Jan animations shut down by hasbro/C&D

[LordDiscord 289]

I know this is an unpopular viewpoint, but Hasbro has every LEGAL right to protect their holdings. They own everything MLP:FIM related, and it's their call if they choose to send a C-D order when they think something is infringing on THEIR property. The Button Mash videos, and Picture Perfect Pony were done so well, they can very easily be mistaken for official Hasbro approved content. So many people are saying "They should just let this content alone." If they do, Hasbro sets a dangerous legal precedent that could actually lead to any company openly producing unlicensed MLP:FIM merchandize. They'd just point to Button Mash and anything else and say "Hasbro permitted that, how dare they turn around now and say no to us?" Hasbro could actually lose their rights to MLP:FIM if they don't actively protect their copyrights.

 

It's a shame such a cool fan made production was stopped, but Hasbro is well within their rights. 

But that doesn't make much sense. If ''Hasbro'' has the legal right over everything that is MLP, then they also have the right to chose what can and can not be posted by fans. So if they let Jan continue to make ''Buttons Adventures'' and then some company started to make merchandise that Hasbro had a problem with, that company could not turn around and cry foul because Hasbro has the right to chose what is and isn't permitted. 

Maybe I am a fan of Hasbro, but to be honest so what? In this thread there's so much Hasbro hate going on, and all they are doing is protecting their image. And I said it before, and I'll say it again, if they were so uncaring, why would they throw parties for kids in care, or give them £100's of pounds worth of Christmas presents?

I never stated they were uncaring, you can be a very caring person and still do something that people consider wrong. I don't mind the fact that they are protecting their image, I mind however that they have to do it because of the stupid law that is set in place. Even if Hasbro has to do it doesn't mean that Hasbro and other similarly nice companies could not fight to have the law changed as apparently it can restrict even Hasbro from having a say on their own product. 

[Adachi 772]

 

Thank you. I understand that. This is why every site that has a pony being shown has been "politely asked" to take them down too right?

 

No. This didn't happen. They are targeting Jan Animations because they have some magical scale of nonsensery where Jan Animations got to "TOO BIG!" and it's suddenly a threat. So they send the criminal perpetrator fan a letter that basically says: "We're gonna sue you if you don't stop making us hallucinate that we will lose our IP because of you. And because there are some common sense black holes of laws that let us do it, you need to stop whatever it is that you are doing. By the way, we have a lot of money to maintain a legal battle. Do you have a lot of money? Thought so. Now go back to consume."

 

They are not going to lose their IP because some guys are doing cute fan animations on YouTube. I can agree that that dude selling figures of the characters could be trouble, because he was putting a product on the market, but this is ridiculous.

 

So people want to be nice and don't want trouble with gigantic multinational corporations, and they nicely comply. So now where does this stop? Who gets to decide who they can bully into submission and who they can't? I get that the problem is that there is a legal system that allows for this, but it's like having a gun. If it shoots and kills someone innocent, I'm going to blame the owner, not the gun and not the fact that guns exist.

 

I'll repeat this one more time. They not only got big, they used the same EXACT style, one of the same EXACT characters, and Button has the same EXACT design as one of their background ponies. It has nothing to do with getting too big, never has, never will. They borrowed too much from the MLP universe. If they used some design they made up and went about it with a different animation style or something, and didn't use actual characters from the show, then Hasbro wouldn't care.

 

Hasbro isn't gonna target anything like Turnabout Storm, because it's not full animation (only thing that's animation there is the mouth movement), or Daddy Discord (slideshow), Luna Game (8 bit game), or any of the tribute videos (random collection of clips, not an actual show) Button was FULLY ANIMATED with MLP characters being used. Plus, they had a Youtube partnership so the creator was making money off it too. What about that don't you get? =/

 

Edit: I would like to add, that the use of Sweetie Belle and that random background pony design was a violation of their IP, since they were created by Hasbro, they paid money for the rights to use them, etc. With how Copyright law works, you either protect your properties or you lose them. Don't ask me how it works, I don't study law, I only research enough to know what's important.

