The Crystal Empire Or Magical Mystery Cure?

[100 beasts kaidou 321]

Which one do you think was better. The Opening or the ending of season 3? In my humble and honest opinion it was The Crystal Empire because:

1) MMC had alot of plotholes (That dint sound correct) too much singing, Short, Out of nowhere, hopefully the opening of s4 will make up for that.

2) The Crystal Empire had alot of great stuff in it, a new race appeared, Explored outside of equestria, Spike actually did something in here, Also With King Sombra is had alot of moments that None of us though we would see in a little girls show such : That bloody Window in Twilights nightmare, Dark Magic, Slavery, And a tyrant who would murder his own mother for a tiny piece of crystals and had a pretty scary shadow form.

[Shanks 10,816]

The opening though it wasn't as good as it could have been as King Sombra was written nowhere near to his full potential as a villain while the finale was the worst episode of the entire series due to it being so rushed that it made the entire episode feel like filler for the big coronation at the end. So I am going to have to say that the opening was better, the writers still have some time to smooth over the finale with the season 4 opening but they are really going to have their hands full.

Edited April 13, 2013 by EarthbendingProdigy

[Sunbro 4 Lyfe 939]

I would say Crystal empire but only because it made me feel "Meh" whereas mmc made me feel like choking a puppy.

The villan was still generic and terrible as well as shining amour and Cadence being generic characters but still. It gave a backstory to the crystal empire, and took a *kinda* darker tone.

[Pony Of The Month 534]

 

 

MMC had alot of plotholes

 

It may have felt rushed on the first viewing, but there were no "plot holes."

 

 

 

Out of nowhere

 

It's not like this was foreshadowed in friendship is magic part 2 and The Crystal Empire part 2 or anything.... 

 

 

 

The Crystal Empire had alot of great stuff in it, a new race appeared,

 

Unfortunately we didn't get to learn much about this new race, and none of them had a canon name which was disappointing

 

.

 

Explored outside of equestria

 

 

Well, technically it was the arctic north OF EQUESTRIA, but whatever...

 

I honestly don't know which I like more. I don't see too much wrong with either of them. I guess I'll have to go with Magical Mystery Cure, just because I wanted to get to know at least ONE of the crystal ponies, and that never happened. I was hoping we'd get to know a crystal pony in Games Ponies Play, but that never happened either.

[Shanks 10,816]

Unfortunately we didn't get to learn much about this new race, and none of them had a canon name which was disappointing

True, but there is still plenty of room to learn more about the crystal ponies in later episodes. I think we will learn more about them eventually the question is when, but more than anything I would really like to see King Sombra return he has so much potential as a villain.

[100 beasts kaidou 321]

I would say Crystal empire but only because it made me feel "Meh" whereas mmc made me feel like choking a puppy.

The villan was still generic and terrible as well as shining amour and Cadence being generic characters but still. It gave a backstory to the crystal empire, and took a *kinda* darker tone.

not every villain has to fool around And have an emo backstory where he is misunderstood, King Sombra was like he had no soul, He was an ass kicker a demon a machine, Him having no lines and doing stuff because he wants to only makes him more scary, he wasnt suppost to make little girls feel sorry for him, he was suppost to scare them

Edited April 13, 2013 by 100 beasts kaidou

[Orablanco Account 3,707]

Sombra is very underrated.

 

Anywho, yeah, The Crystal Empire. Nice adventure story to get us back into the swing of things.

 

Now, I actually do like MMC, but only because of the songs and the fact that it made me feel happy, despite being very rushed have that air of "wait, what?". The Hot Topic video from yesterday actually sold me on Twilight Princess better than MMC.

 

TCE makes me feel happy and is impressive all the way through.

[Shift 4,272]

I'm the only one who voted Magical Mystery Cure. I feel so alone X.X

 

I prefer MMC over TCE, because the Crystal Empire had a terrible villain, I don't really like Spike all that much, no Elements of Harmony, and Applejack was lying. I'm one of the few who like Twilicorn.

