Is Spike's hero status in the Crystal Empire deserved?

[CastletonSnob 3,080]

Some people have said that Spike doesn't deserve to be considered the hero of the Crystal Empire because Twilight, Shining and Cadance played just as big a part in defeating Sombra as he did.

What do you think?

[EpicEnergy 23,238]

If Spike doesn't deserve to be the hero of the Crystal Empire, who does? Without Twilight finding the secret entrance to where Sombra hid the Crystal Heart, no one would have found it in time. Without Cadence casting her force field around the Crystal Empire, no one would have been able to get the Crystal Heart because Sombra would have already taken over the Crystal Empire by then. Without the mane six distracting the crystal ponies, pandemonium would happen and Twilight wouldn't have found the Crystal Heart because of it. Without Shining Armor distracting Sombra, the mane six would have been neutralized by Sombra's dark magic when they fled to the Crystal Empire. Without Spike, the Crystal Heart would never have been found and Sombra would have won. Without the crystal ponies, no one would be able to activate the Crystal Heart's magic and Sombra would have won. With that said, so many ponies played key roles in defeating Sombra and saving the Crystal Empire, so how do you determine the hero without being unfair to the others? By declaring them all as the hero? If you look at it logically, you would decide the hero by the one who played the most important role. Twilight played a key role by searching for the crystal heart in the first place, so I think she should have been the hero. It would have made sense, as Celestia and Luna sent her on a mission to the crystal empire. However, it was not up to me to decide who was hero and who wasn't, it was the crystal ponies who decided and they chose Spike as the hero since his role was the most noticeable by the crystal ponies.

[Splashee 28,577]

I don't remember what part, but wasn't he an hero after saving something during the stupid pony games while being held in the Crystal Empire? That's season 4, my least favorite, so I haven't seen it in years

[nightshroud96 124]

11 minutes ago, Onion Splash said:

I don't remember what part, but wasn't he an hero after saving something during the stupid pony games while being held in the Crystal Empire? That's season 4, my least favorite, so I haven't seen it in years

Yep, he was hailed as a hero again by melting that giant falling ice that was going to crush many ponies at the Equestrian Games.

[Splashee 28,577]

Just now, nightshroud96 said:

Yep, he was hailed as a hero again by melting that giant falling ice that was going to crush many ponies at the Equestrian Games.

But the first time, wasn't it twilight's mission from Celestia to save the Crystal Ponies with their history-y... God that song gets into my head. What I mean was, Twilight was the one doing the real work... Oh I get it now

 

Spike deserves nothing! 

[SharpWit 2,771]

Whether he deserves it or not, his image is a moral boost to what was an emotionally repressed community with few figures to look up to. Princess Cadence and Shining Armor are ruling over the Crystal Empire, amd Twilight is a princess in her own right, so their images would already get plastered everywhere. Spike was unique in just being the little guy tagging along, which serves to also inspire the common folk.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

At least let him have this. Come on.

[Tom Gallagher 33,604]

Of course he deserved it!  It's about time he got recognised for something! 

[FlareGun45 2,221]

He did deserve it! Just like he deserved saving Equestria by befriending Thorax in season 6, his role in the Movie, and being part of the final climax in season 9!

[HeavenSunset 1,870]

I don't remember a lot about MLP, Ironic

But if spoke didn't do what he did in season 2 then the Crystal Empire wouldn't be here

[Dark Qiviut 22,500]

Hell, yeah, he deserves it!

1. Spike was the one who brought the Heart out from its hiding place. If Shining Armor didn't see that, Sombra wouldn't have been able to sling Cadance to retrieve it.
2. A cloud got frozen over the stadium, and all of the unicorn/alicorn magic got locked during the second half. His fire-breathing abilities melted it and saved thousands of lives.
3. Spike and Starlight found out where Sunburst was, leading him to discovering how to mend the Crystal Heart.
4. Despite his massive celebrity status there, he confronted his family over their anti-changeling prejudice and befriended one in front of them. He risked his entire reputation within both the empire and his own kin to do what was right.

[Goat-kun 2,530]

I don't consider those aided by "instawin" artifacts as heroes. Spike is no struggler. He is merely a glimmer on the river of destiny.

[nightshroud96 124]

4 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

I don't consider those aided by "instawin" artifacts as heroes. Spike is no struggler. He is merely a glimmer on the river of destiny.

 

So that applies to the Mane 6 and Royal Sisters due to they used the Elements of Harmony?
Then again since Luna and Celestia can no longer use the Elements, they were practically screwed.
Despite being powerful alicorns they are incapable of truly protecting Equestria anymore due to not being able to fire rainbow lasers of doom at baddies and now forced to rely on the Mane 6 to do so.
Its just aggravating.

[FlareGun45 2,221]

4 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

I don't consider those aided by "instawin" artifacts as heroes. Spike is no struggler. He is merely a glimmer on the river of destiny.

 

Spike's no struggler? You're kiddin', right? Overworked with little credit, being outshined by his friends most of the time, neglected by his friends even, dealing with not knowing where he came from, dealt with a one-sided crush?

