Twilight's views of friendships are flawed

[FlareGun45 2,221]

Twilight wouldn've gotten far without her friends. She is seen as THE icon of friendship in Equestria and not the others, and even though she IS a good friend - she doesn't seem to be good enough for the title, at least not alone. 

She looks at friendship as facts and something of religious significance. She only knows friendship HER way, and looks like she's using friendship to increase her ego and title. What was the point of building a School of Friendship if friendship is meant to be learned by experience, and not a classroom?

That's pretty much why she wasn't able to win Cozy Glow over. Twilight never really asked her what her problem is. Maybe her friendship problems are deeper than her understanding. You think that maybe she'd ATTEMPT to reform Tirek by getting his brother to rekindle with him? Or have the changelings just talk to Chrysalis? Heck, she doesn't even seem to understand Spike fully - she didn't even see him being slapsticked from underneath her very nose, or figure out his insecurity issue to even this day.

Twilight is capable of being a better friend, and she is willing to learn, which is good. But she does still has alot to learn, at least in my opinion. I still don't think she quite understands what friendship is about. Fluttershy, Pinkie, Spike, and Starlight seem to have a better understanding of it since they're more open-minded. Twilight is too closed minded.

[Megas 27,850]

I blame this more on the show losing focus and wanting to be big and epic in later seasons 

[FlareGun45 2,221]

9 minutes ago, Megas said:

I blame this more on the show losing focus and wanting to be big and epic in later seasons 

She became just like Celestia. Twilight coulda been so much more. She coulda been better than her. 

[Goat-kun 2,530]

Of course. Friendship & Harmony of FIM are not exactly friendship and harmony. A basic anime protagonist would be able to redeem FIM villains. I suppose the Princess of Friendship is more trash than some degenerate weeb who got isekai'd by a truck.

[ExplosionMare 18,097]

I agree, I mean, just look at Moondancer. She practically forced her to come out of her shell. She could've just apologized and left it at that.

[Jesse Terrence 2,969]

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

I suppose the Princess of Friendship is more trash than some degenerate weeb who got isekai'd by a truck.

Hey, I understood that reference!

[Misty Shadow 7,985]

In the show writers' minds, Twilight understood friendship better than anyone else and the villains she faced in the last season were irredeemable. I wouldn't blame the writing of Twilight's character for the examples you gave, that's more to do with the writing of the villains and the whole School of Friendship thing. It could've been better. 

[FlareGun45 2,221]

11 minutes ago, CloudMistDragon said:

In the show writers' minds, Twilight understood friendship better than anyone else and the villains she faced in the last season were irredeemable. I wouldn't blame the writing of Twilight's character for the examples you gave, that's more to do with the writing of the villains and the whole School of Friendship thing. It could've been better. 

No, I don't blame Twilight's writing. This could be a part of her story arc! If the comics could expand with this idea....

[Neoeryn 196]

While I do sorta blame the writers as they were running out of ideas (and it somewhat showed), the show was more realistic with the irredeemable villains than anything. They showed that some people don't change, or they don't want to. Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy all proved that. I've made multiple friends like that and had to leave them because of it.
It wasn't that she was blinded, or that she was weak, it's that she just chose the wrong individuals to try and help, because she believed everyone could change, because she experienced the same thing so many times, and she usually forceded others (Moondancer) to make friends, even if they weren't comfortable or wanted to be alone.
I do believe that caused her to try too hard, but I know she meant well.

Now I will admit, the school thing is pretty wack. She spent 7 whole seasons learning and almost died multiple times in the process, and she just gives it out for free. 
Now, I do appreciate her trying to spread friendship across Equestria and beyond, but it can't be explicitly taught like that. However, with the student 6, we'd seen they didn't learn through the classrooms, they learned through experience and hardships with each other; being pulled away from each other and seeing how bad it had caused their families to fight, and the fandom seems to forget that most of the time.

[Evil Pink One 13,517]

I think twilight being flawed is perfect..... I wouldn'tve likedbher if she was perfect.... Lookat what happened to jesus...

[Brony Number 42 10,075]

1 hour ago, Neoeryn said:

They showed that some people don't change, or they don't want to. Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy all proved that

I agree with this. I disagree with the point of this whole topic. You can always find flaws in somepony and then use that as a way to invalidate everything they do.

I think Twilight did a fine enough job. Maybe you can't solve all problems with Friendship. Friendship is almost treated like a physical force. The show is called Friendship Is Magic, in the same way you might say Heat Is Energy. Like it is a force of nature. If that is the case, then perhaps nopony can have perfect mastery of it. Let Twilight be the ruler she is, even if she isn't perfect. 

If she was perfect then people would complain that she is a Mary Sue.

[Evil Pink One 13,517]

13 minutes ago, Metal Brony 42 said:

I agree with this. I disagree with the point of this whole topic. You can always find flaws in somepony and then use that as a way to invalidate everything they do.

