Should/Is There a Measurement of Magic?

[Dreadmallon 353]

With flight abilities (speed, notably), it is measured by wingpower, as shown in Hurricane Fluttershy. What about magic?

[Random User 249]

MP.

[Typhoid Libby 1,265]

Thaum.

 

 

The thaum is the basic unit of magic. The thaum is made up of so called resons (lit. thing-ies), which are themselves made up of at least five flavours (including up, down, sideways, sex appeal and peppermint). One thaum is defined to be the amount of magic which is needed to create a white pigeon or three billiard balls.

[Marshmallow 1,134]

Thaum.

 

 

The thaum is the basic unit of magic. The thaum is made up of so called resons (lit. thing-ies), which are themselves made up of at least five flavours (including up, down, sideways, sex appeal and peppermint). One thaum is defined to be the amount of magic which is needed to create a white pigeon or three billiard balls.

 

And of course, it can be measured with a thaumometer, and regular SI Prefixes apply (e.g. millithaum, kilothaum).

[Typhoid Libby 1,265]

And of course, it can be measured with a thaumometer, and regular SI Prefixes apply (e.g. millithaum, kilothaum).

 

That's newwizardry.

Every respectable wizard uses Imperial measurements since its by definition more "Bling".

 

It ain't wizard-y unless it has a shiny knob or copious amounts of sparkly powder.

[Silverwisp the Bard 2,353]

It's Prattchet day on the forums!!

I dont think theres a measurement in Equestria, since the kind of magic different Unicorns posses are so diverse (diamond locating, creating mustaches, illusions ect.) and pure magic users (Twilight, presumably Starswirl) are to rare to introduce a system.

The school for gifted unicorns seems to be measure magical talent in the number of spell a unicorn mastered.

[murkyx 904]

Considering the diverse range of spells and talents within the use of magic, unicorns are probably graded by magic through the amount of spells they know, the most complex spells they can achieve, and how long they can maintain them.

 

And they are usually specialized in a certain spell. Some unicorns have a great magic for seeking, (Like Rarity) others for shielding and protecting, (Like Shining Armor) and even Celestia appears to have a preference for light and passive magic. (Explaining her loss against Chrysalis due to aggressive magic not being her strong suit) The only all-around unicorn that we know of is Twilight, and she's exceptional.

 

So in measuring a unicorn's ability, I would focus on what they are talented in magic-wise, and how advanced they are through the variety of similar or corresponding spells they know, their complexity, and the unicorn's stamina. It's probably what they focus on in Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns, though it appears that they also teach a base curriculum of standard spells along with it, considering the entrance exam is hatching a dragon egg, which I assume is medium-level magic.

[I used to be a stranger 7,989]

Coming up with an arbitrary metric just so we can make "Over 9000" jokes about the Princesses or Twilight is exactly as arbitrary as a name for such a unit would be.

[SoonVindicated 71]

It can be said that efforts to quantify magic into something that makes tangible sense has been something of an ongoing struggle for game developers, and mystics. For this reason we have many different ideas of what constitutes magic and it's measurement. We have MP,Mana, Spirit, and a few other things in terms of value. We also have ways of describing how to increase that value such as intelligence being the main attribute that increases our capacity to cast magic spells, and what spells we can learn. This is all done with the idea that magic is an intellectual pursuit, and as such understanding and intuition (which is based on a feeling of where things you already know converge into a single answer that is felt rather than known) are the key points of reference. For this reason we would first need to understand the founding principle of magic in the MLP universe before we should place a label of measurement onto it. In the case of Twilight Sparkle, we can see how intelligence might influence her magical abilities. Yet we can also see how knowledge about a variety of subjects may also have attributed to that. Then we have Celestia, who seems to have a lot of wisdom and power, taken from her abilities. Yet when we have seen her use magic, it doesn't seem to be effective. I am thinking in terms of the Chrysalis The Changeling Queen, but this could be argued that Chrysalis drew on the power of love in order to defeat Celestia's vast amount of power and wisdom she has gained through the ages.

