What Are Your Thoughts on Moondancer?

[Essence 24]

So, what are your thoughts on Moondancer (both her "current self" and her former antisocial self)? Do you think she should be utilized more in the series, or no? Do you like her, or no?

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,160]

@appleshake1234

As this is dealing with a character it has been moved to Show Discussion.

Thanks.

[Attack of the Pwns 894]

I think it would be great to see Moondancer again! However, I think that she should only be an occasional cameo. Use her sparingly, so that the fandom can continue to develop her via headcanon. Give her enough development to be relatable, but not so much as to leave us with no room for speculation.

She’s a cutie, though, so I’m definetly not going to complain if she shows up in the show more often. She definetly needs to be in at least another episode or two.

[Sparklefan1234 168,525]

I LOVE Amending Fences & Moon Dancer is an awesome character that I would really like to

see return along with Minuette, Lemon Hearts, Twinkleshine & Lyra Heartstrings in a future episode.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Sparklefan1234

[Thrond 3,262]

I know she's very popular, but I was never able to understand why she expected Twilight to come to her party, so I could never really sympathize with her. Another brief secondary role would probably be fine, though. 

[KH7672 1,604]

Thoughts: I don't like her (dislike her more than Spoiled Rich but less than Tirek). Her story tries to be as sympathetic as possible painting everyone else in the wrong against her when...hello, you did wrong too! Did you learn nothing from this experience? It's just supposed to be Twilight who did bad and must fix her mistakes? Sorry but I just can't feel for her.

However, please by all means bring her back. I'd love to feel for her like everyone else has but the show has yet to give me a reason to. (Also if the show does bring her back, bring along Minuette, Twinkleshine, and Lemon Hearts too; especially Minuette, she's so adorable and bubbly)

[Dark Qiviut 22,368]

2 hours ago, Essence said:

So, what are your thoughts on Moondancer (both her "current self" and her former antisocial self)?

1 hour ago, AlexanderThrond said:

but I was never able to understand why she expected Twilight to come to her party, so I could never really sympathize with her.

19 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

Thoughts: I don't like her (dislike her more than Spoiled Rich but less than Tirek). Her story tries to be as sympathetic as possible painting everyone else in the wrong against her when...hello, you did wrong too! Did you learn nothing from this experience? It's just supposed to be Twilight who did bad and must fix her mistakes? Sorry but I just can't feel for her.

At the time of airing, the most realistic character of the series, and remains so. Her struggles, tragedy, and behavior are all real. She's an introvert, yet opened herself up with the hope of Twilight coming, because Twinkle, LH, and Minny convinced her to invite her after a lot of prodding. It took their effort to make MD believe she had both self-worth and someone to possibly connect to on a level below the surface. Instead, Twilight blew off their invitation under the "studying" excuse and left without saying goodbye. To her, her efforts — both externally and internally — were all for naught. She felt like Minny, LH, and Twinkle used her, and Twilight didn't give her effort much forethought. Her devolution into a recluse happened for a reason.

Her conflict is serious, because her dive into reclusion is a very delicate one that many folks can relate to. Unlike the other three, she's a lot more sensitive to what went on, and the trauma she experienced at the party (along with the timing of it), combined with how the others willfully accepted TS's heartfelt apology for taking them for granted long ago, made her rant very crushing to watch.

2 hours ago, Essence said:

Do you think she should be utilized more in the series, or no? Do you like her, or no?

Even though Twilight and MD patched it up, MD still struggled. She returned Twilight's embrace reluctantly, and may still feel a level of pain somewhere. At the end, she definitely developed and reunited with Minny, Lemon, and Twinkle, and I'd love to see her progress. I love her for the reasons already stated.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Dark Qiviut

[Midnight Blaze 98 1,138]

I really like Moondancer. She’s very relatable and I’d love to see her return!

[CypherHoof 26,482]

2 hours ago, Midnight Blaze 98 said:

I really like Moondancer. She’s very relatable and I’d love to see her return!

She is too Emo, but then, the only difference between her and Starlight is that MD locked herself away from the world (presumably to write bad, unpublished poetry about how sad she was) rather than raging out and creating a no-cutie-mark distopia.

