The Fandom's (Second) Worst Trait: Crippling Over-Speculation

[MissDashie 275]

*WARNING* Lengthy rant inbound. This doesn't apply to all or even most of the fandom, but a select few. 

 

I have voiced my immense irritation with this fandom's constant negativity (such as whining about new episodes and always complaining and just generally being unpleasable) plenty of times before, so I'm not going to waste my digital breath on that one this time around. This time, I'm taking aim at what I think is the second worst thing this fandom does: Overthink everything, and in doing so, take the magic out of the show. 

 

Let me contrast two examples from different media before I go any further. The first is Star Wars. (The original trilogy, not those horrific prequels that I'm still in denial about) There are so many moments in Star Wars that don't really add up, and just plain don't make logical sense. Like Han Solo claiming to do the Kessel run in "12 parsecs" when a parsec is a unit of distance, not time. Or the fact that space battles are illogical because all of the ships act like warships on a flat ocean, instead of in three dimensional space. (For example, why didn't the Rebel Fleet just fly under the Imperial blockade at Endor and attack them from behind, instead of exposing themselves needlessly to the Imperial turbolasers that were only placed on top of the Star Destroyers?) However, we just laugh and handwave those things aside, and generally just make the occasional joke about them. 

 

Now, with my second example, I'm going to make an example of what many Bronies would say to this scene theoretically. The scene I am talking about is the closing scene of Ratatouille. Most of you have probably seen it, and I personally find it very heartwarming. However, a typical over-speculating Brony would nitpick the scene to death, asking questions like

• All Remy did to the Ratatouille dish was add the sauce, anyone could have done that! So why was he even there in the kitchen if the other cooks could replicate his work effortlessly?
• How did Remy work as head chef at a different restaurant and have nobody find out? I mean, he peeks his head through the window all the time! Are they trying to tell us that everyone is just okay with a rat cooking for them?
• Why is Ego so much kinder now? It was just one meal, what changed? (Proceed to over analyze a fictional characters psychological profile and speculate on his whole life to explain one bit of character development)

Obviously, over-speculating and over-analyzing something, especially a fairly basic and "kiddy" cartoon  like MLP, is going to reveal gaps and inconsistencies. SO WHAT?! I enjoy the show and don't over-think every little detail of it, because doing so ruins the fun. Looking at everything through gray tinted lenses and searching for logic and cohesion in a show about pink and purple unicorns and ponies ruled by a winged unicorn that is the Princess of the Sun is illogical in and of itself! 

 

Okay, rant over. Thank you very much if you actually read all of my rantings and unladylike ravings! 

[Shanks 10,811]

There are over analysers in every fandom ever and that will never change but they really don't bother me all that much. Some of it is ridiculous and some of it is trolling but I don't see it as something worth getting upset over. If someone wants to pick apart and overthink something than let them, it hasn't affected my enjoyment of other fandoms before and I won't let it affect me enjoyment of this one either.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,857]

-snipped-

http://mlpforums.com/blog/1290/entry-8791-why-complaining-about-over-analyzing-is-wrong/

 

I addressed how to handle this sort of thing in the blog entry I'm linking you, and I'd appreciate if you'd take the time to look over it, as I think this is the proper perspective of how to handle this sort of thing you're speaking of in your rant.

 

[MissDashie 275]

http://mlpforums.com/blog/1290/entry-8791-why-complaining-about-over-analyzing-is-wrong/

 

I addressed how to handle this sort of thing in the blog entry I'm linking you, and I'd appreciate if you'd take the time to look over it, as I think this is the proper perspective of how to handle this sort of thing you're speaking of in your rant.

 

 

That makes sense, and is very articulate. I respectfully disagree with it, but I respect it nonetheless. However, I wasn't aware that other people voiced the same complaints (possibly in a more belligerent way, as it sounds in your blog) as me. I am very new to both being part of any sort of fandom, (the concept was alien to me until like 2 months ago) and to being a member of this forum.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,857]

That makes sense, and is very articulate. I respectfully disagree with it, but I respect it nonetheless. However, I wasn't aware that other people voiced the same complaints (possibly in a more belligerent way, as it sounds in your blog) as me. I am very new to both being part of any sort of fandom, (the concept was alien to me until like 2 months ago) and to being a member of this forum.

