Christian bronies: meet, greet, and mingle!

[PastelBread 147]

Fourth generation Seventh Day Adventist here! It's great to know there are more Christians here.

[I used to be a stranger 7,994]

This post has been redacted by the author.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Blue

[Steel Accord 6,660]

@@Blue,

 

Okay, that is actually a much clearer answer that I can understand. What I do find ironic though is that, both of us having referenced things as diverse as the Avengers to Star Wars to Team Fortress 2, we both find meaning and pull wisdom from our entertainment. I don't mean to sound like some special snowflake, but what you say actually distracts people from introspection has been just as much a spiritual guide to me as going to Church.

 

I've actually grown closer to God because of this show, it's friendship lessons prompting me to look inward and revalue how I interact with other people, and by extent, God. My best friend and I have long since examined and debated the merits of the Jedi and Sith code.

 

One thing I find infuriatingly hypocritical is when people who are devout fans of Lord of the Rings, then spin on their heels and curse the existence of Christianity, a religion that infuses Tolkien's work from it's mythology to it's themes. Or more recently, Avatar, which would not exist without Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist, and Shinto philosophy; only for them to once again call for the destruction of organized religion.

 

I suppose then the only pertinent question is, what can we do? As Christians and as people of faith in general? What can we do to turn back the tide? Beyond "leading by example" I mean, something more socially proactive to show the modern Christian is not a homophobic, elitist, luddite?

Edited November 10, 2015 by Steel Accord

[LittleMac 3,085]

Fourth generation Seventh Day Adventist here! It's great to know there are more Christians here.

Hiya, great to meet you here

[Sunwalker 981]

So I have a question for you guys. Someone told me something about religiousness declining the world over, it was more off hand not a hard statement but it did get me thinking on the subject.

 

It's true religion was once virtually ubiquitous at least socially which isn't the case anymore; and while a part of me thinks this change is a good thing as I don't want anyone bullied into faith and buried beneath a truncheon to step in line it only raises other questions.

 

Now that people today have more choice, why are more choosing not to have than those who are? And, will it ever be reversed? Can it?

Why are so many choosing to abandon faith, lying to themselves/unaware or not about it as per the second definition? Why does the option to leave mean so many choose to jump ship?

 

I don't know in which context that comment was made, but I am warning you that if it was made by a non-religious person in an attempt to discuss religion, it was most likely fallacious. Like in trying to say that something is right or wrong because of the number of people who accept it or not.

 

The anti-theists types (I am not saying that the other person was one) generally have a strong herd mentality, meaning that they end up accepting an idea rather because of social acceptance than because it makes sense or not. They project this on other people, and that is why they bring that religion is supposedly being phased out. Translation: if you want to be with the cool guys then you have to abandon faith. What could possibly go wrong if you follow the (alleged) majority?

 

 

About your question itself, I would say that it is hardly anything new. That's actually the very essence of original sin: trying to be like God but without God. Remember that there is more to the Christian faith, or religion in general, than just believing in some sort of god. Even the demons of Hell knows that God exists, but obviously that is not enough for them.

 

What changes from age to age is the form in which trying to shove God away is accomplished. In the beginning, this was accomplished by creating a false idol in man's image and worshiping him in the place of God. Strictly speaking, this can be classified as a religious behavior. Another form of shoving God away is by outright denying him, which strictly speaking isn't a religious behavior but in the end of the day it bears the same essence as worshiping false idols. Except this time this idol is explicitly yourself, while worshiping a golden calf in your image is just implicitly yourself.

 

If the word in general liked Christianity, then that would be a surprise. Christ's ideas goes against the mundane mentality, so if the whole world loved Christianity then that would mean that the Church had abandoned Christs ideas and bent to the tides of the world.

 

Why had more people abandoned faith in the last few centuries? That is because undermining the Church from inside hasn't worked, that is, creating some false idol and changing Christ's words. Then the next attempt is to subvert the Church from outside, that is, by either eliminating it or replacing it for something else.

 

The number of people that really take the Word of God to its full extent was never big. Even in Christ's time the number of people whom he was intimate was just a handful, even though there were much more people around him. "For many are invited, but few are chosen." 

 

 

@@Blue,

 

Okay, that is actually a much clearer answer that I can understand. What I do find ironic though is that, both of us having referenced things as diverse as the Avengers to Star Wars to Team Fortress 2, we both find meaning and pull wisdom from our entertainment. I don't mean to sound like some special snowflake, but what you say actually distracts people from introspection has been just as much a spiritual guide to me as going to Church.

 

I've actually grown closer to God because of this show, it's friendship lessons prompting me to look inward and revalue how I interact with other people, and by extent, God. My best friend and I have long since examined and debated the merits of the Jedi and Sith code.

 

One thing I find infuriatingly hypocritical is when people who are devout fans of Lord of the Rings, then spin on their heels and curse the existence of Christianity, a religion that infuses Tolkien's work from it's mythology to it's themes. Or more recently, Avatar, which would not exist without Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist, and Shinto philosophy; only for them to once again call for the destruction of organized religion.

 

I suppose then the only pertinent question is, what can we do? As Christians and as people of faith in general? What can we do to turn back the tide? Beyond "leading by example" I mean, something more socially proactive to show the modern Christian is not a homophobic, elitist, luddite?

