Is it time to give Starlight the boot?

[Heavenly Inexplicit 309]

No, I like the little ponies! I wouldn't want any more to be removed.

 

 

Rather than being punished, she needs

to know what she did wrong, and learn to fix it.

 

Starlight has been doing this mind control stuff for quite some

time, so it's second nature to her. She doesn't know any better.

If she was simply banished, or demoted then she wouldn't be able

to function in normal society, due to her bad habits. She would be

too dangerous. Twilight is giving her a second chance, by teaching her how to

cooperate with other ponies, and how to function in society.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Heavenly Sun

[Justin_Case001 4,907]

No, I don't think they should give her the boot.  I have always liked her, but I really think there should have been steeper consequences for that latest sh*t she pulled.  Real people make mistakes, and real people often make the same mistakes many times.  It makes her more believable that she isn't perfect, and that her road is difficult with ups and downs.  Anyone trying to overcome a problem like hers in real life knows that it can be a lifelong battle.  You don't just win and it's over.  But this last stunt was so f*cked up and unethical that I think there should have been some kind of punishment besides "Now say you're sorry, young lady."  I don't know what, but something.  Possibly one week in Tartarus. 

[Goat-kun 2,530]

Trotting Shitpost Mono Paragraph Goat Blast!

 

Starlight is a powerful unicorn who acts like Star Butterfly if Star Butterfly was a heartless, boring girl with a very ordinary way of thinking that had to be forced to apologize for her many, many magical screw-ups every episode focusing on her issues. You can scream forgiveness all you want, but I don’t think Marco would want to have anything to do with such a person, and neither would the fandom. Besides, everything Starlight does can also be executed (or was executed already) with another character. So we have this pony that is not only visually and thematically disappointing as a reformed villain, but is also fighting with Twilight for episode space instead of promoting Twilight’s growth, making her practically an unnecessary addition that solves fewer problems than the F-35 program while costing just as much in terms of fan support and Mane 6 development. A few things should be, as PR would say, relocated to another department.

[cmarston1 5,959]

Seeing as how she isn't really that interesting, bad Reformation aside, I wouldn't really care one way or another if we don't see her after this season. I generally don't feel like the writers did all that they could with her to justify her inclusion in the season.

[simba86 1,541]

I like starlight glimmer, she replaces the awkward ,trouble with friendship twilight we lost when twilight got wings. starlight is still getting used to friendship and nothing she has done has even came close to what discord did LOL

[Sunny Fox 5,952]

I haven't watched the episode yet. Does Starlight do something bad? (Like perhaps, just throwing this out there - mind controlling ponies into what she thinks they should be doing against their will?)

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,824]

I think the writers are just going way too slow with Starlight's development. They gotta speed things up since Starlight has great potential. We still have the S6 finale to witness. 

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

Starlight doesn't need to get the boot. After what she's done though, she just needs a good spanking.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

 

 

Possibly one week in Tartarus. 

One week with a Three-headed adorable bulldog? Not so bad. 

[Unicorncob 5,714]

Starlight should be thrown out because she's making mistakes?

 

Wow, it's like she's actually taking her time to get her bad habits sorted and work through her social anxiety or something!

 

How dare she, right?

[Mesme Rize 15,687]

I am actually glad that they take the time, to sort out her mistakes, instead of her getting fixed in a minute.

 

Or else, it would be like this Trainwreck:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hpPOZGpHFk

 

Luna: "I am sad."

Twilight: "No you're not."

Luna: "You're right."

[That Guy with the CMB 5,876]

Abso-lutely not! Starlight is a wonderful character to me, and I honestly feel like she really learned her lesson.

 

 

I love Glim-Glam, I don't wanna see her go. D:

[Thrond 3,263]

I don't see what everypony's problem is. Some people are just like that. Sometimes people make the same mistakes over and over again before it finally sinks in that what they are doing is wrong. It just takes time and enough times of doing the same mistake and learning and having that lesson drilled into their heads over and over again for them to finally realize the problem. 

 

You see, the thing is that while they know in their subconsciousness that what they are doing is wrong, they are not actively thinking about what they are doing at the time. They are simply falling into a sort of habit or programmed routine that they have done in order to solve a problem. Much like a drug habit in fact! They don't think about what is going to happen or why they are going to take the drugs, they just know that X has happened or is causing a situation and therefor Y is the solution and you need to do Z to do it.