That's understandable, and I had I felt you were being belligerent like others, I wouldn't have bothered linking you that whole article I wrote

 

I'm just saying, that even though there's people who are like the ones you're complaining about, the majority of the members who actively participate in Show Discussion aren't like the ones you brought up, and it's bothersome to see the ones who enjoy analyzing the show attacked because of a small portion of the group Now, I don't think you attacked anyone, personally, but I'd just like to point this out. We're not all bad over there, trust me

[zev_zev The outcast 415]

Some Russian brony created the formula what explain how Rainbow Dash (and most of pegasi too) can fly with such small wings. He also calculated, what is the speed of flight should be to make sonic rainbom. And that what I calling over analysing.

[MissDashie 275]

That's understandable, and I had I felt you were being belligerent like others, I wouldn't have bothered linking you that whole article I wrote

 

I'm just saying, that even though there's people who are like the ones you're complaining about, the majority of the members who actively participate in Show Discussion aren't like the ones you brought up, and it's bothersome to see the ones who enjoy analyzing the show attacked because of a small portion of the group Now, I don't think you attacked anyone, personally, but I'd just like to point this out. We're not all bad over there, trust me

 

Fair enough. And I don't mean the ones who simply analyze the show, that's different than what I was addressing. I mean, simply asking the question "Why doesn't Pinkie's Pinkie Sense show up in more than a handful of episodes?" is a legitimate question. Asking "What biological differences does Pinkie posses to have a sixth sense that is so inconsistent and seems to come and go, yet only appears at opportune moments?" is not simple analyzing, its over analyzing. 

 

Some Russian brony created the formula what explain how Rainbow Dash (and most of pegasi too) can fly with such small wings. He also calculated, what is the speed of flight should be to make sonic rainbom. And that what I calling over analysing.

 

Russians

. 

[Taviscratch 453]

Some of the over-analysis is done for fun. Bronies know that a show with multiple writers will have inconsistencies and errors but finding these and then attempting to rationalise them in relation with the canon lore can be a pretty entertaining pastime. After all, that is how fan canon is usually created. Finding inconsistencies in the history of Equestria and then attempting to find a solution is especially fun. A show which allows people to do this is a good show worthy of a sizable fandom which can discuss their various theories and fan canons.

[Fhaolan 4,468]

Well, I respect your opinion, but I disagree with it. For me, the fun *is* in trying to construct a cohesive setting from what little we see in the show, for use in fanfictions and roleplaying and whatnot. It's how I have fun, working out how it all hangs together, and how we can extend what we know into other directions.

 

Different people have fun in different ways. I don't expect you to enjoy my ramblings, anymore that I expect all Lord of the Ring fans to read all of Tolkien's appendixes or notes on how he developed the various scripts and languages. I do it to entertain myself, and only put it in my Blogs here on the off chance other people will be entertained by my ramblings.

 

However, telling me that I'm 'doing it wrong', and that I shouldn't enjoy doing what I do is rather annoying. I'm not being mean about what I do, and I try very hard to not be angry or insulting about it. That style of over-analyzing grates on me after awhile.

[Skylar 1,641]

*WARNING* Lengthy rant inbound. This doesn't apply to all or even most of the fandom, but a select few. 

 

I have voiced my immense irritation with this fandom's constant negativity (such as whining about new episodes and always complaining and just generally being unpleasable) plenty of times before, so I'm not going to waste my digital breath on that one this time around. This time, I'm taking aim at what I think is the second worst thing this fandom does: Overthink everything, and in doing so, take the magic out of the show. 

 

Let me contrast two examples from different media before I go any further. The first is Star Wars. (The original trilogy, not those horrific prequels that I'm still in denial about) There are so many moments in Star Wars that don't really add up, and just plain don't make logical sense. Like Han Solo claiming to do the Kessel run in "12 parsecs" when a parsec is a unit of distance, not time. Or the fact that space battles are illogical because all of the ships act like warships on a flat ocean, instead of in three dimensional space. (For example, why didn't the Rebel Fleet just fly under the Imperial blockade at Endor and attack them from behind, instead of exposing themselves needlessly to the Imperial turbolasers that were only placed on top of the Star Destroyers?) However, we just laugh and handwave those things aside, and generally just make the occasional joke about them. 