This anti-Christian mentality is the product of years of social engineering. This was accomplished by the entryism of people with an ideological agenda in certain institutions, like the academia, the media, or the entertainment. The ideals of those institutions are subverted to work for whatever "cause" those people want to defend

 

Little by little those ideas gain general acceptance and become ingrained, because those people are seen as references. Look at the universities, do you think that it is just an unfortunate circumstance that you got your faith attacked there? It takes some generations to accomplish, the process is so slow that it is difficult to notice unless you know what you are looking for. But when you see the consequences, you generally wonder where all of this came from. Hint: it wasn't from nowhere.

 

What can we do? The same thing, but in the opposite direction. You either get a role in one of these institutions and work in the best way possible, or found one of your own. Do your job in an honest and diligent way, do not concede to ideology, and don't let any entryist to get a leading hole, or any hole at all. It will take at least one generation to undo the damage, so don't be frustrated if things are not solved overnight.

 

There is one book that I would like to recommend you to read: SJWs Always Lie: Taking Down the Thought Police. I don't agree with everything from its author, but at least he has a brain and know how to use it .

 

---

 

There are some people that either I forgot or missed to greet , so let me make up for the lost time:

 

Fourth generation Seventh Day Adventist here! It's great to know there are more Christians here.

Welcome to the thread! It is also awesome for me

 

 

Lutheran here. I'd love to make a new friend.

 

Welcome, I hope you have a good time! We can be friends if you want

 

 

Oh cool. Looks like a good thread for debate and, well, mingling! Count me in~

 

Oh yeah, I am a Christian, and my church is part of AGC. Associated Gospel Churches. Really solid group.

 

Speaking of solid, has anyone here heard of Rock Solid Refuge?

 

Welcome too! I haven't heard about it, sorry.

 

 

im muslim is that okay?

That's OK. Everyone is welcome here!

[Once In A Blue Moon 895]

 

 

Look at the universities, do you think that it is just an unfortunate circumstance that you got your faith attacked there?

 

Oooh, I have so many issues with that as an example.

 

First and foremost, my experience of university was of a highly tolerant and open to all faiths - the Christian Union was able to promote its events openly and used university facilities for its events (every semester they would have one week full of events with highly aggressive marketing - too aggressive, in my book, but there you have it.) I know one of my lecturers was a Christian because he did a reading at the university carol service (not to be confused with the Christian Union carol service, which was also held every Christmas) and I'm sure that more of them were. Equally the other religious societies (although none were as large as the CU) advertised and ran events, and we all got on rather well. This is just one case, but the university in question was a fairly recently founded one (~50 years ago) and so lacks the strong Christian heritage that, say, Oxford or Cambridge have, and so would be idea for 'subversion' by anti-Christians.

 

Secondly, universities are a gathering of young, intelligent, creative and innovative minds into one location, and these come with a range of beliefs, ideologies and opinions - so of course there will be challenges to your faith. My biggest issue was actually with the Christian Union (which I ultimately abandoned as theologically too conservative and obsessed with propagation at the expense of all else) and that was where I had my biggest theological development milestones, but I was occasionally asked about my faith by non-Christians and I believe that I gave a good and reasonable account of it. Which leads me on to:

 

 

 

 

What can we do? The same thing, but in the opposite direction.

 

Doing that proves exactly what our 'opponents' want - that we are intolerant zealots in the same way that they are. You cannot confront an aggressively anti-Christian mentality (which I do not believe to be a common or significant belief in the West) with aggression of your own - that's how you end up with shouting matches between Dawkins and young-earth creationists or similar (both of whom are ridiculed by the neutrals, in my experience) which serves no purpose.

 

 

 

 

don't let any entryist to get a leading hole, or any hole at all.

 

 

What are you suggesting here? If you are suggesting (and I am genuinely unsure here) excluding and ostracising people with anti-Christian views then I must disagree most strongly, and you can take your pick of loving your enemies, loving your neighbours, Jesus going among and associating with the lowly and 'unclean', etc. as the basis of my argument. Dogmatic hatred, such as that displayed by Richard Dawkins (whom I still respect as a biologist, but not as a philosopher or theologian or level-headed individual) should be confronted with reason and patience rather than trying to expunge all such thoughts from society.

[Yellow Diamond 7,575]

@Blue, @Steel Accord, on the discussion of defining "faith" and "religion", Karl Barth had a decidedly negative view of the latter. He considered "religion" to emphasize human works and practices over and against God. As Blue said, everyone has their own religion insofar as they value particular goods or life goals. One doesn't need to believe in God to be religious. In fact, many of the most radical atheistic and antitheistic movements -- like Marxist Communism and National Socialism -- are religious and even eschatological in nature!

 

Faith, on the other hand, is, at least from my perspective, a gift. Faith matures and develops, like the mustard seed which Jesus describes in his parables. Faith emerges through a mediated encounter with God. (This mediation can even come about through means that are otherwise non-Christian.) But the person and work of Christ sets the definitive benchmark for the characteristics of faith, and the Church (i.e., the believing community) should reflect those marks in its own life.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

@@Yellow Diamond,

 

I agree but that really wasn't the point I was trying to make. I would think most of us here are intelligent enough to know the difference and overlap of true faith and "religion" as a social construct be it around spirituality or sociology.

