Why Reforming Starlight Glimmer Was A Terrible Idea

[Latecomer 438]

5 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

If it's all subjective, then having Starlight is equal to not having her, but since having her VA costs money, it means having Starlight is worse than not having her since not having her is just as good, but if having or not having Starlight is not equally good, then it cannot possibly be subjective. Come back when you pull your head out of the subjectivity orifice.

 

Then let's make it a little girl problem. Let's make Starlight into a prissy  yet personally powerless little earth pony that wants to force all other little pony girls at the tea party to drink the same brand of tea. Also, her daddy has a better carriage than all other daddies. I for one can totally go for this kind of MLP. So primal.

 

But I don't think not having her is equally good. I think she adds to the show - although as the existence of several seasons ealier proves, it can also manage fine without her. It's just better for having her.

And uou jest, but wasn't that FIM's most recurring villain?

 

[Goat-kun 2,500]

58 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

But I don't think not having her is equally good. I think she adds to the show - although as the existence of several seasons ealier proves, it can also manage fine without her. It's just better for having her.

That is just a subjective opinion and is nullified by the tide of countless other subjective opinions. If you are regarding all these thoughts as equal to each other then why should anyone, including yourself, bother with your opinion? It's just white noise.

58 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

And uou jest, but wasn't that FIM's most recurring villain?

Dunno if one can regard Tiara as an actual villain. And I wasn't joking. Trivial problems deserve trivial antagonists and trivial solutions. If you can't separate problems that deserve magical nukes from problems that should be resolved by a schoolyard scuffle, then friendlessness and bullying are the least of your problems.

[Latecomer 438]

1 minute ago, Goat-kun said:

That is just a subjective opinion and is nullified by the tide of countless other subjective opinions. If you are regarding all these thoughts as equal to each other then why should anyone, including yourself, bother with your opinion? It's just white noise.

 

Obviously I consider mi opinion to be more correct then other opninions - or whi have it? But as the existence of this thread proves, others will have their own opininons wheter I like it or not.

3 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Dunno if one can regard Tiara as an actual villain. And I wasn't joking. Trivial problems deserve trivial antagonists and trivial solutions. If you can't separate problems that deserve magical nukes from problems that should be resolved by a schoolyard scuffle, then friendlessness and bullying are the least of your problems.

 

 Antagonist, then. And making small, relatable problems epic is a whole school of writing.

[Goat-kun 2,500]

10 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

Obviously I consider mi opinion to be more correct then other opninions - or whi have it? But as the existence of this thread proves, others will have their own opininons wheter I like it or not.

You are a hypocrite then. Preaching equality of opinion while regarding yours as superior, makes even less sense for anyone to listen to what you have to say. I'm beginning to see why you like Starlight

10 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

 Antagonist, then. And making small, relatable problems epic is a whole school of writing.

That doesn't mean you should go ahead and let those characters scarred oh so tremendously by a trivial problem create problems that are not in fact trivial but are swept under the rug cause the trivial problem takes precedence in the story. Then it's either a tragedy, a dark comedy ... or 40k

[Rushing cash 829]

I can understand why people think starlight "ruined" the show, she was kinda the voice of reason and to some degree seems to appear sometimes as "mary sue", she took the spotlight from the main characters at some parts, and a few times they dumbed-down others for her to solve the problem. I personally love starlight as a villain(one of my favorites villains in the show, I think they could have done amazing things with her as a villain) and as a supporting character, I love what they did with her, although in hindsight they could have done it a bit better, but isn't that the case always? As for the backstory, it was a pretty lame one and disappointing one, but it makes sense in universe and works for her, but understandable if some couldn't look past it. 

 

  

[Thrond 3,257]

Wow, what a blast from the past. I hadn't thought that hard about Starlight in seasons 6 and 7 in a while. I didn't like her in seasons 6 and 7 either, but I think she gets way better in the last two seasons. There's also a lot less of her in seasons 8 and 9, so take that how you will... 

I don't actually agree with all of your complaints, especially when you use TVTropes buzzwords. I'm not concerned with "power levels," because I don't think that has any impact on the personal stories that this show excelled at. I liked the season 6 finale a lot, because that was based on character development; the mane six's competence in a fight does not interest me at all. And I think the fact that she repeatedly did horrifying things after supposedly being reformed makes it hard to call her a "Mary Sue," though she shouldn't have kept getting away with it; I definitely agree that the whole process should have required more effort from her than it did. 