 

Edit 2: Hasbro themselves said they were impressed with the quality of the show and they let it run until they felt they were in danger of losing their copyright. Also, the fact that the creator works for Hasbro might have actually forced their hand faster, because I believe that corporations frown upon employees using their assets to create a similar product that they have. Even though he didn't work in the MLP department, he probably got help from his girlfriend who does work for them. An employee cannot compete with the company they work with, and I believe most corporations have a law stating that employees cannot make their own versions of a product.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Ryudo

[Skeleton Kin 385]

TAKE WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY OURS! WE ARE BRONIES UNITED!!!!

Gonna have to go with Pinkie Perry on this one, we do not own the 'My Little Pony: FIM' license.

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

It doesn't make a bit of difference if they make no money. Hasbro owns every single aspect of MLP:FIM. Say you wrote a book. You sell that book and it becomes very popular. Someone online writes a sequel to your book that totally changes the direction of what you have developed, and maybe even kills off a character or two. (Cupcakes, anyone?) They distribute it for free. It's written well enough where many people think YOU wrote it. Wouldn't you demand it be stopped?

 

So many bronies are of the opinion. "I like it, that means Hasbro MUST allow me to do whatever I want with it." The legal world does not work that way. Frankly, many are acting like spoiled babies with the "Whaa-whaa, Hasbro is mean!" attitude. People keep complaining that Hasbro is just being evil. That's just foolish. Hasbro invested literally MILLIONS of dollars in MLP:FIM. They have every right to control every aspect of THEIR PROPERTY. 

 

1)I have never meant someone that mistook fanwork for the real thing outside of maybe anon romhacks and really good PHYSICAL bootlegs. 

 

2)It's not not acting like spoiled babies to point out that copyright law is extremely outdated now that we're in the digital age and anyone can publish content. Consider many people have started doing fan projects and moved on to real careers from there(such as MandoPony doing music for the show and TheLivingTombstone being signed to a contract) we need to expand fair use to protect non-profit fanwork because doing so would encourage creativity by allowing people to safely play around with their favorite characters and works to hone their skills, as well as allow fans access to more content than the parent company could ever produce. 

 

3)Morally and ethically there's a huge difference between a labor of love created for free to entertain people and work being sold for money.

 

4)No one I've debated this with has ever been able to give me direct proof of fanworks hurting profits. I'd say the opposite is true because it's very discouraging to fans when you shit all over them after over three years being like "okay, we're cool with it" by turning around and stabbing them in the back via doing a 180 on that attitude.  

Edited March 23, 2014 by Shoboni

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

I'll repeat this one more time. They not only got big, they used the same EXACT style, one of the same EXACT characters, and Button has the same EXACT design as one of their background ponies. It has nothing to do with getting too big, never has, never will. They borrowed too much from the MLP universe. If they used some design they made up and went about it with a different animation style or something, and didn't use actual characters from the show, then Hasbro wouldn't care.

 

Hasbro isn't gonna target anything like Turnabout Storm, because it's not full animation (only thing that's animation there is the mouth movement), or Daddy Discord (slideshow), Luna Game (8 bit game), or any of the tribute videos (random collection of clips, not an actual show) Button was FULLY ANIMATED with MLP characters being used. Plus, they had a Youtube partnership so the creator was making money off it too. What about that don't you get? =/

 

Edit: I would like to add, that the use of Sweetie Belle and that random background pony design was a violation of their IP, since they were created by Hasbro, they paid money for the rights to use them, etc. With how Copyright law works, you either protect your properties or you lose them. Don't ask me how it works, I don't study law, I only research enough to know what's important.

 

Edit 2: Hasbro themselves said they were impressed with the quality of the show and they let it run until they felt they were in danger of losing their copyright. Also, the fact that the creator works for Hasbro might have actually forced their hand faster, because I believe that corporations frown upon employees using their assets to create a similar product that they have. Even though he didn't work in the MLP department, he probably got help from his girlfriend who does work for them. An employee cannot compete with the company they work with, and I believe most corporations have a law stating that employees cannot make their own versions of a product.

Dude, I'm not stupid. Please, don't treat me as if I was.

