because Shining married into the title (prince consort), and Blueblood inherited his title (presumably). Alicornhood is just not inherited, and they most definitely would not reject or rule out someone because of their genitals, as that would be completely ridiculous and unjustified. And we do know of non-alicorn princesses too, mind you. Also, Starswirl almost became an alicorn, the only reason he didn't is because he didn't understand friendship, which Celestia explained.

 

Anyway, it's not that princesses and princes are different, it's that alicorn princesses and alicorn princes are not the same as normal princesses and princes, to some extent or another. What exactly the difference in responsibility between an alicorn and non-alicorn ruler is unknown, though. We know Shining helps govern, if you want to consider the comics a valid source. That should be obvious either way though.

 

Equestria is a gender egalitarian society, not a matriarchy or patriarchy. The show has consistently portrayed Equestria as being quite egalitarian with gender, and there's been nothing to suggest one gender is dominant or advantaged. And when it comes to alicorns, they gain it through merit/capability and being the right kind of individual for the position, something like that, and gender has nothing to do with it. Shining could very well become one someday, and I'm sure he's a capable leader, but what exactly he'd have to do or however that works, I'm unsure. I'm tired either way, and wording this is hard, especially when we know only pretty limited information about alicorns, for the most part.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Vixor

[M'gann M'orzz 745]

Which character who has said his name would refer to him like that? Cause the mane 6 wouldn't and nether would Cadance.

[Stardust* 3,302]

Because Princess Cadance pretty much is her name. I'm also pretty certain the writers just came up with Mi Amore Cadanza just to be fancy

 

On top of that, "Captain Shining Armor" or "Prince Armor" or "Prince Shining Armor" doesn't roll off the tongue as well. Besides we have his sister as the main character, and when she calls her brother by his normal name, it makes him sound more normal, if that makes sense

 

Though personally I wish they'd call him "Shiny" more

 

and the literal translation of Mi Amore Cadenza is "I love Cadence" lol so she is technically Princess I love Cadence! haha. I guess hence the heart shaped cutie make and her ability to spread love. 

 

But I agree with you, Prince Shining Armor is just a bit too formal. He is probably like Twilight where she doesn't care for formalities especially when it comes to her being called Princess. 

[ggg-2 3,551]

Which character who has said his name would refer to him like that? Cause the mane 6 wouldn't and nether would Cadance.

Twilight called him "Prince Shining Armor" when addressing the Crystal Ponies and announcing the Crystal Fair when the Empire first returned. And Mrs. Peachbottom (the one they mistook for Mrs. Harshwhinny) referred to him as "the prince"

[Kivil 1,721]

Let's say you grew up in a family that taught you to be modest with everyone. As soon as you got a crown does all of you modesty slip away? No and with Shining Armor and Twilight it didn't. At least that is my reasoning.

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

Yawn, more people making tired old comparisons between the situation of Shining/Blueblood and the others. Alicornhood and gender have no connection. The alicorns ascend through merit and capability of being a benevolent ruler, and has nothing whatsoever to do with genitals. Shining and Blueblood aren't alicorns because Shining married into the title (prince consort), and Blueblood inherited his title (presumably). Alicornhood is just not inherited, and they most definitely would not reject or rule out someone because of their genitals, as that would be completely ridiculous and unjustified. And we do know of non-alicorn princesses too, mind you. Also, Starswirl almost became an alicorn, the only reason he didn't is because he didn't understand friendship, which Celestia explained.

 

Anyway, it's not that princesses and princes are different, it's that alicorn princesses and alicorn princes are not the same as normal princesses and princes, to some extent or another. What exactly the difference in responsibility between an alicorn and non-alicorn ruler is unknown, though. We know Shining helps govern, if you want to consider the comics a valid source. That should be obvious either way though.

