Is Sunset Shimmer the Worst Major Villain?

[Mywas 687]

Okay so I watched EGs and I was disappointed With sunset shimmer. she and Flash were the worst part of the film. NMN Discord Chrysalis and Sombra were all better than her. Now Lets see why:

 

1) Her Plan Was Stupid: Seriously. Wanting to take over equestria With a bunch of teenagers when Celestia, Luna, Cadence, Shining Armor and Freaking Discord where around. Even if she turns them all into demons Discord can still kick all of their asses.

 

2) Her Defeat Scene was Nothing new: Now all of the four Villains before her had different styles of defeats, Even If NMN and Discord were beaten by the same source But One was redeemed and the other was turned into stone. But Sunset on the other hand had a complete copy of NMNs Defeat Just with Humans.

 

3) She Does not bring anything into the group: NMN Had the Background Story. Discord had the Powers. Chrysalis Had Minions. Sombra Had Most Evil Mind. But she Had....

 

4) Her redeemtion was stupid: I was expection her to be Faking those tears and then jump into the portal Saying she will have her revenge. But noooo, She was really crying and she just wanted friends...Quite Pathetic compared to the other villains.

 

Edit: After some thoughts I think that she is better than Chrysalis.

Edited December 5, 2013 by What

[Rainbow Skywalker 642]

My basic problem with Sunset Shimmer is her resolution.  She attempts to enslave all of Equestria and then suddenly turns into just wanting to have friends.  Her punishment was also stupid. "You blew up half of the school, attempted to frame another student for trashing the prom, posted a video of that student in attempt to ridicule her, kidnapped a puppy, and stole a kingdom's greatest power source.  So we're just gonna make you rebuild that wall ok?"

[Orablanco Account 3,707]

The movie seemed to be under the impression that Sunset's problem was that she didn't know how to make friends. I must be really bad at reading characters, because I thought her problem was that she was a power-hungry wannabe dictator.

 

It's not so much that she was an inherently weak villain, because she actually has a really interesting backstory, what with being Celestia's former personal student, as well as possibly being considered for princesshood. But the movie expanded on none of that.

[Gigapony 650]

Personally I never interpreted her defeat as being her just simply changing her mind suddenly of her own accord and deciding she wanted friends. The way I saw it, she was 'cleansed' of the evil that corrupted her by the Elements. I saw it the same way for Luna as well. Even if she would've been physically beaten, she still would've carried on being evil, but the Elements purged that hard shell out of her and instead left her as the sad lonely girl she was at her core. So it made sense to me that she suddenly went from megalomaniacal to lonely sad girl, because it was a resolution she could never have come to herself. She needed to be "exorcised".

 

I have no idea if this was the writers' actual intent or not, but it's how I saw it.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Gigapony

[Amelia Monocle 112]

well she seems to be the first villain on the show to actually try and MURDER twilight.
has anyone else tried to do that? they might have tried to put her down, but turn into some satanic form and try to murder her... she was also in control of another world (or a highschool, which is what takes up most of a teenagers world) 
this is a kind of evil that people can relate to...  and even if it was for a breif second, she bought zombies into this movie... it may not be original, but c'mon, ya' can't say no to zombies.... i mean just saying that the "mlp movie had adolescent zombies in it" makes it 20% cooler...
I reckon that she was an awesome villain actually
and holy shizzle twilight has a love interest!!! so much fan art to draw...<(*o*)> 

Edited June 28, 2013 by Amelia Monocle

[immblueversion 331]

Personally I never interpreted her defeat as being her just simply changing her mind suddenly of her own accord and deciding she wanted friends. The way I saw it, she was 'cleansed' of the evil that corrupted her by the Elements. I saw it the same way for Luna as well. Even if she would've been physically beaten, she still would've carried on being evil, but the Elements purged that hard shell out of her and instead left her as the sad lonely girl she was at her core. So it made sense to me that she suddenly went from megalomaniacal to lonely sad girl, because it was a resolution she could never have come to herself. She needed to be "exorcised".

 

I have no idea if this was the writers' actual intent or not, but it's how I saw it.

 

And then I found, once again, that I was not alone in this fandom. God, I love you people.