My perspective on Starlight's reformation is basically that she genuinely wanted to do the right thing, but something was seriously wrong with her that kept her from understanding what "the right thing" was. I find this show's naiveté pleasant as a form of escapism, but I feel a lot could have been fixed had the show taken her issues more seriously; something was clearly wrong in her brain, and she posed a constant danger to herself and others. The story of Twilight & co. attempting to rehabilitate her could be interesting, but if the show wasn't willing to go all the way with that, maybe it shouldn't have had her do such terrible things. 

On 3/29/2020 at 12:29 PM, Latecomer said:

I sort of got vhis sense from her and also from Sunset in EQG - it can be a strength or a weakness for them.

I was never a huge fan of how those characters were developed; to me, it seemed like a poor fit for the show's simple storytelling style, to the point that both of those characters felt incoherent to me at times. They both kept shifting between different modes in a way that always seemed awkward.

When I see stuff like this, I'm reminded that there's a whole bunch of people who came to My Little Pony late and don't particularly care about the stuff that attracted me to the show. Here I am, already invested in the mane six, thinking that the show should have developed those characters in new directions instead of just introducing bland new characters while letting the old ones stagnate. 

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by AlexanderThrond

[Latecomer 438]

1 hour ago, AlexanderThrond said:

When I see stuff like this, I'm reminded that there's a whole bunch of people who came to My Little Pony late and don't particularly care about the stuff that attracted me to the show. Here I am, already invested in the mane six, thinking that the show should have developed those characters in new directions instead of just introducing bland new characters while letting the old ones stagnate. 

 

Just to clarifu, because the name can be deceptive - I'm an oldschool season 1 fan. But I don't think developing old chracters and adding new ones is an either/or.

And I agree with most of uour perspective on Starlight (although I liked her earlier.)

[Thrond 3,257]

38 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

Just to clarifu, because the name can be deceptive - I'm an oldschool season 1 fan. But I don't think developing old chracters and adding new ones is an either/or.

And I agree with most of uour perspective on Starlight (although I liked her earlier.)

I actually came in around the end of season 2. Even season 7, where Starlight had the most focus episodes, still focuses on the mane six pretty often; the problems with them in the later seasons aren't because of new characters. But in season 7 especially, I sometimes felt like Starlight was doing things that the mane six should be doing. For example, some people saw Starlight's snarkiness as a refreshing change from the mane six, but it just made me wish the mane six were snarkier. 

I liked her in certain season 6 episodes and maybe one or two season 7 episodes as well but I found her weirdly inconsistent until the school came around. 

[Latecomer 438]

14 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I actually came in around the end of season 2. Even season 7, where Starlight had the most focus episodes, still focuses on the mane six pretty often; the problems with them in the later seasons aren't because of new characters. But in season 7 especially, I sometimes felt like Starlight was doing things that the mane six should be doing. For example, some people saw Starlight's snarkiness as a refreshing change from the mane six, but it just made me wish the mane six were snarkier. 

I liked her in certain season 6 episodes and maybe one or two season 7 episodes as well but I found her weirdly inconsistent until the school came around. 

Ideally, her role should be the outsider who can say things becasue she isn't so bound up in the group. But it's possible she snuck into some of the group space instead.

[Megas 27,087]

It's really more from how her redemption was handled than anything else with her laughably bad backstory, but it also came out in a period where people were starting to get really sick of villain reformations, especially since most of them were really bad and I think Starlight was really the worst of it. Of course the show never learned its lesson, if the entire bloody changeling race, Garble, Ahuizotl and Caballeron were any indication

[Latecomer 438]

Just now, Megas said:

It's really more from how her redemption was handled than anything else with her laughably bad backstory, but it also came out in a period where people were starting to get really sick of villain reformations, especially since most of them were really bad and I think Starlight was really the worst of it. Of course the show never learned its lesson, if the entire bloody changeling race, Garble, Ahuizotl and Caballeron were any indication

I'll give you the others, but this one felt a lot better than Starlight's.

[Thrond 3,257]

11 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

Ideally, her role should be the outsider who can say things becasue she isn't so bound up in the group. But it's possible she snuck into some of the group space instead.

