Starlight's Impulse control

[ManaMinori 4,145]

I think its time we address the elephant in the room- which is very clearly Starlight's impulse control with magic. We've seen her abuse magic, regardless of morality, time and time again- in "The Cutie Map", in"Every Little thing she does", and while I thought she would've learned her lesson in "To Where and Back again", in not needing magic to solve a problem, I guess it still didn't get through to her, after that slap on the wrist she got after mind controlling her friends, and enslaving an entire town of ponies whose marks she took. (I'm sorry, but can we address the fact that even AFTER that, she has a specific spell on hoof that switches the cutie marks of ponies, for 24 hours, meaning she refined it enough to have it, to know what it does, how it works, and for how long?) The newest episode only drives home the fact that she's being rewarded with a job well done, for using her magic in ways that she shouldn't, and being impulsive about it. Some might say that that's part of her character, that she needs time to "develop" , but fact is, she's been around for 2 fudging years now. Twilight learned, after she brainwashed the entire town to fight over her doll.

If I'm going to even start to like her, I would VERY MUCH like An episode (or many episodes) that ADDRESSES and FIXES it (impulse control, and magic morality). NOT reward it by making everything hunky dory at the end of the day, which comes off as a job well done, for her to keep having an excuse to BE impulsive!

 

Thoughts?

Edited May 20, 2017 by Nightmare Muffin

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,730]

Like I said in the episode thread for A Royal Problem, I would have felt a bit better about this if it tied into another lesson about not doing things so impulsively, regardless of how good your intentions are. The end of the episode glorified her actions far too much and so it lost some points from me. Her intentions should have been commended for sure, because she wanted to do what SHE thought was best, but even though it worked out that one time, the snap reaction of her actions should have been clearly addressed. Even Starlight herself was feeling all sorts of guilt about it all, but then that was just tossed under the rug. 

[ManaMinori 4,145]

 

1 hour ago, Kyoshi said:

Like I said in the episode thread for A Royal Problem, I would have felt a bit better about this if it tied into another lesson about not doing things so impulsively, regardless of how good your intentions are. The end of the episode glorified her actions far too much and so it lost some points from me. Her intentions should have been commended for sure, because she wanted to do what SHE thought was best, but even though it worked out that one time, the snap reaction of her actions should have been clearly addressed. Even Starlight herself was feeling all sorts of guilt about it all, but then that was just tossed under the rug. 

it wou'd've felt better of she woul'd've at least TRIED to solve a problem using sensibility, and suggestion, rather than magical macguffing it right off the bat. At least have something from "To where and back again"  or the yelling she got from RD about "not using magic on your friends" , from "Every little thing she does" stick about solving problems without magic.

[Castle Bleck 19,379]

*Watches the episode.*

 

Celestia and Luna clearly give her Death Glares (TV Trope) over it, she's clearly karmatized(?) when NMM and Daybreaker show up, and the narrative clearly sees it as a not-small blunder that's nevertheless adjusted for a greater good.

[Peter16373 103]

This was exactly what I was afraid of when the episode comes out. It's always you or that other person saying Starlight is terrible in every single episode she appears in.

[Brainstorm 4,112]

I think Starlight is a good character, she has turned herself around and became a hero.

[Jeric 46,860]

I could argue that many good things I've experienced have been initiated by rapid decisions and impulsiveness. 

Going with my gut led me to my wife and family after all. The thoughtfulness usually comes later in some cases. 

Fear of taking risks all the time leads to a safer, but less experienced life. 

 

Also the Map did it!

[ManaMinori 4,145]

9 minutes ago, Peter16373 said:

This was exactly what I was afraid of when the episode comes out. It's always you or that other person saying Starlight is terrible in every single episode she appears in.

she wasn't terrible in Fluttershy Leans in. And I've said that before, but you're choosing to see what you want to see when I post.

But bucking, bloody hell, can you really blame me, when she resorts to crap like this, without even bothering to consider other solutions?

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Just now, Jeric said:

I could argue that many good things I've experienced have been initiated by rapid decisions and impulsiveness. 

Going with my gut led me to my wife and family after all. The thoughtfulness usually comes later in some cases. 