But seriously? She dumped several ponies that went to her party to mope on the outskirts of Canterlot because one pony, well known for being a bad friend, didn't turn up because she was off saving Equestria from nightmare moon?

Her sister should have slapped her rump for her and told her "Wise up filly! Stop moping over one purple pony who doesn't give a haycake for anyone else and treat your REAL friends right".

[Thrond 3,262]

9 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

because Twinkle, LH, and Minny convinced her to invite her after a lot of prodding.

That's not stated clearly in the episode, and doesn't answer why Moondancer shouldn't have recognized Twilight's asocial personality. Were they friends? Did she have any justifiable reason to expect Twilight to come? If either of those are true, "Amending Fences" never clarifies them. 

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

5 hours ago, CypherHoof said:

She is too Emo, but then, the only difference between her and Starlight is that MD locked herself away from the world (presumably to write bad, unpublished poetry about how sad she was) rather than raging out and creating a no-cutie-mark distopia.

But seriously? She dumped several ponies that went to her party to mope on the outskirts of Canterlot because one pony, well known for being a bad friend, didn't turn up because she was off saving Equestria from nightmare moon?

Her sister should have slapped her rump for her and told her "Wise up filly! Stop moping over one purple pony who doesn't give a haycake for anyone else and treat your REAL friends right".

I mean... there’s a lot more differences between Starlight and Moondancer than that. Starlight was abandoned as a child, maybe five or six years old, Moondancer was a full grown adult. Starlight spent her entire formative years alone, while Moondancer was, again, an adult and only lived like that for a couple years. Moondancer was already pretty clearly introverted, while Starlight seems more of an extrovert on the level of Rarity.

I also think you’re being horribly unfair to Moondancer. It wasn’t, “I’m sad because my friend left me,” it’s “I’m sad because my friend left me, because I’m not worth being friends with.”

She was both rejected and abandoned by the same person she looked up to on the same day. It crushed her sense of self worth, and she withdrew from other people so she wouldn’t have to feel that pain again.

11 hours ago, Essence said:

So, what are your thoughts on Moondancer (both her "current self" and her former antisocial self)? Do you think she should be utilized more in the series, or no? Do you like her, or no?

Moondancer was a very clear foil, not just for Twilight, but for Starlight as well. I’ve always believed that the similarities between the two characters is intentional. If you want to see what Starlight went through as a child, look at Moondancer. Id like to see her character grow beyond that though and see her become her own character, so yeah, bring back Moondancer!

[BastementSparkle 20,321]

14 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

That's not stated clearly in the episode, and doesn't answer why Moondancer shouldn't have recognized Twilight's asocial personality. Were they friends? Did she have any justifiable reason to expect Twilight to come? If either of those are true, "Amending Fences" never clarifies them. 

Moondancer certainly seems to have thought of Twilight as a friend, she gave Twilight a book with a note thanking her for introducing Moondancer to the classics as a gift, she expected Twilight to come to the party and was distraught when she didn't. Twilight was oblivious and seems to have only been friends with Moondancer and the others in the very loosest term, as in she just sat around them while she studied for whatever reason. She's the most similar pony in that group to Moondancer, she probably latched onto Twilight for that reason. When Twilight didn't show up to the party, it hurt her a lot. Maybe on some level she expected it, but that doesn't make it any less hurtful to her. This was to her, definitive proof Twilight didn't value her as a friend at all, and for a pony with very little to no self-esteem? That must have been devastating.

[KH7672 1,604]

Well I can tell it is very unpopular to dislike Moondancer, considering how relatable she is to everyone. I guess that's where I differ from most fans. I rarely like characters because because of relatability (heck Diamond Tiara's one of my favorite characters because of how far and unrelatable they took her bullying, just made her more entertaining for me)

It's just how I approach the show when it comes to characters. Entertainment first for me, and Moondancer was not and so many of her actions made it harder and harder to enjoy her presense. Still this is ME, my thoughts, which is what the topic asked. If the topic asked whether or not Moondancer is a good character or not I wouldn't say anything because I'd have nothing to add besides my bias which I'm not going to try and force on anyone. Hence why I wish for a reason to like her because I totally understand why others do, I just don't, not yet at least.