 

Which leads to another idea. What if love is the quintessential core of magic? Maybe it is instead the power or driving force behind the intelligence and knowledge of the magic user itself. Either way we can talk theories all we want, but finding a real answer to this may not be within our capabilities. For now it will be an enigmatic principle, but a fun one to talk about nonetheless. At least I have fun talking about these things. It should all be for playful discussion, and shouldn't be taken too seriously.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Waifles

[Inkfeather 597]

I believe that before we begin to measure magical power we need a system to categorize and translate this pwer to different types of magical output. You can't measure healing magic and harmful magic by the same system unless you categorize them in a system where they will translate th needed values of power for the different spells.

 

One could determine how hard the spell it to cast, but because of the different natures of magic, a harmful spell is hard to cast for someone skilled in healing magic. This would create fake results in determining the difficulty of the spell cast. Also, we can not be sure that all spells are cast in the same way, healing magic might take more finesse and less raw power than harmful magic, or a destruction spell compared to a curse might change in values of casting.

We can't exactly create a measuring system for magical power unless we create a system for combining the skill requirement, the power requirement and a way to ignore natural abilities of casting, say, someone specialised in plant magic might test both harmful and healing since none of the are in her category. This would result in a proper measured amoutn of data to determine difficulty as well as power requirement, adding these two together might give useful data for a measuring system.

 

Again, we have no idea how magic works, we only know that it does. We can't compare it to a force like wingpower, since that system measures something in a physical nature, through known physical laws. Laws that magic are not part of in our understanding.

[RazzyJam 1,519]

I dont think of measurement, but I think of types. Like we have AC, DC, and static electricity, there is Love, Freindship, and plain Magic in Equestria. (correspondingly of course)

 

If you are going to start anywhere with this question, I believe the place to start is here

Edited June 8, 2012 by WingedRatchet

[NavelColt 22,876]

Wingpower is a singular, physical thing. It can be measured easily. Magic is various, and differs greatly depending on the creature, and even unicorns vary on the types of magic they are best at. I don't have a measurement idea, because I don't think you can clump it all under a single umbrella measurement term.

[Random User 249]

Which leads to another idea. What if love is the quintessential core of magic? Maybe it is instead the power or driving force behind the intelligence and knowledge of the magic user itself. Either way we can talk theories all we want, but finding a real answer to this may not be within our capabilities. For now it will be an enigmatic principle, but a fun one to talk about nonetheless. At least I have fun talking about these things. It should all be for playful discussion, and shouldn't be taken too seriously.

 

If we're speaking in general and not just the show, then love being based on the feelings of love would not make sense. For example, Zeromus in Final Fantasy IV was a being birthed of nothing but seething hatred. Actually, when I think of it, Nightmare Moon was birthed of fury and anger, and was still very strong with magic. I think that emotions have a powerful effect on magic, though. Your Crystalis point strengthens that theory. Emotions or adrenaline can do a lot to effect on strength, even in magic.

[SoonVindicated 71]

If we're speaking in general and not just the show, then love being based on the feelings of love would not make sense. For example, Zeromus in Final Fantasy IV was a being birthed of nothing but seething hatred. Actually, when I think of it, Nightmare Moon was birthed of fury and anger, and was still very strong with magic. I think that emotions have a powerful effect on magic, though. Your Crystalis point strengthens that theory. Emotions or adrenaline can do a lot to effect on strength, even in magic.

 

I wasn't speaking in general. I was speaking in terms of the show. Crossing different universes who may have entirely different physics won't help in finding an answer. Canonically, Nightmare Moon is Luna. Luna had great power, but it was jealousy and hatred that made her become Nightmare Moon. She was defeated of course on two separate occasions. The reasons for this might be because her hate had weakened her. To me, it isn't an indication of strength.

 

Yet she was still Luna deep inside, and that Luna still had love, which became apparent once she was reborn. All things considered, if Nightmare Moon had derived her power only from hate. There would be no Luna, only Nightmare Moon. This is how I make sense of this. Naturally I know that in Anime strong emotions=power, but I would like to think that love is stronger than hate. That might be where I am getting these ideas from.

[RBDash 176]

Thaum.

 

 

The thaum is the basic unit of magic. The thaum is made up of so called resons (lit. thing-ies), which are themselves made up of at least five flavours (including up, down, sideways, sex appeal and peppermint). One thaum is defined to be the amount of magic which is needed to create a white pigeon or three billiard balls.

 

Thaumcraft! Whenever thaum is brought up I can't help but think of the Minecraft mod.