I found her personality really inconsistent and lacking in unique characteristics that season, which I think is a big part of why she was so conspicuous all the time; maybe I wouldn't have spent "Triple Trouble" wishing Twilight was accompanied by someone else if Starlight Glimmer didn't bore me to tears. I felt the mane six lost their edge before Starlight came around, but at worst she could seem like a hodgepodge of traits that should have been allocated to them. "Shadow Play" would still be dubious even if Starlight was more interesting, though. 

[Latecomer 438]

8 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I found her personality really inconsistent and lacking in unique characteristics that season, which I think is a big part of why she was so conspicuous all the time; maybe I wouldn't have spent "Triple Trouble" wishing Twilight was accompanied by someone else if Starlight Glimmer didn't bore me to tears. I felt the mane six lost their edge before Starlight came around, but at worst she could seem like a hodgepodge of traits that should have been allocated to them. "Shadow Play" would still be dubious even if Starlight was more interesting, though. 

I can't  see it for the most part - she doesn't seem like the Manes, or even hang around with them much that season. As for Shadow Plau, she had a unique perspectie there. What was questionable was her once again being vhe main advice-giver in School Daze.  

[Goat-kun 2,500]

14 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I don't actually agree with all of your complaints, especially when you use TVTropes buzzwords. I'm not concerned with "power levels," because I don't think that has any impact on the personal stories that this show excelled at. I liked the season 6 finale a lot, because that was based on character development; the mane six's competence in a fight does not interest me at all. And I think the fact that she repeatedly did horrifying things after supposedly being reformed makes it hard to call her a "Mary Sue," though she shouldn't have kept getting away with it; I definitely agree that the whole process should have required more effort from her than it did.

I was going to leave it alone but I just can't help myself. It's the infernal contraption inside my head. It's been activated and it needs a few posts to cool off. Now let be shove some more tropes down your throat: Meet Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way, the goffest of all Mary Sues. She's a terrible person and a terrible character.

14 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

makes it hard to call her a "Mary Sue," though she shouldn't have kept getting away with it; I definitely agree that the whole process should have required more effort from her than it did.

Really gets your noggin joggin

Edited April 8, 2020 by Goat-kun
Bogdanovs

[Thrond 3,257]

4 hours ago, Latecomer said:

I can't  see it for the most part - she doesn't seem like the Manes, or even hang around with them much that season. 

I don't think it's a big thing for the most part, I just found her an uninteresting character who hogged too much screen time, at least in that season. 

4 hours ago, Latecomer said:

As for Shadow Plau, she had a unique perspectie there. What was questionable was her once again being vhe main advice-giver in School Daze.  

I kinda feel the opposite. Her unique perspective in "Shadow Play" seemed to come at the cost of making everyone else insensitive and thoughtless, whereas in "School Daze" she helps out because she was willing to kick Twilight while she was down instead of comfort her. 

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

I was going to leave it alone but I just can't help myself. It's the infernal contraption inside my head. It's been activated and it needs a few posts to cool off. Now let be shove some more tropes down your throat: Meet Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way, the goffest of all Mary Sues. She's a terrible person and a terrible character.

Really gets your noggin joggin

Alright, alright, I shouldn't have argued semantics, I agree with the point being made. 

[Latecomer 438]

52 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I don't think it's a big thing for the most part, I just found her an uninteresting character who hogged too much screen time, at least in that season. 

Whereas I fealt I really should be worried that she was being overused... but was too busy loving her every minute she was onscreen to do so.

[Splashee 28,537]

1 hour ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I don't think it's a big thing for the most part, I just found her an uninteresting character who hogged too much screen time, at least in that season.

Oh, which reminds me, she didn't have much screen time in Season 5 as a villain anyways. Like 4 episodes and a background scene.

But I can still forget all about that, just to have "Rock Solid Friendship" which was one of my most watched episodes.

[Evil Pink One 13,195]

My goodness...hahahaha starlight ruined the show? I guess she is the real villain in the show that won!  I was expecting this topic to talk about the story not about you guys complaining. i mean what does starlight ruining the show have to do with her being reformed? What does it have to do with you people who cant even enjoy the show? You guys ruined the show for yourself. All of it was good it ended in season 9 because they are not steven leaching universe.