[Shanks 10,816]

not every villain has to fool around And have an emo backstory where he is misunderstood, King Sombra was like he had no soul, He was an ass kicker a demon a machine, Him having no lines and doing stuff because he wants to only makes him more scary, he wasnt suppost to make little girls feel sorry for him, he was suppost to scare them

True, but he still could have used a bit more dialogue and development even if he wasn't meant to be a sort of tragic villain figure like Nightmare Moon was. I am not saying they had to tell us his whole life story but I still felt like a little something was missing from him as a character.

[Genepool 224]

I've got to go with The Crystal Empire because I didn't like Twilight ascending to an alicorn/princess.  Don't like the concept of a pony being "secial," then suddenly ascending to that of a creature that embodies earth, pegasi, and unicorn.  Didn't mind Cadence too much, but Twilight's little ascension just rubbed me the wrong way.  Not to mention MMC just left things too open as Twilight's role was to become a princess through writing her own spell by finishing Star Swirl's unfinished spell.  Even if Twilight didn't ascend to an alicorn/princess, I probably wouldn't have liked MMC too much, though M.A. Larson did make the episode more palpable by making it into a musical piece.

 

With a bit more refining, The Crystal Empire could have been made into a really great, two-part episode.  Think the biggest mistake was King Sombra, and the writers should have turned him into a force of nature.  Make it so he was a unicorn in the beginning, have his mind corrupted, and then Celestia and Luna intervened to stop him.  He sat under the ice for so long that he was no longer a sentient being, but became darkness itself.  Turn him into the creature from The Never Ending Story where he was like The Nothing.  Have the darkness consistantly going after the Crystal Heart because it represents light in the world of Equestria, and the creature wants to destroy it, go where the crystal heart was, and just turn the world of Equestria into ash/nothing.  It's possible someone wanted to replicate The Fifth Element where Sombra was like the destroyer who wanted to bring darkness to the light, but toned things down too much since it was a kid's show. 

[Pony Of The Month 534]

 

 

no Elements of Harmony,

 

I agree. MMC was better than TCE. But do the Elements Of Harmony really need to show up every episode? Besides, the Crystal Heart isn't all that different from The Elements of Harmony...

[100 beasts kaidou 321]

True, but he still could have used a bit more dialogue and development even if he wasn't meant to be a sort of tragic villain figure like Nightmare Moon was. I am not saying they had to tell us his whole life story but I still felt like a little something was missing from him as a character.

Okay how do you think they would have done that since He isnt an idiot and Would attack anyone who isnt on his side. The proplem is that he Does more action Than talking, he attacked Shining instead of telling cheesy jokes that would caused his defeat. The only way I could see him talking is to his minions or after he defeats one of the princesses and syas something like "The age of the alicorns are over, the Age of Sombra Is NOW"

[Shift 4,272]

I agree. MMC was better than TCE. But do the Elements Of Harmony really need to show up every episode? Besides, the Crystal Heart isn't all that different from The Elements of Harmony...

 

Not every episode. It's just that they didn't appear in the opener, and normally in the openers we get EoH vs Villian. It was EoH vs Villain, but it shifted [i love Shift puns :3] into Spike vs Villain. And as I said before, I really dislike Spike.

[Pony Of The Month 534]

Not every episode. It's just that they didn't appear in the opener, and normally in the openers we get EoH vs Villian. It was EoH vs Villain, but it shifted [i love Shift puns :3] into Spike vs Villain. And as I said before, I really dislike Spike.

Well, I think it would be quite boring if the Elements of Harmony showed up in every single opener...

 

And I know that you don't like Spike, but he is a main character, and thus he deserves to have a moment to shine. 

[Shift 4,272]

Well, I think it would be quite boring if the Elements of Harmony showed up in every single opener...

 

And I know that you don't like Spike, but he is a main character, and thus he deserves to have a moment to shine. 

 

I agree on both points, it's just that it didn't appeal to me the way the first two openers did. Maybe because of badly developed villain, them spoiling the songs beforehoof...