 

For Starlight all she has ever known her entire life is Magic magic MAGIC! She has never once talked to other ponies since she got her cutie mark or rather she never had friends or conversations with with. She has lived an entire life by herself in her own little world of only magic which is why she is more powerful than twilight in a lot of respects, even though she is only a unicorn and twilight is an alicorn.

 

So, if we follow the formula I just presented to you from before we have

 

X ( She has a problem that involves ponies ) + Y ( The Solution would be for her to take control of the situation) = Z ( Mind Control or manipulation is needed to take control of the situation to solve the problem so the problem no longer exists) 

 

It is only until she realizes that this formula is what is causing her to lose out on friendship problems and is prohibiting her social progress as a mentally healthy pony will she ever be able to break free from the subconscious programmed routine that she falls into when X happens. 

 

Currently she only realizes Z is the problem when an external source shows her the retrospect. 

 

The writers are really quite brilliant for designing characters this well thought out and life like! 

I think "Every Little Thing She Does" was pretty clearly one of the more complex episodes this show has yet offered, and for that reason I'm still processing it, and I really do appreciate the layers of nuance given to her character, but... I dunno. I'm certainly willing to forgive her, and I'm happy to see how she's growing, but I dunno, her actions are starting to get too alarming without any significant redeeming qualities which make me really care about her. The faults are all complex and engaging, and as an example of someone who can change for the better with the right guidance, she's excellent and belongs in the show, but I'm finding it harder to enjoy her as a character when I find some of her actions so alarming. 

 

 

And why the hell do people keep demanding that redeemable villains are punished in a show where forgiveness is one of the central themes? Is it an american thing, ingrained into the culture? Don't you guys still use capital punishment?

That seems to be the brunt of it, as far as I can tell, though I'm starting to wish her actions faced slightly stronger consequences just to give her stories a little more weight.

[cmarston1 5,959]

 

 

That seems to be the brunt of it, as far as I can tell, though I'm starting to wish her actions faced slightly stronger consequences just to give her stories a little more weight.

 

This is exactly why I am rather lukewarm to her character.

I honestly feel like that Starlight hasn't faced any major obstacles all seasons, and or hasn't had to work very hard to overcome the obstacles that she did face this season, with the possible exception of No Second Prances.

If she faced stronger consequences to her actions of mind controlling her supposed friends, and having to do more than just a simple apology and a montage to fix her mistakes in the episode, I would have liked it a bit more.

I also would have enjoyed Starlight's character and the episode a lot more if we got episodes featuring her interacting and befriending a member of the mane 6 individually through out the season, so I could actually believe that she is friends with the main characters not named Twilight or Spike.

[ponyperson17 9]

I think Starlight is better off with the main six. If Starlight was kicked out, I could only imagine that she would get revenge. Starlight is NOT a copy of Sunset. She had a different motive, she took longer to reform, (the reformation was pretty realistic too, in comparison to a world of magical talking horses) and oh, SHE MAKES MISTAKES. Starlight is more than you think she is. So therefore, I hope Starlight stays for at least one more season.

 

[Kings&Hooves14 616]

I like Starlight! She's not favorite character, but I do like her.

 

I think she deserves more chances--she's obviously trying to do better. It takes a significant amount of time and effort to reform! IMO, it would be unfair to give her the boot.

She's more powerful than most ponies, so that her mistakes have bigger consequences. 

[bluseymoe 258]

They should never have let her join the mane cast to begin with. She belongs in a mental institution, not among civilized ponies.

[Thrond 3,263]

This is exactly why I am rather lukewarm to her character.

I honestly feel like that Starlight hasn't faced any major obstacles all seasons, and or hasn't had to work very hard to overcome the obstacles that she did face this season, with the possible exception of No Second Prances.

If she faced stronger consequences to her actions of mind controlling her supposed friends, and having to do more than just a simple apology and a montage to fix her mistakes in the episode, I would have liked it a bit more.