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 

 

Oooh, I have so many issues with that as an example.   First and foremost, my experience of university was of a highly tolerant and open to all faiths - the Christian Union was able to promote its events openly and used university facilities for its events (every semester they would have one week full of events with highly aggressive marketing - too aggressive, in my book, but there you have it.) I know one of my lecturers was a Christian because he did a reading at the university carol service (not to be confused with the Christian Union carol service, which was also held every Christmas) and I'm sure that more of them were. Equally the other religious societies (although none were as large as the CU) advertised and ran events, and we all got on rather well. This is just one case, but the university in question was a fairly recently founded one (~50 years ago) and so lacks the strong Christian heritage that, say, Oxford or Cambridge have, and so would be idea for 'subversion' by anti-Christians.   Secondly, universities are a gathering of young, intelligent, creative and innovative minds into one location, and these come with a range of beliefs, ideologies and opinions - so of course there will be challenges to your faith. My biggest issue was actually with the Christian Union (which I ultimately abandoned as theologically too conservative and obsessed with propagation at the expense of all else) and that was where I had my biggest theological development milestones, but I was occasionally asked about my faith by non-Christians and I believe that I gave a good and reasonable account of it. Which leads me on to:

 

Okay so no accounting for personal experience.

 

 

 

Doing that proves exactly what our 'opponents' want - that we are intolerant zealots in the same way that they are. You cannot confront an aggressively anti-Christian mentality (which I do not believe to be a common or significant belief in the West) with aggression of your own - that's how you end up with shouting matches between Dawkins and young-earth creationists or similar (both of whom are ridiculed by the neutrals, in my experience) which serves no purpose.

 

Well then what do you suggest? That I'm overreacting and that and there is no problem? If not, what can one do to try and make religion AND faith more accepted in today's world besides simply living it?

Edited November 12, 2015 by Steel Accord

[I used to be a stranger 7,994]

This post has been redacted by the author.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Blue

[Yellow Diamond 7,575]

@@Yellow Diamond,

 

I agree but that really wasn't the point I was trying to make. 

 

My apologies, then. Nevertheless I do think the distinction between "faith" and "religion" offers a first insight into the "flight from Christianity" in the West. Even if we don't subscribe to Barth's admittedly more severe position on "religion", we see people making decisions through proxy -- sometimes for legitimate and painful reasons (e.g., Being molested by a priest; living with an abusive parent), other times for largely self-serving or facile causes (e.g., Not wanting to have to go to Church; presuming persons who believe in God are gullible and stupid). But this isn't a problem that can be reduced to a single cause -- apart from the presence of sin in the world -- let alone dismissed.

 

Theistic religion may be on the decline in Europe and the United States (but not accounting for its rapid growth in South America and Africa!), but the religious mentality remains, with money (mammon), power (ideology), and absolute trust in our own powers of progress forming a secular Trinity of sorts. What's led out through the front door comes in through the back... And where trust in God is no longer paramount, idols take His place.

[Sunwalker 981]

Oooh, I have so many issues with that as an example.

 

First and foremost, my experience of university was of a highly tolerant and open to all faiths - the Christian Union was able to promote its events openly and used university facilities for its events (every semester they would have one week full of events with highly aggressive marketing - too aggressive, in my book, but there you have it.) I know one of my lecturers was a Christian because he did a reading at the university carol service (not to be confused with the Christian Union carol service, which was also held every Christmas) and I'm sure that more of them were. Equally the other religious societies (although none were as large as the CU) advertised and ran events, and we all got on rather well. This is just one case, but the university in question was a fairly recently founded one (~50 years ago) and so lacks the strong Christian heritage that, say, Oxford or Cambridge have, and so would be idea for 'subversion' by anti-Christians.

 

Secondly, universities are a gathering of young, intelligent, creative and innovative minds into one location, and these come with a range of beliefs, ideologies and opinions - so of course there will be challenges to your faith. My biggest issue was actually with the Christian Union (which I ultimately abandoned as theologically too conservative and obsessed with propagation at the expense of all else) and that was where I had my biggest theological development milestones, but I was occasionally asked about my faith by non-Christians and I believe that I gave a good and reasonable account of it. Which leads me on to:

My experience at college has also been amazing, but I still know one thing: that's the exception instead of the rule. You describe what universities should be, and I wholeheartedly agree with it. However, your experience at universities may vary depending on your country and your college course. Countries in North America and in Europe usually are the worst, while also courses in the area of humanities tend to be terrible. Universities usually are overtaken by the leftist mentality, which is ostensibly antitheist.

 

I have studied Chemistry in South America, more specifically in Brazil . The country is very friendly towards religion, plus I have noticed that for some reason that I still don't' fully understand chemists tend to be more friendly towards spirituality than other kind of scientists. But at my university I don't have to go far to find a antireligious mentality. Here Physics are especially bad in this regard; and Philosophy, History and Geography are the worst.

 

When I said "do you think that it is just an unfortunate circumstance that you got your faith attacked there" I wasn't using the generic "you", as in referring to people in general. I was using "you" as a definite pronoun, specifically referring to the person I was talking with, @Steel Accord. The reason for that is that I remember he saying in the past that his faith got attacked at university. Here is one instance, and there were at least one more time that I remember him stating it, but I could not find the post now. And he is far from being the only one who got his faith attacked.