 

Now, with my second example, I'm going to make an example of what many Bronies would say to this scene theoretically. The scene I am talking about is the closing scene of Ratatouille. Most of you have probably seen it, and I personally find it very heartwarming. However, a typical over-speculating Brony would nitpick the scene to death, asking questions like

• All Remy did to the Ratatouille dish was add the sauce, anyone could have done that! So why was he even there in the kitchen if the other cooks could replicate his work effortlessly?
• How did Remy work as head chef at a different restaurant and have nobody find out? I mean, he peeks his head through the window all the time! Are they trying to tell us that everyone is just okay with a rat cooking for them?
• Why is Ego so much kinder now? It was just one meal, what changed? (Proceed to over analyze a fictional characters psychological profile and speculate on his whole life to explain one bit of character development)

Obviously, over-speculating and over-analyzing something, especially a fairly basic and "kiddy" cartoon  like MLP, is going to reveal gaps and inconsistencies. SO WHAT?! I enjoy the show and don't over-think every little detail of it, because doing so ruins the fun. Looking at everything through gray tinted lenses and searching for logic and cohesion in a show about pink and purple unicorns and ponies ruled by a winged unicorn that is the Princess of the Sun is illogical in and of itself! 

 

Okay, rant over. Thank you very much if you actually read all of my rantings and unladylike ravings! 

 

I wish I could personally fly over there and give you a high five  

 

Nothing more to be added, so true and very well said  

[duidamasterXD 9,626]

I think there's a line to walk. On the one hand, there are some things that are just inconsistencies and cannot be said to have been put in by the writers at all. On the other hand, there comes a point where it's somewhat insulting to the show, to say that we'd enjoy it more if we just wouldn't think about it.

Fair enough. And I don't mean the ones who simply analyze the show, that's different than what I was addressing. I mean, simply asking the question "Why doesn't Pinkie's Pinkie Sense show up in more than a handful of episodes?" is a legitimate question. Asking "What biological differences does Pinkie posses to have a sixth sense that is so inconsistent and seems to come and go, yet only appears at opportune moments?" is not simple analyzing, its over analyzing.

Only went back and read this after I had started making my post. I can get behind this. But if it's just for fun and you're not expecting Song of Ice and Fire level worldbuilding, planning, and consistency to ever be a thing in the show, I don't see much harm in it either.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Tsubasa Shiina

[FlutterDash4072 189]

Different people have fun in different ways. While some of the analysis done by the fandom is over the top, I don't see it as a problem. From what I've seen, when people do that here, it's mostly contained to blog posts meant for other people who like that sort of thing. There's nothing wrong with either way of watching the show, but when you don't like how other people enjoy it, you can just ignore it.

[Princess Lona 381]

I am a theatre person. I study and practice theatre. I chose to study theatre because I already loved being told stories and telling stories. A part of good storytelling is detail, and a part of being a good audience member to a story is caring about all the details of the story you are being told. So I don't consider any amount of analyzing to be "over-analyzing", it's just good audienceship. In fact, I would say the more a piece of art is analyzed, the more engaging and therefore better it probably is. And people will make their analysis through mediums in which they are already talented or interested. If that Russian guy wanted to create a formula showing how Pegasi can fly I say good for him! If I was more into math I would probably find it fun too. I'm more into influencing culture, so I like to analyze plots and the messages they send, and speculate on what kind of messages future plots might send. I wouldn't be a member of this fandom if I didn't care enough to wonder why Queen Chrysalis was able to maintain the level of power she got from Shining Armour's love even after she revealed herself and was clearly not receiving that love anymore.

[Wayzer 1,418]

I kinda agree with it. It's just a show, you can like it or you can't. But please don't berate every single thing that is even slightly wrong

[Bucky McGillyCuddy 956]

You know that saying "Everyone's a critic"? Yeah, welcome to the fandom...

[Hive King 1,998]

This is nothing, see the DBZ fandom for over analyzing. Conversations on Gravitational Binding Energy and percentages are common. 

[Sir Wulfington 276]

Except inconsistencies/plot holes can ruin a series completely, as they can destroy the believability of the story, which is extremely important in good writing. A story will have it's own pre-made sense of logic in it's setting (like magic can exist, for example, in some, or talking animals, etc.). If the story ceases to make sense within it's own established sense of logic than the story can no longer work, because all believability in the plot is gone..

