Why do people like Luna?

[Goat-kun 2,527]

23 minutes ago, TBD said:

"Do Princess dream of Magic Sheep" technically confirm that she can fix herself. She has finally find closure and is now soundly asleep. 

Twilight told her not to feel the sads and she said OK

[Goat-kun 2,527]

44 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

Yea that is what makes her relatable which is exactly what I said.

You misunderstood. There are many of us who feel that way and still think people like Luna should take a hike.

45 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

Conjecture and assumption and nothing more. We have seen there are some times where she cant fix herself but that does not mean its always the case. Everyone needs help from time to time. Sorta the point of the show where the tag line is friendship is magic. 

But we do have proof that she eventually came to her senses with help and understanding and as no one can be helped unless they want it and do the work themselves she indeed has to fix herself. Oh and if you are implying she cant fix herself so she cant fix others well that is patently false. One can be a broken individual and give others wisdom that helps them at the same time.

You mean that time when she was helped by just about everypony in Equestria? This is not the case where some cute raccoon girl helps to quell the rage of the main protagonist. The FIM version looked like an intervention We've never seen her pulling her shit together on her own.

46 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

Again you have nothing to back this. Running fine and running well are two separate things. She clearly helps several people via their dreams and we have no idea what could be needed if that realm was ever under attack.

How about a thousand years of prosperity and all the years before her existence? How about the dreams of every creature not under her jurisdiction?

48 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

No proof. You have no proof that this was deliberate any more then I do that this was a psychotic break that caused a personality shift. 

 

But not to jail. There is a difference in being made to get help and being sent to jail and having a criminal record. 

Dark forces, am I right? She dindo nuffin. Buying drugs is still your own free will, btw. Ask NMM what she wants and she'll tell you. This thing was not born out of benevolent sorrow.

 

Jail, asylum, what's the difference when you're dealing with powerful magic users?

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

On 3/23/2019 at 2:14 PM, Metemponychosis said:

She's a great example of why MLP isn't as good as people like to say it is, but it is brimming with charisma. You can see this, as most people only finally related to Celestia when the cartoon turned her into a goofball, without even bothering to show why she was important other than the 'sun thing' that was never very relevant to begin with.

I think it's more complicated than that. Celestia had a bad rep right from the first two episodes. I'm sure enough people were at least miffed that Celestia couldn't see the pain that her sister was going through before it reached the breaking point. Maybe Luna was just too good at internalizing it until she snapped? But even upon her return, it's Luna who is still suffering. She's been forgiven but she still can't forgive herself, and is torturing herself with the Tantabus. Celestia on the other hand, never shows any real regrets. Luna has always been doing the apologizing. Granted, everyone is responsible for their own actions, but that we're never shown any hint of remorse from Celestia suggests she's either apathetic, or just plain oblivious. I don't think that's true, but we're never shown it. The best we have is fanworks about the subject. Even with being reunited, after a thousand years, Celestia's words to Luna are mostly professional, not personal, as if she was reciting a pre-written speech. And kKnowing what set Luna off, at the very least the first thing I would have done after that is to set up a Lunar Festival of some kind, focusing on the beauty of the night, an event when everypony stays up. We don't see any of this, and combined with some of the questionable ways she deals with Twilight (which we wouldn't fully understand until seasons later), what we were given was a seemingly very shallow character; a rather stereotypical unsympathetic ruler.

Celestia simply wasn't presented well, which created a lot of dissenters *coughLunarRepubliccough.* The 'Trollestia' meme became a thing for a reason.

[Jedishy 3,548]

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

You misunderstood. There are many of us who feel that way and still think people like Luna should take a hike.

 

2 hours ago, Jedishy said:

Yea and there are thousands of flat earthers or antivaxers but it does not make the position logical. Numbers doth not a correct position make. 

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

We've never seen her pulling her shit together on her own.

Yes and most people when in pain need help. Especially when it appears to be akin to magical PTSD. So your point is? Saying because we have seen someone need help in three critical moments in their life revolving around the same issue only means that one of the hardest things in her life was hard to get over.... huh funny thing that trauma is hard to get past. Further in the end she had to overcome it on her own. They bought her time to come to the answer but SHE had to come to it. Just like therapy, a professional can help hand you the tools but YOU gotta do the work. 

