Tank you

[Snow 7,034]

Hard to believe its been a year already (roughly) And I kinda feel like its time for some shutouts~ The staff here in MLP Forums have to deal with a fair bit, A lot it going greatly unnoticed, spam bots, misplaced threads, NSFW posts, abuse from outraged users for some of the silliest reasons, a crazy forced update, being without sufficient technical staff, a bunch of other stuff and Lightwing. how do you guys manage?

I'd like to extend a thank you to the staff here, the past, current and future, even the admins with like 2 posts that are almost never on, love the commitment folks haha, keep up the good work, no really, you all do a great job in keeping things running smoothly, I salute you.

I did say mentions didn't I? and that's what leads me to part 2~

There has been a bit of controversy in the past regarding users expressing negative opinions of staff members and management methods, There are also suggestions floating around for things like events where staff and users can engage more, to give people an opportunity to express opinions of staff members and for the sake of shenanigans I'd like to suggest official staff member of the month Polls be held, (once every 2 months also might work better) (what is that? a fortmonth or something? like fortnig- but wait no, fortnight means 2 weeks.. so I guess 2 months might be a fortweek???)

Anyhow, the thinking behind it is users being able to vote for their favourite staff member(s), in the Sectional staff, Moderator and Administrator groups, for voters its as simple as vote for those you like or vote for their competition (multiple votes if you like more than one or all) If a staff member gets a considerably low number of votes it could reflect their activity and/or reputation and be a much more controlled and levelheaded suggestion for improvements to be made, First and foremost I want to start shedding a bit more light on those who have made great contributions to the forums and I see this as one of the best way to do it.

[Jeric 46,851]

7 hours ago, Snow said:

Anyhow, the thinking behind it is users being able to vote for their favourite staff member(s), in the Sectional staff, Moderator and Administrator groups, for voters its as simple as vote for those you like or vote for their competition (multiple votes if you like more than one or all) If a staff member gets a considerably low number of votes it could reflect their activity and/or reputation and be a much more controlled and levelheaded suggestion for improvements to be made, First and foremost I want to start shedding a bit more light on those who have made great contributions to the forums and I see this as one of the best way to do it.

A prior member here used to run an annual awards thread. That may be a more palatable way to do things. Staff should not be directly involved in that for two reasons ... one ... it's natural for someone to feel left out. There were always plenty of staffers who would be active behind the scenes ... but not as visible to the community as some others. @Yellow Diamond is one such person. I would place his overall contribution to this site above anything I personally did as a Mod or Admin. He was a stabilizing and calming influence no matter what happened, an intellectual who could guide a plan well, and more to that, he allowed ideas from other staffers to grow if they had some merit. A staffer like that is a leader and a rare breed. However, I would have no doubt that he would be overlooked in any poll, even though he wouldn't care. That's the type of person he was. Guy was twice the Admin I could ever have been. I merely borrowed the role, he was born in it. 

He isn't the only one. @Fresh Nonsense, @Fhaolan, @Feld0, @Lavo, @Batbrony, @LadyMercury most of RP, and more staffers than I can think of who are long gone all contribute(d) dramatically to this organizations' end goal of creating community experiences with most of their contributions being in areas of lower visibility. You may not see their work and dedication, but it's there. One of the best philosophies that MLPF and Poniverse had in general ... is that it allowed the talented shy person to find their niche and contribute. 

The second reason I hate that idea of a poll to rank staff is that it isn't data that points to anything actionable. Look, I've been known to be occasionally outspoken about the staff, but it always has something actionable in there that they can use to get better. Whether it is understanding personal boundaries, or  ways of communication, there is something specific I state and something I suggest to improve it. You can't get that from a popularity poll. 

So, as much as I love the idea of pushing the team to do more community engagement events, I am not sold on the idea of using a poll as evidence someone isn't doing enough. Its definitely a poor tool to create a call to action for them. Everyone has their own talents and traits. Not everyone has to be ... as Yellow Diamond once said about one Admin in the past ... the face of the franchise. 

 

[Snow 7,034]

Firstly, thank you for mentioning those people, all of their work must have been done far before my time here so unfortunately I have no Idea what they have done save for @Fhaolan who I regard as one of the two most helpful, vigilant and hard working staff members I know.
(emphasis on the "I know" really though if you are reading this you are awesome, thank you for all that you have done!)

12 hours ago, Jeric said:

it isn't data that points to anything actionable

Does it need to be? What I said before may have been a tad over the top and misleading, my apologies, for the most part those were empty words, I want this to be a fun thing naturally, all of the other stuff might just be something that becomes of it, no It wouldn't necessarily be advice on how to improve but instead an indicator that some change may have some merit, from the looks of it actually giving feedback and suggestions is in a bit of a grey area, you were a staff member for a considerable amount of time Jeric, you can easily get away with jumping in the back seat per se, you have experience and are well respected, You will also say things that will indeed be beneficial, but how many others can have the same said for them? sometimes criticism comes in the form of full caps and coarse language, Threads have been closed in the past and honestly, I'm not really interested in exploring possibilities in that area, I cant think of anything that could possibly end well.