 

Doing that proves exactly what our 'opponents' want - that we are intolerant zealots in the same way that they are. You cannot confront an aggressively anti-Christian mentality (which I do not believe to be a common or significant belief in the West) with aggression of your own - that's how you end up with shouting matches between Dawkins and young-earth creationists or similar (both of whom are ridiculed by the neutrals, in my experience) which serves no purpose.

Those opponents are liars and his words must not be trusted. They are hypocrites, they are appealing to a sense of honor in you that they don't have. Chivalry is for opponents who are willing to be chivalrous, diplomacy is for opponents who are willing to be diplomatic. However, if you try that with dishonourable opponents, they are going to see it as a sign of weakness, a surrender. And they will strike you down at the instant you lower your guard.

 

They want you to think that by fighting back you are going to be intolerant, while they have no qualms with being intolerant themselves. Letting others hit you while you do nothing is lack of self-love, and doing nothing to protect other people who are being attacked is also a lack of love, because this is negligence. Yes, Christianity is about love, however there are circumstances that love requires you to protect what you care about.

 

God himself has ordered wars. Christ himself was very harsh with certain people, namely the Pharisees. All of this wasn't against opponents who were just misguided or naive, they were being malicious. They knew full well what they were doing was wrong, they insisted on it anyways and refused to stop.

 

What are you suggesting here? If you are suggesting (and I am genuinely unsure here) excluding and ostracising people with anti-Christian views then I must disagree most strongly, and you can take your pick of loving your enemies, loving your neighbours, Jesus going among and associating with the lowly and 'unclean', etc. as the basis of my argument. Dogmatic hatred, such as that displayed by Richard Dawkins (whom I still respect as a biologist, but not as a philosopher or theologian or level-headed individual) should be confronted with reason and patience rather than trying to expunge all such thoughts from society.

I am not talking about estranging people who are not Christian, I am talking about doing it with those are antitheists. I am talking about those who are willing to humiliate, ostracize and ruin the careers of people who are religious, especially Christians. Those cannot be reasoned with and the way to prevent them from harming you and other people is to not let them to have power to do that. And this is accomplished by exiling them from polite society, loss of their job, every loss the culture can inflict while keeping intact the original intent of the First Amendment, that is, no federal legal punishment for expressing viewpoints.

 

The honest and rational atheists, they are those who you should try to debate and reason with, they must not be estranged. Sinners, and everyone is one, must also get chances of repenting and making amends. Here I am not talking about those people, I am talking about those who know that what they are doing is wrong and adamantly refuse to stop, those who do want to be evil.

 

People like Richard Dawkins are not rational and well-meaning. They are professional liars, whose objective is to spread misinformation. Rational debate is useless here. Dawkins's views were thoroughly refuted over and over again, yet he ignores everything and keeps repeating the same misinformation over and over again. He knows that they are wrong, he makes no attempt at a treplic, he just keeps repeating the same lies even after they are exposed.

 

When people with such mentality gets to a position of power, this power is going to be used to prosecute Christians and other religious people. That is why there are attempts of expunging religious imagery and speech from both public and private places, and they are going to lie by saying that this is for the sake of tolerance and inclusivity of those who aren't religious. But apparently tolerance and inclusivity doesn't apply to the religious people... This alone should make very clear that they are lying. If you do nothing against such behaviours, they are going to get stronger each time. Attempts of giving them a safe quarter will backfire.

 

"Giving the other face" does not mean to stand still while others are harming you, it means to not act based on revenge or unrighteous anger. For example, not attacking an enemy who no longer poses a threat, or not torturing a surrendered enemy. "Giving the other face" also has another meaning: when someone slaps you, that person hits you with his strongest hand; but when you turn your face you are forcing him to hit you with his weakest hand, thus exposing his weakness to the world.

 

Well then what do you suggest? That I'm overreacting and that and there is no problem? If not, what can one do to try and make religion AND faith more accepted in today's world besides simply living it?

My suggestion was that those who cannot be reasoned with must be combated and not let to get in a position of power. Here I am not talking about a physical combat, that is, hurting or killing; I am talking about a cultural one, that is, making them and their ideas to be seen as irrelevant. This is accomplished by first resisting at their attempts of expunging religion, and then do not allow them to get into any project you might be performing. If the professional project you are taking part of is already overtaken, then you should either find another one or start one of your own.

 

Living your faith to the best helps a lot too .

Edited November 12, 2015 by Sunwalker

[Steel Accord 6,660]

 

 

However, your experience at universities may vary depending on your country and your college course. Countries in North America and in Europe usually are the worst, while also courses in the area of humanities tend to be terrible. Universities usually are overtaken by the leftist mentality, which is ostensibly antitheist. I have studied Chemistry in South America, more specifically in Brazil . The country is very friendly towards religion,

 

Making quite a LOT of pan-blanket statements there, my friend. It would be more accurate to say it depends on what region of certain countries are friendly or hostile to religious concepts. I guarantee you that a Rabbi would be respected in New York, and a college in Alabama would likely have more Christians than atheists.

 

 

 

My suggestion was that those who cannot be reasoned with must be combated and not let to get in a position of power. Here I am not talking about a physical combat, that is, hurting or killing; I am talking about a cultural one,

 

I think it would be safe to assume most would understand what you meant by combating.