[100 beasts kaidou 321]

I agree on both points, it's just that it didn't appeal to me the way the first two openers did. Maybe because of badly developed villain, them spoiling the songs beforehoof...

He was a monster who would kill at sight. he dint give a shit about who the mane six are, He dint give shit About anything but getting the crystal heart back. He is the Brock Lesnar Of MLP, Both have the same plan: To cause pain

 

Not every episode. It's just that they didn't appear in the opener, and normally in the openers we get EoH vs Villian. It was EoH vs Villain, but it shifted [i love Shift puns :3] into Spike vs Villain. And as I said before, I really dislike Spike.

Okay you are not making any sense, The EOH are not the only powerfull force in MLP and Every opener having the same ending is lame. Also it wasnt Spike Vs villain, It was Twilight Shining Cadence and Spike Vs Villain using tatics

[Sunbro 4 Lyfe 939]

Okay how do you think they would have done that since He isnt an idiot and Would attack anyone who isnt on his side. The proplem is that he Does more action Than talking, he attacked Shining instead of telling cheesy jokes that would caused his defeat. The only way I could see him talking is to his minions or after he defeats one of the princesses and syas something like "The age of the alicorns are over, the Age of Sombra Is NOW"

Ok. Heres my argument. His story goes that he ruled the crystal empire and enslaved all the ponies. Why? What was his motivation? He just waltzed in and took it? Did he own it before? Was sombras father the previous ruler? And I'm OK with a generic villan so long as something is unique. Design character personality whatever.

 

He is litterally a shadow with a head! From their first encounter he is just in a shadow. That's not unique. The others we're, apart from nightmare moon. But he is just bland and dull. And he never talks. Ever. I'm pretty sure he should say at least one thing thing other than "crystals" and "slaves"., thus giving him no personality. 

[Shift 4,272]

 

Okay you are not making any sense, The EOH are not the only powerfull force in MLP and Every opener having the same ending is lame. Also it wasnt Spike Vs villain, It was Twilight Shining Cadence and Spike Vs Villain using tatics

 

This is how it went.

 

First, it was Mane 6 vs Villain. (When at Crystal Empire)

 

They met cadence and shinning. Shining, Cadence, and Twi vs Villain.

 

Cadence fainted, and Shining helped Cadence. Twi vs Villain.

 

Twilight took Sipke with her. Twi and Spike vs Villain.

 

Twilight got trapped. Spike vs Villain.

 

Then Shining threw Cadence at the crystal heart, healing her and saving the kingdom.

[100 beasts kaidou 321]

Ok. Heres my argument. His story goes that he ruled the crystal empire and enslaved all the ponies. Why? What was his motivation? He just waltzed in and took it? Did he own it before? Was sombras father the previous ruler? And I'm OK with a generic villan so long as something is unique. Design character personality whatever.

 

He is litterally a shadow with a head! From their first encounter he is just in a shadow. That's not unique. The others we're, apart from nightmare moon. But he is just bland and dull. And he never talks. Ever. I'm pretty sure he should say at least one thing thing other than "crystals" and "slaves"., thus giving him no personality. 

You are forgetting that Crystals in MLP are same to cash in our world, In lots of Storys Shows or even real life there was this villain who wanted money, Sombras Motivation was greed, Compare Sombra to dragons, Alot of here Want a dragon as a villain, If the Motivation of that Dragon villain was to get all the Gems in the world for himself nobody would complain. But for Sombra he must have a Misunderstood reason and be a misunderstood emo who was abused as a child otherwise he cannot have fans and is worst villain. Really? Alot of Great villains all what they wanted was Money and their motivation was greed so why not sombra?

 

 

This is how it went.

 

First, it was Mane 6 vs Villain. (When at Crystal Empire)

 

They met cadence and shinning. Shining, Cadence, and Twi vs Villain.

 

Cadence fainted, and Shining helped Cadence. Twi vs Villain.

 

Twilight took Sipke with her. Twi and Spike vs Villain.

 

Twilight got trapped. Spike vs Villain.

 

Then Shining threw Cadence at the crystal heart, healing her and saving the kingdom.