He struggled MORE than the Mane 6 did!

[nightshroud96 124]

6 minutes ago, FlareGun45 said:

Spike's no struggler? You're kiddin', right? Overworked with little credit, being outshined by his friends most of the time, neglected by his friends even, dealing with not knowing where he came from, dealt with a one-sided crush?

He struggled MORE than the Mane 6 did!

Would love to see Luna helping Spike through those struggles.

[CameoShadowness 251]

Yes he deserved it. While everyone played a part, you have to realize he was a huge key role that stood out. He had to be there with Twilight to not only get the Heart after she was trapped but even before to gt effected by Sombra's spell before Twilight got it preventing her from being trapped in nightmares.

[Goat-kun 2,530]

6 hours ago, FlareGun45 said:

Spike's no struggler? You're kiddin', right? Overworked with little credit, being outshined by his friends most of the time, neglected by his friends even, dealing with not knowing where he came from, dealt with a one-sided crush?

He struggled MORE than the Mane 6 did!

You literally described an average Joe.

7 hours ago, nightshroud96 said:

So that applies to the Mane 6 and Royal Sisters due to they used the Elements of Harmony?
Then again since Luna and Celestia can no longer use the Elements, they were practically screwed.
Despite being powerful alicorns they are incapable of truly protecting Equestria anymore due to not being able to fire rainbow lasers of doom at baddies and now forced to rely on the Mane 6 to do so.
Its just aggravating.

Yes!

[FlareGun45 2,221]

5 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

You literally described an average Joe.

An average joe woulda told the ponies off and he woulda left a long time ago - he's too good for that!  

[CameoShadowness 251]

9 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

You literally described an average Joe.

Yet he isn't because he went out of his way to help save thousands/millions instinctively multiple times. He is hugely important and if you take Spike out of the equation a LOT would have never happened.

[Goat-kun 2,530]

4 hours ago, FlareGun45 said:

An average joe woulda told the ponies off and he woulda left a long time ago - he's too good for that!  

You're confusing personality with events that happen in the life of an average Joe. What you've described are problems plaguing all of us, and we ain't no heroes. For everything else, there exists that famous Syndrome quote.

3 hours ago, CameoShadowness said:

Yet he isn't because he went out of his way to help save thousands/millions instinctively multiple times. He is hugely important and if you take Spike out of the equation a LOT would have never happened.

Let's ask ourselves: Who or what actually saved those creatures? Crystal contraption. Dragon fire. The character was just a vehicle for power that instantly solved everything. That's not heroic. That's pissing on a little fire while calling yourself a fireman.

 

P.S: You know, if Spike actually decided to flip off Mane 6 it would be the most heroic thing he's ever done.  

[CameoShadowness 251]

4 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Let's ask ourselves: Who or what actually saved those creatures? Crystal contraption. Dragon fire. The character was just a vehicle for power that instantly solved everything. That's not heroic. That's pissing on a little fire while calling yourself a fireman.

Uh Excuse you? Spike went out of his way to help. By that logic of yours NO ONE is a hero- not even the mane six because they are vehicles for Harmony. Do you not realize how stupid that is. You can't take Spike out of the equation and exepct things to still happen. What Spike did was NOT the equivalent of pissing on a fire and calling himself a fireman, he ran into the fire and successfully got people out safely.

[Goat-kun 2,530]

2 hours ago, CameoShadowness said:

Uh Excuse you? Spike went out of his way to help. By that logic of yours NO ONE is a hero- not even the mane six because they are vehicles for Harmony. Do you not realize how stupid that is. You can't take Spike out of the equation and exepct things to still happen. What Spike did was NOT the equivalent of pissing on a fire and calling himself a fireman, he ran into the fire and successfully got people out safely.

And do you realize how lazy it is to un-normalize good deeds? Are you a good person? Why that means you're a hero! No, it doesn't.

 

Is it heroic for an overpowered hero to wipe out a bunch of bandits that are terrorizing a village? It is for the villagers, but to the hero who does it without much effort it is just a good deed. To such a hero, defeating bandits is like escorting an old lady across the street. Willingly going against some dark overlord without a clear path to victory? Now that's heroic.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Goat-kun
Summer heat

[CameoShadowness 251]

4 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

And do you realize how lazy it is to un-normalize good deeds? Are you a good person? Why that means you're a hero! No, it doesn't.

 

 

 

Is it heroic for an overpowered hero to wipe out a bunch of bandits that are terrorizing a village? It is for the villagers, but to the hero who does it without much effort it is just a good deed. To such a hero, defeating bandits is like escorting an old lady across the street. Willingly going against some dark overlord without a clear path to victory? Now that's heroic.

 

 

I'm not talking about unormalizing good deeds, I'm talking about acknowledging what someone did and labeling them correctly for what they did.