 

 

 

This is accomplished by first resisting at their attempts of expunging religion, and then do not allow them to get into any project you might be performing. If the professional project you are taking part of is already overtaken, then you should either find another one or start one of your own. Living your faith to the best helps a lot too .

 

Not sure we are quite on the same frequency here but I understand the advice you are giving. 

[Sunwalker 981]

Making quite a LOT of pan-blanket statements there, my friend. It would be more accurate to say it depends on what region of certain countries are friendly or hostile to religious concepts. I guarantee you that a Rabbi would be respected in New York, and a college in Alabama would likely have more Christians than atheists.

Sorry, my bad. I should had been more careful on how I stated that. I do agree that it depends too on which regions of said places. What I wanted to say is that in Europe and North America is more likely to find a secularist mentality, but not that anyone everywhere there are like that.

 

 

I think it would be safe to assume most would understand what you meant by combating.

Yes, but one never knows... I already saw people in doubt whether this meant to go away prosecuting other people or not.

 

 

Not sure we are quite on the same frequency here but I understand the advice you are giving.

Maybe, but I was aiming to give an answer that was different from the classic living by example, and without repeating what Blue and Yellow Diamond had already said. Plus my reasoning was that the religious mentality was going away, at least in part, because ideological propaganda from ideologues in certain key places. Therefore, one way to revert the secular mentality is to not have such people in those positions.

 

But that is on a larger scale. On a smaller, more personal scale, I don't think that the answer can be much different than being the example. Do not try to force your faith on others, but also do not hide your faith. Be ready to explains your motives when necessary, and you should not concede any pressure against your faith. Of course, be tolerant with the others.

 

When you break some stereotype, people who are well-meaning do notice that, even if they don't talk about it at first.

[Quiz Flight 277]

My faithful subjects,

 I am not christian but catholic! I'm very proud of it too. When I go to church am I the only one who can like immediately feel the good lord's presence when you enter the place? I know some of us do! Thank you all for believing in the Father! 

 

your princess of slumber,

Princess Nidra

[Steel Accord 6,660]

My faithful subjects,

 I am not christian but catholic! I'm very proud of it too. When I go to church am I the only one who can like immediately feel the good lord's presence when you enter the place? I know some of us do! Thank you all for believing in the Father! 

 

your princess of slumber,

Princess Nidra

 

Hey, there are a lot of Catholics here, myself included. Call it semantics but I always thought we were Christian and only differentiated by our specific denominations. (Catholicism, Lutheran, etc.)

 

To answer your question, I always feel so good after mass, like I took a shower for my spirit.

[Reading Heart 167]

First, I'd like to say greet to my fellow believers in the teachings, life, death and resurrection of the Beloved, who walk in the Spirit and as children our Father above, my brothers and sisters.  

 

Second, I'd like to address the at least part discussion on this page..  regarding the people opposing others who oppose the gospel.. this is going to happen in life, and not just in collage.. and I have only the following to say in response to it.. the heart of what I have to say, it's already been said in the scriptures... but what I mean by it requires a touch more explanation..

 

Beloved, let us [unselfishly] love and seek the best for one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves [others] is born of God and knows God [through personal experience]. The one who does not love has not become acquainted with God [does not and never did know Him], for God is love. [He is the originator of love, and it is an enduring attribute of His nature.]  [1 John 4: 7-8 AMP]

 

Why do I mention this though?  If you can not look upon these people that are in opposition to you with love, even though you disagree with everything they say at that moment, then you are not right person to speak to their opposition.  Why? Because until you are speaking out of love (And by love, I mean the kind of love that is considered Agape), your words may as well be static... they will mean nothing and be ignored... and you will make no difference.  

 

I have to add to this, whenever I hear any of those who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus respond with words of hate for others, I also hear the Spirit grieve, and when I consider that, it brings me close to tears.  

 

This is perhaps more then I intended to say, but it seems to me that is what I needed to say here.. and I'll end it on another note.. I hope and pray for the best for every one of you.. regardless of where you are in life.. God bless.

[alpinefroggy 451]

So I have a question for you guys. Someone told me something about religiousness declining the world over, it was more off hand not a hard statement but it did get me thinking on the subject.

 

It's true religion was once virtually ubiquitous at least socially which isn't the case anymore; and while a part of me thinks this change is a good thing as I don't want anyone bullied into faith and buried beneath a truncheon to step in line it only raises other questions.

 

Now that people today have more choice, why are more choosing not to have than those who are? And, will it ever be reversed? Can it?

 

Because more people are being raised secular and being pushed away by anti lbgt and the very conservative religion.  take me for example,  I was raised secular and have come to know the world through no relgious lens what so ever.  I learned science in school and was fascinated by it.  I have since persued study in science in college.  I have no where needed to ever feel like I have to invoke god or a religion.  Not when it doesn't give me guidance in life or provides any reason to make a leap of faith.  I have simply not seen any purpose and thus I dont care to ever want to be in religion.

