MLP Fanwork Illegal

[Kelvocity 211]

Ugh, the copyright laws in the USA really, really confuse me... they should revise them for the 21st Century if they haven't done so already. These laws do take into account the immense power of the internet, right?

[Pixel Stick 927]

The problem with any fandom that generates fan art and materials is that any single piece of it has the potential to take away from the copyright holder's brand recognition and profit, no matter how innocuous the use of their IP is.  I'll give you a non-MLP example:

 

About 15 years ago, there was a website called "The THX Digital Dude", which was an early Flash information website.  It had a lot of neat stuff on it, all framed by fancy transition animations that included a spinning, 3D-rendered THX logo.  The site was effectively shut down when Lucasfilm sent the site owner a Cease & Desist order - the site made absolutely no money (except from banner ads) and had no aim to use the logo for any sort of profit, but the C&D was still perfectly justified.  In that case, it was because the logo was being used for a purpose that had absolutely nothing to do with Lucasfilm's sound system technology.  Their wording was, specifically, "the unauthorized use of [the logo] may confuse customers as to the creator of the content, and dilute the brand."

 

Unfortunately, from the sound of it, it sounds like Fighting Is Magic falls into a similar boat.  You've got a fighting game using Hasbro's trademarks and intellectual property, and it was gaining enough popularity to be regarded as an actual threat to the franchise.  Even done completely for free and for the enjoyment of legitimate fans of the show, it's not Hasbro's work.  If there's any chance that people could be confused as to whether Fighting is Magic was done by Hasbro or was a derivative work, and furthermore if it took the franchise in an unintended direction that could confuse people into thinking it was authorized, it could do irreparable harm to the franchise and to the company.

 

In short, it sounds like they were more or less obligated to shut it down.  But that doesn't mean they'll automatically do so for all fan work.  And has been pointed out, they would be foolish to try to shut down everything their fans create because the vast majority of the work done by their fans help to publicize the show and the official merchandise.  It's good advertising for them.

 

There are just limits as to what people CAN do in that regard.

[cuteycindyhoney 13,306]

Ugh, the copyright laws in the USA really, really confuse me... they should revise them for the 21st Century if they haven't done so already. These laws do take into account the immense power of the internet, right?

It's easy to think about if you just keep one thing firmly in mind. You CAN NOT make money on it, if it was created by someone else. Hasbro tends to look the other way on fanfics and the like, but the game was seen as a threat to the licensed game being worked on right now.

 

I don't know if they still do it, but FOX used to actively hunt down "X Files" fanfics and send out cease and desist orders whenever they found one. Hasbro (so far) isn't taking things to that extreme.

Edited February 11, 2013 by cuteycindyhoney

[Prismatic 49]

The other thing I wondered is whether or not the creators of Fighting is Magic was using a legal license of their Fighter Maker software (I haven't been able to find much information on this).  Although to me while Fightning is Magic is not a profit game it was run commercially.  There are many pieces of computer software back in the 90s and earlier that were commercially distributed for free under the terms shareware (if the software like a game had additional content to be purchased such as episodes) and freeware.  More known freeware programs today are Skype and Adobe Flash Player which are still commercial pieces of software.  Now why might I state this?  Because of the 6 Ws.

• Who?
• What?
• When?
• How?
• Where?
• Why?

 

Who - As far as I know the only receipents of the developmental phases were beta testers and their dev team.  If this was really a game for the community it could be open source (I do believe the Kart Racing game runs under this logic; not entirely sure).  I respect the Mane6 for wishing to deliver a high quality product but at the 'expense' of the community they were very restrictive with their terms.  If anything derivataive works (such as sprites) they could of just either asked Hasbro or released them (whether or not Hasbro clears that for Public Domain is unknown).

What - The game assets.  Whether or not this includes programming or not could lie on their Fighter Maker program.

When - Two years; not a whole lot to state here but building up that hype could of, over time, go on Hasbro's radar.  At the same time with the DVD packages out and plans rolling in (i.e. Stuff in Germany and Australia) Hasbro has probably gotten the publicity they wanted and now wish to reassert their territory.

Where - Online and some conventions.

How - Essentially closing off all developmental notes and so forth to the community and restricting the access of their works to only a select few.  While Hasbro has been on the streak shutting down other things that are more open (I think one MMO was shut down) I somewhat felt that Fighting is Magic has been trying to pride on their own public image rather than that of the community it represents.

 

Of course I am no expert in law but this is just my take on it.