No it was everypony vs Sombra, Even Celestia gave Twilight the way of using dark magic, The Mane Six Were keeping The Crystal Ponies away from sombra, Twilight and Spike where looking for the crystal heart, Cadence and Amour were keeping Sombra away in a none derict way, Nobody really standed a chance againts Sombra so they used tatics instead of throwing attacks that wont harm him. Also Shining was the only One Sombra could have hurt since Hasbro doesnt want women abuse in their shows that could cause angry moms

[Descant 1,898]

I preferred MMC. Overall, while I believe that it could have been pulled off better, it answered several questions the fanon had been struggling over for ages, including 'how one becomes an alicorn', and that being an alicorn makes you royalty without exception. The songs were simply fantastic and caused emotion, while the ones in the opener were, at least in my opinion, mediocre. 

 

The Crystal Empire was far worse tham MMC. First off. there's the issue of Sombra himself. King Sombra had an entirety of four words in the opener; "Crystal", "Ponies", "Slaves", and "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO". While I respect that this is due to the fact that he's based off of Sauron from LotR, in LotR Sauron seems a lot more real, due to, among other things, the presence of the Nine, and his Orkish armies of Mordor. What's Sombra got? Shadows, dark magical doors, and stairs. You could argue that this is an unfair evaluation, but I disagree. Compared to his base, Sombra's a bad villain, and compared to previous villains on the show, we don't get to see hardly any of him or his followers, which makes me question his legitimacy as a villain.

 

There's also the fact that we know practically nothing about Sombra except that he was an evil king of an ancient empire. Even Starswirl's more developed, and we haven't seen him at all on the show, not even in allegorical form as we did Clover the Clever in the ancestral Hearth's Warming play. 

 

 too much singing, 

 

How could you say there was too much singing? It was a MUSICAL episode. There was SUPPOSED to be a lot of singing. And the fact that these were arguably Daniel Ingram's best songs yet makes the 'too much singing' argument even more insubstantial. I don't think MMC was too short, either, as the fact that it was in song made it completely possible to tell a great deal of story more quickly and effectively than otherwise. 

[Sunbro 4 Lyfe 939]

@@100 beasts kaidou,

No that's not what I'm getting at. He has a generic motivation, generic appearance, generic personality, and generic way of returning. We don't need a back story, and yeah, he's kind of a bad ass. But It would help if we had at least a reason as to how he got hold of the  empire. But he still has way to many things about him which scream "I'm a generic villan come and write fanfics about me!"

 

Look that's just my opinion anyway. The episode was still better than the finale.

[Shanks 10,816]

How could you say there was too much singing? It was a MUSICAL episode. There was SUPPOSED to be a lot of singing. And the fact that these were arguably Daniel Ingram's best songs yet makes the 'too much singing' argument even more insubstantial. I don't think MMC was too short, either, as the fact that it was in song made it completely possible to tell a great deal of story more quickly and effectively than otherwise. 

I do agree that musicals can be effective tools for story telling but only if they are done right and I do not believe that Magical Mystery Cure did this right. The songs while they were by no means bad prove that sometimes there can be too much of a good thing, while "too much singing" is a bit of an oversimplification is a indeed true that the amount of songs was heavy handed because it significantly lessened the amount of dialogue making them feel like they were just slapped in to rush through toward the coronation at the end. A good musical always strikes the right balance between songs and dialogue and while that balance can vary depending on what kind of story the musical is trying to tell it is more difficult to tell a story such as alicorn Twilight in a musical episode because of the massive amounts of dialogue required for it to actually make sense.

[100 beasts kaidou 321]

I preferred MMC. Overall, while I believe that it could have been pulled off better, it answered several questions the fanon had been struggling over for ages, including 'how one becomes an alicorn', and that being an alicorn makes you royalty without exception. The songs were simply fantastic and caused emotion, while the ones in the opener were, at least in my opinion, mediocre. 