 

In terms of the whole population, its the younger population being pushed away.  I have heard many stories on the internet where people come in an apologetics mind set and end up leaving and believing in god is ilogical and unreasonable.  I am not going to give my judgement on this but that is what I see.  Secondly, its the relatively inflexible and strong views religion has on issues.  Especially lgbt.  I have poked catholicism and even more liberal sects about me being bisexual and a christian and the response is either a derisive gays are bad or being gay is ok but engaging in activities is a sin.  Immediatly pushed away and reazling I am really happy the way I am now

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Because more people are being raised secular and being pushed away by anti lbgt and the very conservative religion.  take me for example,  I was raised secular and have come to know the world through no relgious lens what so ever.  I learned science in school and was fascinated by it.  I have since persued study in science in college.  I have no where needed to ever feel like I have to invoke god or a religion.  Not when it doesn't give me guidance in life or provides any reason to make a leap of faith.  I have simply not seen any purpose and thus I dont care to ever want to be in religion.

 

Your case though, is not universal.

 

Both @@Sunwalker, and @@Blue, are likewise scientists and practicing Christians. That one doesn't preclude the other was something concluded in this thread a long while ago.

 

 

In terms of the whole population, its the younger population being pushed away.  I have heard many stories on the internet where people come in an apologetics mind set and end up leaving and believing in god is ilogical and unreasonable.  I am not going to give my judgement on this but that is what I see.  Secondly, its the relatively inflexible and strong views religion has on issues.  Especially lgbt.  I have poked catholicism and even more liberal sects about me being bisexual and a christian and the response is either a derisive gays are bad or being gay is ok but engaging in activities is a sin.  Immediatly pushed away and reazling I am really happy the way I am now

 

Said in spite of the presence of LGBT supporting Christians on this very thread (in fact they are the majority of frequent posters.) And that I personally was raised both Catholic AND pro-LGBT. That's not just me, that's my parents and a large extension of my family that don't consider non-hetero sexuality to be sinful.

 

I'm not saying this in anger toward you, just offering a slight rebuttal to both points. That looking at "religion" even just Christianity as one, monolithic, indivisible thing, gives one as inaccurate a picture as looking at ALL people of the various LGBT qualifiers as being under a singular and often derogatory banner.

 

Besides I've already been given the answer to my questions by others.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Steel Accord

[I used to be a stranger 7,994]

This post has been redacted by the author.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Blue

[Steel Accord 6,660]

@@Steel Accord, Actually I'm a mechanical engineering student, not a scientist;

 

Inasmuch I wish to be a servant of humanity on God's behalf, rather than a servant of myself using God as an unwitting pawn.

 

My point was that you have a discipline that requires a practical, sharp mind rooted in the physical world. If anything that's a better example because engineers like yourself are all about solving practical problems with what can be built at hand rather than working in the abstract such as theoretical physicists. (No disrespect to them of course.)

Edited November 14, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Flying_Endeavor 73]

Hello everypony! Glad to see fellow brothers and sisters on here :3 

 

Greetings from the Republic of the Fillyppines! 

 

Edited November 14, 2015 by Flying_Endeavor

[Once In A Blue Moon 895]

 

 

Well then what do you suggest? That I'm overreacting and that and there is no problem? If not, what can one do to try and make religion AND faith more accepted in today's world besides simply living it?

 

No. I believe that the 'anti-Christian problem' is real, and individuals around the world (including in the West) have a strong hatred of Christianity - but what I do not believe is that there is a significant infiltration of institutions by said people with the intention of attacking Christianity, which is what I understood @@Sunwalker to believe.

 

To answer your question, I believe that when faith is difficult and you are greatly challenged for being a Christian, simply living as a good Christian (love God, love thy neighbour) is one of the best things you can do. How you can best live out your Christian faith is ultimately between you and God, but I can offer my experience and observations in the hope that they are useful. I vividly recall being mocked for my beliefs at school - usually combining attacks on my intelligence with ridicule for some aspect of Christianity. There were one or two strong anti-theists in the group (most of whom I believe were atheists or agnostics) who would ask me a leading question, then proceed to attack my answer. Sunwalker is correct that they can probably never be reasoned with (although they were children then, so there may be hope) but that I engaged with them intellectually and did not mock or insult them in return was not lost on the wider group - they did more to undermine themselves than they did me, and on the occasion that they did throw an interesting question at me it did make me think - which is a good thing, as it strengthened my theological knowledge. That was a fairly minor and infrequent thing though, and it didn't really damage my equanimity, and had it been more sustained and vicious then it could have been a lot worse for me - in that case, it would best be treated as what it is, bullying, and to get help with it the way you would with any other bullying. That is why I objected to vilifying Western universities or similar, as they do often offer support for bullying (it may not be good, but they will usually try) so accusing them as being part of the problem seems unreasonable.

 

 

 

Chivalry is for opponents who are willing to be chivalrous, diplomacy is for opponents who are willing to be diplomatic.

 

I disagree, and I think this totally misses the point. Take Luke 6:35-36

 

"But love you enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your father is merciful."

 

I agree that one should confront evil, but you must recognise that God loves every person and it is not for you to judge a person irredeemably evil. Certainly take action when it is correct to do so; as a case in point, I support the military action against the so-called 'Islamic State' - although I do know Christians that are absolute pacifists and so would not, but do not hate your opponents and always be merciful. Just because they would behead me at the first opportunity does not mean that I should behead them - I would see them imprisoned because physical restraint is the only way to prevent them committing more physical harm, but not tortured or abused, and even if none of them ever repent of their actions and they spend the rest of their life in prison then I would not consider it a wasted effort as that is but a fraction of the mercy God shows sinners. 

