How did the vines capture Celestia and Luna so easily?

[Winona the Dog 1,984]

Ok so this is an. obvious plothole within the episode that we can all agree on should've been explained. How in Equestria did the tentacle/vines get both Celestia and Luna with such relative ease that nobody even noticed they were gone until it was toolate?

 

Obviously when we last saw Celestia in part one; one of the vines snuck up on her followed by Celestia screaming. Now I know Celestia isn't that weak that she can't even defend herself against a mere vine. Surely she and Luna would've made some noise to alert everyone else what was happening.

 

Awkwardly enough besides the single vine we saw attack Celestia, no other vines were in Canterlot. Only Ponyville was heavily attacked ( for obvious reasons)

[NavelColt 22,883]

Obviously when we last saw Celestia in part one; one of the vines snuck up on her followed by Celestia screaming. Now I know Celestia isn't that weak that she can't even defend herself against a mere vine. Surely she and Luna would've made some noise to alert everyone else what was happening.

 

Well, Celestia's guards haven't been shown to be all that reliable :3 Her screams probably fell on deaf ears.

 

 

Seeing as the vines' mere presence caused unicorns' magic to go on the fritz, clouds and other Everfree Elements to invade and cause serious mayhem, I actually don't find it all too unbelievable. These are Discord's seeds, after all, and Discord, being the most powerful creature shown on the show so far, I think, can easily subdue even the princesses with some of his more powerful tricks. This clearly being one of the most powerful of all.

[Champion RD92 8,658]

Yeah I was actually thinking the same thing. Also, how did the vine carry Luna and Celestia all the way to the Everfree Forest without anyone noticing???

[Argumedies 1,748]

I pondered this myself and I'm hoping for an answer later in the season (although I'm not holding my breath)

 

Only thing I came up with was... they let them

 

Maybe this whole opening was a set up conceived by Celestia, Luna and Discord to put Twilight on the spot to lead her down her path as future leader of the realms... who knows

 

Remember Celestia WANTED Discord un-stoned for a reason we have yet to uncover... unless we just saw it.

 

I could be wrong, but I didn't get the impression that this was just a random event set up long ago, only to be played out now

Edited November 24, 2013 by Argumedies

[Winona the Dog 1,984]

Well, Celestia's guards haven't been shown to be all that reliable :3 Her screams probably fell on deaf ears.

 

YouFailed.png

 

Seeing as the vines' mere presence caused unicorns' magic to go on the fritz, clouds and other Everfree Elements to invade and cause serious mayhem, I actually don't find it all too unbelievable. These are Discord's seeds, after all, and Discord, being the most powerful creature shown on the show so far, I think, can easily subdue even the princesses with some of his more powerful tricks. This clearly being one of the most powerful of all.

Heh good one though since Discord was the one behind it all I can only assume he just teleported them into the Tree or something...... otherwise I don't see how the vines took them all the way to the Tree of Harmony without being spotted.

[Misty Shadow 8,016]

A good question, but I personally think that episode opened up a much bigger..."plothole". If Nightmare Moon's goal was to kill Celestia, why would she not try to kill her again upon her return in the first episode? That had me thinking more than the vines deal, we've already seen that Celestia isn't THAT strong from her being defeated so easily by Chrysalis in A Canterlot Wedding.

[NavelColt 22,883]

Heh good one though since Discord was the one behind it all I can only assume he just teleported them into the Tree or something...... otherwise I don't see how the vines took them all the way to the Tree of Harmony without being spotted.

 

Dash demonstrated that the clouds are sticky. Maybe the vines restrained them and the clouds swept in and quickly airlifted them xP

[Meirno 550]

I pondered this myself and I'm hoping for an answer later in the season (although I'm not holding my breath)

 

Only thing I came up with was... they let them

 

Maybe this whole opening was a set up conceived by Celestia, Luna and Discord to put Twilight on the spot to lead her down her path as future leader of the realms... who knows

 

Remember Celestia WANTED Discord un-stoned for a reason we have yet to uncover... unless we just saw it.

 

I could be wrong, but I didn't get the impression that this was just a random event set up long ago, only to be played out now

 

 

You bring up a good point, because as far as I can tell, Discord purposely sent Twilight back in to the forest at the end the only way he would know how, by getting under her skin and agitating her very core of existence.

 

I do believe that this whole plot has been conceived by the princess' and Discord, because I've learned with Celestia, she speaks with very open statements sometimes, kinda like a lawyer would? Go back and listen to what she says to Twilight at the end about the keys and the box. 

 

Twilight: "What's inside it? How am I supposed to open it?"

Luna: "6 locks. 6 Keys"

Celestia: "I do not know where they are. But I do know it is a mystery you won't be solving alone."

[Metemponychosis 1,262]

The writers don't have a clue on how to deal with characters getting in the way of the plot.