 

You want to believe that this was justified, fine. But I don't. I've stated my reasons and you seem to have ignored them. I'm done.

 

This discussion is a pain.

[BlinkZ 1,151]

What really needs to happen is the dam Copyright laws to be re written and updated.

[Shanks 10,816]

Another one? This is really disappointing but as I have said when this issue has come up before Hasbro while I am not nominating them for sainthood have been a far far more tolerant of fanworks than most other companies because they recognize that it is free advertizing. They however also have to content with outdated trademark laws which state that if they do not show they are sufficiently protecting their trademark that could legally lose it completely. Raging at Hasbo isn't going to solve anything, what will though it is not going to be accomplished overnight is to change these ridiculous and unfair laws.

[Adachi 772]

Dude, I'm not stupid. Please, don't treat me as if I was.

 

You want to believe that this was justified, fine. But I don't. I've stated my reasons and you seem to have ignored them. I'm done.

 

This discussion is a pain.

I have addressed your points. I get it. You want everyone to have the rights to copy MLP as they please, and it doesn't matter if Hasbro loses their rights to MLP as long as we get to do fan works. I know that's not what you're thinking, but that may as well be what you're saying. Because you're still making Hasbro out to be the bad guy when they don't like the way copyright works any more than we do.

 

What do you propose Hasbro does, if they want to keep their copyright AND allow people more freedom when making fan works. They could fight the law, but who knows? Maybe they are trying to fight it. But if they just try to disregard copyright law and allow fans to make fully animated videos with MLP characters with their voices and same locations and animation style, then someone is gonna make one copy of MLP that is too good, then when others start, and Hasbro tries to stop them, they'll say "you let that other group of people get away with it" and they will end up losing their copyright.

 

And I'm sorry if I sounded like I was calling you stupid, but you're still not getting it. I know the law is messed up and I know people can fight the law, but if Hasbro fights it illegally (by allowing copyright infringements), then the government will take away their right to make any more MLP shows or merchandise, then everyone loses out. Send a letter to Obama or something asking him to take another look at copyright law if you're so concerned.

 

And others have stated that Hasbro WANTED to let Button live, but they were unable to due to copyright law. They let him live on for as long as they could. And the creator already stated that he is perfectly ok with their decision and he respects it, and he thanked them for letting Button live on as long as they did.

 

tl;dr version I know copyright law sucks, Hasbro likely knows it too, and they tried to let the series live, but they lost copyrights to some of their characters already, they're not gonna take the risk of losing more.

 

Edit: Once again, I repeat for clarification, I do not think current copyright law is just. And it's just as much of a pain for corporations as it is for us. But Hasbro isn't to blame for US copyright laws, and they resisted it the best they could.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Ryudo

[null123456 759]

Well, this does suck. I really liked Don't Mine At Night and Button's Adventures.

But good news! They're taking the scripts for BA and putting them into something else. Well, that's what ShadyVox said on his Vocaroo message : http://vocaroo.com/i/s0IUXMulZbO1

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

 

 

I have addressed your points.

No you haven't. I said that it's not justified because it's ridiculous to claim that they would have lost their IP over some guy making fan animations, and I will add, even if they were using characters from the show.

 

I also said that yes, they have a "legal right" to persecute Jan Animations. Smoking pot is illegal in my country. Should I be arrested for doing that?! But I said that they didn't have to: I made an analogy with a creature that evolved in an environment that turned it into a irrational scared beast that keeps clawing at anything that draws it's attention. Sometimes it hits what it should and other times, it hits something completely innocuous. If you enter my house without permission, I have the right to hit you and claim self-defense even if you die (in my country, at least), but I shouldn't do that unless I'm sure that you meant harm to me.

 

Finally, I said that even if the problem is that some part of Hasbro is not talking with the others like it should, it's still their responsibility.

 

And I'm sorry if you did address any of this in the current post, but I honestly didn't read beyond what I quoted.

[Adachi 772]

No you haven't. I said that it's not justified because it's ridiculous to claim that they would have lost their IP over some guy making fan animations, and I will add, even if they were using characters from the show.