 

 

 

I am not talking about estranging people who are not Christian, I am talking about doing it with those are antitheists.

 

Again, no. If a person is using their power to abuse Christians, then you go prosecute them under the laws that support an open and tolerant society  - freedom of Religion is upheld across the Western World (and elsewhere) which is why I am a staunch advocate of such laws. However, by the same laws that protect the right to religious freedom, you cannot discriminate against a person who is anti-theist - that is a view they are allowed to hold, and if a Christian were to do so then I would expect them to be treated in the same way by the law. They cannot target Christians (if they do, apply the law) and so Christians cannot target them (if they do, apply the law) - I know that this is an ideal that we do not have, but it is one that I aspire to in a world that does contain hateful and malicious people but we must try to live with them regardless. Christ will come again, there will ultimately be justice, but until then we do what we can to love our neighbour as ourself - and the law as it stands (in the UK at least) is on our side in that respect. In places where there are no such laws (both non-Christian and Christian dominated) this is much more difficult, and I am not sure what the best course of action is (I would usually err on the side of pro-democratic and equal-rights protests but not conflict, but again I am not sure when I see countries like North Korea or Saudi Arabia.)

 

 

 

God himself has ordered wars. Christ himself was very harsh with certain people, namely the Pharisees.

 

If I recall correctly, when the Pharisees, teachers of the law and similar tried to trick and trap Jesus he answered their questions or asked them astute questions in return (Mark 11:27-33 and Mark 12:13-17 for example) that supported his position. Yes he denounced their hypocrisy and warned against their teachings, but he did not sink to their level. In the same way, I disagree with Richard Dawkins on theological matters, and I will argue against his beliefs, but I would not see him silenced. As an aside, his biology is good and his scientific work has advanced our understanding of the world, and we are better for it, so he has done some good regardless of his beliefs.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

@@Once In A Blue Moon,

 

With this, all of my misgivings vanish. Thank you for your advice.

 

Unrelated, though I'm sure most of you have already said a prayer for those who died in Paris but one more never hurts. 

Edited November 15, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Sunwalker 981]

My faithful subjects,

 I am not christian but catholic! I'm very proud of it too. When I go to church am I the only one who can like immediately feel the good lord's presence when you enter the place? I know some of us do! Thank you all for believing in the Father! 

 

your princess of slumber,

Princess Nidra

 

Welcome to the thread

 

Without getting on interdenominational debates, I can say that Catholicism is a Christian denomination, as well Protestantism and Eastern Orthodoxy. Those are the three biggest forms of Christianity, and most of the Christian denominations fall within one of these three.

 

That being said, I am Catholic too

 

 

First, I'd like to say greet to my fellow believers in the teachings, life, death and resurrection of the Beloved, who walk in the Spirit and as children our Father above, my brothers and sisters.  

 

Second, I'd like to address the at least part discussion on this page..  regarding the people opposing others who oppose the gospel.. this is going to happen in life, and not just in collage.. and I have only the following to say in response to it.. the heart of what I have to say, it's already been said in the scriptures... but what I mean by it requires a touch more explanation..

 

Beloved, let us [unselfishly] love and seek the best for one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves [others] is born of God and knows God [through personal experience]. The one who does not love has not become acquainted with God [does not and never did know Him], for God is love. [He is the originator of love, and it is an enduring attribute of His nature.]  [1 John 4: 7-8 AMP]

 

Why do I mention this though?  If you can not look upon these people that are in opposition to you with love, even though you disagree with everything they say at that moment, then you are not right person to speak to their opposition.  Why? Because until you are speaking out of love (And by love, I mean the kind of love that is considered Agape), your words may as well be static... they will mean nothing and be ignored... and you will make no difference.  

 

I have to add to this, whenever I hear any of those who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus respond with words of hate for others, I also hear the Spirit grieve, and when I consider that, it brings me close to tears.  

 

This is perhaps more then I intended to say, but it seems to me that is what I needed to say here.. and I'll end it on another note.. I hope and pray for the best for every one of you.. regardless of where you are in life.. God bless.

 

Welcome too

 

I also agree that we should be as loving as possible. In a world in which "eye for eye" and overcompetitiveness are the norm, by being a compassionate person you are going to stand out and inspire many people.

 

 

Hello everypony! Glad to see fellow brothers and sisters on here :3 

 

Greetings from the Republic of the Fillyppines! 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxzmuLPeehQ

 

Greetings from Brazil

 

Welcome

 

 

Because more people are being raised secular and being pushed away by anti lbgt and the very conservative religion.  take me for example,  I was raised secular and have come to know the world through no relgious lens what so ever.  I learned science in school and was fascinated by it.  I have since persued study in science in college.  I have no where needed to ever feel like I have to invoke god or a religion.  Not when it doesn't give me guidance in life or provides any reason to make a leap of faith.  I have simply not seen any purpose and thus I dont care to ever want to be in religion.