With the example you put, it doesn't matter if the hero was "over powered" or not. The hero saved lives, yes defeating them could be like helping an old lady cross the street but those are two very different things. A hero isn't defined but how hard or not something is to them- it is defined by what they do. Saving people's lives is heroic PERIOD, Stopping bandits from terrorizing a whole village is heroic PERIOD.

Also Spike helping to retrieve the Crystal Heart had no clear path. There was no clear path to dealing wit that ice cloud falling to the ponies. Spike still did the best he could and saved countless. He could have ran away, he could have froze in fear like many did, he couldn't have bothered to join Twilight or the others yet he did.

[Goat-kun 2,530]

42 minutes ago, CameoShadowness said:

I'm not talking about unormalizing good deeds, I'm talking about acknowledging what someone did and labeling them correctly for what they did.

With the example you put, it doesn't matter if the hero was "over powered" or not. The hero saved lives, yes defeating them could be like helping an old lady cross the street but those are two very different things. A hero isn't defined but how hard or not something is to them- it is defined by what they do. Saving people's lives is heroic PERIOD, Stopping bandits from terrorizing a whole village is heroic PERIOD.

Also Spike helping to retrieve the Crystal Heart had no clear path. There was no clear path to dealing wit that ice cloud falling to the ponies. Spike still did the best he could and saved countless. He could have ran away, he could have froze in fear like many did, he couldn't have bothered to join Twilight or the others yet he did.

Why, it is defined by the person doing it. The overpowered hero is in no danger whatsoever while he's dealing with the bandits. It's just a job, yet from the perspective of the villagers his actions are heroic.

 

There was no clear path, but also no clear danger that Spike would have to face directly when retrieving the Crystal Heart. The ice cloud was a similar, unexpected, and at that point unavoidable situation. Both Sombra and the cloud were forced upon Spike and he reacted like any cornered creature would. Also, both hurdles were overcome with minimal effort, though one might claim that characters of FIM are not aware of how easy they have it.

 

Let's explore this further. Is a person who overcomes their phobia a hero? I would say that that is not the case, even though I've said that being a hero depends on the person. That is not the kind of deed I had in mind when I've made that statement. The person with the phobia might see themselves a hero for overcoming their fear, even when any normal person would see nothing dangerous from something like stepping into an elevator. Someone who is willingly and knowingly risking their life for others is a true hero in my book. Mane 6 and Spike fall into the phobe category as they are never in any real danger, and I'm not even talking about the mortal variety. In this sense, the viewer would be considered as the "normal person". Think of FIM as one would think of Don Quixote's delusions.

[CameoShadowness 251]

5 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Why, it is defined by the person doing it. The overpowered hero is in no danger whatsoever while he's dealing with the bandits. It's just a job, yet from the perspective of the villagers his actions are heroic.

Because that is literally how you define a hero! By what they do. Even if he is in no danger HIMSELF, he is going out of his way to help others.

5 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

There was no clear path, but also no clear danger that Spike would have to face directly when retrieving the Crystal Heart. The ice cloud was a similar, unexpected, and at that point unavoidable situation. Both Sombra and the cloud were forced upon Spike and he reacted like any cornered creature would. Also, both hurdles were overcome with minimal effort, though one might claim that characters of FIM are not aware of how easy they have it.

OMFG are you kidding me? You mean those black crystal spikes shooting from the ground at him and possibly trapping him like Twilight is "no clear danger"? Even right before that, him possibly being stuck in a perpetual nightmare due to King Sombra's curse is not a clear danger? What kind of stupidity is that? First of all, not all concerned creatures act the same, some run for their lives, some hide away- we even see this happen in the show. In the end, he still put in the effort to save people.

6 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Let's explore this further. Is a person who overcomes their phobia a hero? I would say that that is not the case, even though I've said that being a hero depends on the person. That is not the kind of deed I had in mind when I've made that statement. The person with the phobia might see themselves a hero for overcoming their fear, even when any normal person would see nothing dangerous from something like stepping into an elevator.

This has nothing to do with the FEAR of being a hero, this is about ACKNOWLEDGING someone for their heroism! Not only does he view himself as a hero- literally the entire Crystal Empire does as well.

 

Oh and this one kills me BECAUSE ITS WHAT SPIKE DOES!

6 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Someone who is willingly and knowingly risking their life for others is a true hero in my book.

In fact it's what ALL OF THE MANE SIX DO!! SO YOUR NEXT STATEMENT IS BEYOND CONTRADICTORY

6 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Mane 6 and Spike fall into the phobe category as they are never in any real danger, and I'm not even talking about the mortal variety. In this sense, the viewer would be considered as the "normal person". Think of FIM as one would think of Don Quixote's delusions.

They DO risk their lives! They ARE in real danger in their world! What nonsense are you spewing? Seriously? Do you not pay attention to your contractions? They could have died facing Nightmare Moon or other villains, Spike could have died taking the Crystal Heart- he could have became a slave, he could have gotten hurt in so many ways, he openly risks his life to help others but you casually ignore this EVEN THOUGH IT IS PART OF YOUR DEFINITION OF A HERO.