I also would have enjoyed Starlight's character and the episode a lot more if we got episodes featuring her interacting and befriending a member of the mane 6 individually through out the season, so I could actually believe that she is friends with the main characters not named Twilight or Spike.

1. I think the intention is that the obstacles she faces are within her; she herself is the obstacle. We see her taking actions without considering the consequences, leading to other getting hurt, and that seems to be the main source of conflict in her episodes. But it might add more weight to her stories if there were stronger consequences to revolve her character development around - anything that makes it clear she'll actually change and not continue to realize she's done something wrong without realizing what she can learn from that. 
2. I suspect she's not supposed to be a particularly close friend to the rest of the mane six. She's more Twilight's pet project than anything else, even if they are trying to incorporate her into the friend group. Unfortunately, her slow burn character development wouldn't really work well with fully making her part of the mane six, so I think we'll need to wait for her initial arc to be done with before her stories start opening up a little. 

Edited September 26, 2016 by AlexanderThrond

[M'gann M'orzz 745]

I am actually glad that they take the time, to sort out her mistakes, instead of her getting fixed in a minute.

 

Or else, it would be like this Trainwreck:

 

 

Luna: "I am sad."

Twilight: "No you're not."

Luna: "You're right."

 

Yeah seriously I think the big problem is people are letting "how likable is this character" or just straight up "how much do I LIKE this character" cloud their judgement heavily  Because really, Starlight's current characterization actually makes a hell of a lot more sense than Reformed Sunset who just flat out feels like a completely different character than Villain Sunset and we never see that happening at ALL see does a 180 characterization flip BETWEEN MOVIES. Annnndd the fandom worships her. Because she's just SO LIKABLE AND SAINTLIKE (and don't get me wrong I actually rather like her too but I am cognizant that her  character flip between movies was far too much)

 

Luna is all over the damn place, she's dealt with her angst like 3 freaking times at this point, and your example is from a particularly weak episode with an ending frankly more rushed than Starlight's initial reformation. but people LOVE IT because LUNNNAAA OMMMGGG!!!1111!111!! Flat out the most inconsistent major character, but worshiped to the point she's arguably more popular than the Mane 6 because reasons.

 

 

And then you have Discord, who's been reformed for like 3 Seasons now, has actually TURNED AGAINST EQUESTRIA AND LITERALLY HANDED THE MANE 6 TO TIREK before, and frankly still is just as maladjusted as Starlight is after one season of being reformed, AND THE FANDOM TRIPS ALL OVER HIM TOO. And hey you know what I actually agree, there. Because Discord shares the same strength as Starlight in that he STILL FEELS LIKE THE SAME CHARACTER HE WAS WHEN HE WAS EVIL. Only now he's TRYING to be good but it takes a damn while for someone to change that much. Starlight's post reformation characterization is far better written and makes far more sense than Sunset Shimmer or Luna's but she's deemed unlikable so she gets bashed endlessly.  It's Freaking insanity. 

Edited September 26, 2016 by M'gann M'orzz

[Thrond 3,263]

Yeah seriously I think the big problem is people are letting "how likable is this character" or just straight up "how much do I LIKE this character" cloud their judgement heavily  Because really, Starlight's current characterization actually makes a hell of a lot more sense than Reformed Sunset who just flat out feels like a completely different character than Villain Sunset and we never see that happening at ALL see does a 180 characterization flip BETWEEN MOVIES. Annnndd the fandom worships her. Because she's just SO LIKABLE AND SAINTLIKE (and don't get me wrong I actually rather like her too but I am cognizant that her  character flip between movies was far too much)

A while ago I came to the conclusion that this is because Sunset literally had empathy forced into her. Particularly for the once-a-year structure of those movies, I think it's mostly for the best, but Starlight's current characterization is certainly a great deal more complex as far as reformations go. 

 

 

Luna is all over the damn place, she's dealt with her angst like 3 freaking times at this point, and your example is from a particularly weak episode with an ending frankly more rushed than Starlight's initial reformation. but people LOVE IT because LUNNNAAA OMMMGGG!!!1111!111!! Flat out the most inconsistent major character, but worshiped to the point she's arguably more popular than the Mane 6 because reasons.

Have a particularly difficult time understanding how anyone can justify the way that particular episode ends. Pretty sure most people have a much harder time just "getting over it." 