 

Okay, sorry if that sounded hard on anyone who dislikes anything based on hard evidence rather than appreciating something for what might be but probably isn't. Oddly enough, I found merits to King Sombra based on what we didn't know about him.

[Gears of Halo Duty V 394]

1. What, stealing the most powerful Element of Harmony, rendering the others useless and therefore rendering one of Equestria's most powerful defense useless, and using it to mind control not only the teens but maybe even every other pony against the rulers isn't good enough?

 

2. I will give you this, but considering the movie focused on the elements in the first place (in one way or another), this shouldn't be too much of a surprise.

 

3. She is a student of Celestia and a teenager. Much more easy to relate to than the demigods of a magical kingdom. Her story is that of a bully, a problem that is pretty ample in schools. She was a cross between Sombra and Chrysalis imo.

 

4. The Elements pretty much have the power to suppress or rid of evil in the heart (something like that). The prospect of not having friends and that she has only driven away those close to her is similar to Discord's reform, which was well earned. The whole point is to show that sometimes, all that a person may need is a second chance. With kindness and hope, even a bully can change their ways for the better.

[Esk 201]

The movie seemed to be under the impression that Sunset's problem was that she didn't know how to make friends. I must be really bad at reading characters, because I thought her problem was that she was a power-hungry wannabe dictator.

 

It's not so much that she was an inherently weak villain, because she actually has a really interesting backstory, what with being Celestia's former personal student, as well as possibly being considered for princesshood. But the movie expanded on none of that.

That was her problem. She wanted a position of power quickly than she ever could through Celestia's guidance in Equestria, so she made herself powerful at a high school by harshly enforcing student segregation and going out of her way to embarrass/discredit any other student who wished to run against her as princess of any school event. But these are just school events, exposing how desperate Sunset is for power. You're correct with your impression on Sunset; the rendemption at the end was pulled out of thin air and doesn't make sense in comparison to what Sunset was doing previously. "I don't know anything about friendship," now that I think about it, sounds like a really bad excuse for Sunset to get away with all the awful things she did to the school, its students, and Twilight.

[Party Cannon 876]

Nope. Without a doubt King Sombra was the worst villain of the series. The Cockatrice had more character development and lines than him, my favorite being "BAH-KEH!" But really, Sombra was rushed and such a copy-paste villain.

 

There are some real contenders for the best though, like if you count Discord (which most do). Sunset Shimmer is not in the top 3, but she really held her own with sadistic cunning and bad...ness. You don't have to enslave an empire to be evil.

[Orablanco Account 3,707]

Nope. Without a doubt King Sombra was the worst villain of the series. The Cockatrice had more character development and lines than him, my favorite being "BAH-KEH!" But really, Sombra was rushed and such a copy-paste villain.

 

There are some real contenders for the best though, like if you count Discord (which most do). Sunset Shimmer is not in the top 3, but she really held her own with sadistic cunning and bad...ness. You don't have to enslave an empire to be evil.

True to the "not having to enslave an empire" thing, but then they did that whole stupid demon thing where she tried to conquer Equestria with zombies.

 

If they had just focused on her cunning and her relationship to Celestia and Twilight's current position, that would have been dandy. Great, even. But instead, they squandered her potential on a generic high school mean girl character, and not even a really memorable or well written one like in Mean Girls.

[Party Cannon 876]

True to the "not having to enslave an empire" thing, but then they did that whole stupid demon thing where she tried to conquer Equestria with zombies.

 

If they had just focused on her cunning and her relationship to Celestia and Twilight's current position, that would have been dandy. Great, even. But instead, they squandered her potential on a generic high school mean girl character, and not even a really memorable or well written one like in Mean Girls.

 

Indeed. I agree with you, Sunset Shimmer's writing if you will has flaws most certainly, specifically as you mentioned the holding back of her full potential. I may like her because she is basically the Über Trixie (even though I am not really a fan of Trixie), in the sense that while Trixie is a total hack and a fake, Sunset actually had the knowledge and power akin to Twilight. It was Star Wars/G.I.JOE-ish in that it was the good apprentice and the bad apprentice duking it out. I like that kind of stuff I suppose.

 

As for Sombra, only redeeming quality was "CRYYYYYYSTAAAALSSS!"

