*SPOILERS* Is Queen Chrysalis, Luna in disguise?

[SoundRaptured 139]

Look guys, this is a TV show intended for k-3rd grade little girls. I seriously doubt they'll have a plot twist that intricate.

Plus Luna is adorable. I mean honestly folks.

[SparkBrony 379]

Look guys, this is a TV show intended for k-3rd grade little girls. I seriously doubt they'll have a plot twist that intricate.

Plus Luna is adorable. I mean honestly folks.

Hey. We're bronies. We like to super-over-analyze the show . Just look at the guy who wrote a 16-page psychological analysis of Pinkie Pie. (I forget who that was, but somepony did it. )

[TheGr3ml1n 57]

Look guys, this is a TV show intended for k-3rd grade little girls. I seriously doubt they'll have a plot twist that intricate.

Plus Luna is adorable. I mean honestly folks.

That may be so, but if Alicorn Twilight hadn't been revealed ahead of time it would've been a pretty big twist, don't you think?

 

As for the idea that it being a kids show being the reason it can't be pulled off, if Lauren Faust, who's entire purpose was to challenge what people saw as a "little girls" show, planned it from the beginning, who's to say it couldn't happen?

 

 

Of course, I know it's probably not true, but if I was a writer, i'd think it would be the perfect way to end the show with a bang

[SoundRaptured 139]

That may be so, but if Alicorn Twilight hadn't been revealed ahead of time it would've been a pretty big twist, don't you think?

 

As for the idea that it being a kids show being the reason it can't be pulled off, if Lauren Faust, who's entire purpose was to challenge what people saw as a "little girls" show, planned it from the beginning, who's to say it couldn't happen?

 

 

Of course, I know it's probably not true, but if I was a writer, i'd think it would be the perfect way to end the show with a bang

Not really. I didn't actually spoil it for myself and I watched the Alicorn episode before I knew anything about it and it didn't surprise me too much. I mean she was training to become princess anyway right? that's the impression I got.

 

Hey. We're bronies. We like to super-over-analyze the show . Just look at the guy who wrote a 16-page psychological analysis of Pinkie Pie. (I forget who that was, but somepony did it. )

True enough, but like I said INTENDED for five year olds. XD just like halo is intended for teens, and the few who do play are disappointed by the seven year olds that wet themselves when they get sniped. XDD

[ManlyStitches 4]

im getting so many good ideas about this theory that i am almost completely convinced it is intentional and is part of the writing.  i am currently writing down all my thoughts and fleshing them out, and i will make a video when i am done. and i will post it here.  i soooo hope the writers are doing what i hope they are doing. 

[Guest]

No, and with all due respect it's kind of silly to speculate otherwise. Princess Luna would never do something so heinous, she was evil once but then went back to being a benevolent ruler, not to mention she has no real motive to do so.

[Carbon Maestro 1,003]

What a twist. However funny it is to think Luna is Chrysalis, in the end I see it highly unlikely. I think she was just asleep during the day, which is when all the stuff happened.

[TheGr3ml1n 57]

No, and with all due respect it's kind of silly to speculate otherwise. Princess Luna would never do something so heinous, she was evil once but then went back to being a benevolent ruler, not to mention she has no real motive to do so.

There was a question asked that made me consider this theory in the first place. The question was this:

 

Luna was banished to the moon for a thousand years. She's had that much time to plan her revenge. But when she gets back, she's defeated in twenty minutes?

 

This can be explained two ways: One, it wasn't really considered in writing and just brushed off, or two, it's part of the overall story-arc.

 

Now don't get me wrong, i'm still not entirely convinced about this. I'm actually less convinced Luna is a changeling, and more convinced she just had a part in what happened. There seems to be an awful lot of coincidences between the MLP storyline and a famous Tolkien novel, which is part of the reason this theory seems to have any merit.

 

I also like to think that the main storyline of the entire show isn't already over. It gives me hope for how they'll handle Twilicorn.

[ManlyStitches 4]

we see luna actually drive the plot of the episode in exactly ONE episode (ok, you can argue she drives the plot of sleepless in ponyville too).  she isnt exactly a fleshed out character.  so to all the people that say "oh, luna would NEVER do that!!", how do you know?  ponys obviously still hate and fear her.  we know that from her ONE episode.  thats motive enough.  im not going to drop this theory until we see luna actually do something generous, heart-felt, or heroic in the name of equestria and ponykind.

[hawkflame 3,310]

This theory is in total violation of the spirit of the show, and especially the themes of redemption and second chances shown in episodes like Friendship is Magic Part 2 and Luna Eclipsed.  It weakens the Elements of Harmony, and frankly I don't see why people are even entertaining this, seeing as the show would never go in this direction, and this was almost certainly never the writers' intent.  

I believe scythe already explained alot of things, but the elements of harmony I want to give you my two cents.

 

The elements have always been used throughout the show. Celestia used it against Luna, Twilight and friends used it against Luna, used to turn Discord to stone, and more and more. Okay that makes, but what doesnt make sense is that in season one the elements purged evil. If this was true then how come they didnt work when Celestia used it against Luna the first place and why did Celestia have to banish Luna in the moon for a 1000 years. 