 

 

Yeah seriously I think the big problem is people are letting "how likable is this character" or just straight up "how much do I LIKE this character" cloud their judgement heavily.

But, back to your main point, this is actually something I'm struggling a lot with in regards to that latest episode. It certainly gives Starlight a lot of complexity, and yet I came out of it with a less positive opinion of the character than I had before. It's not like she's charmless, and I'm usually receptive to that sort of complexity (hell, I'm the one guy who likes "Newbie Dash"), and yet I'm finding it more and more difficult to be invested in Starlight, and while it feels like that's just because I'm finding it harder to straightforwardly like her, that doesn't seem like a great reason. Fascinated to see where she goes next, though. 

[Marimo 555]

 

 

and making her leave the castle (like Sunbutt did to Sunset Shimmer)

First off, Celestia never made Sunset leave. Sunset chose to leave herself.

 

 

 

Twi stripping her of the priveledge of being her student, and making her leave the castle (like Sunbutt did to Sunset Shimmer)., and Twi gets to try again with a new student, who is warmer toward the idea of friendship without magical abuse and mind control shenanegans.

 

That would just be a dick move since Twilight was the one who asked her to be her student and teach her friendship. She saw Starlight as someone with potential but needed guidance, and if she makes mistakes then that just means she needs more guidance, not that she should be shooed away. Twilight wasn't even actively looking for a student to being with, so she has no reason to also go and find a replacement.

 

 

 

When Sunbutt learned that Twilight had mind controlled the town, Twilight was disciplined

Not really. From all of what we saw and heard, Celestia just told Twilight that she was an excellent student and didn't need to send her reports every single week (and no real criticism for how Twilight chose to escalate things), then her friends came in and took the blame anyways which Celestia just went with and also decided to have them write reports to her as well.

 

For Starlight in comparison, Twilight does criticize her actions, asking her how mind controlling was a good idea and such, and specifically told her that she was disappointed. And then Starlight actually has to apologize instead of someone else taking the blame.

 

 

 

Should her three strikes be it for her? Should her word of forgiveness be taken seriously, with what we see of her track record of using magic to bend others to her will?

Please. Discord should also know better, and he's done a lot worse than what Starlight's done, done it more often, and with worse intent even after reforming then Starlight has had, and Fluttershy still hasn't decided to end their friendship. I think they can cut Starlight the same amount of slack.

[J.R. 3,183]

Starlight should be thrown out because she's making mistakes?

 

Wow, it's like she's actually taking her time to get her bad habits sorted and work through her social anxiety or something!

 

How dare she, right?

Yeah, because the writers themselves actually aren't to blame for this for once.

 

I suppose the intellectual approach towards a character and how they realistically fit into a world where they're clearly trying their hardest is a sin, right?

 

I guess the simplification of sorts that's been used to other characters to instantly redeem them and give fluctuation in characterization is the way to go, because realism within fiction is boring.

 

*looks at how graphic novels have been referenced and/or translated into some of the best selling video games like Professor Layton, Phoenix Wright, LA Noire, and Mafia* Oh wait...

Edited September 26, 2016 by J.R.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

I dunno why the hate on Starlight messing up. We've seen the Mane Six screw up so many times before! Especially Spike, and even the CMCs, Big Mac, and even Luna screwed up sometimes!

 

Spike is the best example for your complaint: he messed up the same times over and over again before season 6, and now look how better he's gotten! Starlight's still new, and I'm sure she'll improve! Ya gotta give the crew a chance. I'm sure it's not gonna take 5 seasons to make Starlight better!

but with mind control? The same morally questionable issue again and again?

[Thrond 3,263]

but with mind control? The same morally questionable issue again and again?

We know that's a problem of hers. She doesn't consider how her actions affect others. But, under Twilight's guidance, she's improving - it's just that these bad habits won't go away overnight. 

 

I just wish the episode more directly confronted Starlight about that, so it was at least acknowledged as an area she needs to work on. 

[Professional Horse 94]

but with mind control? The same morally questionable issue again and again?

Wait what? Hasn't she only used direct mind control once? When she made Big Mac speak it wasn't really mind control, and when she founded her little cult there was no mind control involved.