 

Equestria is a gender egalitarian society, not a matriarchy or patriarchy. The show has consistently portrayed Equestria as being quite egalitarian with gender, and there's been nothing to suggest one gender is dominant or advantaged. And when it comes to alicorns, they gain it through merit/capability and being the right kind of individual for the position, something like that, and gender has nothing to do with it. Shining could very well become one someday, and I'm sure he's a capable leader, but what exactly he'd have to do or however that works, I'm unsure. I'm tired either way, and wording this is hard, especially when we know only pretty limited information about alicorns, for the most part.

You speak about alicorn princes as if they're something that already exists in the show. The fact is they don't. Whether or not there's a possibility has no bearing on that fact. That's a debate for a different topic, and even then all we can come up with is speculation. The possibility of Starswirl becoming an alicorn is just that - a fan theory. Nothing in the show has stated this possibility as fact.

 

Princehood and alicornhood are not the same thing, but the show has mostly implied that princesshood and alicornhood are (in "Magical Mystery Cure" and "The Cutie Map", the first thoughts Rarity and Starlight Glimmer respectively had about seeing Twilight's wings was to presume she was a princess). If you have an example of an exception to this rule, please provide it because I can't just take your word for it. I haven't seen an alicorn in this show that wasn't a princess, neither have I seen vice-versa.

 

I invoked the idea of gender roles to illustrate how sometimes princess is seen as secondary to prince in the real world, whereas it's the opposite in Equestria, and there's really no harm in that in and of itself. The truth is that MLP is doing its best to challenge preconceptions about princess roles in media. There's no doubt "princess" carries a lot more weight than "prince", or else we'd see the four princesses addressing the princes as equals, which obviously does not happen (look at "Twilight's Kingdom" and "Princess Spike" for reference).

 

All of your arguments seem to be based on wishful thinking, non-canon material, and fan theories. I'm calling the show as I see it. Being a show aimed at girls first and foremost, it does have to give precedence to showing the achievements of female characters in order to play to that demographic and the original intent of the show. It doesn't have to ever show a male alicorn for all that matters. I'm not calling it out for being unfair to male characters or its male demographic in this particular case. I'm just pointing out facts here.

 

If anyone here hungers for a powerful, strong male character on the same level as the princesses of this show, there's no shortage of other works with such characters out there. Or better yet, anyone who takes the right amount of writing tips from this show can create that kind of character for themselves.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Wind Chaser

[Vixor 80]

You speak about alicorn princes as if they're something that already exists in the show. The fact is they don't. Whether or not there's a possibility has no bearing on that fact. That's a debate for a different topic, and even then all we can come up with is speculation. The possibility of Starswirl becoming an alicorn is just that - a fan theory. Nothing in the show has stated this possibility as fact.

 

Princehood and alicornhood are not the same thing, but the show has mostly implied that princesshood and alicornhood are (in "Magical Mystery Cure" and "The Cutie Map", the first thoughts Rarity and Starlight Glimmer respectively had about seeing Twilight's wings was to presume she was a princess). If you have an example of an exception to this rule, please provide it because I can't just take your word for it. I haven't seen an alicorn in this show that wasn't a princess, neither have I seen vice-versa.

 

I invoked the idea of gender roles to illustrate how sometimes princess is seen as secondary to prince in the real world, whereas it's the opposite in Equestria, and there's really no harm in that in and of itself. The truth is that MLP is doing its best to challenge preconceptions about princess roles in media. There's no doubt "princess" carries a lot more weight than "prince", or else we'd see the four princesses addressing the princes as equals, which obviously does not happen (look at "Twilight's Kingdom" and "Princess Spike" for reference).

 

All of your arguments seem to be based on wishful thinking, non-canon material, and fan theories. I'm calling the show as I see it. Being a show aimed at girls first and foremost, it does have to give precedence to showing the achievements of female characters in order to play to that demographic and the original intent of the show. It doesn't have to ever show a male alicorn for all that matters. I'm not calling it out for being unfair to male characters or its male demographic in this particular case. I'm just pointing out facts here.

