Shouldn't Bow Hot Hoof have stopped all the gay stereotyping with Rainbow Dash?

[Ruddboy Olaf 10,628]

Rainbow hair is a go-to when looking for LGBT characters cause that's the appearance of the gay/lesbian flag. Combine that with her unladylike personality and the fact that all her close friends are female and you have the template of a lesbian character.

But I don't see her as lesbian or straight. I see her as bi, since she's shown interest in both genders.

 

Quote

Well, what about her dad? Bow Hot Hoof has the same colored hair that she does, and he's not chasing after stallions behind his wife's back, is he? The fact he got married and had a daughter at all should tell you the colors mean nothing. So why is it even a discussion still?

I haven't seen that episode, yet. So, I can't comment on whether or not I believe Bow Hot Hoof is a coltcuddler.

But I can say that a gay man may marry a woman for many different reasons.

1. Fear of being ridiculed or threatened

2. To conform to the norm

3. They're confused at first

4. As a cover

Edited February 4, 2018 by Lonic: Professor Levi

[Gestum 2,493]

 

1 hour ago, Lonic: Professor Levi said:

Combine that with her unladylike personality and the fact that all her friends are female and you have the template of a lesbian character.

Isn't she friends with the wonderbolts? Several of whom are male. She's also friends with Spike.

A straight girl can be as unladylike as humanly possible and still be straight. Your personality doesn't determine who you want to fuck.

[Ruddboy Olaf 10,628]

3 hours ago, Gestum said:

Isn't she friends with the wonderbolts? Several of whom are male. She's also friends with Spike.

My mistake, I was talking about her close friends. Spike is a male, but he's also like a child.
 

 

3 hours ago, Gestum said:

A straight girl can be as unladylike as humanly possible and still be straight. Your personality doesn't determine who you want to fuck.

I didn't say it does. I'm just saying that Dashie's boyish traits could be used by other people to label her as lesbian. Cause a tomboy could be stereotyped as a lesbian even if they're not.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Lonic: Professor Levi said:

I see her as bi, since she's shown interest in both genders.

When? I have not seen anything pointing to either direction.

 

[Jeric 46,851]

Like any character out there, Rainbow Dash is open to individual audience projection. Basically, if you see her as lesbian, it's not her ... it's you. Im not saying there is anything inherently wrong with it, but when someone says she isn't gay, don't take it as a personal affront. Besides, RD ... she's absolutely Irish. Because rainbows.

See how that works? 

[BastementSparkle 20,326]

In show canon, there is very little to no evidence to show what sexuality Rainbow might be. There's nothing concrete at all to confirm she has a crush on anypony. Frankly, in the show it's just not very important, she could be anything but unless that's a topic they want to discuss for some reason, we'll likely never have anything confirmed.

 So, in that sense, it's fine to go with whatever headcanon you want. Straight, Gay, Bi, Asexual...Whatever, that's all fine. Just remember nothing is confirmed in the show. Now, I don't see this very often anymore, but if someone really thinks that RD must be a lesbian just because of her Rainbow colors or her tomboyish personality...That's silly, think of her as lesbian if you want, but if you assume it must be true only because of blatant stereotypes...Yeah, that's a little silly. That's just her personality and it doesn't make her any more likely to be gay than say, Pinkie or Shy or whoever else.

[Abstract 832]

48 minutes ago, Jeric said:

Like any character out there, Rainbow Dash is open to individual audience projection. Basically, if you see her as lesbian, it's not her ... it's you. Im not saying there is anything inherently wrong with it, but when someone says she isn't gay, don't take it as a personal affront. Besides, RD ... she's absolutely Irish. Because rainbows.

See how that works? 

See, I've never believed in this "projection" stuff - I mean, in some cases I'm sure there's something of substance behind it, but it seems like most people who believe in it seem to think that everyone is incapable of judging character traits of their own objective merit without "projecting" themselves onto the character, and that simply isn't true; I'm straight, and I think RD may, or may not, be gay or bisexual. It would be interesting if she was, but beyond that, just because I see her as possibly being LBGT, that says absolutely nothing about me.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

14 hours ago, Wylyth said:

Ok, heres something to add to the discussion, the reason we need more LGBTQIA+ characters (OPENLY LGBTQIA+ characters) is so more people will be more considerate in the real world. 

No. No no no hell no. We don't need our slice of life/adventure kids show to start pushing "okay2gay" narrative on people, It won't make anyone more considerate. It will be incredibly forced if it is done any other way besides what we are getting from Lyrabon, and before you say "oh but straight relationships are allowed" I don't want any mane characters at all to get romantically involved with anyone. I don't mind the couples we have gotten though. If they introduce new side characters who are gay without the show drawing attention to it, I will consider that fantastic writing on the shows part, but it isn't something we NEED. At all.

14 hours ago, Wylyth said:

Actually, I feel it has lots to do with the discussion. Man isn't the defauly, Heterosexuality isn't the default. Cisgender isn't the default. This is the reason we need more representation. It doesn't even need to be sexual. Just so a married gay couple, I mean, we see married straight couples in MLP (Cadence and Shining Armor, for one), so you could still show gay representation  without being sexual. And thats the problem, no one assumes a straight couple is being sexual, but assume gay couples are.