[Zygen 6,066]

Eh, depends on how you look at her. I mean her charactor development wasn't terribly good, but it was there. And she even had a backstory.

 

The problem comes in with her plan not really making much sense in the end. And her intentions less with her random redemption.

 

I can see Gigapony's way of thinking as being the way that makes most sense to me.

 

Sombra was the least developed really, and didn't have much of a backstory either, although he was powerful and looked cool.

 

So idk honestly. I can't say I know which one I'd pick as the worst. Even then I didn't find either that bad really. Idk maybe i'm just being ignorant or I'm just not very critical.

[Scootalove 10,689]

I don't think she was a major villain but, she was the only major villain in the movie. But, we have seen worst villains that never got a chance to enslave or take over anything until they returned to their throne. So, we could say Sombra but everybody knows that he had potential but as for Sunset Shimmer her plan is basically the same thing that every villain is. You guessed it.. take over the world.

Or as Sombra would say ''CRYSTALS!''

OF COURSE!

[NavelColt 22,880]

Personally I never interpreted her defeat as being her just simply changing her mind suddenly of her own accord and deciding she wanted friends. The way I saw it, she was 'cleansed' of the evil that corrupted her by the Elements. I saw it the same way for Luna as well. Even if she would've been physically beaten, she still would've carried on being evil, but the Elements purged that hard shell out of her and instead left her as the sad lonely girl she was at her core. So it made sense to me that she suddenly went from megalomaniacal to lonely sad girl, because it was a resolution she could never have come to herself. She needed to be "exorcised".

 

I have no idea if this was the writers' actual intent or not, but it's how I saw it.

 

Definitely a logical way to see it, and that's something I'll have to agree with as well. I enjoyed much of Shimmers' character basis; heck, when Sombra first had his screen time, I speculated that -he- was a disgruntled, power-mad student of Celestia over a thousand years ago, so the fact they took a modern version of that idea and used it with Shimmer was cool. I suppose she just had a few cliche moments for me, and, that, while your explanation makes perfect sense, the entire conclusion scene still felt rushed. Not to mention that they could have demonstrated somehow on-screen more obvious clues that she was 'exorcised' as it were, just so no one assumes that its' just bad writing.

 

I can't really rank her among the other four villains.

[Party Cannon 876]

@@Gigapony You really nailed this.

 

Not to mention that they could have demonstrated somehow on-screen more obvious clues that she was 'exorcised' as it were, just so no one assumes that its' just bad writing.

 

I can't really rank her among the other four villains.

 

The funny thing is that the negative hype really helped the reception of the movie, in that even if some parts were cliche and/or rushed it was not as bad as we anticipated.

 

As for the awesome exorcism thesis, they E o' H did turn her from a DEMON into herself again. Now that it has been presented to us, it does kind of seem pretty obvious. But meh, giving the writers the benefit of the doubt I suppose.  

[Mywas 687]

Indeed. I agree with you, Sunset Shimmer's writing if you will has flaws most certainly, specifically as you mentioned the holding back of her full potential. I may like her because she is basically the Über Trixie (even though I am not really a fan of Trixie), in the sense that while Trixie is a total hack and a fake, Sunset actually had the knowledge and power akin to Twilight. It was Star Wars/G.I.JOE-ish in that it was the good apprentice and the bad apprentice duking it out. I like that kind of stuff I suppose.

 

As for Sombra, only redeeming quality was "CRYYYYYYSTAAAALSSS!"

Sombras Lines is not only what he did. He is an actions speak louder than words villain. He defeated Shining Armor and attacked the Mane six. Lurked Around the shield Cadence made so she would pass out. Filled his Castle with traps That Twilight couldnt have figured if it wasnt for Celestia and Spike and thats only because Spike got theur late, if he was next to her when she opened the door using dark magic Sombra would have won. and He activated the last Trap by himself Eliminating Twilight making her useless. When Spike Jumped out of the tower Sombra attacked him without waiting a Second. And the only reason he lost was because Shining used the god tier wife throwing atack which would Kill Chuck Norris. So Him losing was a Fluke while Sunset Losing was her being weak.