 

If anyone here hungers for a powerful, strong male character on the same level as the princesses of this show, there's no shortage of other works with such characters out there. Or better yet, anyone who takes the right amount of writing tips from this show can create that kind of character for themselves.

 

I made no mention of one existing in the show as of present, nor do I necessarily expect to see one in the show itself unless DHX gets the opportunity to invest a lot of screentime into someone like Shining. I just said there's no reason whatsoever to believe that one couldn't ascend or that there's any discrimination against a stallion becoming one. To argue against that would be to argue that they'd reject a candidate because of their gender, which would be totally unreasonable and unjustifiable. I don't think there are any other alicorns currently around other than the four we've seen. Though, to be fair, Cadance was an unexpected surprise back when people thought Celestia and Luna were the only two.

 

And of course Rarity and Twilight would think she was a princess. Twilight is female, and all of the alicorns we've seen have been royalty. What else would you expect them to assume? You're not really making a point there, because if they saw a stallion that's an alicorn, they'd assume a prince. It's just the logical conclusion based on the ponies gender and the apparent role of alicorns, not some sort of implication.

 

And really, the bottom line for alicorns and non-alicorns is that alicorns princesses or princes probably have some level of greater authority or something than non-alicorn princesses or princes. If there's a hierarchy, it's alicorn rulers > non alicorn rulers, not princesses > princes or anything silly like that. If Shining Armor were an alicorn, I can guarantee you he would have equal authority/responsibility as the other alicorns. What specifically the difference between alicorns and non-alicorns is though, I'm not sure.

 

I think my points flew over your head completely. You're talking like you think I'm trying to claim that there is an alicorn prince alive RIGHT NOW, when in reality I don't think there are any others around than the four we currently have. The only thing I'm really saying is that either gender can ascend and there's nothing to suggest one would be brushed off or rejected for alicornhood based on something irrelevant like what genitals you have. Whether we'll actually get an alicorn prince in the show, I don't know. What I do know is that there's no reason to believe that gender is relevant to who can become one.

 

As for the show? You're right that one of it's focuses is great female characters, and they often get more screentime, but you know what? It's never portrayed one gender as being dominant or superior or anything of that sort, and there's no reason whatsoever to think otherwise. The show is fine as-is though, not saying they need to change it, but the whole "only princesses can be alicorns" nonsense is a load of rubbish that simply doesn't fly in-universe, regardless of whether or not we actually ever see an alicorn prince within the course of the show itself. The show may give female characters more screentime, and we see more into their lives, but Equestria is quite clearly a gender-egalitarian society, and there's nothing to indicate one gender is discriminated against or advantaged.

 

The thing that makes a difference between a ruler being an alicorn or not is their merit for the role and things like that, their gender does not play a part. It's been made entirely clear that alicornhood is earned, not inherited. Anyone who believes the nonsensical argument that someone would be rejected or ruled out because of their gender, is just being completely unreasonable. There is no sexism in the show. It does a great job at portraying interesting female characters, and the focus in screentime is usually on them, but this notion that Equestria is being portrayed as some sort of matriarchy is clearly false. A cartoon like this can have a positive portrayal of one gender without portraying a fictional society where the other gender are at a disadvantage or something else that would indeed be very harmful, problematic and out of place for the benevolent society of Equestria. The princesses are excellent characters, but that is NOT coming at the expense of male characters, whether in-universe or from our own perspective as viewers of the show. Again, female characters tend to have more screentime/focus in this show, but they aren't being portrayed as superior or dominant or anything ridiculous like that.

 

I typed this up quicker than usual, so sorry if there are any typos or anything. Just got home from Walmart, don't feel like doing any super intensive and stressful reviewing or worrying too much about the precise wording like I often do.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Vixor

[cmarston1 5,954]

Because his character isn't as important as Princess Cadence, Princess Luna or Twilight to actually be referred to be title.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,561]

My theory is this: Cadence has been a princess faaaaar longer than Shining has been a prince, so by this point it is probably just the norm to call Cadence 'Princess Cadence' whereas with Shining, he has not been a prince for very long so all the ponies are probably like 'Meh, you are known as Shining Armor to me so that's what I call ya.' Twilight especially but that is understandable. 