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

How about a thousand years of prosperity and all the years before her existence? How about the dreams of every creature not under her jurisdiction?

 

2 hours ago, Jedishy said:

You do not know what dreams she deals with or does not. If she raises the moon or Celestia the sun you have to assume that they do that for ya know the entire world so there is no reason to assume she does not help the dreams of everyone. Further again just because 99.99% of your life you dont need the cops or a trauma surgeon does not mean you want to get rid of the profession forever. IE she is the only one that we know of that can handle the dream world. Assumptions like this are a great way to say hello to Mr Murphy. 

 

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

This thing was not born out of benevolent sorrow.

Never claimed it was. I said it was born of sadness and isolation. Which are not of free will but the nature of her job. So drugs are a joke comparison. This is more a mental break due to the nature of her work and not being mature enough to deal with it properly. Her time in isolation and the finding of friendship and love helped giver her the perspective she needed. Oh and I never said she did nothing. She did her time and paid the price. Strawmen of wet straw fall apart so easily. 

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

Jail, asylum, what's the difference when you're dealing with powerful magic users?

 

If you do not see the difference between the two I cant really help you. One has way more freedom and likely a much shorter sentence behind it. Further one gives you help the other is just punishment. 

[Goat-kun 2,527]

8 hours ago, Jedishy said:

Yea and there are thousands of flat earthers or antivaxers but it does not make the position logical. Numbers doth not a correct position make.

Did you just claim that liking Luna is scientifically correct? Tell me how liking Luna is the right thing to do.

8 hours ago, Jedishy said:

Yes and most people when in pain need help. Especially when it appears to be akin to magical PTSD. So your point is? Saying because we have seen someone need help in three critical moments in their life revolving around the same issue only means that one of the hardest things in her life was hard to get over.... huh funny thing that trauma is hard to get past. Further in the end she had to overcome it on her own. They bought her time to come to the answer but SHE had to come to it. Just like therapy, a professional can help hand you the tools but YOU gotta do the work.

Yes, I am saying she needs help. Lots and lots of help. She's currently a frail little girl with mental issues blessed with all kinds of destiny bonuses and not a hero. There's nothing heroic about her. She's still acting like a lukewarm villain. That's why some of us are complaining that you're feeding her the cake and let her eat it too.

8 hours ago, Jedishy said:

You do not know what dreams she deals with or does not. If she raises the moon or Celestia the sun you have to assume that they do that for ya know the entire world so there is no reason to assume she does not help the dreams of everyone. Further again just because 99.99% of your life you dont need the cops or a trauma surgeon does not mean you want to get rid of the profession forever. IE she is the only one that we know of that can handle the dream world. Assumptions like this are a great way to say hello to Mr Murphy.

I do know she did not exist before her birth. She's also clueless about villains as much as any other pony. Has she ever expressed knowledge about non-pones and unknown parts of the world? And she was in a time out for a thousand years. How is all of this conjecture? She's quite unnecessary.

8 hours ago, Jedishy said:

Never claimed it was. I said it was born of sadness and isolation. Which are not of free will but the nature of her job. So drugs are a joke comparison. This is more a mental break due to the nature of her work and not being mature enough to deal with it properly. Her time in isolation and the finding of friendship and love helped giver her the perspective she needed. Oh and I never said she did nothing. She did her time and paid the price. Strawmen of wet straw fall apart so easily. 

If you do not see the difference between the two I cant really help you. One has way more freedom and likely a much shorter sentence behind it. Further one gives you help the other is just punishment. 

Now who's making things up? She resented ponies and her sister, so she tried to shroud everything in her eternal night. She had Celestia, she had Starswirl, she was interacting with ponies, she was having fun building the castle. Yeah, her struggle was so very real. I'm not trying to deny she had a breakdown. I'm telling you that she's not a very inspiring character because she did have a breakdown despite everything that was done for her.

 

I know the legality and limitations behind forced hospitalization quite well. But this is fantasy. Our patients don't burst into the powered-up versions of their mental issues. You'd need some very badass orderlies.

[Jedishy 3,548]

2 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Did you just claim that liking Luna is scientifically correct?