I think Twilight did a fine enough job. Maybe you can't solve all problems with Friendship. Friendship is almost treated like a physical force. The show is called Friendship Is Magic, in the same way you might say Heat Is Energy. Like it is a force of nature. If that is the case, then perhaps nopony can have perfect mastery of it. Let Twilight be the ruler she is, even if she isn't perfect. 

If she was perfect then people would complain that she is a Mary Sue.

Preach!

[Jesse Terrence 2,969]

The princess of friendcringe, I'd dub it.

Honestly, that thing didn't add anything worth watching to the show. As a matter of fact it took a lot away. Got on the way for the show's natural development. Forced and cringe.

Is no secret the princess thing was just a marketing stunt to sell the princess twilight toyset. Hasbro felt pressured by Mattel's monster high and they attempted both to sell princess twilight as a last resort given they didn't plan to have FiM go for long and planed to just let pony die out with a boom in hopes they could profit enough, and then launched eqg to try to take part of the odd highschool setting Mattel had reopened for preteens. The show suffered big time from such stunts and writing spiraled down till glimmy was used on season 5 finale. Unfortunately it spiraled down again with school of friendship, but that's another story.

For me, Twilight is a librarian unicorn that lives in a treebrary. What came next was a souless clone.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Jesse Terrence

[Crunchypuff 152]

I've not watched all of the last few seasons (yet) but I think somewhere around the end, the writers must have changed things around or something, we went from the beginning where Twilight was sent to Ponyville to learn about friendship specifically because it isn't something that can be taught in schools to...a literal school of friendship? And we have the elements of harmony working together to spread friendship, which is then turned into just Princess Twilight at the lead, with the others still around but in the background. I'm not sure how the princess of friendship is expected to accomplish anything without the help of her friends, it seems like that was the point of the entire series up to then. 

As for redeeming villains, it does make sense that not everyone is willing to go along with the protagonist's views, I get that, but it does seem a bit disappointing to show that some people are just bad at their core in a kids show, whether true or not. And some of the villains I wished were redeemed, especially Cozy Glow, being a literal child and all. It's a shame to just give up on someone in such a normally positive show.

[Evil Pink One 13,517]

I don't know.... I think they already planned twilight to be an alicorn from the beginning... And a toy company not marketing toys is the dumbest company id ever see. So yeah.... Dont dig in too deep... Its just a puddle  . Hasbro making conspiracy to sell us toys?... Pfft.... You gotta be kidding me its no conspiracy. they want you to buy their toys.  They ain't hiding that. What's so wrong about twilight ascending? I was quite happy she became an alicorn, fullfilling her "master"  expectations and role. If twilight herself said she was unhappy. Then .... I guess that would be a very good plot.... But shedid her role... And saw her hardship and time skipped to show a beautiful equestria she has made... Well i think its beautiful... Much more better than our world... that's for sure....

We need a twilight in this world.

Moments ago, Kujamih said:

I don't know.... I think they already planned twilight to be an alicorn from the beginning... And a toy company not marketing toys is the dumbest company id ever see. So yeah.... Dont dig in too deep... Its just a puddle  . Hasbro making conspiracy to sell us toys?... Pfft.... You gotta be kidding me its no conspiracy. they want you to buy their toys.  They ain't hiding that. What's so wrong about twilight ascending? I was quite happy she became an alicorn, fullfilling her "master"  expectations and role. If twilight herself said she was unhappy. Then .... I guess that would be a very good plot.... But shedid her role... And saw her hardship and time skipped to show a beautiful equestria she has made... Well i think its beautiful... Much more better than our world... that's for sure....

We need a twilight in this world.

Oh yeah this is a react from @Jesse Terrence and the ones who hate season3 onwards... And this is just my side and just having a debate is all. We still cool right?

[Jesse Terrence 2,969]

8 minutes ago, Kujamih said:

I don't know.... I think they already planned twilight to be an alicorn from the beginning... And a toy company not marketing toys is the dumbest company id ever see. So yeah.... Dont dig in too deep... Its just a puddle  . Hasbro making conspiracy to sell us toys?... Pfft.... You gotta be kidding me its no conspiracy. they want you to buy their toys.  They ain't hiding that. What's so wrong about twilight ascending? I was quite happy she became an alicorn, fullfilling her "master"  expectations and role. If twilight herself said she was unhappy. Then .... I guess that would be a very good plot.... But shedid her role... And saw her hardship and time skipped to show a beautiful equestria she has made... Well i think its beautiful... Much more better than our world... that's for sure....

We need a twilight in this world.

Oh yeah this is a react from @Jesse Terrence and the ones who hate season3 onwards... And this is just my side and just having a debate is all. We still cool right?

Sometimes I wonder how do you do to not make sense and act cool at the same time

Edited February 25, 2021 by Jesse Terrence

[Megas 27,850]

tbf, most of my ire is more towards S6 onward(even then, I still like S7 and 8)

[FlareGun45 2,221]

5 hours ago, Metal Brony 42 said:

I agree with this. I disagree with the point of this whole topic. You can always find flaws in somepony and then use that as a way to invalidate everything they do.

