"The Last Bronycon: a fandom autopsy" video by Jenny Nicholson

[King of Canterlot 9,588]

@Buck Testa I honestly don't really care enough about this topic to continue any sort of discussion on it. I could refute your points even further but I really just don't care. I think I've said my piece and gotten out what I didn't like about the video, so I'll just leave it at that. Also, this-

5 hours ago, Buck Testa said:

Question; how many letters does the name "Jenny" have in it? Now I may be mistaken here, but I do believe it has the SAME amount of letters as the word LADY, and it doesn't come with the dreaded implications. However if you want to dance around in Plausible deniability land I'm not gonna stop ya.

Is just you being butthurt that you can't 100% confirm that I was being sexist (which I honestly wasn't, that accusation came right outta left-field). I would expect no less from someone who's very obviously a big simp for her. Enjoy her shitty videos slandering people/fandoms then bud.     

[Early Sunsets 2,106]

She has some good points, like how dakis of underage characters really shouldn't be a thing that happens, but then she has some really bad points, some of which are probably because she's so out of touch with the fandom. The brony community isn't dead because BronyCon is over, and other conventions are going to make it way past 2021.

Also, the whole "all bronies are now gay furries" thing is... something. We spent a lot of time on PrinceWhateverer's Twitch stream today joking about that, especially considering the "rampant homophobia in the brony community" she mentions earlier in the documentary. How exactly does a person saying, "I'm not gay," make them homophobic?

Edited July 23, 2020 by Booker

[Adorable Lovestar 243]

20 minutes ago, Booker said:

She has some good points, like how dakis of underage characters really shouldn't be a thing that happens, but then she has some really bad points, some of which are probably because she's so out of touch with the fandom. The brony community isn't dead because BronyCon is over, and other conventions are going to make it way past 2021.

Also, the whole "all bronies are now gay furries" thing is... something. We spent a lot of time on PrinceWhateverer's Twitch stream today joking about that, especially considering the "rampant homophobia in the brony community" she mentions earlier in the documentary. How exactly does a person saying, "I'm not gay," make them homophobic?

Wow am I glad I didn't watch the whole video, that sounds awful.

[Jokuc 8,172]

On 7/22/2020 at 6:23 AM, King of Canterlot said:

attacked the creator of Dawn Somewhere with false accusations, and then returns to make a video that essentially shits all over certain aspects of the fandom and declared that we're dead

I do not know nor am I interested what that drama was about, but can you tell me how her personal attacks against a creator makes her *less invested* in the fandom as a whole? Because that is what it seems like you are implying here. To me it looks like you are writing her off as uneducated because she did something bad and you don't like her. I don't agree with your statement of her "shitting on the fandom". The whole video is delivered more like a nostalgic love-letter from my perspective.

On 7/22/2020 at 6:23 AM, King of Canterlot said:

So according to you, once the hype and vast rapid growth of a fandom is gone, it's dead? Really? You don't know how fandoms and communities work then buddy.  By going with your "definition" the MLP fandom only lasted..... two, three years maybe? A fandom isn't shown to be alive or dead by it's overall numbers, this isn't some numbers game, what shows a fandom to be alive or dead is what it's community members do within it. Have you seen the recent fan-made animations lately? Have you been keeping up with the music? People from all across the globe are still creating pony content all across the internet. It doesn't matter if it's not the same type of stuff that was being created in 2012 or 2013, what matters is that stuff is still being made. What shows the fandom to be not dead is the very fact that websites like these forums are still around and that they still have very active user bases. Also the convention selling out two full hotels does show that the fandom isn't dead, you want to know why? Because that's more people in attendance than ever before. They've NEVER even sold out of their first hotel, let alone two, which means that the convention is growing. 

As I said, fandoms don't simply die. On paper. There will always be those who stick around no matter the state of the media. I did not say it is dead as soon as there is no "vast rapid growth". A fandom can have its growth slowed down but still be highly relevant and present. What I am saying is that if you are going to judge whether a fandom is "dying", then do so by looking at its overall activity. "Activity" includes fan-made content such as those things you mentioned. As there are no "minimum requirements" you have to set those for yourself. Everyone has their own views on what "dead" is and what is not. For me, a factor would be heavily declining growth and activity. "No vast rapid growth" and "heavily declining growth" are obviously not the same. Of course these are subjective numbers but the former would indicate the fandom is out of its golden era so to speak and the latter would be a state where the community is barely growing at all. I am not saying a fandom is dead once it is out of its "golden era".