No. I said that many people believe dumb things and numbers mean nothing when it comes to what is correct or not. So stop the straw man building or Im done. 

3 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

She's quite unnecessary.

Lets see simply because I have not expressed the totality of my knowledge here does not mean I do not know it. ( For example unless you read the Journal of Two Sisters you would not know she knows how to talk to animals a skill Celestia does not have. Or that she was the first pony to meet the Zebra and establish relations with them ) Simply because I have not used my fire extinguishers in the 8 years since I have been out of the Navy does not mean its smart to toss them away. ( I mean it took BOTH sisters to beat Discord and a bunch of the other villans but hey let's ignore that because it is detrimental to the stance eh? )  In short, this is an assumptions based on what you have not seen or read and nothing more. 

6 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Yes, I am saying she needs help. Lots and lots of help. She's currently a frail little girl with mental issues blessed with all kinds of destiny bonuses and not a hero. There's nothing heroic about her. She's still acting like a lukewarm villain. That's why some of us are complaining that you're feeding her the cake and let her eat it too.

I see this as nothing more than whining about a character you choose to ignore any good factors in making the opinion pointless. I mean fighting Discord or Sombra nah nothing heroic about that at all. Overcoming your isolation and mental issues it brought nah nothing to inspire there... 

7 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

She had Celestia, she had Starswirl, she was interacting with ponies, she was having fun building the castle. Yeah, her struggle was so very real.

Oh, this is funny. Let's see.... the castle was built before the time of her breakdown and had been for a long time. Starswirl had been gone for some time too. ( They both were built/disappeared when they were rather young ) Oh, she had her sister? You mean the sister she never got to see because she was asleep while her sister was up? As shown in the episode  Royal Problems. Oh, wait so you mean she broke down AFTER she lost her mentor and was pretty much all alone with no love from anypony for what she did and her sister as per Royal Problems thinking what she did was easy? Huh funny that. In short bad argument that she had it so easy. 

[Sunset Rose 254]

I'm still pretty indifferent to Luna. She needed much more development than she was given after the NMM snafu and she didn't really get it. It was a nice arc when it was about giving Celestia her sister back by Twilight and friends defeating her demons for her, less so when she became a ruler of Equestria in tandem with Celestia because... reasons. The viewer is just meant to believe she's not still got issues without convincing proof. That sells it just enough to not always complain about her still being a potential threat to Equestria, but there's nothing against that argument that she is still very much capable of being a threat to Equestria due to her mental issues. A Royal Problem didn't really address Luna's inferiorities, it just highlighted them since NMM and Daybreaker both existed. Celestia just wasn't weak enough to let them overcome her. But on the plus side; ooh, Princess of the Night, aah, pretty colours.

(Not that there's anything wrong with that. I don't think Luna or the show in general was meant to be that deep.)

Edited March 28, 2019 by Sunset Rose

[Gestum 2,493]

On 3/23/2019 at 5:56 PM, FearTheBelle said:

Essentially, she is the edgy teenager of the show,

You just answered your question right there. 

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

1 hour ago, Jedishy said:

Oh, this is funny. Let's see.... the castle was built before the time of her breakdown and had been for a long time. Starswirl had been gone for some time too. ( They both were built/disappeared when they were rather young ) Oh, she had her sister? You mean the sister she never got to see because she was asleep while her sister was up? As shown in the episode  Royal Problems. Oh, wait so you mean she broke down AFTER she lost her mentor and was pretty much all alone with no love from anypony for what she did and her sister as per Royal Problems thinking what she did was easy? Huh funny that. In short bad argument that she had it so easy. 

And that's if Celestia even knew how much Luna was suffering. I'm leaning towards not, otherwise you'd think they would have worked together to try and get through it, and there's a number of things that could have been tried in order to help with this.

I think she's learned to open up a lot more since Luna returned, but initially she still seemed to not be a very sympathetic pony. This is further hinted at by the crap that went down with Sunset, which ultimately led Celestia to try a very different approach to teaching. Two different Ponies ended up being stuck on distant worlds, indirectly because of Celestia. Whether that happened in the form of something more conscious, or just passive neglect, is anyone's guess. I really doubt Luna had anyone to lean on pre-Nightmare Moon.