Spoiler

Lyra and Bon bon are together in a Hearts and Hooves day episode in season 8. You win. gratz.

S8 spoiler above.
Key Sharkz "misgendering" you don't have anything to do with the discussion.

I also disagree with your last comment, people don't dislike gay couples in shows because they assume they are sexual (in fact for Shining Cadance they do because they literally have had sex to make a child) in fact, most people don't mind seeing gay or bi couples in shows, the problem is more often than not the show won't treat them like a natural element, the show has to focus on that for at least a small amount of time, which in my opinion, leads to forced, preachy writing. Which is why I adore Lyrabon, it is very subtle. Star vs the Forces of Evil did this well as well, you can see two men kissing in an episode and no one cared, because the focus of the episode wasn't about them or how gay they are.

I can say with certainty if we get an episode about RD or any character being gay and the episode is about them being gay, it will automatically be shifted to my bottom 10 of the series, just like how Simple Ways is low on my list because of it's forced relationship drama.

[Jeric 46,851]

11 minutes ago, Abstract said:

See, I've never believed in this "projection" stuff - I mean, in some cases I'm sure there's something of substance behind it, but it seems like most people who believe in it seem to think that everyone is incapable of judging character traits of their own objective merit without "projecting" themselves onto the character, and that simply isn't true; I'm straight, and I think RD may, or may not, be gay or bisexual. It would be interesting if she was, but beyond that, just because I see her as possibly being LBGT, that says absolutely nothing about me.

I wasn't referring to psychological projection theory. That's focused on applying your own negative qualities into others. I'm speaking strictly of how we imbue personal traits we find favorable  in characters that assists in forming a personal connection. This does not override agency, reasoning, or executive function. 

And yes, wanting Dash to be LGBT does indeed say something about a person, however, what that says is not necessarily what someone's personal sexual orientation is. 

[AccountNoLongerUsed 741]

Whats wrong with "its okay to be gay and/ or transgender" narratives? I mean, that be a good moral for a moral based show like MLP.

Just because I want a show to do more than just a "oh, hey look, some random Background characters of the same gender are on a date" representation of LGBTQIA+ people does not mean I want a big deal to be done about it. like, it doesn't even have to be one of the Mane 6, it could be a major character. Like (and this is just an example) perhaps Big Mac is actually a closeted trans woman, and thats why he seemed more "open" as Orchard Blossom. They don't have to make a big deal about it, just a single episode where the CMC help Mac/ OB come to terms with her gender identity. 

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

5 hours ago, Lonic: Professor Levi said:

Rainbow hair is a go-to when looking for LGBT characters cause that's the appearance of the gay/lesbian flag. Combine that with her unladylike personality and the fact that all her close friends are female and you have the template of a lesbian character.

But I don't see her as lesbian or straight. I see her as bi, since she's shown interest in both genders.

 

I haven't seen that episode, yet. So, I can't comment on whether or not I believe Bow Hot Hoof is a coltcuddler.

But I can say that a gay man may marry a woman for many different reasons.

1. Fear of being ridiculed or threatened

2. To conform to the norm

3. They're confused at first

4. As a cover

This is exactly why I detest that flag. I don't care if it has a decades-long history behind it. I don't care if it's supposed to represent something positive. Rainbows are a part of nature. No group should try to appropriate them. Because when someone outside of that group wants to carry that same design element for any number of reasons, they're automatically assumed to be associated. The consequences to that can be dangerous.

I'm saying this as a practicing artist who has a deep appreciation for the full spectrum of color. What in the world does color have to do with sexual orientation or gender identity? Absolutely nothing.



It frustrates me that I can't wear something as beautiful as these without the potential of being labeled as gay and ostracized for it. If Rainbow Dash was a real person/pony living in our world, and if she was straight, she'd be fucking miserable.


As for Bow Hot Hoof, when I watched Parental Glidance, I was totally convinced he's happy with where he is in life. I never got this feeling that he was emotionally disconnected from his wife or that he was living a lie.

Edited February 4, 2018 by KillerKingBakudan

[RDDash 19,172]

Those T-shirts are nice, I think. fashion isn't my strong suit

[Steve Piranha 29,421]

3 hours ago, KillerKingBakudan said:

This is exactly why I detest that flag. I don't care if it has a decades-long history behind it. I don't care if it's supposed to represent something positive. Rainbows are a part of nature. No group should try to appropriate them. Because when someone outside of that group wants to carry that same design element for any number of reasons, they're automatically assumed to be associated. The consequences to that can be dangerous.

 

Pff, that's just the LGBT, no other group has appropriated of any other symbols  . Oh, hi swastika, you doin' cool? Oh, ok  

 

3 hours ago, Wylyth said:

Whats wrong with "its okay to be gay and/ or transgender" narratives? I mean, that be a good moral for a moral based show like MLP.