Then the fans come up with the excuse that they wanted to be captured.

 

Easiest job ever.

[Argumedies 1,748]

The writers don't have a clue on how to deal with characters getting in the way of the plot.

Then the fans come up with the excuse that they wanted to be captured.

 

Easiest job ever.

It could very well be just that easy, but that would be the lamest excuse ever.

 

I don't know but this whole opening just screams "set up" at me and the biggest clue is in these vines capturing Celestia and Luna without so much as a struggle... hell they almost killed each other in the flash back... these vines would have been nothing to them.... unless they wanted it to look that way

 

Calling it now... its all a set up

Edited November 24, 2013 by Argumedies

[Metemponychosis 1,262]

It could very well be just that easy, but that would be the lamest excuse ever.

 

I don't know but this whole opening just screams "set up" at me and the biggest clue is in these vines capturing Celestia and Luna without so much as a struggle... hell they almost killed each other in the flash back... these vines would have been nothing to them.... unless they wanted it to look that way

 

Calling it now... its all a set up

It would if Celestia didn't scream like she did.

Well she could be acting... Just in case someone was nearby.... That would be interesting to see in a comic : )

We'll have to wait. My guess is that they did struggle. But those vines came from Discord... They may not have had the time to react and it overpowered them. I don't really like it, but it seems to be the case.

[SCS 7,537]

The vines had extremely powerful magical properties - they spread at a tremendous rate, they were difficult to destroy or contain, and they altered the weather. If they had the ability to do these things, I do not see it to be out of the question that they would be able to capture Princess Celestia and Princess Luna.

 

I feel that an important detail to consider is how Celestia and Luna were heavily wrapped up with vines and both next to the Tree of Harmony, which did not appear to happen to anyone else. Drawing from Discord's explanation/flashback he showed to Twilight Sparkle, it is safe to say that one of the main purposes he designed the seeds for was to capture Celestia and Luna. I am sure he is aware of how powerful they are, and would have therefore put enough magical power in these seeds to capture them.

 

It is also shown in the episode that magic - aside from the magic of the Elements of Harmony - is not that effective against the vines. Yes, Twilight was able to destroy a few vines, but there would be no way she could have fought all of them. It is possible that so many vines assailed Celestia and Luna that they were only able to defend themselves temporarily before they were captured. 

 

In addition, the magical protection inherent to the Tree of Harmony was only able to defend against the chaos seeds temporarily - albeit for a great expanse of time, namely over 1,000 years. This implies to me that the only magic able to defeat these seeds are that of the Elements of Harmony. That makes sense, as the seeds are a polar inversion of the Tree of Harmony not only in substance and purpose but in essence. However, as has been presented in the show on several occasions, no matter how powerful the dark magic an antagonist has, it is powerless against the Elements of Harmony.

 

Harmony is a core aspect of life and reality that is infinite and timeless - any attempts to obstruct it are transitory and fruitless.

[Wingnut 7,005]

I think SCS gave a pretty good rundown on this.  Discord's vines were no doubt programmed to seek out, subdue, and transport the two mightiest princesses to the Harmony Tree first.  Those vines would logically be the most powerful ones as well. 

[Argumedies 1,748]

The vines had extremely powerful magical properties - they spread at a tremendous rate, they were difficult to destroy or contain, and they altered the weather. If they had the ability to do these things, I do not see it to be out of the question that they would be able to capture Princess Celestia and Princess Luna.

 

I feel that an important detail to consider is how Celestia and Luna were heavily wrapped up with vines and both next to the Tree of Harmony, which did not appear to happen to anyone else. Drawing from Discord's explanation/flashback he showed to Twilight Sparkle, it is safe to say that one of the main purposes he designed the seeds for was to capture Celestia and Luna. I am sure he is aware of how powerful they are, and would have therefore put enough magical power in these seeds to capture them.

 

It is also shown in the episode that magic - aside from the magic of the Elements of Harmony - is not that effective against the vines. Yes, Twilight was able to destroy a few vines, but there would be no way she could have fought all of them. It is possible that so many vines assailed Celestia and Luna that they were only able to defend themselves temporarily before they were captured.

 

In addition, the magical protection inherent to the Tree of Harmony was only able to defend against the chaos seeds temporarily - albeit for a great expanse of time, namely over 1,000 years. This implies to me that the only magic able to defeat these seeds are that of the Elements of Harmony. That makes sense, as the seeds are a polar inversion of the Tree of Harmony not only in substance and purpose but in essence. However, as has been presented in the show on several occasions, no matter how powerful the dark magic an antagonist has, it is powerless against the Elements of Harmony.

 

Harmony is a core aspect of life and reality that is infinite and timeless - any attempts to obstruct it are transitory and fruitless.