[-Octavia- 1,176]

and the literal translation of Mi Amore Cadenza is "I love Cadence" lol so she is technically Princess I love Cadence!

Sicilian here. "I love" would simply be "amo". "Mi amore" is an object here, rather than a verb, translating to "my love". So a most likely translation would be "my love cadence". Of course, then there's the differentiation between "my love cadence" or "my love, Cadence", given that the former could also be written as "mi cadenza d'amore", "my cadence of love". Not that this isn't synonymous with lovesong, canzone d'amore, though "my love song" certainly has a better sound to it when literally translated...especially given the song My Cadence, by Matthew Mosier who uses a lyric to such an effect. Buuuuut, a cadence is not a song.

 

At any rate, pretty sure they intended it to be the first interpretation. Could be Latin, as well, though the genitive declension (possessive) would be mei rather than mi, and cadenza derives from Italian.

 

Aaaanywho...nothing else to see here.

[Daring_Do 552]

 If you have an example of an exception to this rule, please provide it because I can't just take your word for it. I haven't seen an alicorn in this show that wasn't a princess, neither have I seen vice-versa.

The Ticket Master, Rarity wanted to become a princess by marriage. Princess Platinum too (though that title's pre-Equestria-founding) and Princess Amore of the Crystal Empire (also pre-Equestria-founding).

Edited October 24, 2015 by Daring_Do

[Shanks 10,811]

He's just a lowly prince consort, not true royalty.

So he is just a pretty boy for Cadence to bone? I suppose the royal baby had to be conceived somehow though he was guard captain before his marriage to Cadence. Joking aside it seems like Cadence has been royalty for so long that everyone is used to calling her "Princess Cadence" while the same cannot be said of Shining Armor, also Captain Shining Armor rolls off the tongue a bit better and I wouldn't be surprised if many of his former subordinates still called him that.

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

I made no mention of one existing in the show as of present, nor do I necessarily expect to see one in the show itself unless DHX gets the opportunity to invest a lot of screentime into someone like Shining. I just said there's no reason whatsoever to believe that one couldn't ascend or that there's any discrimination against a stallion becoming one. To argue against that would be to argue that they'd reject a candidate because of their gender, which would be totally unreasonable and unjustifiable. I don't think there are any other alicorns currently around other than the four we've seen. Though, to be fair, Cadance was an unexpected surprise back when people thought Celestia and Luna were the only two.

 

And of course Rarity and Twilight would think she was a princess. Twilight is female, and all of the alicorns we've seen have been royalty. What else would you expect them to assume? You're not really making a point there, because if they saw a stallion that's an alicorn, they'd assume a prince. It's just the logical conclusion based on the ponies gender and the apparent role of alicorns, not some sort of implication.

 

And really, the bottom line for alicorns and non-alicorns is that alicorns princesses or princes probably have some level of greater authority or something than non-alicorn princesses or princes. If there's a hierarchy, it's alicorn rulers > non alicorn rulers, not princesses > princes or anything silly like that. If Shining Armor were an alicorn, I can guarantee you he would have equal authority/responsibility as the other alicorns. What specifically the difference between alicorns and non-alicorns is though, I'm not sure.

 

I think my points flew over your head completely. You're talking like you think I'm trying to claim that there is an alicorn prince alive RIGHT NOW, when in reality I don't think there are any others around than the four we currently have. The only thing I'm really saying is that either gender can ascend and there's nothing to suggest one would be brushed off or rejected for alicornhood based on something irrelevant like what genitals you have. Whether we'll actually get an alicorn prince in the show, I don't know. What I do know is that there's no reason to believe that gender is relevant to who can become one.

