Issues with the School of Friendship Arc

[ManaMinori 4,145]

because of the overarching narrative of the SoF, i think this season delivers far more plot contrivances across the board, than any other. Especially with the finale. Omg

[Ganondox 899]

On 8/19/2018 at 11:52 AM, Nightmare Muffin said:

There was a rather interesting analysis of Starlight that I came across by NuvaPrime on dA, which went into detail on Starlight's lack of development, and how- in a nutshell- she really doesn't deserve her "graduate of friendship"/ "Guidance Counselor" role and title, because she's proven that she really isn't; and how, with "On the road to Friendship" , it was made clear.

  Hide contents

 

So it seems to address the issue that Starlight, rather than coming to the realization that she's ever truly in the wrong, or have crossed a line with her friends, when something results due to her own actions- mind controlling the mane 6 to get a friendship lesson done quicker, switching cutie marks of the Princesses without their consent, endangering the hive of Changelings, infecting three innocent bystanders with her hostile emotions that were bottled up, and now trading off other people's personal property without consideration for them....it all seems like Starlight really isn't learning much of anything, and certainly not deserving of her status or titles of Friendship School councilor or graduate of the Princess of Friendship, because there's a trend of having her cone to the realization of all these scenarios- not that she crossed a line and offended or hurt her friends, but due to inconvenience on herself somehow. Her apologies aren't really genuine because of that, so it just  keeps happening.

First, she return because moving the caravan was too hard, it’s because traveling alone was miserable. The important of this subtle distinction is that she didn’t value Trixe for her labor, but for her companionship. You could argue she’s still being selfish, but it’s at least a slightly more generous interpretation of her behavior. 

And that’s the thing. It’s not the that Starlight Glimmer was being selfish in all the instances you listed, it’s that you interpreted it that way. All those instances could also be interpreted as her trying to help others, she just didn’t realize they didn’t see things the way she did. For example, here Glimmer saw that the crowded caravan was the source of both their problems, and by getting a more spacious caravan they could get along again. She didn’t realize Trixie cared so much about her wagon, and didn’t know she had rejected Hoo’Far’s offer already, she just saw a new opportunity to solve the problem and she jumped on it. Yes, it wasn’t Starlight Glimmer’s caravan to sell, but the issue wasn’t that she’s selfish, but that she’s impulsive. It’s who she is, it’s not a trait that’s going to go away by studying friendship more. 

[Ganondox 899]

On 9/3/2018 at 8:20 PM, Nightmare Muffin said:

it has taken me a while to fully understand why season 8's theme of having a school didn't gel with me, and a lot of other people. It seemed really out of place for the Mane 6 to be setting up a school, the show itself addressed the issue, but just as quickly waved it away, the episodes where we got teaching lessons with them seemed like they weren't all that qualified to teach, and even when we got said school, there were many unanswered questions that still remain. It wasn't until I read this article by Adam Grant, an organizational psychologist (linked below), that I truly understood why FiM's season 8 and its Friendship school with the Mane 6 as its teachers doesn't work as it should.

  Hide contents

I am not claiming any content or thoughts expressed in the quotes under the spoiler section of this OP as my own nor posting it as such.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/25/opinion/sunday/college-professors-experts-advice.html

  Hide contents

 

put as simply as possible, the Mane 6 aren't qualified to teach because they're experts at it, and while that may seem good and perfect as far as credentials go, because they are masters of the art and have done so since long ago, they are too far removed from the introductory course of the subject for it to be relevant to use who are just trying to learn the art of friendship, and it would be far more beneficial to learn from say, a graduate student (such as the CMC).

As the psychologist Sian Beilock, now the president of Barnard College, writes,   “As you get better and better at what you do, your ability to communicate your understanding or to help others learn that skill often gets worse and worse.”

While they are the elements of harmony, the show has demonstrated that they AREN’T masters of friendship. They are constantly making mistakes, if they weren’t we wouldn’t have a show! So it sounds like they actually fit in the category the article described as good teachers. They still have no pedological training though. 

[ManaMinori 4,145]

On 9/10/2018 at 8:25 PM, Ganondox said:

While they are the elements of harmony, the show has demonstrated that they AREN’T masters of friendship. They are constantly making mistakes, if they weren’t we wouldn’t have a show! So it sounds like they actually fit in the category the article described as good teachers. They still have no pedological training though. 