[Kamil 315]

Wikipedia may not be the MOST valid source in general, but according to this article being non-profit is helpful but not the most significant out of the things which contribute to the fair use definition. From that information I would say that there is indeed a case for Fighting is Magic to be upheld as fair use, but there is also a case for it to not be, and nobody wants a legal battle.

 

Also of note, copyright law is primarily a matter for civil courts rather than criminal. A cease & desist order is a formal way of saying "I will sue you if you don't do what I want" so it is perfectly legal to ignore one if you believe that you're protected by fair use and are willing to argue that case in court either with a lawyer or simply on your own.

[Twinhead B 482]

I'm no professor when it comes to this, but I was under the impression that Mane6 violated trademark laws when they allowed EVO to host an exhibition tournament for Fighting is Magic that had it's own cash prize. While Mane6 themselves wouldn't have been profitting directly, SOMEONE would have been.

 

Again, I'm no professor on the subject, but perhaps that was the reason?

[Zacharias 191]

This could be so much easier if Hasbro told us themselves why they did what they did.

It would stop scaring their customers away, and help us avoid further conflicts like this by telling us the "limit" we should respect. That is if the problem was FiM becoming too popular.

But if they want to destroy bronies and they are blind that they'd be nowhere if only little girls liked their stuff, then be it. I'll be more than happy to leave and see them crumble.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Zacharias

[Cocodrillo 1,565]

Hasbro's just jelly because fanworks is much better and gets more of love than the stuff they do (for example plushies).

BUUURN.

[Appetite4Democracy 452]

I don't see many Fan Fic's that are parodies or criticisms towards the show. Most, if not all, MLP Fan Fics use the pony characters (or MLP trademarked material) to create a story. As for parodies, the .mov series is considered a parody, which is why it can get away from situations like what Fighting is Magic is going through currently.

Friendship Is Witchcraft is a parody, too. It got shut down.

 

Nothing is safe, even .MOV

 

Then what's next? Fan toys? Fan art? Fan music? This forum?

[MelancholicMemory 2,025]

The legality of fan works depends on several characteristics, mostly involving whether or not it constitutes fair use. A good deal of the fan made content for MLP is, in fact, illegal, although it costs the company far too much, both financially and in regards to their reputation, to prosecute most of the violators. In fact, more and more companies are realizing that fan works can only help the success of their business because it is essentially free advertising. Evidence of this is clear. If you ask most of the users here how they got into MLP, they would probably mention at least one fan work, whether it be a video, art, music, or anything else, in their stories. As long as you are not blatantly ripping off of something and claiming it is your own, you usually won't ever be bothered because of a fan fic or a piece of fanart. Generally, no one will bother you for creating fan made content, although it seems that Hasbro has dubbed Fighting is Magic as being problematic somehow.

 

Outside of MLP, there are some cases in which fan fics and such can definitely get you into trouble. Authors such as Anne Rice, for example, prosecute anyone who makes anything based on her books without paying her. It really depends on who is making the product, and Hasbro is generally pretty cool about allowing fanmade content. There is no need to worry.

 

Overall, copyright law needs to be improved in countless ways to  be actually applicable in today's society.

[Kamil 315]

I'm no professor when it comes to this, but I was under the impression that Mane6 violated trademark laws when they allowed EVO to host an exhibition tournament for Fighting is Magic that had it's own cash prize. While Mane6 themselves wouldn't have been profitting directly, SOMEONE would have been.

 

Again, I'm no professor on the subject, but perhaps that was the reason?

Actually, Mane6 specifically DENIED the opportunity to be a part of the exhibition. They would have received a great deal of publicity, but no reasonable outcome would have involved somebody getting paid to play Fighting is Magic. They could argue that EVO itself would be making some kind of profit off the game, but that's a pretty flimsy case and profit isn't as big of a factor in fair use as it used to be.

[Twinhead B 482]

Actually, Mane6 specifically DENIED the opportunity to be a part of the exhibition. They would have received a great deal of publicity, but no reasonable outcome would have involved somebody getting paid to play Fighting is Magic. They could argue that EVO itself would be making some kind of profit off the game, but that's a pretty flimsy case and profit isn't as big of a factor in fair use as it used to be.

 

Like I said, not a professor on the subject. XD

 

However, I also heard Mane6 never asked permission from Hasbro to develop Fighting is Magic. Perhaps the two parties could reach a solution at some point? It'd be a real shame to have the project just collect dust...

[poniesforfun 716]

OK so I haven't been around on this Fighting is Magic issue so correct me if you see a mistake. From what I'm getting it all started when Fighting is Magic was entered in the Evo Tournament.