 

The Crystal Empire was far worse tham MMC. First off. there's the issue of Sombra himself. King Sombra had an entirety of four words in the opener; "Crystal", "Ponies", "Slaves", and "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO". While I respect that this is due to the fact that he's based off of Sauron from LotR, in LotR Sauron seems a lot more real, due to, among other things, the presence of the Nine, and his Orkish armies of Mordor. What's Sombra got? Shadows, dark magical doors, and stairs. You could argue that this is an unfair evaluation, but I disagree. Compared to his base, Sombra's a bad villain, and compared to previous villains on the show, we don't get to see hardly any of him or his followers, which makes me question his legitimacy as a villain.

 

There's also the fact that we know practically nothing about Sombra except that he was an evil king of an ancient empire. Even Starswirl's more developed, and we haven't seen him at all on the show, not even in allegorical form as we did Clover the Clever in the ancestral Hearth's Warming play. 

 

I already said that He Is too smart to talk to The people he wants to kill, and they were running away from him so he couldnt talk to them. Also I think That He is more of a fighter than a Ruler that being said He needs more fighting scenes than the other villains, since Shining Amor was the only Pony he could hit without having MLP canceled for Women abuse there wasnt that much he could do in a little girls show

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

Both had things that I enjoyed and things I didn't particularly enjoy, and both were a bit too focued on Twilight for my liking, but I think I'll say The Crystal Empire for several reasons.

 

1: I was actually ok with Sombra. He was the Fantasy Dark Lord archetype ponified. He just wanted power and control, much like Chrysalis, only without the villain song or as many lines. As a LOTR fan, I enjoyed the Sauron parallels. I actually liked the other villains (and for that matter, minor antagonists) better, but I don't think Sombra detracted from the episode.

 

2: Season 3 was a bit wacky and inconsistent on Spike generally, but this episode managed to give him attention and have it feel right. His siblingish relationship with Twilight was excellent, and I thought he added to the episode greatly.

 

3: Just the general vibe. I watch MLP for the slice of life aspect, and while I didn't particularly enjoy that the other Mane Six members got distraction duty while Twilight ran off to fix everything (I like the Mane Six saving the world together ) this did let them do several more casual things even in the context of an adventure episode, and give us several enjoyable moments from our favorite characters.

 

4: It felt like there was less that I had to ignore for the plot to make sense. Yes, the Crystal Empire randomly reappearing and never being really explained is a bit bizarre (I'm hoping Season 4 goes more into that) but it was more of a one-off thing. MMC felt like it was asking me to ignore that Applejack has family members who would probably notice that she'd moved over to Rarity's to make dresses and that flat-haired Pinkie was trying to do her job, that there are other members of the weather team who would likely have a problem with Rarity causing general meteorological mayhem, and that the community's happiness might not literally depend on Pinkie Pie.

[Descant 1,898]

I already said that He Is too smart to talk to The people he wants to kill, and they were running away from him so he couldnt talk to them. Also I think That He is more of a fighter than a Ruler that being said He needs more fighting scenes than the other villains, since Shining Amor was the only Pony he could hit without having MLP canceled for Women abuse there wasnt that much he could do in a little girls show

Too smart to talk? Well, would it have been asking too much to see even a smidgen of characterization? For being such a character-driven children's show, it doesn't make sense for a villain to be a fighter such as this, without any perceptible personality besides that of the typical power-hungry tyrant.

 

I can tell I'll be in the minority in this thread, anyway, but I've actually read a bit more into MMC than most would have. As has DigiBrony, but... I agree with all of his points, if you watch the video.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Both had things that I enjoyed and things I didn't particularly enjoy, and both were a bit too focued on Twilight for my liking, but I think I'll say The Crystal Empire for several reasons.

 

1: I was actually ok with Sombra. He was the Fantasy Dark Lord archetype ponified. He just wanted power and control, much like Chrysalis, only without the villain song or as many lines. As a LOTR fan, I enjoyed the Sauron parallels. I actually liked the other villains (and for that matter, minor antagonists) better, but I don't think Sombra detracted from the episode.