That said however there was one thing I do have to expand on

2 hours ago, ShootingStar159 said:

I also think you’re being horribly unfair to Moondancer. It wasn’t, “I’m sad because my friend left me,” it’s “I’m sad because my friend left me, because I’m not worth being friends with.”

She was both rejected and abandoned by the same person she looked up to on the same day. It crushed her sense of self worth, and she withdrew from other people so she wouldn’t have to feel that pain again.

While I know this wasn't directed at me, it does bring up an issue with the characterization in the episode. There's a difference to looking up to and idolizing to an extent just like there's a difference to being sensitive and short-sighted. This is similar to the feelings I've had for Sunset feeling alone when the HuMane 5 are so welcoming. If you want me to see that no friendship would be worth her time in her mind, don't show me how welcoming and legitimate friends the other three are to her trying to still invite her to things, being the reason she decides to throw a party. If she can't see how good of friends those three were to her before, then she's hurting herself and should feel some of the blame too. I'm glad of that final scene with her opening up to them I just wish it could be more.

[Hierok 11,831]

She really needs to make another appearence with the other three, especially Minuette. Also, hopefully she will look slightly different. A bit girlier. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by A Honorable Mentioned Hierok

[cmarston1 5,959]

I generally like her character and would like to see her appear again in the series.

She along with Sunset Shimmer, and Tempest Storm are characters that I look at and see better ways in which Starlight Glimmer's character could have been handled.

Edited November 5, 2017 by cmarston1

[Cheerilee 26,577]

I think she is a cute one. I like her character and I would like to see more of her.

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

45 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

That said however there was one thing I do have to expand on

While I know this wasn't directed at me, it does bring up an issue with the characterization in the episode. There's a difference to looking up to and idolizing to an extent just like there's a difference to being sensitive and short-sighted. This is similar to the feelings I've had for Sunset feeling alone when the HuMane 5 are so welcoming. If you want me to see that no friendship would be worth her time in her mind, don't show me how welcoming and legitimate friends the other three are to her trying to still invite her to things, being the reason she decides to throw a party. If she can't see how good of friends those three were to her before, then she's hurting herself and should feel some of the blame too. I'm glad of that final scene with her opening up to them I just wish it could be more.

So, just to start off, I think it’s important to be clear that we agree: what Moondancer did was dumb, and it ended up hurting her more in the long run.

But where you see an “issue with the characterization”, I see a realistic character. Go ask anyone, and I’m sure they’ll admit to making some dumb decisions when they were hurt, scared, angry, etc. Making dumb decisions is just part of life, and often we are the greatest source of our own problems. 

Moondancer lost sight of what was important, and ignored her other friends because the one friend she wanted most ignored her. If you don’t like Moondancer, well, okay. Everyone is entitled to there’s opinion. But it isn’t fair to Moondancer to call her a bad character because she made a mistake.

[Jeric 46,848]

I will always remember Moondancer thanks to a conversation I had with a staffer who suggested that she didn't like her because of her "weak ass eyebrow game."

The character is symbolically, thematically, and narratively phenomenal. This is one of the best episodes in the series, and the nuanced interpretations available of Moondancer and Twilight are the reason why. 

[Le Trotteur Sauvage 13,050]

I like her, even if she sound and looks so cold. I think we should see her more, and learn more about her !

[KH7672 1,604]

1 hour ago, ShootingStar159 said:

So, just to start off, I think it’s important to be clear that we agree: what Moondancer did was dumb, and it ended up hurting her more in the long run.

But where you see an “issue with the characterization”, I see a realistic character. Go ask anyone, and I’m sure they’ll admit to making some dumb decisions when they were hurt, scared, angry, etc. Making dumb decisions is just part of life, and often we are the greatest source of our own problems. 

Moondancer lost sight of what was important, and ignored her other friends because the one friend she wanted most ignored her. If you don’t like Moondancer, well, okay. Everyone is entitled to there’s opinion. But it isn’t fair to Moondancer to call her a bad character because she made a mistake.