Furthermore If I wanted a staff popularity poll I'd just create a Vote for Lightwing thread in the Forum Lounge, Everybody loves lightwing~ c:

There is a lot to be taken away from what you said and I lot I would still like to say but unfortunately work takes a lot out of me, I can hardly think straight at the moment, you raise some really good points, but remember, gathering data isn't my point, just a throw-in, and one that only applies when certain conditions are met, some that you even mentioned.
Making such an event common seems like a bad idea as well after some re-evaluation but I am certainly all for something of the sort happening at some point still~ I'll take another look at this when I'm more awake.

For now I'd just like to ask if you have any constructive criticism on the idea, how something like it might work in your mind, not just why you hate it? I'm open to explore other stuff as well but I want to examine this thoroughly before exploring other ideas.

[Jeric 46,851]

26 minutes ago, Snow said:

sometimes criticism comes in the form of full caps and coarse language,

 

30 minutes ago, Snow said:

Threads have been closed in the past and honestly, I'm not really interested in exploring possibilities in that area, I cant think of anything that could possibly end well

To my knowledge, the last big posts that were locked and hidden ... I was involved in. That was October 2016. Since then there has not been anything ... dramatic. I'll circle back to that in a sec. 

26 minutes ago, Snow said:

Does it need to be?

Definately. If a way to measure how the community feels isn't truly actionable, then you have a big waste of everyone's time.

26 minutes ago, Snow said:

 all of their work must have been done far before my time

Some of those people I mentioned were very aware of you even if you are not aware of them. That's the point. Some individuals are more comfortable with a public presence than others. The value of someone to this community should not be measured by whether they are an extravert. 

26 minutes ago, Snow said:

from the looks of it actually giving feedback and suggestions is in a bit of a grey area, you were a staff member for a considerable amount of time Jeric, you can easily get away with jumping in the back seat per se, you have experience and are well respected, You will also say things that will indeed be beneficial, but how many others can have the same said for them? 

Here is the secret about that. Many ideas I implemented here came from my interactions with others. They came from other staff, the community through Site Questions/Feedback, or direct conversations with the community. There is no real grey area. Feedback that is actionable comes down to time ... ability ... is it a good idea ... what are the downfalls? Either something is doable now, or it isn't. 

1 hour ago, Snow said:

For now I'd just like to ask if you have any constructive criticism on the idea

That is what I gave. The idea that airing words of caution absent a counter idea being somehow unconstructive is ... strange. There isn't a scale one has to balance. 

Honestly, from my perspective -- just being a community member at this stage -- it's been relatively peaceful and undramatic. Again, that is external awareness. There was always something brewing under the surface internally if you were on staff, but from general members view it's been quiet for a while. I mean the biggest complaints were over technology improvements not moderation and adminstration of this site. That's actually an impressive feat and one the current staff should be proud of. 

Basically, my best advice is for members to use an appropriate avenue and language for communication. If someone has an issue with a forum Moderator, then PM an Admin. If someone has an issue with a policy make a Feedback thread. Bonus points if you break the issue down explaining why a current policy is bad. Moderators and Administrators are not some cloaked cult or cabal that needs to be looked at with suspicion. We are all Bronies. We are all humans. When someone on staff says no to something, it is occasionally seen as a person indictment by the person being told no. That's not a staff issue, that's an interpersonal issue with the requester. Some community members can be too sensitive about that. It's not personal, and it gets old. 

Also ... it's important that anyone making a feedback thread or sending a PM understands that they need to check their agenda at the door. Most threads are generally reactions to a specific event created by a person who was impacted directly. For example, if someone was warned for posting NSFW art in Show Discussion, and then they proceed to create a topic suggesting NSFW be allowed, they aren't fooling anyone. No matter how valid your argument is ... you have to have both the staff and the community on your side for anything to progress positively. 

That isn't to say there isn't a time and a place for pointed language (see Han Solo gif), but self-interest under a undisclosed agenda is not going to win you support from everyone that you need to garner favor from. 

I mean, you see how quickly I got to the root of the topic, and while I'm intuitive, I'm not the only one. The truth is that holding staffers accountable has to come from staff. Not to sound like that guy, but in my day it was all about consensus building. Unless that has changed, if you don't have staff onboard, your idea won't work. 