Now that we have that all cleared up let me reply to some stuff.

1. I did not say the fandom is dead. I said the brony phenomenon is dead, referring to the period of attention to the fandom. I did say the fandom is dying, and as far as I can tell this seems to be the case from my own subjective view. Attracting new fans or not, I am not seeing any noticeable growth. And even if the participation among fans is still there, there is a noticeable decrease in numbers.

2. It is a numbers game. Of course it is. The percentage threshold I was talking about is not supposed to mean that I see a fandom as dead when only 10% of the fans are left. It's supposed to be an arbitrary number. I am thinking like a sum of all the fans, creations, discussions etc by the fandom. Its activity if you will. Like I said.

3. The convention is growing because the convention is growing, not necessarily because the fandom is. Maybe the brony fandom is growing and all the new fans have just gone under my radar. I don't know. I'm just sharing my observations really. Even if so would be the case, there is in my mind no denying that the community is becoming less relevant and less active, even if fan creations are still being made.

 

Yours truly is and have been a part of many fandoms, I know very well how they work. There's no need to get all upset about it and use passive aggressive phrasing. I have a different opinion than you and that's all there is to it, buddy.

[Buck Testa 5,503]

2 hours ago, Jokuc said:

I do not know nor am I interested what that drama was about, but can you tell me how her personal attacks against a creator makes her *less invested* in the fandom as a whole? Because that is what it seems like you are implying here. To me it looks like you are writing her off as uneducated because she did something bad and you don't like her. I don't agree with your statement of her "shitting on the fandom". The whole video is delivered more like a nostalgic love-letter from my perspective.

As I said, fandoms don't simply die. On paper. There will always be those who stick around no matter the state of the media. I did not say it is dead as soon as there is no "vast rapid growth". A fandom can have its growth slowed down but still be highly relevant and present. What I am saying is that if you are going to judge whether a fandom is "dying", then do so by looking at its overall activity. "Activity" includes fan-made content such as those things you mentioned. As there are no "minimum requirements" you have to set those for yourself. Everyone has their own views on what "dead" is and what is not. For me, a factor would be heavily declining growth and activity. "No vast rapid growth" and "heavily declining growth" are obviously not the same. Of course these are subjective numbers but the former would indicate the fandom is out of its golden era so to speak and the latter would be a state where the community is barely growing at all. I am not saying a fandom is dead once it is out of its "golden era".

Now that we have that all cleared up let me reply to some stuff.

1. I did not say the fandom is dead. I said the brony phenomenon is dead, referring to the period of attention to the fandom. I did say the fandom is dying, and as far as I can tell this seems to be the case from my own subjective view. Attracting new fans or not, I am not seeing any noticeable growth. And even if the participation among fans is still there, there is a noticeable decrease in numbers.

2. It is a numbers game. Of course it is. The percentage threshold I was talking about is not supposed to mean that I see a fandom as dead when only 10% of the fans are left. It's supposed to be an arbitrary number. I am thinking like a sum of all the fans, creations, discussions etc by the fandom. Its activity if you will. Like I said.

3. The convention is growing because the convention is growing, not necessarily because the fandom is. Maybe the brony fandom is growing and all the new fans have just gone under my radar. I don't know. I'm just sharing my observations really. Even if so would be the case, there is in my mind no denying that the community is becoming less relevant and less active, even if fan creations are still being made.

 

Yours truly is and have been a part of many fandoms, I know very well how they work. There's no need to get all upset about it and use passive aggressive phrasing. I have a different opinion than you and that's all there is to it, buddy.

I do see the point people are making about the whole "fandom being dead" thing being inaccurate when you put it like that. As long as SOMEONE is creating pony material and someone is enjoying it then it's still chugging along.  You feel that especially in stuff like Anime, where an anime loses relevance in the broader community within a season nowadays unless it becomes a phenomenon in its own right like One Punch Man or something. There are obscure anime that still have people into them, but they just have a very small following. 



 

[HeavenSunset 1,867]

On 7/22/2020 at 5:20 PM, Buck Testa said:

I'm also noting you're going out of your way to point out that she's, ya know, a Lady, which I'm sure is completely unrelated to why you're so irritated here.