Jeez I am just failing at giving a clear statement today.

I'll answer that conclusion with my previous statement.

2 hours ago, KH7672 said:

If the topic asked whether or not Moondancer is a good character or not I wouldn't say anything because I'd have nothing to add besides my bias which I'm not going to try and force on anyone. Hence why I wish for a reason to like her because I totally understand why others do, I just don't, not yet at least.

In other words I know I have no ground to comment on Moondancer's character. When I said characterization I said it more for my own approach to characterization, the exaggerated kind I've seen from the show. Like you said her situation is easily applicable to anyone and even as serious as it is it's not what I enjoy. Still I should have been more clear with that thought. Thanks for pointing out my mistake in word choice, I should just stop now as I have nothing more to add to this. Enjoy your character, and here's to hopefully seeing more of her!

[Thrond 3,262]

5 hours ago, BasementSparkle said:

Moondancer certainly seems to have thought of Twilight as a friend, she gave Twilight a book with a note thanking her for introducing Moondancer to the classics as a gift, she expected Twilight to come to the party and was distraught when she didn't. Twilight was oblivious and seems to have only been friends with Moondancer and the others in the very loosest term, as in she just sat around them while she studied for whatever reason. She's the most similar pony in that group to Moondancer, she probably latched onto Twilight for that reason. When Twilight didn't show up to the party, it hurt her a lot. Maybe on some level she expected it, but that doesn't make it any less hurtful to her. This was to her, definitive proof Twilight didn't value her as a friend at all, and for a pony with very little to no self-esteem? That must have been devastating.

Ultimately I'm not entirely sure that "latching onto Twilight being similar" is an understandable reason to consider Twilight a friend. Did they spend a lot of time together, or were they just study partners by default? I don't consider those the same thing. As for "definitive proof Twilight didn't value her as a friend" - did she ever think Twilight did? If so, why? 

I missed that book in prior viewings, but how did Twilight "introduce Moondancer to the classics"? What did their relationship look like? Did Twilight bring them up in passing, or did they actually have conversations? If it's the latter, why would Twilight just neglect her and forget about her? Why did Moondancer expect Twilight to come to the party? Did Twilight show any indication in the past that she would attend a party? Was she known for any sort of social activity?

Because those questions are unanswered, I struggle to understand why Moondancer perceived anything in hers and Twilight's relationship, which makes it hard for me to understand why the others' friendship wasn't enough, which in turn makes it hard for me to sympathize with her. 

[EightBit 284]

I quite like her. I wouldn't mind seeing her again.

[BastementSparkle 20,321]

14 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Ultimately I'm not entirely sure that "latching onto Twilight being similar" is an understandable reason to consider Twilight a friend. Did they spend a lot of time together, or were they just study partners by default? I don't consider those the same thing. As for "definitive proof Twilight didn't value her as a friend" - did she ever think Twilight did? If so, why? 

I missed that book in prior viewings, but how did Twilight "introduce Moondancer to the classics"? What did their relationship look like? Did Twilight bring them up in passing, or did they actually have conversations? If it's the latter, why would Twilight just neglect her and forget about her? Why did Moondancer expect Twilight to come to the party? Did Twilight show any indication in the past that she would attend a party? Was she known for any sort of social activity?

Because those questions are unanswered, I struggle to understand why Moondancer perceived anything in hers and Twilight's relationship, which makes it hard for me to understand why the others' friendship wasn't enough, which in turn makes it hard for me to sympathize with her. 

Considering Lemon Hearts, Twinkle Shine, and Minuette all also considered Twilight a friend, I'd say Twilight probably spent a decent amount of time with them, even if most of that was with her nose buried in a book, or perhaps just making polite small talk to pass the time. To be fair here, most of those questions are unanswered, so I'll give you that.