 

As for the show? You're right that one of it's focuses is great female characters, and they often get more screentime, but you know what? It's never portrayed one gender as being dominant or superior or anything of that sort, and there's no reason whatsoever to think otherwise. The show is fine as-is though, not saying they need to change it, but the whole "only princesses can be alicorns" nonsense is a load of rubbish that simply doesn't fly in-universe, regardless of whether or not we actually ever see an alicorn prince within the course of the show itself. The show may give female characters more screentime, and we see more into their lives, but Equestria is quite clearly a gender-egalitarian society, and there's nothing to indicate one gender is discriminated against or advantaged.

 

The thing that makes a difference between a ruler being an alicorn or not is their merit for the role and things like that, their gender does not play a part. It's been made entirely clear that alicornhood is earned, not inherited. Anyone who believes the nonsensical argument that someone would be rejected or ruled out because of their gender, is just being completely unreasonable. There is no sexism in the show. It does a great job at portraying interesting female characters, and the focus in screentime is usually on them, but this notion that Equestria is being portrayed as some sort of matriarchy is clearly false. A cartoon like this can have a positive portrayal of one gender without portraying a fictional society where the other gender are at a disadvantage or something else that would indeed be very harmful, problematic and out of place for the benevolent society of Equestria. The princesses are excellent characters, but that is NOT coming at the expense of male characters, whether in-universe or from our own perspective as viewers of the show. Again, female characters tend to have more screentime/focus in this show, but they aren't being portrayed as superior or dominant or anything ridiculous like that.

 

I typed this up quicker than usual, so sorry if there are any typos or anything. Just got home from Walmart, don't feel like doing any super intensive and stressful reviewing or worrying too much about the precise wording like I often do.

You make some good points, but gender relations are a tricky tightrope and it's foolish to believe that gender didn't have any role in choosing who the leaders of Equestria were from a meta rather than in-universe perspective. In-universe, it's probably a coincidence, but of course gender marketing has something to do with it from a meta standpoint. Equestria doesn't exist in a vacuum from the real world - these notions and issues are what shape the way the world is written.

 

I am fine with it if it doesn't do this at the expense of male characters. As far as the alicorn issue, this isn't a problem. However, the show has had a problem with this in areas such as Spike's character development and Snips and Snails (who are sexist even in name), in which case I won't give up in drawing attention to it where it still is a problem. But that's a different topic for a different day. It doesn't belong in this thread, and if we are to have a discussion about it, it belongs in a different one.

 

The Ticket Master, Rarity wanted to become a princess by marriage. Princess Platinum too (though that title's pre-Equestria-founding) and Princess Amore of the Crystal Empire (also pre-Equestria-founding).

Princess Amore's canonicity is dubious, because she did appear in the comics. Amy Keating Rogers referenced her by name but never in an episode. Rarity only spoke to the possibility of being such and you already said it about Princess Platinum (pre-Equestria), so Your Mileage May Vary on these. At the very least it opens up the possibility even though we don't have a concrete example, but the current fact of the matter is that all depicted Equestrian princesses are alicorns and all depicted princes are not.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Wind Chaser

[cider float 2,537]

His name is too long that's why. He was only referred to "the prince" once in that one episode. 

[UnknownFry 169]

I figure it is more of a matter formality as Shining Armor does not seem like the type to insist upon being called his title, and it may also have to do with the greater recognition the general populace has for the alicorns as well as those are far more easier to recognize and acknowledge by title.

 

There is also the notion that the title of prince is not as important (at least overtly so) as princess as well.

 

I don't think it is a big deal, and I would it say depends on the pony in question referencing Shining Armor as well. Twilight and Cadence, and the other princesses are unlikely to reference him by the title prince, but some of the other ponies such as those in the Crystal Empire would.

 

Maybe for the same reason as Twilight? 

 

Twilight has been referenced by her title more so than Shining Armor especially since taking on the role of the Princess of Friendship, however you may be unto something here as Twilight is not really big into formalities herself.

Edited October 25, 2015 by UnknownFry