[MangoFoalix 24,961]

Hey all, just a reminder that we should keep discussion a bit more on-topic. Debating is fine and all but when it leads into the terrority of conspiracy theories, it needs to be addressed.

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

3 minutes ago, TheTaZe said:

Hey all, just a reminder that we should keep discussion a bit more on-topic. Debating is fine and all but when it leads into the terrority of conspiracy theories, it needs to be addressed.

Conspiracy theories? Wait, what? I'm not denying that a Pony landed... ON THE MOOOOOOOOON!

[Goat-kun 2,527]

2 hours ago, Jedishy said:

No. I said that many people believe dumb things and numbers mean nothing when it comes to what is correct or not. So stop the straw man building or Im done.

I'm just trying to understand how that's relevant to our specific argument.

2 hours ago, Jedishy said:

Lets see simply because I have not expressed the totality of my knowledge here does not mean I do not know it. ( For example unless you read the Journal of Two Sisters you would not know she knows how to talk to animals a skill Celestia does not have. Or that she was the first pony to meet the Zebra and establish relations with them ) Simply because I have not used my fire extinguishers in the 8 years since I have been out of the Navy does not mean its smart to toss them away. ( I mean it took BOTH sisters to beat Discord and a bunch of the other villans but hey let's ignore that because it is detrimental to the stance eh? )  In short, this is an assumptions based on what you have not seen or read and nothing more.

But is Luna comparable to a fire extinguisher in her importance? The only time Luna was actually needed by ponies was when Luna screwed up. She's like a firemare pyromaniac. Unless you think parents and parent-like figures cannot handle bad dreams of foals by themselves.

2 hours ago, Jedishy said:

I see this as nothing more than whining about a character you choose to ignore any good factors in making the opinion pointless. I mean fighting Discord or Sombra nah nothing heroic about that at all. Overcoming your isolation and mental issues it brought nah nothing to inspire there...

Elements did most of the work. I'm giving Mane 6 the same heat when it comes to fighting. Friends from Friends could handle FIM villains. Chandler is the Element of Laughter ... or is that Pheebs? Nah, she's Honesty. Someone write a fanfic about this

2 hours ago, Jedishy said:

Oh, this is funny. Let's see.... the castle was built before the time of her breakdown and had been for a long time. Starswirl had been gone for some time too. ( They both were built/disappeared when they were rather young ) Oh, she had her sister? You mean the sister she never got to see because she was asleep while her sister was up? As shown in the episode  Royal Problems. Oh, wait so you mean she broke down AFTER she lost her mentor and was pretty much all alone with no love from anypony for what she did and her sister as per Royal Problems thinking what she did was easy? Huh funny that. In short bad argument that she had it so easy. 

So, who then defeated all those villains with the Elements of HARMONY? And those non-pone creatures were here friends as you've stated. What made her suddenly switch to not hanging around ponies who were sleeping at night? Was this ever about isolation? There's talk about not being appreciated by her subjects. That's not the same thing. Now why would a character that is promoted as a dark outcast worry about being appreciated? That's cause she's not a dark outcast. She's a pampered princess with no grit who needs to be emotionally validated for doing her job or she throws a riot. She may never have been as popular as Celestia, but claiming that she was ever isolated to the point of madness is pretty much a huge conjecture.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Goat-kun
Made an oopsie

[Jedishy 3,548]

59 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

I'm just trying to understand how that's relevant to our specific argument.

3 hours ago, Jedishy said:

Simple you tried to use the fact that many people that feel out shined dont like as if its a point in your favor. I simply pointed out that this means nothing. 

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

The only time Luna was actually needed by ponies was when Luna screwed up.

Or when she helped beat Discord and a half dozen other threats to her nation. 

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

Unless you think parents and parent-like figures cannot handle bad dreams of foals by themselves.

She deals with EVERYONE's dreams. Plus the adult ponies in the lives the CMCs did just such an awesome job dealing with their fears and dreams. I mean remember how it was AJ who told Scootaloo to face her fear? Or how it was Twilight that helped SweetiesBell get over her jealousy and saved Rarities headdress by knowing that it needed a dolphin stitched into it? Or how Fluttershy helped Applebloom overcome her fear of not getting her cutiemarks by showing her the dreams of other ponies? Oh wait..... that would be Luna. 