 

Equestria Daily's Article on this

 

Publicity

It appears the Evo Tournament is a pretty big event and it also allows indie games to be entered. This is a good time for indie game developers to bring their game out into the public and spread their name. Hasbro felt Fighting is Magic was not the kind of game they want endorsed with their slogan as the MLP being a show about ponies beating each other up would become official in the gaming world.

 

Hasbro has complete ownership of all the characters and stories, they just don't feel the need to request a cease and desist on the other fanworks you find on the web because they do not pose much of a threat to changing the minds of people into looking at their shows as anything but a girl's show. Other fanworks are far from canon but Fighting is Magic seems to have done just too good of a job on reproducing the same material as MLP.

 

Profit

I don't know if the indie developers are making a profit secretly on the side or not, I'm not acquainted with that news. I do however know that the Evo Tournament does charge people for a pass to enter the tournament as a competitor and for every game they compete in. That means someone is making profit off of Hasbro's characters and even if it's not the indie developers themselves that money is still not going to Hasbro's pocket. This makes big corporations very upset I believe. Also can someone correct me if you actually get paid for slotting in your indie game in Evo Tournament because I haven't found any information on this.

 

There was also a breast cancer donation involved in which the community would donate money for breast cancer research for a game they want to put into the competition. Once again this means money will be involved and Hasbro will not be getting paid.

 

Though I haven't played this game maybe it just got too good that Hasbro is worried that it would compete with their present or future games that require payment to play?

 

Now if they made an online tourney that cost no money to enter or to get it slotted in then I don't think Hasbro would of have any beef with that.

Edited February 11, 2013 by poniesforfun

[Pixel Stick 927]

I was thinking more about this on my way into work, and I decided I could see why Hasbro would want to shut down both Fighting is Magic and Friendship is Witchcraft.  I also haven't actually seen either of these things myself, so please correct me if I'm wrong on what they are or how they were developed.  I'm just going on how they've been described here.

 

In general, any fan work that achieves a level of popularity and notability that could cause it to become "mainstream" basically requires Hasbro to acknowledge its existence.  When that work deviates significantly from the original franchise, it puts them in the awkward position of having to make a choice about it.  Either they must endorse it, implicitly by "looking the other way", or explicitly by stating they're okay with its existence.  (Or in some rare cases, actually making it their own.)  Or they must shut it down, for the reason that it could dilute their brand or cause confusion.

 

In the case of Fighting, I imagine Hasbro would not want their target demographic (remember who that is) to think that they endorse a game in which Rainbow Dash can beat Fluttershy into a pulp.  It's out of character for the characters and the universe as a whole.  In the case of Witchcraft, I wouldn't be surprised to find that Hasbro simply wanted to make a statement that the existence and use of magic in the show should not be associated with witchcraft, voodoo, or any other form of spirituality.  Such things have strong negative connotations in our culture, and they're already treading a thin line with their own canon touching on forms of magic that many religions would find offensive.  So having a significant fan work go over that line may have forced Hasbro's hand in the matter.

 

Similarly, I'd imagine they'd take a much harsher view of any significant fan works depicting their characters engaged in sexual activity.  It's counter to the universe they've established, and potentially harmful to the franchise if people in general (and particularly their target customers) believe that they're okay with this.

 

Basically, they not only have to protect their own IP.  As a company that makes toys for children and, through the show, attempts to teach them good life values, Hasbro has an obligation to protect their audience.  Anything that could be seen as harmful to that audience unfortunately needs to be dealt with.

 

One other thing: I think people may be getting a bit confused about how "Fair Use" and "Parody" apply here.  Fair Use states that it is okay to use a small portion of a copyrighted work for the purpose of parody or critical commentary.  Witchcraft could have been properly called a parody (again, I don't know for sure), but it sounds like it went beyond that definition and into the realm of "spinoff", which then falls under "derivative works".  And Fighting almost certainly wasn't a parody.  On the other hand, if someone were to write a blog article titled "Friendship is Witchcraft" and use screenshots or video clips from the show as a form of critique (eg. "This show teaches kids that it's okay to perform acts of witchcraft"), that is protected speech and Hasbro cannot do anything to stop it.  But the difference there is in how the IP is used.

 

By the absolute letter of the law, yes, the vast majority of FiM fan art is technically illegal, and Hasbro would be within their right to shut it all down if (a) they wanted to, and ( they felt they could.  As many people have said, though, they understand how to use the fan community to their advantage by gaining positive press and brand recognition from us, and the vast majority of the fan works are not notable enough to the public mainstream to have any significant impact on the franchise.  It's only those notable exceptions where they really need to do something about it.