Yeah, because that's the show's biggest priority, and it's perfect for recycl.... I mean, reintroducing a lesson, but with LGBT  

3 hours ago, KillerKingBakudan said:

 

I'm saying this as a practicing artist who has a deep appreciation for the full spectrum of color. What in the world does color have to do with sexual orientation or gender identity? Absolutely nothing.



It frustrates me that I can't wear something as beautiful as these without the potential of being labeled as gay and ostracized for it. If Rainbow Dash was a real person/pony living in our world, and if she was straight, she'd be fucking miserable.

Yeah, I like rainbows, and I like to add them in something mine, and I find them beautiful as well. But guess what, I can't  . RAINBOWS ARE SOME OF MY FAVORITE THINGS FOR GOD'S SAKE  .

Well, about Dashie, yeah, I don't think she'll take it well if she find out people expects her to be lesbian for that. Let's not get started if she's straight, but I don't think things will be better if she's lesbian either. Seriously, if I where a lesbian Dashie, I'd take offense if people just assume I'm lesbian just because I'm a rainbow-maned tomboy  . I've read an EG fic where Dashie has this problem. She's assumed she's lesbian, and quite understandably, is not taking it well. Issue gets so far that she starts to doubt her own sexuality (is not helped that she has a leg fetish and Celly has nice ones  ). Still, that comes to an end when she and Flashy get intimate (makes sense in-story), and decides she's straight. Man, this portrayal of her being lesbian just for that is so widespread that there's a group for stories of her being straight  

3 hours ago, KillerKingBakudan said:

As for Bow Hot Hoof, when I watched Parental Glidance, I was totally convinced he's happy with where he is in life. I never got this feeling that he was emotionally disconnected from his wife or that he was living a lie.

Yeah, that'd be the first thing I'd notice instead of something minimal like...... he's Dashie's dad  ? Really, Dashie's lesbian assumption is stupid for the colors and personality, otherwise gets a pass for ambiguity, but Hot Hoof's case is SJW-levels of ridiculous  . Seriously, where did that theory come from, a lootbox? 

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

4 hours ago, Wylyth said:

Whats wrong with "its okay to be gay and/ or transgender" narratives? I mean, that be a good moral for a moral based show like MLP.

Just because I want a show to do more than just a "oh, hey look, some random Background characters of the same gender are on a date" representation of LGBTQIA+ people does not mean I want a big deal to be done about it. like, it doesn't even have to be one of the Mane 6, it could be a major character. Like (and this is just an example) perhaps Big Mac is actually a closeted trans woman, and thats why he seemed more "open" as Orchard Blossom. They don't have to make a big deal about it, just a single episode where the CMC help Mac/ OB come to terms with her gender identity. 

Except you do want the show to make a big deal out of it. You desperately want that. I don't want gender politics or sexual orientation to be a factor in the show, like I said, doing it subtly is clever, making it a central plot point will feel preachy and forced, it is not know job to teach kids about being okay to be gay, it is about basic life lessons.

 

Holy shit that big Mac comment. Wtf... Are you actually serious? How the he'll is that not a big deal.

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

On 2018-02-03 at 11:44 PM, Key Sharkz said:

You're looking to confirm something in a show that literally has very little relevance to the show which would serve no purpose for the narrative at all.

The fact that people feel as if one should only include LBGT+ people if they "add to narrative" has always bugged me a bit. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Hasbro should make an entire episode focused on a gay character just so they can add some representation, but what's the problem with Hasbro introducing a gay character or two and then leaving it at that?  

I mean, it wouldn't really be much more political then having a heterosexual character. 

[Guest]

Just now, Yamet said:

The fact that people feel as if one should only include LBGT+ people if they "add to narrative" has always bugged me a bit. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Hasbro should make an entire episode focused on a gay character just so they can add some representation, but what's the problem with Hasbro introducing a gay character or two and then leaving it at that?  

I mean, it wouldn't really be much more political then having a heterosexual character. 

In short I am saying:

If they want to include them, then go ahead because it's clear it's part of the narrative they want to tell. What I am not for is including them just to appease a group when they didn't want them in the first place. I perhaps should word this better in saying that what I consider "adding to the narrative" is it was the story the creators wanted to tell and not one that people forced them to do so because they demanded representation.

[Jeric 46,851]

 

On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 4:29 PM, KillerKingBakudan said:

Rainbows are a part of nature.

Everything is a part of nature. Everything is chemical in nature as everything in nature is chemical.

If you find yourself consistently put off or otherwise constantly annoyed with others' presuppositions and initial assumptions, you will find life rather bothersome. 

Appropriateness in social conventions aside, I'll fucking wear what I want irrespective of how others will judge. I actually rather prefer they do have incorrect preconceptions, it means I can surprise them all the more, and my interaction with them will stand out in their memory long after they have forgotten the day of the week we met. 

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,161]

While there have certainly been worse instances, I do ask that people be careful with how you express your opinions. Using phrases like nonsense or shallow, as well as prescribing your own opinions as fact doesn't do much to help this discussion progress naturally. It's fine to disagree, but be mindful of how you express it.

Thank you.