 One thing I've noticed though, is that you seem to view Moondancer's situation rather logically, questioning why she would view Twilight as a friend, or why the others weren't enough, etc. During her breakdown at the apology party, Moondancer points towards the trio and says "Those three finally convinced me I had value! That other ponies might like me, and want to be my friend!". Moondancer seems to have very low self-esteem, I don't know if you've ever dealt with that, but I have and I can tell you it's often not logical at all, it's often the complete opposite of logical. Moondancer wanted Twilight to be at that party, it was the first one she'd ever thrown, and she either considered Twilight a friend, or just really wanted and hoped for a friendship with Twilight.

But Twilight didn't show up, the other three did, but not Twilight. Moondancer as she put it was humiliated, she felt like she didn't matter. If Twilight truly didn't value as a friend, even enough to just show up to the party, who says the other three really valued her at all? Maybe they just showed up because they had nothing better to do, maybe they just wanted to see how pathetic she was, who's to say they wouldn't quit showing up too at one point? Maybe they were just being nice because they're good ponies, even though they can see how pathetic and worthless she is...That's how low self-esteem feels, it blocks out logic, you view yourself as being worthless, evidence to the contrary (Like 3 good friends showing up to your party) is ignored for the evidence that supports it (That one friend you really, really wanted to show up didn't).

Moondancer's reaction, ignoring her other friends and closing herself off seems ridiculous from the outside, and it is ridiculous. More mentally healthy ponies like the other 3 might think it stings a bit that a friend, even if she wasn't the closest friend ever, just left them without so much as a goodbye, but they can shrug it off and go on with their lives. Somebody like Moondancer though? Even seemingly little things can really hurt, especially when they're starting to try and put themselves out there. A lot of people can empathize with Moondancer because of this

[Thrond 3,262]

10 hours ago, BasementSparkle said:

 One thing I've noticed though, is that you seem to view Moondancer's situation rather logically, questioning why she would view Twilight as a friend, or why the others weren't enough, etc. During her breakdown at the apology party, Moondancer points towards the trio and says "Those three finally convinced me I had value! That other ponies might like me, and want to be my friend!". Moondancer seems to have very low self-esteem, I don't know if you've ever dealt with that, but I have and I can tell you it's often not logical at all, it's often the complete opposite of logical. Moondancer wanted Twilight to be at that party, it was the first one she'd ever thrown, and she either considered Twilight a friend, or just really wanted and hoped for a friendship with Twilight.

But Twilight didn't show up, the other three did, but not Twilight. Moondancer as she put it was humiliated, she felt like she didn't matter. If Twilight truly didn't value as a friend, even enough to just show up to the party, who says the other three really valued her at all? Maybe they just showed up because they had nothing better to do, maybe they just wanted to see how pathetic she was, who's to say they wouldn't quit showing up too at one point? Maybe they were just being nice because they're good ponies, even though they can see how pathetic and worthless she is...That's how low self-esteem feels, it blocks out logic, you view yourself as being worthless, evidence to the contrary (Like 3 good friends showing up to your party) is ignored for the evidence that supports it (That one friend you really, really wanted to show up didn't).

Moondancer's reaction, ignoring her other friends and closing herself off seems ridiculous from the outside, and it is ridiculous. More mentally healthy ponies like the other 3 might think it stings a bit that a friend, even if she wasn't the closest friend ever, just left them without so much as a goodbye, but they can shrug it off and go on with their lives. Somebody like Moondancer though? Even seemingly little things can really hurt, especially when they're starting to try and put themselves out there. A lot of people can empathize with Moondancer because of this

I don't feel like the episode really lets me into Moondancer's headspace. She sort of dumps a lot of emotional baggage on the viewer at the very end, and so much I got the episode occurs outside of her head that I never got a sense for the irrational fears you appear to project onto her. (not that there's anything wrong with such projection.) I also feel the episode undercuts that irrationality by suggesting she's entirely correct to blame Twilight. I can see how she's supposed to reflect some sort of irrational fears, but I don't feel they're clarified very well. 

[Adamgreen 1,129]

She is one of my favorite ponies because of how much people can relate to her with the broken bonds of their old friends. What makes her great was how broken she was and a good way to show how Twilight can be if she never go to Ponyville to find some new friends.

Plus, she's really cool with her glasses on XD