Oh my god, we're seriously doing this?

I don't mean to be attacking but It's likely that the outcome of this will be you calling @King of Canterlot "sexist" and then putting him on ignore like nothing happened, I've noticed your behaviour in the debate symposium, Why is this even a debate with you? He shared his opinion and that's that, there's no need to be so critical.

[King of Canterlot 9,588]

3 hours ago, HeavenSunset said:

Oh my god, we're seriously doing this?

I don't mean to be attacking but It's likely that the outcome of this will be you calling @King of Canterlot "sexist" and then putting him on ignore like nothing happened, I've noticed your behaviour in the debate symposium, Why is this even a debate with you? He shared his opinion and that's that, there's no need to be so critical.

Exactly what I thought, that accusation was pretty unfounded and I think he was just upset that he was loosing the argument so he decide to get offended over nothing. I decided it just wasn't even worth my time trying to reason with the unreasonable. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by King of Canterlot

[Megas 27,064]

Some things in this that rubbed me the wrong way, but there are some stuff with some admitted truth to it

- I wouldn't call the fandom dead, no fandom really dies, but it doesn't have anywhere near the presence it used to have in it's heyday

- Let's be honest here, the fandom did have an effect on the show, including several pandering moments in the show, as well as entire bloody episodes dedicated to them. Heck they even had a couple of toylines aimed more at the fandom.....I'd say it wasn't worth it for Hasbro

- I agree that the show got significantly worse as it went on, which I'd honestly argue played a part in the fandom was losing presence. Heck I was once a staunch defender of the show, and barring some bullshit moments in the first five seasons, I was always one of those people who mocked the analysis community, often with insults like ANALysts and felt like some people were taking the show way too seriously. Season 6 then came and you could pinpoint the exact moment when I began to turn on the show. Around that same time you had many prominent fans publicly distancing themselves from the show

- As for body pillows, I don't see an issue with them as long as they aren't underage characters or explicit. Ultimately dakis are just part of nerd and con-culture in general, and they were obviously innocent enough for the staff to poke fun at it on the show itself(whether this was good or not is up to debate because it proves that the fandom did have an effect on the show)

- Some people are very vocal about appearing on the doc without their permission, and I do think some are very well justified especially if they feel they weren't being put in a good light. At the very least she could have blurred out their faces

- There's tons of fans who still take offense to the show being "for little girls", and I honestly think that's worse. Like they like to talk about how they break gender norms only to go on and act like they're ashamed for liking the show, and would defend themselves being all "NO IT'S GENDER NEUTRAL! DON'T INSULT ME!". Like damn, at least be consistent

- There's some real piece of shit people in the fandom, let's not deny it

- I like to joke about how bronies are just "furries in denial", and I know there are people in the fandom who don't identify as furries, but seriously now there's some noticeably large overlap

- De Lancie's Brony Documentary was garbage and really made him look bad. The staff were clearly invested with him as they really wanted to bring him back with his character, but between that doc, his supposedly dismissal at the fandom, Discord playing a big part in some of the show's lowest points, and the fact that he really didn't seem interested and just wanted the paycheck, I really don't think it was worth it

[Sparklefan1234 161,870]

14 hours ago, Megas said:

- De Lancie's Brony Documentary was garbage and really made him look bad. The staff were clearly invested with him as they really wanted to bring him back with his character, but between that doc, his supposedly dismissal at the fandom, Discord playing a big part in some of the show's lowest points, and the fact that he really didn't seem interested and just wanted the paycheck, I really don't think it was worth it

 

What you wrote here makes me wish even more that Discord was a one-off character instead of a recurring character. 

[Splashee 28,537]

I liked this video. It covered a few new things that I had missed, but also took up the parts I was very upset about in the early days. Very honest and well researched, by one of the legends of the Bronies.

[Sepul-Coloratura 756]

Good to see a different perspective of the topic. It seemed like every Brony documentaries before were talking about the similar thing in a similar way.

[North Star 4,540]

Jenny from FiW! Loved that show. Let's see what she says.