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

Elements did most of the work

Oh yea and its not the cop that saves you its their taser and handcuffs and firearm that does most of the work.... Um sorry but a tool must be used to be of help and that means that she did the work. 

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

Friends from Friends could yada yada

Wrong the elements choose who they respond to. Just like they no longer respond to Celestia now. So no only the ponty they chose can use them. 

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

. What made her suddenly switch to not hanging around ponies who were sleeping at night?

Oh, you assume she switched to this prior to feeling alone? Or did she learn to talk to people in her dreams to cope with the isolation after she was freed? 

 

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

There's talk about not being appreciated by her subjects. That's not the same thing. Now why would a character that is promoted as a dark outcast worry about being appreciated? T

Except anytime anyone felt alone and misunderstood in the series Luna was the two to talk about how she understands those feelings well and how they drove her to become NMN sooooo her own words back what I am saying. 

[TBD 17,254]

15 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Twilight told her not to feel the sads and she said OK

 

Yes but it was Luna’s choice to accept it or not. Sure she got the mane 6 to help her but it’s luna’s choice to move on.

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

2 hours ago, TBD said:

Yes but it was Luna’s choice to accept it or not. Sure she got the mane 6 to help her but it’s luna’s choice to move on.

It wasn't about getting over what she did. It was about being afraid she could do it again.

[TBD 17,254]

Just now, BornAgainBrony said:

It wasn't about getting over what she did. It was about being afraid she could do it again.

I mean it as forgiving herself.

[Goat-kun 2,527]

20 hours ago, TBD said:

Yes but it was Luna’s choice to accept it or not. Sure she got the mane 6 to help her but it’s luna’s choice to move on.

Yes, it is a patient's choice, but they still need a doctor to tell them what to do. That does not make her special. That just makes her a standard patient (with a subpar service if I may add).

[RDDash 19,186]

28 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Yes, it is a patient's choice, but they still need a doctor to tell them what to do.

Except that none of them are medical professionals, so any advice from them is just an advice.

Sorry for butting in

 

[Goat-kun 2,527]

21 hours ago, Jedishy said:

Simple you tried to use the fact that many people that feel out shined dont like as if its a point in your favor. I simply pointed out that this means nothing.

Absolutely. And feeling positively about Luna also means nothing. That's the whole point.

21 hours ago, Jedishy said:

Or when she helped beat Discord and a half dozen other threats to her nation.

EoH. Nuff said.

21 hours ago, Jedishy said:

She deals with EVERYONE's dreams. Plus the adult ponies in the lives the CMCs did just such an awesome job dealing with their fears and dreams. I mean remember how it was AJ who told Scootaloo to face her fear? Or how it was Twilight that helped SweetiesBell get over her jealousy and saved Rarities headdress by knowing that it needed a dolphin stitched into it? Or how Fluttershy helped Applebloom overcome her fear of not getting her cutiemarks by showing her the dreams of other ponies? Oh wait..... that would be Luna.

Yes, but is that a more important task than that of a fire extinguisher, and can it be relegated to the ponies you've mentioned? Also, I still don't see any proof that she can swoop into dreams of creatures from across the world. Convince me.

21 hours ago, Jedishy said:

Oh yea and its not the cop that saves you its their taser and handcuffs and firearm that does most of the work.... Um sorry but a tool must be used to be of help and that means that she did the work.

You need at least some training to use those tools safely and responsibly. Even Joey Tribbiani could use EoH Do you even need to target the enemy or do the gems do it for you? Can't tell.

21 hours ago, Jedishy said:

Wrong the elements choose who they respond to. Just like they no longer respond to Celestia now. So no only the ponty they chose can use them.

Why not? They're friends. There's six of them. I'm sure we could come to an agreement with the ol' Friendship Machina.

21 hours ago, Jedishy said:

Oh, you assume she switched to this prior to feeling alone? Or did she learn to talk to people in her dreams to cope with the isolation after she was freed? 

 

Except anytime anyone felt alone and misunderstood in the series Luna was the two to talk about how she understands those feelings well and how they drove her to become NMN sooooo her own words back what I am saying. 