[Rappy0 338]

To me yes she is, she had a lot of potential I mean a second student of Celestia hell yeah! Student vs Student let's go! But no, her backstory is never delved into and her plan just isn't very good, yeah she's the only one who would go as far as killing Twilight but she's the only villain that hated Twilight personally.

 

NMM didn't have a personal vendetta against Twilight she hated everypony and just wanted eternal night. Shes was successful in that if only for a few hours.

 

Discord wasn't interested in killing he just wanted to make chaos everywhere. If he killed somepony then that would be one less pony that he could mess with and I don't think he wants that. He was also successful, he made ponyville the chaos capital of the world for at least a week.

 

Chrysalis didn't want to kill she wanted to control all of Equestia and she was the strongest being in Equestria, she's the only pony (visually) that overpowered Celesita and she controlled Canterlot. She was only defeated because of her own cockiness and just being plan stupid.

 

Sombra didn't even know Twilight he already got what he wanted, he just wanted it back he was very successful he controlled the Crystal Ponies for a long while, long enough to scar them all (most for the rest of their lives) and give them all amnesia to the point of not being able to remember how to stop him w/o outside help.

 

Sunset hated Twilight and wanted her to die and wanted to control Equestia but unlike Chrysalis and Discord she had no chance she would never get all of her zombies through the portal in time before it closed again and she wouldn't get past the 3 alicorns, the royal guard, and Discord. Not to mention Chrysalis andher army is still alive and I don't think that they would take kindly to somepony taking over Equestria. Sunset was the least successful in her plan unlike the others she never reached her goal on any level.

 

That's why I think shes the worst villain.

[Carolina 212]

I wouldn't say worst villain, but she was definitely disappointing. She had potential to be a really interesting character (and still might, it she ever appears on the show), but most of it went unrealized.

 

I think the biggest problem is that the Mane Five made her plans (pre-stealing the crown) too easy by being completely stupid. I mean, all she had to do was hack into their emails/phones and make them think they had been wronged by one of their group and wham! Friendship over!  If they had just tried, I don't know, talking to each other, maybe they would have seen through her plans sooner. And why did she try to split them up anyway? Did she know they were potential Elements of Harmony? Or was she just being a spiteful bitch for the hell of it? I don't think a mean girl/Alpha bitch in real life would go that far out of her way to ruin someone's life.

[Megas 27,630]

Not the worst, but definitely the most disappointing. Behind that retarded plan and "mean girls" personality is a lot of meat that could've been one of the best villains in the show had they spent more time fixing the script. I did love her design though(both human and pony)

 

God I hope they do use her again, there's so much they can do

Edited June 29, 2013 by Godot

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,493]

Okay so I watched EGs and I was disappointed With sunset shimmer. she and Flash were the worst part of the film. NMN Discord Chrysalis and Sombra were all better than her. Now Lets see why:

 

1) Her Plan Was Stupid: Seriously. Wanting to take over equestria With a bunch of teenagers when Celestia, Luna, Cadence, Shining Armor and Freaking Discord where around. Even if she turns them all into demons Discord can still kick all of their asses.

 

2) Her Defeat Scene was Nothing new: Now all of the four Villains before her had different styles of defeats, Even If NMN and Discord were beaten by the same source But One was redeemed and the other was turned into stone. But Sunset on the other hand had a complete copy of NMNs Defeat Just with Humans.

 

3) She Does not bring anything into the group: NMN Had the Background Story. Discord had the Powers. Chrysalis Had Minions. Sombra Had Most Evil Mind. But she Had....

 

4) Her redeemtion was stupid: I was expection her to be Faking those tears and then jump into the portal Saying she will have her revenge. But noooo, She was really crying and she just wanted friends...Quite Pathetic compared to the other villains.

 

Thats all what I got. Now Before you say she had more lines than Sombra then that Would mean that the Old Hag In snow white was a better villain than Sauron.

1. Shimmer was banished into this world quite some time ago, obviously before Nightmare Moon returned (So no Luna) and Discord was still in stone (So no Discord) and she probably does not know Shining Armor or Cadence since again, she was in that world for a long time. The only one that she knows is there, is Celestia. Plus, if she turned all of those teenagers into demon beings, that would be pretty powerful against Celestia alone, which again, that is all she thinks. Remember, Celestia was defeated by Chrysalis so she does have her limits.