 

Also why doesnt the Elements reform Discord when they use it against him. If those are the same elements wouldnt the elements banish all the evil from Discord and make him good like Luna. In reality we dont know how the elements work, but if they worked the way we think they do then wouldnt Discord be good like Luna.

 

Yes, the portrayal of the Elements hasn't been consistent, but what you're saying here doesn't necessarily make it *more* consistent.  You still have three different outcomes for three different usages of the Elements.  Instead of "banish to the moon," "purge evil," "turn to stone", you have "banish to the moon," "do nothing," "turn to stone". 

 

My guess?  Different effects on different threats/situations, perhaps dependent to some degree on the wielder's intent. 

[IronPonyApplejack 318]

Of course she's not. To think she could be is silly. It violates her character, the spirit and narrative of the show, and honestly doesn't make sense.

 

Also, why is this thread marked "spoilers"? The wedding was season 2.

[Aeon Of Dreams 115]

You got this from Antony C and BronyCurious's review of a Royal Canterlot Wedding didn't you? For those who don't know what I refer to, it is this.

 

[TheGr3ml1n 57]

I have been partially dissuaded from this theory, not because I believe the writers couldn't work in the story of Luna's revenge into the plot over time (as well as not step on any toes regarding the morals of the show), but because i'm not convinced they would go so far as to create such an intricate plot-line that, while it does have some evidence backing it up, has at least as much evidence against it.

 

However, if somehow it is true, and the writers are really planning on having Luna return to Nightmare Moon, (I don't believe myself that Luna is Chrysalis) and we assume that the Tolkien novel(s) The Silmarillion have anything to do with it, then it is worth noting that Discord and Nightmare Moon were once intended to be one and the same. (An interview with Lauren Faust revealed that they were originally supposed to be the same character, or at least that Nightmare Moon's original name was in fact Discord.)

 

In the video which has been posted multiple times in this thread, it is mentioned that the main baddy of Tolkien's story was the ruler of "Darkness and Chaos". At some point, he's brought down from his position of power, and asks for forgiveness while secretly planning his revenge. The significance of having the words "Darkness and Chaos" is that it is the exact combination of Nightmare Moon and Discord.

 

 

However, as some have said, you have the whole issue of it going against the message of the show and weakening the effect of the EoH. I do think this can be explained, if for example the Elements did have a significant effect, but (and this is pretty wild speculation) being that Nightmare Moon had enough warning ahead of time, she created a sort of "contingency plan", something that would resurrect her old self in the form of Nightmare Moon.

 

This could all be resolved because, while Nightmare Moon would have counted for almost every variable, she didn't account for her friendship with Twilight. In the end, it's that connection that prevents her from bringing about eternal night once again.

[~Mellow Slash~ 24]

Though the ponies have to same looking look, they have really different personalities, especially in the comics, Luna is the helper rather than the causer! Good theory but highly unlikely!  

[Treble Bolt 1,122]

my one and only response to this is....someone's been watching Bronycurious and Antony C commentaries...

 

 

The cake is a lie, and so is Chrysalis

[hawkflame 3,310]

However, as some have said, you have the whole issue of it going against the message of the show and weakening the effect of the EoH. I do think this can be explained, if for example the Elements did have a significant effect, but (and this is pretty wild speculation) being that Nightmare Moon had enough warning ahead of time, she created a sort of "contingency plan", something that would resurrect her old self in the form of Nightmare Moon.

 

This could all be resolved because, while Nightmare Moon would have counted for almost every variable, she didn't account for her friendship with Twilight. In the end, it's that connection that prevents her from bringing about eternal night once again.

 

I think that the very idea of even having a workaround or contingency plan around "friendship" still violates the spirit of the show, and the idea that friendship and love conquers all.

[TheGr3ml1n 57]

I think that the very idea of even having a workaround or contingency plan around "friendship" still violates the spirit of the show, and the idea that friendship and love conquers all.

Well... obviously the show isn't going for realism, but if we were to be realistic, it would make sense for such a villain to have a contingency plan.

 

I see your point, and i'm not saying I entirely agree they would take such a drastic risk in the show. But I also think that there's enough room for them to create a plausible explanation that doesn't violate the meaning of the show if they really wanted to.

[Silver fox 117 49]

Well I see that the biggest argument against this theory is that the writers wont do this. I can't really argue against this, and none of know what is inside the authors minds. However, this wouldn't be the first time a children's show has a recurring villain. Many children shows had villains that keep coming back, so why should my little pony be different.

 

 

This theory is in total violation of the spirit of the show, and especially the themes of redemption and second chances shown in episodes like Friendship is Magic Part 2 and Luna Eclipsed.  It weakens the Elements of Harmony, and frankly I don't see why people are even entertaining this, seeing as the show would never go in this direction, and this was almost certainly never the writers' intent.  

 

Yes, the portrayal of the Elements hasn't been consistent, but what you're saying here doesn't necessarily make it *more* consistent.  You still have three different outcomes for three different usages of the Elements.  Instead of "banish to the moon," "purge evil," "turn to stone", you have "banish to the moon," "do nothing," "turn to stone". 