 

2: Season 3 was a bit wacky and inconsistent on Spike generally, but this episode managed to give him attention and have it feel right. His siblingish relationship with Twilight was excellent, and I thought he added to the episode greatly.

 

3: Just the general vibe. I watch MLP for the slice of life aspect, and while I didn't particularly enjoy that the other Mane Six members got distraction duty while Twilight ran off to fix everything (I like the Mane Six saving the world together ) this did let them do several more casual things even in the context of an adventure episode, and give us several enjoyable moments from our favorite characters.

 

4: It felt like there was less that I had to ignore for the plot to make sense. Yes, the Crystal Empire randomly reappearing and never being really explained is a bit bizarre (I'm hoping Season 4 goes more into that) but it was more of a one-off thing. MMC felt like it was asking me to ignore that Applejack has family members who would probably notice that she'd moved over to Rarity's to make dresses and that flat-haired Pinkie was trying to do her job, that there are other members of the weather team who would likely have a problem with Rarity causing general meteorological mayhem, and that the community's happiness might not literally depend on Pinkie Pie.

I feel responding to this, in addition to Digibrony's stuff, I can relay my feelings about these episodes well.

 

1. I love that Sombra is a Sauron parallel. I'm a fairly good fan of LotR myself. I just don't think they quite gave him justice.

 

2. About time that Spike gets some recognition. He got a freaking window. 

 

3. I'll give it that. I don't think The Crystal Empire was a bad episode, anyway, but the poor songs and poor portrayal of Sombra (in my eyes, I've already explained this) kind of killed it for me.

 

4. Okay, let me at it. Let me at it.

 

I've read a bit more into the episode than most have, and I don't think there are any plot holes at all, not with the Apples not questioning Pinkie's presence, nor the trees losing their leaves then spontaneously regaining them, nor any of that stuff. 

 

The spell Twilight cast changed the ponies' cutie marks and destinies, not just their cutie marks. It changed pretty much their entire life stories. The Apples didn't question Pinkie's presence, because only Twilight (and by extension Spike) knew that things had been changed from how they were supposed to be; everypony else was none the wiser. Including those effected, and the Apple family, the patrons of Sugarcube Corner, and all that stuff. ((This is my headcanon, but I believe that it's a fairly good explanation of what's going on.)) The Apples didn't question Pinkie's presence, because as far as they knew, Pinkie had been a worker on the Apple farm consistently, effectively replacing Applejack in that role the moment she found her cutie mark, at the Sonic Rainboom. The same could be argued for each of the rest of the Mane 6 who were affected. The lack of foliage on the trees reflects this fact, as far as Pinkie goes. If you notice, as soon as Applejack returns, coming to realize who she is truly meant to be, the leaves return, as if they had been under Applejack's care the whole time, rather than Pinkie's, since Applejack's destiny, as well as her memory and personal history, had been restored. 

 

As Twilight helps her friends come to realize who they truly are, and who they are truly meant to be, she comes to realize this herself, and Twilight's moment of full realization comes with the knowledge and power of the final parts of Starswirl's spell, which grants her the power to become something... more. The concept of power from full realization, and my knowledge of same, comes from Avatar: the Last Airbender; only a fully realized Avatar, or an Avatar that understands himself spiritually (and by extension, in personality) can harness the extreme power that is the Avatar State with complete control over same. The concept is much the same here. As Twilight (an Avatar, if you will) comes to full realization, the door to her true destiny was unlocked, granting her a higher power; alicornism, much the same as a fully realized avatar is granted control over their higher power. 

 

Does any of that make sense?

 

It's a lot more subtle of a thing for me to explain, but the density of MMC in itself is an art. The fact that it makes you think it, I think, what makes it such a turn-off to some bronies. It's like the argument of a novel vs. a short story; in a novel, there's a bunch of meaningless banter that is out of place, while in a short story, every little action, every little detail means something; it has to, due to the short length, a short story is so much more dense than a novel in its storytelling and its intrinsic value. To me, that makes the shorter works; the denser works infinitely more enjoyable, and as such, I think the pacing and length of MMC were utter perfection.