I think Twilight did a fine enough job. Maybe you can't solve all problems with Friendship. Friendship is almost treated like a physical force. The show is called Friendship Is Magic, in the same way you might say Heat Is Energy. Like it is a force of nature. If that is the case, then perhaps nopony can have perfect mastery of it. Let Twilight be the ruler she is, even if she isn't perfect. 

If she was perfect then people would complain that she is a Mary Sue.

It's not that her not being perfect is a problem - it's that her flaws are just supported and followed by everyone who's not evil - expected to be automatically correct. Not one good-hearted person disagrees with her. 

[EpicEnergy 23,230]

That's an interesting and good analysis of Twilight, questioning her perspective of friendship and pointing out some flaws in it, though several comments here have misused it as a basis to hate on Twilight's character and even the show itself.

Anyways, I do agree that Twilight's view of friendships is flawed, but the conclusion that Twilight is too closed-minded is an incorrect conclusion. Twilight reformed many villains, I have no need to name them since it is obvious, and that alone is enough to conclude that she has an open-mind. Someone with a close-mind would have rejected the villains and sent them to Tartarus without any hesitation. The OP  argues that Twilight was unable to redeem Chrysalis, Tirek, and Cozy Glow because she was too close-minded. This is flawed, however. For one, Twilight was there when Starlight tried to redeem Chrysalis, showing that Chrysalis had no intention of becoming redeemed. Additionally, Cozy Glow was given many chances to change her view of friendship since she attended the very school that taught it, but instead she used that knowledge for corrupt intentions. Even Tirek had a chance to prove that he was good before he attempted to steal magic from Equestrians, yet he failed and was sent to Tartarus as a result. My point is, these three irredeemable villains aren't victims because Twilight didn't explicitly attempt to reform them, they are criminals that have rejected redemption and therefore Twilight isn't close-minded for not directly attempting to redeem them.

[Fluttershutter 2,583]

12 hours ago, FlareGun45 said:

She only knows friendship HER way, and looks like she's using friendship to increase her ego and title.

She never asked for a title. She's always just wanted to learn as much as she can.

 

12 hours ago, FlareGun45 said:

What was the point of building a School of Friendship if friendship is meant to be learned by experience, and not a classroom?

Cause she's Twilight. She loves school and classrooms.

[Evil Pink One 13,517]

6 hours ago, Jesse Terrence said:

Sometimes I wonder how do you do to not make sense and act cool at the same time

[Will Guide 21,364]

21 hours ago, FlareGun45 said:

Or have the changelings just talk to Chrysalis?

you saw how the Changelings were in fear of their "Queen" especially when she try to suck the love out of Thorax. Plus Chrysalis had several opportunities to reform herself, starting from when Starlight offered her hoof in forgiveness but she never takes any of them? it was obvious more and more the show goes on with Chrysalis that she doesn't really care about anyone but herself, power over others and revenge. It was obvious she could no longer be reasoned with.

21 hours ago, FlareGun45 said:

You think that maybe she'd ATTEMPT to reform Tirek by getting his brother to rekindle with him?

It was practically stated that the brother left Equestria long time ago. how do you think she would be able to find his brother to get to rekindle with Tirek?

21 hours ago, FlareGun45 said:

That's pretty much why she wasn't able to win Cozy Glow over. Twilight never really asked her what her problem is. Maybe her friendship problems are deeper than her understanding.

Cozy Glow already had signs of being a psychopathic child, so no matter what Twilight did she would never going to win her over even if she asked. Have you ever considered that a possibility? Child or not, she proved what a terrible person she is and doesn't deserve my sympathy.

The Terrible Trio were proof that no matter how hard you try, there are some people in the world who are terrible and do not want to be redeemed, much like how there's a lot of people in the real world who are sociopathic, psychopathic, and just plain mean to everyone

Much like the show itself, of course they were going to be flaws in Twilight's views of Friendship. But no one is absolutely perfect. That was the whole point on the "(We're Not) Flawless" song, one of the good things in an otherwise poorly executed episode.

21 hours ago, FlareGun45 said:

What was the point of building a School of Friendship if friendship is meant to be learned by experience, and not a classroom?

I'm getting sick of the "School of Friendship with a bad idea" declaration. the School of Friendship was actually a nice place to encourage people to come into one place and mingle with each other! That's how it happened with me growing up in my school.

[Megas 27,850]

I mean, the concept of building a school revolving entirely on the concept of friendship was really flawed. Even more so when Celestia explicitly says that was the reason why she sent Twi to Ponyville in the first place. If Twilight just wanted to build a school because she loved knowledge that would have been fine, or if the student six were just personal students to the girls too. Even if they wanted to push for the diversity aspect of S8 they didn’t need a “school of friendship”, just make a regular ass school. 
 

Also they never should have forced the rest of the six as teachers