OBJECTION!!!!!! Quit adding good logic to my conspiracy theories!!!!

 

I am kidding and you actually you make a valid point.

 

I know it shows the vines not being able to do so AT the tree, but what was stopping them when they were standing in front of Discord when he was tossing those seeds around?

 

To me it just doesn't quite add up... but then.. I suck at math

[SCS 7,537]

OBJECTION!!!!!! Quit adding good logic to my conspiracy theories!!!!

 

I am kidding and you actually you make a valid point.

 

I know it shows the vines not being able to do so AT the tree, but what was stopping them when they were standing in front of Discord when he was tossing those seeds around?

 

To me it just doesn't quite add up... but then.. I suck at math

 

You raise a valid point as well. Concerning why the seeds did not capture Luna and Celestia right then and there when he was tossing them around, two possibilities come to mind at the moment. One is that Discord did not want to risk trying that when they had the Elements of Harmony on them - I'm skeptical about that possibility though, because it seemed that Discord, at least at that point in time, had no fear of the Elements of Harmony. This would be due to the fact that he was still laughing when they turned him to stone - he did not seem to recognize the power of the Elements of Harmony until he was turned to stone. However, if he did indeed not fear the Elements of Harmony, why did he plant the chaos seeds? Was that just a random act of evil that he decided to commit, or did he do that because he knew he was about to be defeated? I don't know. Hopefully more details will be provided as the show progresses.

 

The second possibility that comes to mind is that it is possible that the seeds needed time to grow stronger, and/or they needed to corrupt the Tree of Harmony in order to have the ability to gain the necessary strength. Therefore, right when they began growing they were not yet powerful enough to capture Celestia and Luna. This seems like a reasonable possibility since Discord made a reference to the magic of the Tree of Harmony preventing the seeds from growing "big and strong," which could be why it took so long for the vines to grow powerful enough to capture Celestia and Luna.

Edited November 25, 2013 by SCS

[Philocleon 27]

If this is a set up then Twilight is going to be majorly pissed at Celestia, Luna, and Discord. She will give him some sort of magical thrashing that he definitely does not want to be on the receiving end of.

[Batbrony 16,056]

I know it shows the vines not being able to do so AT the tree, but what was stopping them when they were standing in front of Discord when he was tossing those seeds around?

 

To me it just doesn't quite add up... but then.. I suck at math

 

Well continuing where SCS left off, this is a key part of what makes Discord such a great villain: his deceit.  He was chomping on those suckers like he didn't have one buck to give in the world about what they were doing, or even what he was doing!  As far as I can tell, they had no idea what those seeds actually were, namely because it probably just appeared that Discord was just screwing around.  That deviousness, that mask of ridiculousness that Discord wears all the time, is what makes him such a sneaky bastard.  Yes, sometimes he really does just goof around, but other times he uses his tomfoolery as a means to hide his true purposes and intent.

 

Addressing your concern as to what was stopping them from growing right then and there, I think they really did need time to grow as SCS said, Tree of Harmony or not.  My guess is that Discord was counting on their abducting Princess Celestia and Princess Luna, in addition to squeezing the life out of the Tree of Harmony to boot, would be enough to throw Equestria into enough chaos that he would be freed as a result.  Perhaps that's why he was laughing his head off when they blasted him with the Elements; he figured he'd probably only be imprisoned for a week to a month tops.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Batbrony

[Argumedies 1,748]

 

You raise a valid point as well. Concerning why the seeds did not capture Luna and Celestia right then and there when he was tossing them around, two possibilities come to mind at the moment. One is that Discord did not want to risk trying that when they had the Elements of Harmony on them - I'm skeptical about that possibility though, because it seemed that Discord, at least at that point in time, had no fear of the Elements of Harmony. This would be due to the fact that he was still laughing when they turned him to stone - he did not seem to recognize the power of the Elements of Harmony until he was turned to stone. However, if he did indeed not fear the Elements of Harmony, why did he plant the chaos seeds? Was that just a random act of evil that he decided to commit, or did he do that because he knew he was about to be defeated? I don't know. Hopefully more details will be provided as the show progresses.

 

The second possibility that comes to mind is that it is possible that the seeds needed time to grow stronger, and/or they needed to corrupt the Tree of Harmony in order to have the ability to gain the necessary strength. Therefore, right when they began growing they were not yet powerful enough to capture Celestia and Luna. This seems like a reasonable possibility since Discord made a reference to the magic of the Tree of Harmony preventing the seeds from growing "big and strong," which could be why it took so long for the vines to grow powerful enough to capture Celestia and Luna.

If this second part is true and they needed the time to mature, then that would have been a major mistake on Discords part.

 

His over confidence was his own undoing.

 

But that wouldn't explains. Why now.