I do have many ideas of how they can create a direct dialog with the community in different ways, but with most things there is an effort involved ... and I am loathe to drop any work at their feet when it's a fairly thankless job to begin with. 

 

In summary,

Feedback is awesome

You don't need to tell me pointed feedback is occasionally important. 

Building a consensus is awesome. 

If a staffer is breaking bad, tell an Admin. 

There isn't a real problem that needs to be addressed by creating a system of accountability. 

Direct communication can yield results provided you go in with the right approach and attitude. 

Careful at hiding an agenda when making a public post requesting a policy change. 

Being told no, isn't a reflection of one's character. 

[JonasDarkmane 19,785]

1 hour ago, Jeric said:

Some of those people I mentioned were very aware of you even if you are not aware of them. That's the point. Some individuals are more comfortable with a public presence than others. The value of someone to this community should not be measured by whether they are an extravert. 

I echo mostly this, but also a lot of other things that Jeric has already pointed out. 

As someone who previously worked with staff, to be more specific, forums staff, I can already think of quite a few individuals who would go mostly under the radar of most people here on the forums who have contributed enormously towards the management of this site. Fact is, not everybody is much of a public figure as some others are. Some are just more quiet or just more focused on the aspect of working with their role as a staff member (in other words, the are multiple explanations as to why some are not as public as others).

 

Creating a vote for a favorite staff member would turn into a pure popularity contest. There is no avoiding that. 

This is why I disagree with this

On 10/9/2017 at 10:54 AM, Snow said:

events where staff and users can engage more, to give people an opportunity to express opinions of staff members and for the sake of shenanigans I'd like to suggest official staff member of the month Polls be held

 

On 10/9/2017 at 10:54 AM, Snow said:

If a staff member gets a considerably low number of votes it could reflect their activity and/or reputation and be a much more controlled and levelheaded suggestion for improvements to be made

I do not think that such a poll would help staffers engage more with people, but rather it would have the opposite effect :/ 
Some people just don't like to be in the spotlight, and them being thrust in there and then judged by people who do not know them at all nor are aware of their actions and contributions... I just don't see anything positive coming out of that.

 

And if they would receive low number of votes, I don't think it should at all be reflective of their activity and/or reputation at all nor would it be an indication that an improvement is needed. Some people do not care for having a reputation. 

 

 

To summarize, I think it would be a bad idea to have a popularity contest. 

[Yellow Diamond 7,569]

On 10/9/2017 at 6:54 AM, Snow said:

Anyhow, the thinking behind it is users being able to vote for their favourite staff member(s), in the Sectional staff, Moderator and Administrator groups, for voters its as simple as vote for those you like or vote for their competition (multiple votes if you like more than one or all) If a staff member gets a considerably low number of votes it could reflect their activity and/or reputation and be a much more controlled and levelheaded suggestion for improvements to be made, First and foremost I want to start shedding a bit more light on those who have made great contributions to the forums and I see this as one of the best way to do it.

Echoing what has already been said by Jonas and Jeric, I don't see the benefit of holding a popularity/reputation poll. Some of the best staff members I worked with were publicly quiet or spoke up only on occasion; the most "popular" staff members tend to be those who are gregarious. Now, I am not saying that effectiveness diminishes with popularity -- SCS, Chaotic Discord, and Jeric were all damn fine staff members who were also quite popular -- but popularity cannot even begin to measure their contributions and that of other mods, admins, and sectionals.

Since being a staff member is anything but a competition, pitting staffers against each other in order to increase their reputation is counterproductive. Speaking from experience, I can tell you it would make just about everyone on staff feel incredibly uneasy. I was far more complimented when I received a PM from someone thanking me for my work. I bet other staffers feel or have felt the same way.

All in all, online polls tend to be crap, unless they're just for fun. For instance, MCM polls for milestone goals are great -- but I wouldn't judge a staffer's worth based on who was selected to sing "Winter Wrap Up".

[Jeric 46,851]

15 minutes ago, Yellow Diamond said:

the most "popular" staff members tend to be those who are gregarious.

 

16 minutes ago, Yellow Diamond said:

gregarious

Say it with me ... 

Ayyyyyyyyyyyy

[Snow 7,034]

Oh dear, there was so much I failed to consider on this one, She keeled over and sank fast, It seemed like a good idea at the time but, well, I'll cross it off the list, you all make pretty irrefutable arguments, I was basing the idea more so of how much success I have seen things like polls do in events like MCM but I can see not everything would apply to that, I still just wish there were something more to do, the events held here have been so fun, will there be a MCM this year?

[Yellow Diamond 7,569]

2 hours ago, Snow said:

I still just wish there were something more to do, the events held here have been so fun, will there be a MCM this year?

No worries! As for MCM, I don't know what plans the staff has for this year. I definitely hope they run it, though.