Fear of taking risks all the time leads to a safer, but less experienced life. 

 

Also the Map did it!

the twig did not do it, Jeric. Starlight initiated it, from the beginning by choosing to use magic unnecessarily, instead of advising other solutions, to get the situation done. The twig MAY have switch the marks back around in the end, but not in the beginning.

and going with your gut is not the same as "going with the impulse as soon as it hits you", and see where you land.

[M'gann M'orzz 745]

I don't know? Maybe it's her main flaw? like Fluttershy's well shyness, Rainbow's Ego, Twilight's tendency to freak the fuck out, etc etc?

 

like yeah she can get better at it but it's never gonna go away completely, Impulsiveness is one of the cores of Starlight as a character.

[Jeric 46,860]

18 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

and going with your gut is not the same as "going with the impulse as soon as it hits you", and see where you land.

It landed me married and with kids, a few degrees, fairly wealthy, and a homeowner. I gots good instincts yo!

Also, I'm a believer in Roland Barthes, so to me the Map did do it. 

17 minutes ago, M'gann M'orzz said:

I don't know? Maybe it's her main flaw? like Fluttershy's well shyness, Rainbow's Ego, Twilight's tendency to freak the fuck out, etc etc?

 

like yeah she can get better at it but it's never gonna go away completely, Impulsiveness is one of the cores of Starlight as a character.

This is how am taking it as well. It is what makes her a very interesting character to me.

[Peter16373 103]

Quote

Also, I'm a believe in Roland Barthes, so to me the Map did do it.

If I remember correctly in MLP Annual 2017 Guardians of Harmony didn't Twilight say the castle has a will of its own after it led Twilight to an armor for Spike?

[Jeric 46,860]

 

I also am going to add that impulsiveness and bad judgment are not the same thing. Starlight may actually have shown bad judgment without thinking things through in past episodes, and some have misinterpreted that as impulsiveness. Bad judgment isn't the same thing is what happened here. This was true impulsiveness. 

In fact, the longer she plans things, the worse shit gets. When she was an antagonist she planned things through extremely well.

0_o

I'm not sure she is as naturally impulsive is she is instinctually leaning and struggles with highly emotionally charged moments. 

 

 

 

[SugarCoatxMarblePie 701]

Well to be fair its a personality quirk. Like others have redemonstrated old flaws, its just her flaw. But its also a strength, and to be fair, it gives the writers something to work with.

Also if equestria had therapy, there would be no episodes lol. Episodes have conflict. If anything it makes Starlight more valuable.

Edited May 20, 2017 by CuriUndersXeno

[Will Guide 21,362]

40 minutes ago, A.V. said:

*Watches the episode.*

 

Celestia and Luna clearly give her Death Glares (TV Trope) over it, she's clearly karmatized(?) when NMM and Daybreaker show up, and the narrative clearly sees it as a not-small blunder that's nevertheless adjusted for a greater good.

You're right! Starlight's punishment was being trapped in a nightmare where the Royal Sisters evil sides battle with her caught in the crossfire! I say, she's been punished enough!

[ManaMinori 4,145]

23 minutes ago, Jeric said:

It landed me married and with kids, a few degrees, fairly wealthy, and a homeowner. I gots good instincts yo!

Also, I'm a believer in Roland Barthes, so to me the Map did do it. 

This is how am taking it as well. It is what makes her a very interesting character to me.

so just because running with your first whim works for you means it works for everyone? especially childish "I lost my friend, so I'll enslave an entire town and take away their cutie marks for however many years" reasoning ponies?

[Jeric 46,860]

44 minutes ago, A.V. said:

*Watches the episode.*

 

Celestia and Luna clearly give her Death Glares (TV Trope) over it, she's clearly karmatized(?) when NMM and Daybreaker show up, and the narrative clearly sees it as a not-small blunder that's nevertheless adjusted for a greater good.

Correct. Often times when making a instinctual decision or impulsive call there are consequences. There were here. The trick is to make proper judgement calls afterward and consider the impact of your decision, something that was touched on. 