 

In any unicorn magic measuring system, each pony should have 2 measurements. 1 is the cutie mark magic, such as Raritys gem-finding spell or Shining Armors shield spell, and the other is their general measurement (such as telekinesis in most unicorns, or Twilight/Luna/Celestias vast abilities for any spell).

[Random User 249]

Yet she was still Luna deep inside, and that Luna still had love, which became apparent once she was reborn. All things considered, if Nightmare Moon had derived her power only from hate. There would be no Luna, only Nightmare Moon. This is how I make sense of this. Naturally I know that in Anime strong emotions=power, but I would like to think that love is stronger than hate. That might be where I am getting these ideas from.

 

I dunno. I always thought of Nightmare Moon as a sort of split personality. While the sentiment that love is stronger than hatred is arguable, I believe that both can be just as strong as the other. I suppose it would require further research to see. But I do still stand firm by the belief that no matter what emotion, if it is strong enough, it will effect one's magic prowess.

[KakeiTheWolf 652]

Magic would probably be measured in MP, or Magicka Power, which is a tier division system of white, blue, red, and black magic that denotes the magickal capacity remaining in a unicorn's "Pool" of magic (Which can be juctioned, apparently) required to use a specific spell.

 

Magic capacity in a sense of the total amount of magic in them would be measured using Magicka, both of which determine the size of a "Mana Pool" in terms of a quantitative measurement of arcane particles which would consist of metaphysical energy that is essential to an atom as a kaon is to subatomic particles. That is, it would be consisting of purely energetic quarks (Ones without any mass at all), which are unquarks (Much like unstars are to stars in a three tiered universal plane consisting of a X, Y, and Z axis for the 4th, 5th, and 6th dimensions).

 

So, the strength of magic would be MP, and the capacity would be Magicka.

 

Sources: Darkstone, Oblivion, OR, Final Fantasy I to Final Fantasy X, and a well wasted childhood.

[SoonVindicated 71]

I dunno. I always thought of Nightmare Moon as a sort of split personality. While the sentiment that love is stronger than hatred is arguable, I believe that both can be just as strong as the other. I suppose it would require further research to see. But I do still stand firm by the belief that no matter what emotion, if it is strong enough, it will effect one's magic prowess.

 

The idea that Nightmare Moon is a split personality is not an uncommon one. Any discussion on this would of course remain unsubstantiated, and based entirely on personal truths. I can also understand that Love and Hate would be seen as equal forces. Though this may only because they are seen as a duality of each other, and that these dualities must be equal in order for there to be balance. Light and Darkness, Good and Evil, Right and Wrong, etc. However, perhaps what is a duality is merely human conceptualization of ideas in order to structure them in a way that makes sense. That there may be no duality in truth. Rather everything just exists, and there can always be one without the other. Either way I have no definite answers for this, but I can understand where you are coming from. I think your ideas carry a degree of validity, but it is in what way that I am unsure.

[Random User 249]

The idea that Nightmare Moon is a split personality is not an uncommon one. Any discussion on this would of course remain unsubstantiated, and based entirely on personal truths. I can also understand that Love and Hate would be seen as equal forces. Though this may only because they are seen as a duality of each other, and that these dualities must be equal in order for there to be balance. Light and Darkness, Good and Evil, Right and Wrong, etc. However, perhaps what is a duality is merely human conceptualization of ideas in order to structure them in a way that makes sense. That there may be no duality in truth. Rather everything just exists, and there can always be one without the other. Either way I have no definite answers for this, but I can understand where you are coming from. I think your ideas carry a degree of validity, but it is in what way that I am unsure.

 

I suppose I am taking a more general view again. The canon My Little Pony universe hasn't given much explanation regarding how magic works in their realm, which makes it hard to come to any concrete conclusions. Hatred in the real world is a driving force for a lot of things, including the development of new weaponry and more wars and various ways to kill each other. Love on the other hand, can drive a man insane, push them to do many a thing people would consider ridiculous, and even lie to themselves about things they know true.

 

I have experienced both strong hatred and strong love, and both were very powerful feelings. I suppose that's where I'm coming from more than the whole "good vs. evil" deal.

[MVC NVMXD JVRXD 2,406]

The measurement system for magic?: MAGIC.

[cuteycindyhoney 13,283]

Thaum.