 

I don't get how some people can just hand-wave major holes in a story like it's nothing, like, I would figure people watch a show, or a movie, or read a novel because they want good quality writing, not just "fun", but I guess not.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Sir Wulfington

[Heatwave 177]

Well, it's obvious from what I've seen of ratatouille, that Remy is there for a presence at the end. Think about it, if he really is "on the run" from the critics/health inspectors, than why would he look through the window so often? Because the people know he's there, and they want him to be. Sure, he adds a dab of sauce on a dish occasionally to make it appear like he's doing something, but all in all, he's there to put on a pretty face for the customers while the humans do the cooking. After all, they had to pass an initial health inspection somehow, did they not? The food apparently turned out so good, they thought: "Don't fix what ain't broke" and thus remy became a face. It's so obvious by the name of the restaurant and such that's all he is now.

And to address Ego, the ratatouille that he ate in the old restaurant was in and of itself a memory of his childhood. The reason he acts so kinder is because, well, look what he ordered right before. Ratatouille. He's basically addicted to it now, as he's had such a negative vengeful life, when he finally found that one thing that brought him joy like nothing else, he clung to it and he'll never let go. He loves it so much, it turns him into his memories, and makes him giddy about it.

And don't get me started on the "restaurant" for the mice. I mean, it's a cool idea and all, but to have them all, for the longest time, say no to real food, to turn and eat at a restaurant on a dime? Not Likely. OK, I suppose they could be serving some sort of garbage ratatouille special or something, but that still doesn't change the fact that garbage is located everywhere. Why go to a restaurant and pay for it? Because it can come stacked neatly on a plate? I highly doubt the rats care about that. My opinion is that it is merely to support remy. Sure the show shows them having a good time and all there, and that's still plausible, but they know it's a pointless endeavor to have a rat restaurant, but remy probably begged them to try it out and they obliged to be polite. However, I imagine that section of the restaurant will be deserted in a matter of days. They have other garbage to grab.

 

-------------------------------

 

Ok, I'm done, you can start reading again.

 

1668 characters on a very basic overanalyzation, which really isn't that long if you ask me, and I'll be surprised if more than 10 people here read it.

I was trying to prove a point...did it work?

The point?

Overanalyze, fine. I really don't care. Even provide synopsis when appropriate of your findings. But for the love of all that is good and virtuous, please do not type up a wall of text where no one cares to read it. Among colleagues in overanalyzation, sure, but not among us common-folk. I do not care to read 1668 characters on the last 3 minutes of a kids movie, let alone triple that on a half hour kids cartoon about colorful talking ponies learning about the magic of friendship. I mean honestly.

 

Sure, "If you don't want to read it, than don't" is a valid point, but I've seen what that accomplishes. I've seen the effects of overanalyzation on this fandom. I've seen people get sick and tired of others constantly getting nit picky about every detail in the show, whether they read the analysis or not.

I respect the hobby that some people have, and let them do what they may, but keep it to yourself and those that care, please.

 

I would go on, but thanks to the first section of this post, I've been typing up this single response for far too long.

[Clover Heart 978]

You enjoy the show for its simplicity. That's you. Other people may also enjoy the show for its simplicity. However, some people enjoy analyzing the show. They enjoy nitpicking details and discussing that. Moreover, if it's okay to criticize media aimed at adults, it's okay to criticize media aimed at kids. Kids' shows shouldn't be exempt just for being kids' shows. Take a look at gen 3.5. That's a kids' show and nobody has a problem with it being criticized. But because it's a kids' show and people like it, it's suddenly exempt from criticism? I don't buy it. In fact, if it is a good show, it can make analysis of it enjoyable.

 

MLP:FiM has made a ton of unique lore for itself. It's interesting. People want to know more about the lore, the world, everything. So if they don't understand something, they want to know more about it. I posed a question a while back about why, if Shining Armor (and subsequently, people brought up Blue Blood as well) is royalty is he not an alicorn. It was an inconsistency in the lore that was kinda bothering me, so I asked about it, and I got some satisfying answers, most prevalent being that maybe only females can be alicorns. So something that was bothering me about the show stopped bothering me. Maybe other people do it for similar reasons.

 

There's some enjoyment had from talking about details such as this. If you don't like it, you don't have to read or participate. but let others have their fun in over-analysis and you can have yours in your appreciation for simplicity. Fair?

Edited December 23, 2013 by Clover Heart

[Fhaolan 4,468]

Daring Bat, on 23 Dec 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

Ok, I'm done, you can start reading again.

 

1668 characters on a very basic overanalyzation, which really isn't that long if you ask me, and I'll be surprised if more than 10 people here read it.