 

TL;DR: Yeah, sorry, it's a big wall of text.  My apologies.

[Shanks 10,816]

Similarly, I'd imagine they'd take a much harsher view of any significant fan works depicting their characters engaged in sexual activity.  It's counter to the universe they've established, and potentially harmful to the franchise if people in general (and particularly their target customers) believe that they're okay with this.

Actually they have pretty much left that alone which is smart of them because if they do take any action on that it will draw more attention to it which actually might harm their reputation. One major misconception about bronies is that all of them are cloppers (people who look at pony porn) and to be fair there are plenty that are but also plenty that aren't.

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

I was thinking more about this on my way into work, and I decided I could see why Hasbro would want to shut down both Fighting is Magic and Friendship is Witchcraft.  I also haven't actually seen either of these things myself, so please correct me if I'm wrong on what they are or how they were developed.  I'm just going on how they've been described here.

 

@,

 

For the thousandth time this week, Hasbro. Did, Not. Shut. Down. FiW. That was Youtube's faulty content ID system, the creators are looking into another video host as we speak.  

Edited February 11, 2013 by Shoboni

[Fhaolan 4,483]

There is also the detail that 'not-for-profit' is actually a legal term with a very specific meaning that doesn't jive with what most people think it does. It doesn't mean no income. It means that the income must be cancelled out by expenses. And employee salaries are included in expenses.

 

So you have to be a lot more careful with that defense than many would expect.

[A Glimpse of Everything 129]

Well, it depends. It's kinda like YouTube. I make lyric videos to music, which is using the music that somebody else owns in one of my videos. You can use the content as long as you don't claim you own it. Like, if we wrote a fanfic with Twilight Sparkle in it. We're not claiming that we own Twilight Sparkle. If we draw Twilight Sparkle, we own the art, but we're not saying we own the character.

[Pixel Stick 927]

 

For the thousandth time this week, Hasbro. Did, Not. Shut. Down. FiW. That was Youtube's faulty content ID system, the creators are looking into another video host as we speak.

 

Alright, thanks for the clarification.  I had not seen YouTube as being the party responsible for that.

 

That said, if Hasbro were to actually step in on that topic, I would understand why.

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

Alright, thanks for the clarification.  I had not seen YouTube as being the party responsible for that.

 

That said, if Hasbro were to actually step in on that topic, I would understand why.

I think Hasbro actually made a statement saying they'd okay the abridged series and other parody videos if they were properly appealed. They are fair use because they fall under parody or commentary depending on how you look at it. 

 

Yup, they are illegal. Which is why one of the primary fan Plushie makers got a C&D letter as well. If someone pointed these out to Hasbro directly, they'd be compelled to send C&D letters to these people. Actually, you'd get more out of pointing the plushies out to ToyWiz, as they're the licencee for MLP Plushies. They'd complain to Hasbro and then Hasbro would send out the C&D.

 

Actually, they just made them remove the commission info from their page. They can still make and sell them as long as it's not commissioned by a specific party. 

 

Also, that happened after that God-Forsaken Lyra "Toy" so you can't blame them for for making a move in the matter. 

Edited February 11, 2013 by Shoboni

[Pixel Stick 927]

 

I think Hasbro actually made a statement saying they'd okay the abridged series and other parody videos if they were properly appealed. They are fair use because they fall under parody or commentary depending on how you look at it.

 

Really?  If that's the case, then they're being much cooler about this than I realized.

 

It also would mean they're setting a precedent, both for themselves and for other companies with similar properties.  If they've gone and made a public statement that acknowledges and okays the existence of derivative, fan-made works, then this community really has nothing to worry about.  It sounds like with Fighting, they had to set a boundary, but in most cases they don't mind.

 

I probably need to read up more on Hasbro's involvement in the community.  I'm getting too much into conjecture.

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

I would argue that Cupcakes rivals Fighting is Magic in terms of popularity.

 

I also recall fans putting togetehr and selling a printed book version of Fallout; Equestria.  Wonder if they;re going to stop that as well.

 

I heard that was ok'd by both Hasbro and Bethesda. the respective copyright holders of both involved IPs in the fic. Some of the show's staff own copies from the first printing too. 

[Paleopony 701]

I think fanfiction is legal but you can't sell it.

[EpicEnergy 23,139]

I think copyright pertains mainly to copying someone else's work and publishing it as their own.