 

2. I see this as an homage TO Nightmare Moon and the original episodes. There were many little hints at the first episodes and honestly, I thought they were nice touches. Plus, Shimmer's emotions after her defeat were a lot more powerful in my opinion than Luna.

 

3. This point, I do not even understand. What exactly do you mean here? For one, Shimmer is staying in that world, so, comparing her to the others who are in the original world, does not make total sense. Even then, she took control over an Element of Harmony and was going to use it against Equestria. That is a bit different I'd say.

 

4. All we can have is opinion, but this one I just disagree with. Many have stated that her redemption was really cliche and blah blah, and in some ways, it might be, but there was a strong sense of emotion from that scene. Her crying and fully admitting that she had treated everyone horribly AND fully realizing that she may never be able to make friends with them, I nearly cried the second time I watched it, literally. I guess it depends on how deep you look into it.

 

Also, some have complained that it was really stupid that the excuse was she never had friends and all of that (Which, that actually is a good reason to be evil/misunderstood, or be a douche) but here is the thing, the show is called My Little Pony: FRIENDSHIP IS MAGIC. Of course that is going to be the main point. In this particular case, like I said, I thought it was very well done, because of the emotion of the scene. Plus, this is not the first time it was a cause for someone to be a douche to everyone, Discord was like that as well (In combination with his chaotic nature, just like Shimmer is in combination with her hatred to Celestia)

 

Again though, this is all just my opinion. I really enjoyed the film and I think Shimmer is quite the good villain and her in demon berserk form was actually intimidating.

[sibonny 18]

Not the worst, and no, I'm not a "amg Sombra needs to be better yush he like sucks he dont say anything and maaaaah I dont have enough imagination to create a personal theory/backstory for him WAAAH" kind of fan, honestly, Sombra is my favorite character. Yes,Sombra is my favorite and I regret nothing. Sombra is actually the most underrated character, he needs more attention due the fact that he is kind of the only evil villain. I mean Chrysalis just wanted to feed her subjects and herself, Discord was just laugh and fun, Nightmare Moon was just because of Luna's jealously but Sombra...he just wanted to torture ponies for fun and whatnot. And Sunset isn't really a main villain,on the movie yes but not otherwise. Basically 'The main 4' (remind me of the Main 4 of the thrash metal imao.) are Nightmare Moon,Discord,Chrysalis and Sombra, where Nightmare and Discord turned good. 

And again, Sombra doesn't suck, he just need more development and attention. He is just underrated,that's all. And for the 'Sombra talk..oh wait he doesn't' thing, I guess is more logical to put your plan in action that to tell your opponents what you want to do and whatnot.

[Castle Bleck 19,361]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.

[Sergios117 192]

The ending was garbage in an overall 7 out of 10 film. However, I do want to point out that Sunset Shimmer's punishment was suitable because anything else would involve her getting locked up and interrogated by the government.

[TasteTheRainboom 82]

I saw her as a charecter with great potential. She had an interesting backstory, she was manipluative, she was a real rival to Twilight. But that ending killed her to be honest. I feel it was really rushed, i saw the spoiler picks 2 weeks before i saw the movie, and when i saw a picture of her crying, i actually thought she was gonna get a really backstory explaining why she acted that way, maybe she was abused, maybe she was jelous... I wanted anything good, and yet we got the worst redemption in the show yet... So much lost potential...

[--Thunder Bolt-- 534]

1. Shimmer was banished into this world quite some time ago, obviously before Nightmare Moon returned (So no Luna) and Discord was still in stone (So no Discord) and she probably does not know Shining Armor or Cadence since again, she was in that world for a long time. The only one that she knows is there, is Celestia. Plus, if she turned all of those teenagers into demon beings, that would be pretty powerful against Celestia alone, which again, that is all she thinks. Remember, Celestia was defeated by Chrysalis so she does have her limits.