 

If these vines were meant to stop Celestia and Luna... why allow Twilight to put them back in the tree and make the tree strong again. If the vines were strong enough to stop them, why weren't they strong enough to stop Twilight?

 

If Discord wanted the EoH back in the tree, what's stopping Twilight from getting them back out?

 

So many questions... so little season

 

Guess well just have to wait and see... I hate cliffhangers lol

[Nature's Spell 526]

Discord is a goofball, it's that simple. He's so chaotic and random and overconfident that he can't, or doesn't, want to get out of his own way. The why is difficult to say, but why anything happens in Equestria is also hard to pin down. Everything is a "thousand years" without a good reason why.

[DarligPegasi 315]

I do agree that Celestia and Luna should have been a lot stronger and maybe when Ce-Ce was show being kidnapped, a bigger vine should have done the deed, but I think they were taken so easily because the vines were originally meant for them. I mean if you think about it, Discord said that the vines should have gotten them ages ago, but the tree was blocking them with a current/force field of magic. So if a force is constantly pushing up and up and trying to get out and suddenly the thing holding them back disappears? All of that force and energy is going to cause them to shoot up, move very quickly towards their original and main target while simultaneously infesting and polluting the nearby surroundings. Plus they were seeds from a creature that basically represents powerful chaos. So I don't think it was that unbelievable that the vines were strong enough to take the Princesses down. 

 

Plus the tree might have something to do with it too. I would be mad as all get out if the things that were keeping me grounded and powerful were taken away from me. 

[Castle Bleck 19,394]

Much like with Sombra's crystals, Discord's plants were explicitly shown to be able to hinder others' magic.

Edited December 16, 2015 by A.V.

[ShadOBabe 19,014]

I won't argue about how they could have been captured my the vines because others here have already made great cases that I agree with.

But someone asked, "How could those vines drag them to Everfree without anyone noticing?"

 

Well... you're just assuming they were dragged away above ground.

Considering the vine that grabbed Celestia came burrowing up through the solid stone floor of the castle, I don't doubt in the least that they could have been dragged away through an underground tunnel.

 

Or even worse (though admittedly not as likely), the vines are magical in nature... what if when they grabbed Celestia and Luna, they were sort of... well... broken down into an ethereal form, siphoned back to the forest, and reconstituted there?

Creepy, but unlikely, since the vines grab tons of ponies in the episodes and we never see that happen.

 

But that just makes me fall back on the more likely, but only SLIGHTLY less scary, theory that they were dragged away kicking and screaming into a hole in the ground... *shudders*

[GrifCannon 102]

If this second part is true and they needed the time to mature, then that would have been a major mistake on Discords part.

 

His over confidence was his own undoing.

 

But that wouldn't explains. Why now.

 

If these vines were meant to stop Celestia and Luna... why allow Twilight to put them back in the tree and make the tree strong again. If the vines were strong enough to stop them, why weren't they strong enough to stop Twilight?

 

If Discord wanted the EoH back in the tree, what's stopping Twilight from getting them back out?

 

So many questions... so little season

 

Guess well just have to wait and see... I hate cliffhangers lol

Its quite possible that the Elements of Harmony were providing the Mane 6 some limited protection from the vines passively. My other idea is that they were using the majority of their strength restraining Celestia and Luna.

 

Also, on the topic of twilight retrieving the elements at any time from the tree, you have to remember that we don't know how long the elements were in the tree before the sisters claimed them. We just know they left enough magic in the tree to protect it for 1000+ years. Its possible that the tree is still "recharging" and if twilight were to remove the elements now, the vines would return or the forest would grow out of control again.

 

Remember Celestia's line "the tree will continue to control and contain all that grows here" seeing as she had no knowledge of the discord vines, she clearly meant that the forest itself still needs to be contained.

 

Edit: Also, it would be really inconvenient for the mane 6 to have to travel to the Everfree forest every time they needed to use the elements.

Edited November 25, 2013 by GrifCannon

[thatonelass 1]

I know this thread has been dead for awhile, but I want to share a theory a friend of mine and myself have been discussing, and it's relatively close to what others have been saying here: 

 

Discord and Celestia have been playing a long, drawn out game of chess, using ponies as pieces (or in Discord's case, magic and the environment). It's pretty plausible, considering what happens throughout the seasons. Celestia wanted Discord released, to continue the game they had been playing, as Celestia had finally found a pawn (Twilight) who has a chance of crossing the board and becoming a Queen (alicorn). 

 

I don't believe Celestia is as powerful as she lets on; while she does seem to know some amount of advanced magic, it's very limited compared to Twilight or even Starswirl. She relies heavily on others to complete tasks, her only duties are ruling and raising the sun (and even the moon, in her sister's absence). While these are no small feats, it's what's within her talent, so it shows even alicorns are limited by cutie marks. So she may not have been able to defend herself against these particular vines, not that she even really wanted to.