It's also interesting to have this discussion about impulsiveness in a fandom that I've experienced as highly impulsive itself -- both positively and negatively. Almost obsessively impulsive at times. The possible psychological and social implications are facinating as I analyze who is upset at this particular issue and who is not. 

Just now, Nightmare Muffin said:

so just because running with your first whim works for you means it works for everyone? especially childish "I lost my friend, so I'll enslave an entire town and take away their cutie marks for however many years" reasoning ponies?

That counter is accurate and I do not dispute it's basis, however it supports my theory since it appears to work out well with Starlight too, does it not?

[Mesme Rize 15,686]

7 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

so just because running with your first whim works for you means it works for everyone? especially childish "I lost my friend, so I'll enslave an entire town and take away their cutie marks for however many years" reasoning ponies?

Now you're just shifting goalposts around. You take something negative and consider it absolute, instead of looking at the positive side of it.

The world is not black and white, you know?

[Will Guide 21,362]

1 minute ago, Mesme Rize said:

Now you're just shifting goalposts around. You take something negative and consider it absolute, instead of looking at the positive side of it.

The world is not black and white, you know?

I agree! I do my darnest to find a little good in an otherwise awful episode, like "Hard to Say Anything" or "Princess Spike"

[Castle Bleck 19,379]

26 minutes ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

I agree! I do my darnest to find a little good in an otherwise awful episode, like "Hard to Say Anything" or "Princess Spike"

 

Rainbow Falls, for example.

 

...

 

Eh, it had Griffons and Derpy?

[Will Guide 21,362]

18 minutes ago, A.V. said:

 

Rainbow Falls, for example.

 

...

 

Eh, it had Griffons and Derpy?

I personally thought Twilight's advice to Rainbow Dash, "choosing not to choose isn't really a decision", was very profound! See? Those words had significance!

[Ganondorf8 11,369]

I see Starlight relying on impulses to be her one weakness but at the same time it's also one of her biggest charms. While it does make her come across as not thinking about the consequences of her actions, she does go through an emotional ordeal as the result. While that may not be a good enough reason/excuse for everyone, I can at least appreciate what the writers are trying to do.

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

4 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

The newest episode only drives home the fact that she's being rewarded with a job well done, for using her magic in ways that she shouldn't

Because it was a job well done. The sisters were very pleased.. no one can help it if you don't like it... them's the breaks. It really does not matter how you feel about any of this, What matters is how the characters affected feel about it (as far as fictional characters can feel that is). They told her she made the right call, that trumps you and anyone else who wants to say otherwise. We can all sit around talking all day long about what should have happened here or there, but at the end of the day, it is what it is. She could have made a royal mistake, but she didn't... she made a gut choice by what sounded right to her.. and it turns out, it was the right call... the characters effected said so. That is canon no matter how you feel about it.

As for her impulse control... maybe? Impulsiveness is part of who she is.... maybe she can learn to slow down some and try to make more informed decisions... but then again, maybe RD can learn to not be so competitive, Pinkie can learn to not be so hyper, Rarity can learn to not be so overly dramatic.. etc... which is to say fat chance. I think Starlight is a pretty impulsive character, and where Twilight likes to plan things out to their fine details, Starlight is more spontaneous and just follows her emotions and her gut more. This can both work for her, and against her, just like it does for anyone else who lives this way.

 

[Marimo 555]

3 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

she wasn't terrible in Fluttershy Leans in

That's a backhanded compliment considering she was a background cameo.

[Thrond 3,263]

It worked out well here, but I'm troubled by the fact that this was done without the sisters' consent, and Starlight only got positive reinforcement for it. Compare to "Every Little Thing She Does," where both Twilight and the mane six express displeasure with her actions. I think she was punished for her misdeeds in that one, whereas in this one she's gonna be inspired to cast more spells on other ponies without their consent. It was the right move this time, but switching cutie marks appears to mean switching specialized magical skills (which is still confusing to me, admittedly), and that could have been serious. Starlight has no reason to be more careful next time, because nothing went wrong. She's probably gonna dismiss that nightmare as just being her worrying about nothing. If anyone else had done this I might have raised an eyebrow, but this doesn't seem that different from what Starlight did in earlier episodes where she was definitely in the wrong.