 

She knew that Twilight had the Element of Magic, and even knew exactly what it looked like (well enough to make a passable reproduction), so she would have had to know about Luna's return.  She knew about the ceremony in the Crystal Empire, and that Twilight would be there with her crown, so it seems pretty likely she would have known of the existence of Princess Cadence and Shining Armor, if not all of their history and powers.  So she would have known she was up against at least two, if not three Alicorn Princesses.  Could she have missed the return of Discord in her intelligence-gathering?  Maybe, but that would be a significant mark against her as a villain.  If you're going to plan the invasion of a world, and your intelligence operation is good enough to catch details like the timing and location of a ceremony, it doesn't look good if you miss that your opponents have an amazingly powerful new ally.  She would have known about the Royal Guard and the Crystal Guard and whole populations of unicorns, pegasi, and earth ponies with powers and abilities of their own.  She would have known that the other five Elements of Harmony and their wielders would be waiting for her on the other side of the portal.

 

Even if she was unaware of Discord and the extent of Cadence and Shining Armor's powers, she would still have had to know that her invasion was almost certain to fail.  It could be argued that she could use the Element of Magic to zombify ponies en masse, but she doesn't say as much when she's monologuing.  Instead, she refers to her "teenage army" as if they, rather than a horde of enslaved ponies she could create on the other side, where her main fighting force.  We're given no reason to think that she could zombify magical ponies.  Her plan is still ridiculous.

 

Again though, this is all just my opinion. I really enjoyed the film and I think Shimmer is quite the good villain and her in demon berserk form was actually intimidating.

 

Agreed, her demon form was quite imposing, and impressively powerful.  The writers could have rescued her plan in a few seconds by showing her zombification magic spreading through the whole human world.  That would have given her control of modern military and police forces (assuming she could find some way to retain control of zombies on both sides of the portal), and a logistical base of support. 

 

I still rate her as Worst Villain, but Best Antagonist.  The distinction I'm making here is that a "villain" is someone who engages in genuine criminality and/or threatens life and civilization, while an "antagonist" is someone who opposes the protagonist character(s), and may be quite mean, but never does anything worthy of jail time or death; the tier represented by Trixie, Diamond Tiara, and Glenda.  Most of Sunset's time in the the movie was spent being an antagonist--doing the Mean Girl stuff to ruin Twilight's chances of winning the crown.  On that level she did a pretty good job of using her familiarity with human technology to severely humiliate Twilight.  Unfortunately, the film's brevity did not leave time to show Twilight suffering under the mass ridicule Sunset's "campaign ad" would have caused. 

 

The film would have been better off without the vandalization of the dance/framing of Twilight subplot, since Summer didn't actually want to postpone the dance, plus "Y u no use Photoshop, Sunset?!"  Those vital minutes could have been used more effectively developing Flash Sentry's character or expanding on Twilight's humiliation and/or one of the other plot lines.  As is, it's another Bad Plan for Summer, depending as it did on Human!Luna being a complete idiot.  Aside from this, Summer was still a very good antagonist, wrecking friendships and plotting effectively against Twilight in the context of the "high school drama" plot line. 

 

IMO, it's when she suddenly turns into a demon and tries to go from "high school Mean Girl" to "major threat to Equestria" that she falls flat.  It's not really "Sunset's fault," more a problem with the attempt to hybridize a high school prom queen contest and a fantasy epic into the same plot, without providing the writers with nearly enough screen time to pull it off.   Since the real danger and dramatic stakes was "all the dastardly things Sunset can do using the Element of Magic for evil," it's really unfortunate that the film had to spend most of the time it had on the lesser, antagonist-level plot.  Imagine if Lord of the Rings had no Saruman, no Orc armies, until the last few minutes wherein Gollum suddenly snatches the Ring, turns into Sauron, turns a few dozen nearby people into Orcs and says "Now I'm going to conquer all of Middle Earth!  BWAHAHAHAHAAA!"

 

The frustrating thing about EG is that there's really no problem with the plot or characters that couldn't have been solved by making it a full-length movie.  And why not?  AFAIK Hasbro had already paid all of the major sunk costs, like arranging for theater distribution, DVD/Blu-Ray production, and (*puke*) the creation of the abominable dolls.  They had all the writers, animators, musicians, etc. on staff and were paying them anyway, to make FiM episodes.  It's not like they would have had to build any sets or do any expensive on-location shoots to film more scenes.  Given the chance, the creative talent could have made EG a 10/10 instead of 6/10, and I don't see how it could have failed to increase Hasbro's profits.