Its not even about them needing to be "masters" of friendship. I'm saying that the holes and contrivances in having the school, and how its been handled would still be and ARE present. In the quote that you quoted, the evidence is there that someone who "mastered" or graduated a long time ago in a certsin subject is less qualified to teach it as opposed to someone who more recently graduated or learned from X subect, since the basics would be fresher and more accessable to be taught to others, such as the School 6. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by Nightmare Muffin

[Ganondox 899]

4 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

Its not even about them needing to be "masters" of friendship. I'm saying that the holes and contrivances in having the school, and how its been handled would still be and ARE present. In the quote that you quoted, the evidence is there that someone who "mastered" or graduated a long time ago in a certsin subject is less qualified to teach it as opposed to someone who more recently graduated or learned from X subect, since the basics would be fresher and more accessable to be taught to others, such as the School 6. 

The point you're missing is that they didn't graduate a long time ago, they're still learning! 

[PurpleWonderPower 81]

Yes, Yes, YES! Finally, finally, FINALLY, somebody gets it! A School of Friendship is ridiculous! Friendship is not something you can teach in a classroom! It can't be taught, it can only be learned! Celestia didn't teach Twilight friendship in a classroom, neither did Twilight Starlight. She set her off on a path to learn about it as she lived her life! That is the only way to learn about friendship! It's not something you can just teach in a classroom, with tests and worksheets and exam papers! I mean, what the heck!?

[ManaMinori 4,145]

13 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

Yes, Yes, YES! Finally, finally, FINALLY, somebody gets it! A School of Friendship is ridiculous! Friendship is not something you can teach in a classroom! It can't be taught, it can only be learned! Celestia didn't teach Twilight friendship in a classroom, neither did Twilight Starlight. She set her off on a path to learn about it as she lived her life! That is the only way to learn about friendship! It's not something you can just teach in a classroom, with tests and worksheets and exam papers! I mean, what the heck!?

it blatantly contradicts the lesson of the A plot from "The Crystalling".

[PurpleWonderPower 81]

10 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

it blatantly contradicts the lesson of the A plot from "The Crystalling".

Exactly!!

[Brainstorm 4,112]

I have no problem with the School of Friendship, as long as the characters remain who they are, don't change too much, then it's fine with me.

[heavens-champion 1,905]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 6:00 PM, Nightmare Muffin said:

it blatantly contradicts the lesson of the A plot from "The Crystalling".

Eh, the Crystalling was underwhelming, anyway.

[Will Guide 21,362]

On 2018-08-11 at 10:08 PM, BastementSparkle said:

Okay, the issue I have when people criticize Twilight for trying to teach Friendship to other races using her Friendship school is that...well, it's not only for other races? Ponies are going to the Friendship school too, heck most of the students seem to be ponies. People keep making such a big deal out of the other races attending while totally ignoring this factor. If Twi had made a friendship school and then all the students were ponies, I bet you someone on the forums would ask "Hey, why aren't there any of the other races?" instead.

  If Twilight wants to try and teach friendship, I don't see why it's so wrong to try and teach it to every creature who wants to learn. Plus, this idea that Twi's assuming that the other creatures don't know anything about friendship is kind of silly, unless you think she also believes ponies don't know anything about friendship, cause there's a lot of them in the school too, like I said.

 Also, as for some of your other criticism. The idea of a "School of Friendship" isn't entirely ridiculous. The school helps provide a safe, friendly environment for ponies and other creatures to meet and make friends with each other, they likely have plenty of downtime in the morning, in between and after classes to just hang out together. The lessons and teachers are there to serve as a general guideline to help set the students on the right track, and help them deal with problems, as well as get the students interacting with each other in class. The school clearly isn't meant to be your typical school with "One size fits all" lessons, that was the whole point of the premiere, that it wouldn't work like that.

 The fact that the students started getting along with each other outside of class is still, in a way, proof that the school works. The Student six would have likely never met without the school existing. They all quickly became friends because they went to the school, and while that was mostly on them, now they get to stay together there, learning how to be friends, with the Mane Six and Starlight there to help guide them.

I've been looking for a positive answer that shows the benefits of having a school of friendship for years. Thank you

[Megas 27,742]

The biggest problem with the Friendship School is that the very concept of a friendship school in and of itself is dumb as fuck

[Tom Gallagher 33,593]

I wouldn’t mind so much if it didn’t quite go against some of the earlier lessons and if the Students weren’t the most insufferable characters to be around! 

[ZiggWheelsManning 10,790]

The place was established in an area of not-so-much open land with even a lake surrounding it.  The Mane 6 are locked-in with so many jobs, they would pass out in exhaustion, without consuming the 3 meals required to survive  Also, former villains get to have prominent jobs there.  No security ponies to defend the place.  Dishonest professional baseball horses who bang trash cans would run this place smoothly.  Finally, no background check on a certain filly with a rook cutie mark  

[Lnx1ynight16 949]

I think it’s good. Personally I think it’s good for everyone to learn about friendships.