 

In terms of the whole population, its the younger population being pushed away.  I have heard many stories on the internet where people come in an apologetics mind set and end up leaving and believing in god is ilogical and unreasonable.  I am not going to give my judgement on this but that is what I see.  Secondly, its the relatively inflexible and strong views religion has on issues.  Especially lgbt.  I have poked catholicism and even more liberal sects about me being bisexual and a christian and the response is either a derisive gays are bad or being gay is ok but engaging in activities is a sin.  Immediatly pushed away and reazling I am really happy the way I am now

Well, I have grew on a religious environment and I also study science. What I think when I see the beauty, complexity, and accuracy of a chemical process; what I think is how wise God is. However, be it to say that a phenomenon shows that God is necessary or not, either way Science does not have the tools to make judgements of value. Science only deals with a subset of reality, which is the working of the physical laws. Science has nothing to say when it comes to something being good or bad, it is necessary to use other forms of knowledge in order to say that. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with pursuing other form of knowledge, Science is not the only way to learn something.

 

God is by definition above the physical laws, because he is said to be the creator of them. So this way God is outside the scope of Science, which cannot say anything one way or another about the existence of God. That is a philosophical, ontological and theological question. Personally, I don't use God to explain natural phenomena and this has never occurred to me. Actually, if God is perfect then he is capable of making a Universe that works. For me God is both a father and a friend, and my relationship with him is one one of love, instead of utilitarianism.

 

About losing the faith on college I think that it is a combination of both social pressure and lack of knowledge. People don't usually have a knowledge about their own faith that goes beyond the basics, beyond of what was learned early on childhood. There is a point in which is necessary to go beyond the basics, once someone grows up he needs to start being feed on solid food. The four fundamental operations are very important to math, but you are never going to be a good engineer if that is all you know about Math, you also need to learn the more advanced stuff.

 

Couple this with the urge of feeling accepted in the group. When pretty much repeats that religion is stupid, then the individual feel pressured to repeat it too. But following the majority is not always a good idea...

 

 

However I notice that most of the times on such universities all that they do is to repeat ad nauseam that religion is irrational, God is illogical, faith says to people to accept stuff without reason, etc. Those claims are never justified, just repeated over and over, and those statements are the ones who a certain breed of Atheists accept without questioning (those of the movement called "New Atheism"). Actually, the debate on religion goes much deeper than that, and it is far to be a matter accepted on blind faith.

 

There are four basic questions to be addressed when it comes to make a rational argument for Christianity, one historical and three philosophical. The historical one is whether the events narrated on the Gospel, especially Christ's resurrection, actually happened. The philosophical questions are whether miracles can take place; whether God exists; and whether truth is true. From a philosophical standpoint is possible to deduce that the Universe must have had a cause that is neither time nor space, and neither matter nor energy. But that does not differentiate the Christian God from any deist deity. That is when the historical aspects come into play.

 

About LGBT, I am full aware that some people (from all sides) completely blow the subject out of proportion, which is wrong, but nothing of this will change the nature of the homosexual act. It is wrong to belittle and harass someone for being gay, they still must be treated with love and respect. However, being loving and respectful should not be mistaken with an approval for what they do. Actually, love actually requires someone to warn about harmful things that the other person is doing.

 

Everyone is a sinner in some form, no exceptions. In the end of the day the homosexual act is another sin in a long list of sins. It is far from being the worst one when it comes to sexuality, it is not even close to be as bad as rape or pedophilia. But a sin is a sin anyways, and people ought not be attached to any sin. Being called out is never fun, being told you are wrong is never fun, but all of this shows that the other party cares about your wellbeing. I have also my sins too, and I feel bad about being called out about them, but in the end of the day I know that it is necessary.

 

Christianity in its essence does not care about social acceptance or what others are going to think, it is about seeking the truth, which is not going to change regardless of what people think about it. It is not going to change a single line in order to please people. What measures the success of the Church is not how many people like it, but rather how close the Church is to the word of God. How much or how few people follow the Church is ultimately irrelevant for its success.

 

One thing is when someone to think that God does not actually say that homosexuality is wrong, at least they are being honest with themselves, though I still respectfully disagree with them. But when someone says that became an atheist just because of says that homosexuality is wrong, then this person is being dishonest. This is pride, just refusing to admit your mistakes and turning blind eyes to them, plus that it does not proves that God does not exist.

 

It is worth remembering that Christians are still expected to be respectful and loving towards other, and that being self-righteous and harassing gays in the name of God is completely wrong.

 

---

 

@@Once In A Blue Moon:

 

I think that we are more on the same page than what it looked at first . I do agree with many things you say. Yes, I do agree that we should default to peace and compassion, and that violence should be only the absolute last resort. Even then, it should be no more than the necessary.

 

About discussing with irrational atheists, I didn't meant to belittle them. It is just necessary to realize when trying to reason will be a waste of effort, and instead that it is better to first call them out on their mistakes, or if necessary also expose their mistakes to other people, so they are not going to be deceived.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Sunwalker

[Reading Heart 167]

@@Once In A Blue Moon,

 

With this, all of my misgivings vanish. Thank you for your advice.

 

Unrelated, though I'm sure most of you have already said a prayer for those who died in Paris but one more never hurts. 

 

Prayer is always worth while, but I suggest directing your prayers to the families of those who have died rather then the dead, they have passed on into their eternity, prayer will not change anything for them.  Their still living friends and relatives, however, are dealing with great pain now, my heart goes out to them, and their tears, they are the ones most in need of prayer now, and where my prayers are directed in this matter.