I was trying to prove a point...did it work?

Nope. I read the entire thing. Trying to convince me of something with an angry and derisive attitude doesn't work very well, I'm afraid.

 

I disagree with the first third of your analysis, but that's likely because I've spent time in a high-end kitchen thanks to my Mum, who was a Saucier before she retired. (I was the Plonguer, I washed dishes and floors and whatnot as I was too young to really 'work'.) First off, there is only one Chef de cuisine in a kitchen who is addressed as 'Chef', the only time other people are addressed as Chef is if the Chef de cuisine is not in the kitchen. The Chef is like a manager, and one that usually follows the micro-managing style. S/he is responsible for everything that comes out of the kitchen, and monitors, criticizes, and instructs everyone else. In a big kitchen for an exclusive restaurant the chances that the Chef will even put sauce on a dish is pretty remote. That's not his/her job; depending on the Chef if s/he actually does something like that then likely there's a Saucier who will be out of work by the end of the evening for failure to properly perform their task. If s/he is doing any actual cooking, it will be a special signature dish for that night that no-one else will be allowed to come near. Unless the Chef has picked out one of the junior cooks as a protégée, and is actively training them to eventually become the Sous Chef.

 

I found the movie to be a pretty accurate representation of the restaurant business, actually. The critic that changed attitudes completely because he was faced with a dish that wasn't pretentious nonsense for a change, but actual proper *cooking* like what he grew up on. Seen that happen. The colony of rats who discover that properly prepared food is worlds better than the fast-food garbage that they were living on, is also within my range of experience, if you substitute University Students for Rats, which isn't that far of a stretch.

[ovr9000percentcooler 107]

I honestly don't have a problem with analyzers, like Tommy Oliver and DigiBrony, I feel some people just get their kicks from doing that kidna thing, and I can get behind that. What I don't like is OVER doing it. Like whether or not Daring Do was a good episode or not. I personally liked that episode, I didn't let the fact Daring Doo was real bother me. I just enjoyed it. 

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

I do like analyzing things, but I agree with your point. I consider what you've described more nitpicking because it's taking a small flaw and stretching it out until it's much more significant than it actually is.

 

Analyzing things is fun and can be a good mental exercise to keep the wheels greased and keep inspiration flowing, but picking at every-single little flaw like a scab while ignoring all the positive aspects of something is bad. Myself, I prefer the positive "over analyzing" that goes towards world-building and posing interesting ideas rather than mercilessly tearing the show apart. 

[Guest90210 3,567]

Well, of course you're going to see a lot of over analyzing on a forum partially dedicated to analyzing the show.

 

People usually over analyze MLP because it's fun. If you can look deeply into the positive aspects of the show I don't see why you can't look deeply into the negative aspects and discuss them thoroughly.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,401]

I notice a lot of people are saying that over-analyzing is 'fun'....fair enough, but my problem is that I hardly ever see people on these forums who happen to over-analyze and nitpick everything, doing so in a 'fun' matter. More often, it is something that they are addressing a sheer complaint about. Something that they completely dislike even if it is minuscule. These people tend to, not always, but tend to apparently expect everything in the show to go a certain way and if it doesn't, then that episode was bad or whatever.

 

Not every analyzer is like that of course, but that really doesn't sound like fun to me....Personally, I am not fond of any of it.

[Heatwave 177]

Nope. I read the entire thing. Trying to convince me of something with an angry and derisive attitude doesn't work very well, I'm afraid.

 

I disagree with the first third of your analysis, but that's likely because I've spent time in a high-end kitchen thanks to my Mum...

I'm afraid I wasn't intentionally meaning that to be angry, although I do see where you are coming from. However, I only typed up that "analysis" to make a point. Truth is, if you couldn't tell, I BS'd the whole thing in a matter of 10 minutes. I am not an analyzer, and I have no experience in a kitchen. I just typed up random crap as it popped in my head. My point wasn't to analyze ratatouille, it was to attempt to show people how boring some of those things can be to read and maybe tell some of the over-analyzers that we common folk really don't want to read them. Again, I proved my point, as where I cut off the quote is as far as I read into your post. I don't say that to be rude, I say that to, again, show a point. All I'm saying is not to stop, but to keep it among those that will actually read it, so your not wasting 10 minutes of your time typing something most of us (from what I've seen) are only not going to read, but genuinely be annoyed by. That's all.