 

My guess?  Different effects on different threats/situations, perhaps dependent to some degree on the wielder's intent. 

 

 

 

Plus, Luna being evil doesn't necessarily brake the spirit of the show at all. I mean they can still use friendship to kick her arse again. I just don't think that this theory goes against the spirit of the show. Also, how do you know the writers intent, and every season of the show the elements of harmony keep weakening themselves. Every season keeps suggesting that the elements aren't the most powerful thing in the universe. I mean they couldn't stop Chrysalis.

 

Please explain to me, and don't say the authors just wont do that, as that is not a good argument (yes this theory is over the top. That is what make it fun).

Edited June 5, 2013 by Silver fox 117

[Emperor Posh 360]

What if this theory is true, and it is a huge twist that includes Discord. Maybe having Discord side with Nightmare Moon, or even having Discord and Nightmare Moon against each other. Very interesting indeed. I hope to see something in the first few episodes of season 4.

[Malinter 3,064]

I don't think she is. For one thing, whats the point when Luna's Nightmare Moon persona has access to more powers than just an army of midgets, love drinking and Mind control. Luna would know what Cadence's magic could do and not stand there.

 

I would believe that Chrysallis MAY have been an alicorn at one point. Maybe she also tried Starswirls spell and became that, Many folks think Chrysallis is the alicorn from H&HD, an alicorn cursed by love poison sound more likely to be Chrysallis than a dreamwalking princess of the night.

[FNGRpony 658]

Luna disguised herself as a ghastly creature that has chunks missing out if it's anatomy? How did she do that? More importantly, why would the writes add such a sloppy plot hole and not use it?

why would they write a canter-lot wedding.  your guess is as good as mine.

 

I liked anthony c and tommy oliver's spin on this.

is it true?  nah, but i can cross my fingers and hope.

[Fhaolan 4,483]

why would they write a canter-lot wedding.  your guess is as good as mine.

 

I liked anthony c and tommy oliver's spin on this.

is it true?  nah, but i can cross my fingers and hope.

 

While Tommy & Anthony's video does amuse me, I really like their follow-on video they did with Digi. Switching up the characters a bit would really fix a lot of the 'issues' with the episode. Pity that it didn't happen that way, but I can understand if the writers/Hasbro/Hub would have had a bad feeling about the idea. It might be a tad too much implied 'Sexual Predator' for them.

[FNGRpony 658]

While Tommy & Anthony's video does amuse me, I really like their follow-on video they did with Digi. Switching up the characters a bit would really fix a lot of the 'issues' with the episode. Pity that it didn't happen that way, but I can understand if the writers/Hasbro/Hub would have had a bad feeling about the idea. It might be a tad too much implied 'Sexual Predator' for them.

 

and queen chyselias isn't?

 

I mean seriously aren't changelings the sucubie of equistra?

I mean they eat LOVE.  Its as close as a kids show is gonna get.

[BalanceBrony 259]

Hiya everypony! I read the whole thread, and I noticed that nopony has brought up the season 4 sneak preview animatic.

 

 

In the season 4 sneak preview, we see Nightmare Moon and Twilight Sparkle standing in front of each other, with no sign of Princess Celestia nearby.

 

 

That being said, this fact means one of two things. Either, we are going to see some kind of time travel thing, or Luna is actually evil still.

 

I do not see how time travelling back 1000 years would really contribute much to the future of the show. It is a repetitive plot element, and it will not add much to character development or overall storyline. I just don't see why this kind of scene would be in there, aside from instituting an epic twist to impress everypony, and teach amazing lessons about friendship (such as dealing with jealousy, and giving people multiple chances). It would also fill out some annoying plot-holes, like the inconsistency of the EoH regarding Luna. But overall, I think that the animatic should definitely be considered in this discussion.

 

EDIT: Ohh, and is anypony willing to speculate using the S4E1 synopsis?

 

Both Luna and Celestia disappear, and a mysterious foe has arisen, which threatens to spread the Everfree Forest until it encompasses all of Equestria. And apparently, there is an astonishing secret about the EoH...

 

Edited October 27, 2013 by BalanceBrony

[Denim&Venöm 18,688]

People keep complaining that a flaw with the theory is Luna controlling the changeling army. What if she didn't sway them, deceive them or control them. What if they are Luna's subjects? The changelings do have equine traits, maybe they are just a different kind of pony alongside earth, unicorn, pegasai & crystal.

 

And perhaps this wasn't only Luna's plan. What if Luna wasn't doing this out of sinister intentions? What if this was all a test? What if Celestia was in on the whole thing? Maybe that's how she lost; on purpose. They may have all been one big test for Twilight sparkle, Cadence and Shining Armor, the newest members of Equestria's royalty, to see how they would act if the Princess were to fall.  Cadence, Armor, Twi and the rest of Canterlot may no have been in any real danger. That could explain the raising of the shield, the ineffectiveness or near total absence of the Canterlot guard.