 

I also said that yes, they have a "legal right" to persecute Jan Animations. Smoking pot is illegal in my country. Should I be arrested for doing that?! But I said that they didn't have to: I made an analogy with a creature that evolved in an environment that turned it into a irrational scared beast that keeps clawing at anything that draws it's attention. Sometimes it hits what it should and other times, it hits something completely innocuous. If you enter my house without permission, I have the right to hit you and claim self-defense even if you die (in my country, at least), but I shouldn't do that unless I'm sure that you meant harm to me.

 

Finally, I said that even if the problem is that some part of Hasbro is not talking with the others like it should, it's still their responsibility.

 

And I'm sorry if you did address any of this in the current post, but I honestly didn't read beyond what I quoted.

All I'm saying is I agree with you when you say the law sucks. We don't know what Hasbro does behind the scenes, so anything we can say about what they do is pure speculation. I'm sorry if my posts looked like they were attacking you. We're both part of the same fandom, we shouldn't be arguing like this. But I just don't see how Hasbro can be wrong for doing what they did. Using their characters is all they needed to have justification for sending a C&D. If someone made a fully animated movie that happened to have Spongebob, in even so much as a quick cameo appearance, and they didn't get permission from Nickelodeon, they would likely sue them for thousands, or more. Hasbro knows the law is unjust and they don't like to alienate their fans, which is why they always use C&D as their first option, if they feel a fan work is a big enough threat to their IP. You can be sure that most fan works are safe, because they aren't made with anywhere near the same quality as their episodes, or they're just comics, fanfics, or random clips used for a YouTube Poop or tribute video. Hasbro is on the fans side, but they still have to protect their IP. They are a business first afterall.

[FluffyGoat13 375]

screw legality, Hasbro is dead to me. (however MLP is still good its just Hasbro)

 

You know when rarity said to those dragons "If you touch one scale on his adorable little head, I'LL TEAR YOU TO PIECES!!!"?

 

Yeah thats me right now.....where the hell did i put my katana?

Edited March 23, 2014 by BritishBrony 13

[Rarity Paige Belle 1,854]

screw legality, Hasbro is dead to me. (however MLP is still good its just Hasbro)

 

You know when rarity said to those dragons "If you touch one scale on his adorable little head, I'LL TEAR YOU TO PIECES!!!"?

 

Yeah thats me right now.....where the hell did i put my katana?

I think you're overreacting a slight touch! No body on here has properly explained why Hasbro should let it's products be ripped off.

[FluffyGoat13 375]

I think you're overreacting a slight touch! No body on here has properly explained why Hasbro should let it's products be ripped off.

By my standards that isn't overreacting, i didn't say "AWWW HELL NO" and i didn't make a direct death threat. people who know me well will also note i didn't threaten to kill them with a rusty spoon, and didn't declare a vendetta, jihad or just war.

 

Plus i still haven't found my misplaced katana.

[Espurr 449]

Gonna have to go with Pinkie Perry on this one, we do not own the 'My Little Pony: FIM' license.

I'm not being serious. I'm being funny.

[Mlpfan185 1,763]

Something was here. Something was here. Something was here. 

Edited October 10, 2018 by NONAME

[LordDiscord 289]

As unfortunate as it is I feel that we should work toward preserving Button Mash in honor of Jan instead of trying to battle a losing battle.

[FluffyGoat13 375]

As unfortunate as it is I feel that we should work toward preserving Button Mash in honor of Jan instead of trying to battle a losing battle

 

Losing? Nah i has weapons they has their LEGAL plushies.

 

All should learn, if you destroy or damage something i love, i cut off what dealt the damage. Chaos is the only way with me, revenge my weapon, goal and reward. So in Hasbros case, destruction of whoever decided "i know! lets destroy all of Jan Animations hard work!".

And don't say i need to see a psychiatrist, many say that all ready. Insanity always works, it is the hardest enemy 'cus you don't know what it will do next.

 

I would make a great Sith Lord, with all my anger.

 

Edited March 23, 2014 by BritishBrony 13

[Tabe 216]

Why are people still arguing about this? What more is there to say?