"The bronies coined the term... clopping.*

Ok so had to replay a segment and was wincing when I heard this in what is generally a fairly light-hearted take on bronies: "I speculate that maybe in a broad generalised sense men are not socialised to recognise uncomplicated unsexual fondness for a female character. They liked the ponies for a little while but then their brains thought 'but can I have sex with it?'." Erk.... 'Men think X' + 'some men think some X is attractive so men think all X is attractive' + 'men find all X attractive so men want to have sex with all X'. Hopefully she's just being sweeping here because it's funnier and snappier to do that when talking about attraction (she was a parody artist afterall) but I am beginning to understand some of the replies on here   

Horsefamous!

Yay Friendship is Witchcraft! "Whatever happened to your old torso!" 

"Well hoe down apple barbecue." 

Ridiculous noises.

Conventions

Omg the person who impersonated Jenny! I heard of that. Crazy.

Aw pony hat convention panel nostalgia of looking at unblinking pony eyes...

"Bronies also like to carry things." ok she definitely just likes her sweeping statements. She's just being silly :p 

Fallout Equestria. Never got into that.

Ooh the pony concert :3 omg bronycon was huge. Unfortunately I was too British to attend it   The fire and the don't jump thing!  

Organic parts of cons is true. Only went to a few, but the random Karoake that broke out at BUCK was the best part of that con.

 The Bronydoc! I loved that thing!  I met some of the UK bronies that were featured. Aw Tara does love her fans.  Heh John de Lancie hates bronies because he was rude in the green room. She friggin loves these sweeping statements. I suspect the guy is very over fans though. And ofc the doc's theme about autism becomes the explanation for the entire phenomenon  Damn that Jan Studios animation was good though. Wait, does she think non-bronies are gonna watch her video? "Don't see the doc if you don't know about bronies!?" Later she talks about news-media and podcasters! I don't know if she's serious or not.

Ah the old chestnut of previous generations  Ack with the generalisations 'They were less palatable to adult men.' The previous gens are mixed but yes the media was less popular with kids/parents. The toys  seem pretty invincible for some reason :p 

Oh come on about bronies affecting the toy-line. Is she joking here? A) Nothing can affect the toy-line. B.) Funko was a license! Like the CCG cards or IDW comics! Kids don't want the CCG cards because they don't fit the toy brand. She is clearly not interested or knowledgeable about this stuff (I mean I don't know that much about it but cooome on).

Erk with sweeping statements in sensitive areas - the people asserting they are not gay in the doc are not being homophobic. The outfacing pony brand is very pink and that flamboyant sparkly pink stuff connects with gay culture (I have found a few pre-brony gay 80s fans - I only wish they made more G1-3 PMVs  ) . Gay culture does like to queer around with masculinity a bit and in the USA etc it is well known to embrace some flamboyant sparkliness. The people in the doc are distancing themselves from that. 

Back to saucy content at conventions. I'm beginning to wonder if she seriously has an issue with this? The child characters she displayed were not drawn as saucily! Eek this is what happens when you make sweeping statements. Some body pillows being saucy does not mean all are, so just because you have a canonically underage character on a body pillow does not make that a saucy portrayal. 

And now MA Larson and memes at conventions  aw. "Stupid energy"  

The fandom 

I am Jenny. I say things like "The con bubble has popped" and back them up by saying "Smaller conventions have closed." :p It's like an Iron Will maxim: "Why be accurate, if you can absolute!" 

And now gay furries? Gay furries who embrace outcasts? And organise conventions!? 

I am also Jenny. I say things like "The Brony fandom is dead" when I mean, "The Brony fandom has less 'stupid energy' than it did and its cons are apparently run by gay furries and attended by people who want to make friends."  

 

[Props Valroa 26,043]

Honestly I never went to and will never go to the brony cons. If there is one nearby and after the pandemic, I might.

[Paianis 488]

So I first watched this video a month ago...hence my very late showing in this thread.

Jenny's script is obviously written to be entertaining...occasionally at the expense of accuracy, and TBH it is a fun video, which it kinda has to be for something more than an hour long that non-bronies might watch. Most organisers of the bigger cons were furries, that's true, but she implies at various points that nearly all cloppers were furries as well, which kinda rings false. Some of them might have been drawing from the anime fandom's sexual content aspect if they were part of that sphere of influence, they might even have gravitated to it after pony. Still, I think it's a very good video overall.

My background is that I was technically a furry (not knowing the fandom existed) through 2010 at 13 years of age, after which I suppressed interests in that area. A few years ago I discovered the furry fandom and I'm content identifying with it for the time being.