 

 

The thaum is the basic unit of magic. The thaum is made up of so called resons (lit. thing-ies), which are themselves made up of at least five flavours (including up, down, sideways, sex appeal and peppermint). One thaum is defined to be the amount of magic which is needed to create a white pigeon or three billiard balls.

 

If Wizards succeed in splitting the Thaum, it could tear the trousers of time! Ponder Stibbons must be stopped!

(or at least distracted for a while)

[SoonVindicated 71]

I suppose I am taking a more general view again. The canon My Little Pony universe hasn't given much explanation regarding how magic works in their realm, which makes it hard to come to any concrete conclusions. Hatred in the real world is a driving force for a lot of things, including the development of new weaponry and more wars and various ways to kill each other. Love on the other hand, can drive a man insane, push them to do many a thing people would consider ridiculous, and even lie to themselves about things they know true.

 

I have experienced both strong hatred and strong love, and both were very powerful feelings. I suppose that's where I'm coming from more than the whole "good vs. evil" deal.

 

Yes perhaps, but what if these things that are said to be motivated by hatred for others is also motivated by love for oneself or ones own people. I know what you are talking about how love and hate can be prime motivators, especially in our own world. Though a crazy man who is driven by love, may not be driven by love itself, but perhaps other things such as insecurities or even dementia. It is often said that love is blind, but I don't believe this. Infatuation is blind, to the willing. Though if love in it's purest form is the truth set free.

 

What I am trying to say is that many of things we see in the context of hate and love may in fact be other things entirely. It just so happens that these two are also involved. Hatred and ignorance tend to go hand in hand, but they are separate things. If these strong emotions can be a source of magic whether destructive or creative. We have to distill them to their most base elements in order for even a vague conclusion to be drawn.

 

Though still I can see how your experiences have shaped your ideas. I don't disagree in truth, but in contrast I must ask questions. In this way my own ideas are shaped. Though I feel it is of utmost importance to ask questions, and even question the basis of how we perceive.

[callmebrony 16]

With flight abilities (speed, notably), it is measured by wingpower, as shown in Hurricane Fluttershy. What about magic?

 

omg i love ur pony hes so cool

[Random User 249]

Yes perhaps, but what if these things that are said to be motivated by hatred for others is also motivated by love for oneself or ones own people. I know what you are talking about how love and hate can be prime motivators, especially in our own world. Though a crazy man who is driven by love, may not be driven by love itself, but perhaps other things such as insecurities or even dementia. It is often said that love is blind, but I don't believe this. Infatuation is blind, to the willing. Though if love in it's purest form is the truth set free.

 

What I am trying to say is that many of things we see in the context of hate and love may in fact be other things entirely. It just so happens that these two are also involved. Hatred and ignorance tend to go hand in hand, but they are separate things. If these strong emotions can be a source of magic whether destructive or creative. We have to distill them to their most base elements in order for even a vague conclusion to be drawn.

 

Though still I can see how your experiences have shaped your ideas. I don't disagree in truth, but in contrast I must ask questions. In this way my own ideas are shaped. Though I feel it is of utmost importance to ask questions, and even question the basis of how we perceive.

 

Of course, asking questions is the only way to make progress in a conversation, and on a larger scale, society.

 

I have a feeling our takes on this topic will often disagree, and ones thoughts on both love and hate and everything concerning it are going to be highly subjective. This is how we perceive things, and perhaps neither of us are correct, or maybe both of us are correct. As far as we know, we will likely never have a solid answer on this subject, but rather our ideas and the ideas of another to consider.

 

More on topic again, let's say I hate a certain group of people blindly for no reason other than that they're there. Perhaps I was simply told at a young age that this certain group was terrible. So I assault that group in pure malice. That would be hatred stemmed from past interactions with someone else's hatred. I do not think love can be the basis of every other emotion, but that our pasts shape our feelings and emotions towards other things. I suppose that one's past and personality could also have an effect on their magic. Maybe. Again, further research is required that is simply unattainable unfortunately. I truly wish we could study unicorn magic to see how much our thoughts on this are valid.

[Scritches 91]

It would interesting to see if/how they would denote that in the show. My idea is that it is measured in terms defined by Star Swirl the Bearded.

 

It could be starswirls( ss ), swirls( sw ), beards( b )...who knows it might even be "Da Magicks".

 

*EDIT* What if they are measured by "friendship levels"? After all the essence of friendship is an actual magical power source in their world.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Leatherneck