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

B

 

The pinnacle of our creations come from building off other's foundations. Even our greatest works start somewhere, Poe used English to express himself. Thank the gods English is not controlled by the NFL. Wouldn't want to see them get screwed out of Poe money.

 

That's pretty much the point I saw elsewhere. If not for having out-of copyright work to build on like Alice in Wonderland and old fairly tales Disney might not be where they are though, but the chances of that happening now are slim because copyright limitations protect the work for not only the creators entire life, but 70 years after their death because people with pull pushed that time window out longer and longer out of greed. That means people wanting to become content creators now via building on things can only use 100+ year old works to build upon and that stifles creativity. 

 

That's not even getting into the fact that copyright laws are regularly used to pull down things that ARE fair used like reviews. Remember when Tommy Wiseso abused the system to remove all the reviews of his terrible movie from the internet a while back?  There was also that guy that(I forget both his name and games) that made a terrible game then abused the system to get all the bad reviews of his game(including the ones he gave permission for) removed from Youtube. 

 

That's not even getting into the fact that the uprising of easily distributed fanwork has once again turned the system on it's head and put in the need for a re-evaluation the whole damn system.

 

Basically, my point is that I'm no contesting that they had the legal right to do so, because they did under the current broken system. I'm saying that maybe the whole system needs over-hauled because it just does not work fairly in the current day and age.  

Edited March 23, 2014 by Shoboni

[Rarity Paige Belle 1,854]

That's pretty much the point I saw elsewhere. If not for having out-of copyright work to build on like Alice in Wonderland and old fairly tales Disney might not be where they are though, but the chances of that happening now are slim because copyright limitations protect the work for not only the creators entire life, but 70 years after their death because people with pull of pushed that time window out longer and longer out of greed. That means people creator to becoming content creators now via building on things can only use 100+ old works to build upon and that stifles creativity. 

 

That's not even getting into the fact that copyright laws are regularly used to pull down things that ARE fair used like reviews. Remember when Tommy Wiseso abused the system to remove all the reviews of his terrible movie from the internet a while back?  There was also that guy that(I forget both his name and games) that made a terrible game then abused the system to get all bad reviews of his game(including the ones he gave permission for) removed from Youtube. 

 

That's not even getting into the fact that the uprising of easily distributed fanwork has once again turned the system on it's head and put in need of a re-evaluation the whole damn system.

 

Basically, my point is that I'm no contesting that they had the legal right to do so, because they did under the current broken system. I'm saying that maybe the whole system needs over-hauled because it just does not work fairly in the current day and age.

 

I'm beginning to think it's just me who thinks that using a character without permission is wrong!

[Mlpfan185 1,763]

Something was here. Something was here. Something was here. 

Edited October 10, 2018 by NONAME

[Rarity Paige Belle 1,854]

Yes, these unfortunate events are a product of a broken system.

 

 

Let's take the Wizard of Oz. It is public domain, you can use likeness of characters from that book in your work, because it is public domain. Well, until OZ came out. They used public domain figures in their copyrighted work, thus copywriting public domain characters. That is wrong, and a product of a broken copyright system. Through your post you have proven that you know little to nothing about the abuse and overall structure of copyright law in the U.S. let alone international asset control. You've made the statement that bronies were not a major source of income for Hasbro. I posted a Yale document which proves you wrong on several levels. You're comments are un-enlightened and one dimensional. While I am not up-in-arms about Hasbro protecting their IP. The fact is clear, that current copyright laws are a threat to art, and the progression of humanity.

The reason I'm not up to date on the complex copyright laws in the USA is.... because from the UK, but I enough common sense to know when somebody takes a character without permission and then starts ripping off the program!

[packmule1123 55]

What?!? NOOOOOOOOO!!!

 

I wish this copyright crap would stop.

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

The reason I'm not up to date on the complex copyright laws in the USA is.... because from the UK, but I enough common sense to know when somebody takes a character without permission and then starts ripping off the program!

 

But it's not that black and white from a ethical and moral perspective because these works are labors of love, not rip-offs and bootlegs made to turn a quick buck.