She was a chatty pony. She still is a chatty pony. There was nothing preventing her from socializing. She was not antisocial. She was not hated by her subjects. She was hanging around with all those animals and non-pones. Isolation where? In her head?

 

Oh, I'm sure Luna felt the sads due to something. We're just not agreeing in how important that something is to an ordinary, mentally stable person.

[Goat-kun 2,527]

9 minutes ago, R.D.Dash said:

Except that none of them are medical professionals, so any advice from them is just an advice.

Sorry for butting in

 

It's fine. Well, it makes things worse, actually, but not for me. I'm not the one who's casually using and resolving self-harm issues in 22 min cartoon episodes.

[Jedishy 3,548]

Seeing as the only thing that happens with this is ignoring reality, dismissing any accomplishments, oh and a hilarious lack of understanding isolation while whining about dismissing mental illnesses. I'm done. When someone chooses to find every reason possible to hate a character to the point of ignoring real work done by them and the reality of the rules of the show logical discourse is impossible. Oh and protip isolation like all mental conditions is all in your head. 

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

Looks at avatar... looks at topic title... looks at avatar... Guess I like Luna... why? Do I really gotta justify why I like her?

She's just adorbs... really, watch Luna Eclipsed to see why she endeared herself to so many. The woobie is strong with this one. Is it good? Is it bad? Who knows? Who cares? It touches a chord. I'm not a Celestia hater by any means, but until her issues are explored further than "she likes cake" or whatnot (maybe they were, I haven't caught up past Season 6) Luna is always going to be more interesting to me. Plus she can help you out in your dreams! How cool is that? I could use some dream advice, these days.

(Yes, I know there was an episode about Sunbutt recently - and by recently, I mean in the last half a decade or so - (a term of affection, I also call Luna "Moonbutt" from time to time), but since the inclusion of Trixie in any episode annoys me , I haven't been keeping up with the more-recent, Trixie-apologist seasons. Plus, I like Steven Universe more these days - come at me, bro - so I don't have much motivation to catch up - use that as thou wilt.)

But spoiler alert... I won't be listening.

[TBD 17,254]

2 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Yes, it is a patient's choice, but they still need a doctor to tell them what to do. That does not make her special. That just makes her a standard patient (with a subpar service if I may add).

 

If you say so, but just a heads up, having Luna going through  shit isn’t what make her special or liked by many fans. It’s her character that got the fans’ attention. I mean out of these princesses beside Twilight, princess Luna shows character development and depth. Unlike princess Celestia and Cadence.

[Goat-kun 2,527]

1 hour ago, TBD said:

If you say so, but just a heads up, having Luna going through  shit isn’t what make her special or liked by many fans. It’s her character that got the fans’ attention. I mean out of these princesses beside Twilight, princess Luna shows character development and depth. Unlike princess Celestia and Cadence.

I have been lurking around when Luna had no development and fans were still fascinated by her. Then we got Children of the Moon, Moon Rises, and all that fancy fan stuff that has put Luna into the territory of a super popular social outcast that dindu nuffin. Even Lullaby for a Princess throws all the blame on Celestia. Where are all the musical musings about how Luna made an oopsie?

We have glorified her suffering. We both know where further discussion about popular fan art leads, right? Back to the beginning of this thread and straight into darkness of the human mind.

[TBD 17,254]

2 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

I have been lurking around when Luna had no development and fans were still fascinated by her. Then we got Children of the Moon, Moon Rises, and all that fancy fan stuff that has put Luna into the territory of a super popular social outcast that dindu nuffin. Even Lullaby for a Princess throws all the blame on Celestia. Where are all the musical musings about how Luna made an oopsie?

 

We have glorified her suffering. We both know where further discussion about popular fan art leads, right? Back to the beginning of this thread and straight into darkness of the human mind.

 

You actually  think Luna’s fans glorified  her suffering? I’m sorry, but if that is how you see it then expect to be the only one.

But hey, that’s your opinion and I won’t argue against that. People can either hate Luna or like her. Either way,  it’s won’t change the damn a thing. If you guys wonder why people like Luna then lets  stick to the topic exploring why, instead of ranting. That can be for a new separate thread.