Do animals go to heaven?

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

I don't think animals go to Heaven, but I can't really give a particularly solid explanation of my reasoning. My knowledge of Biblical theology is fairly limited (even though it's what I believe in ).

 

But here are a couple things that come to mind, from my Christian perspective:

• The Bible says man was made in the image of God, but it doesn't say the same of animals
• While animals do experience emotions, I don't believe they're capable of reasoned thought on the level that humans are; their thoughts tend to be purely instinct-based
• In my understanding, man was made for relationship with God, while animals were made for man to have dominion over; i.e. man was made for God, but animals were just made for man
• Uh...... Yeah, that's pretty much all I can think of off the top o' my head

Edited May 30, 2014 by Henny Penny Benny

[Nulln 755]

 

I don't think animals go to Heaven, but I can't really give a particularly solid explanation of my reasoning. My knowledge of Biblical theology is fairly limited (even though it's what I believe in ).

 

But here are a couple things that come to mind, from my Christian perspective:

• The Bible says man was made in the image of God, but it doesn't say the same of animals
• While animals do experience emotions, I don't believe they're capable of reasoned thought on the level that humans are; their thoughts tend to be purely instinct-based
• In my understanding, man was made for relationship with God, while animals were made for man to have dominion over; i.e. man was made for God, but animals were just made for man
• Uh...... Yeah, that's pretty much all I can think of off the top o' my head

 

I don't really know anything about the bible, but weren't animals supposedly created before people?  So technically they'd be his first living, moving creations and should want their souls rescued as well?

[Adachi 772]

Animals have souls, and they also have their own other side (or as most people call it, Heaven). And what's funny is that animal souls are purer than human souls.

 

Edit: I think I read that animals eventually go to the giant mega otherside, along with any other souls from other othersides who are done reincarnating, but could be wrong.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Pegasus

[RNgineer 161]

I feel that our creator gave all his creation the ability to walk into the next life, if we all came from the same cell I'm pretty sure that means God gave us all the same life force

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

I don't really know anything about the bible, but weren't animals supposedly created before people?  So technically they'd be his first living, moving creations and should want their souls rescued as well?

That's just assuming that they have souls. The Bible's not terribly specific on that.

 

But anyway, the fact that they came first chronologically doesn't mean they're more valuable. It seems to make more sense that they're creation was just prepare the world for man, so that the whole world would be ready for man when God made him.

[Nulln 755]

That's just assuming that they have souls. The Bible's not terribly specific on that.

 

But anyway, the fact that they came first chronologically doesn't mean they're more valuable. It seems to make more sense that they're creation was just prepare the world for man, so that the whole world would be ready for man when God made him.

I don't think you can deny that a living being doesn't have a soul.  Humans are not the only things alive.

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

I don't think you can deny that a living being doesn't have a soul.  Humans are not the only things alive.

I certainly can deny it, with every bit as much authority as you can claim all living beings do have souls. It's not exactly cut and dried, and there's really no way to know for sure one way or another. There's not exactly a medical procedure to test for a soul. I'm just not convinced that animals have souls.

[Nulln 755]

I certainly can deny it, with every bit as much authority as you can claim all living beings do have souls. It's not exactly cut and dried, and there's really no way to know for sure one way or another. There's not exactly a medical procedure to test for a soul. I'm just not convinced that animals have souls.

That's pretty speciesist of you.

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

That's pretty speciesist of you.

Yeah. Yeah it is. And I don't really see that as a problem.

[Grumpy Enchantress 586]

Nope. Heaven doesn't exist.

[Nulln 755]

Yeah. Yeah it is. And I don't really see that as a problem.

I'm sure racists feel the same way.

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

I'm sure racists feel the same way.

 

Trying to shame me into accepting your opinions won't work.

[Theshadowmaster235 70]

I believe they do where as some Christians say animals don't have souls I know they do if they didn't they would kill anything and everything and feel no remorse if they had no soul they wouldn't show emotion just as with humans only an animal that was evil would go to hell. God would never send something to hell simply because it's not human he cares for all life on earth not just humanity.

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

I'm sure racists feel the same way.

Reading my last comment again, I realize it probably came off as really rude. I apologize for that. I also made an assumption of your intentions, for which I also apologize. Let's try this again.....

 

Yes, racists probably do feel the same way, but their beliefs are based on the faulty notion that people born in one place are inherently, intellectually inferior to those born in another place. We're all human, though, and no race is inherently superior or inferior in any meaningful, measurable way. With species, on the other hand, it seems evident that humans are superior in several ways, primarily that our brains are more complex than most other species. We are capable of reasoned thought in a way most species are not, as most animals act on instinct alone. Whether or not that makes us better is purely a matter of opinion.

[Nulln 755]

Reading my last comment again, I realize it probably came off as really rude. I apologize for that. I also made an assumption of your intentions, for which I also apologize. Let's try this again.....

 

Yes, racists probably do feel the same way, but their beliefs are based on the faulty notion that people born in one place are inherently, intellectually inferior to those born in another place. We're all human, though, and no race is inherently superior or inferior in any meaningful, measurable way. With species, on the other hand, it seems evident that humans are superior in several ways, primarily that our brains are more complex than most other species. We are capable of reasoned thought in a way most species are not, as most animals act on instinct alone. Whether or not that makes us better is purely a matter of opinion.

How do you know another race is the exact same as us?  How do you know what animals think?  If you can't get in their minds then how can you make the claim that we are superior?  More violent and take the entire earth for ourselves and destroy other species, yeah, but that hardly makes someone superior to another.

[Grumpy Enchantress 586]

I believe they do where as some Christians say animals don't have souls I know they do if they didn't they would kill anything and everything and feel no remorse if they had no soul they wouldn't show emotion just as with humans only an animal that was evil would go to hell. God would never send something to hell simply because it's not human he cares for all life on earth not just humanity.

Define soul. Everything you described that you think prove animals have souls can be explained scientifically by brain functions and the species developing those brain functions that are required for the species to survive from evolution. We've never found a "spiritual" part of you that continues when your brain ceases to function.

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

How do you know another race is the exact same as us?  How do you know what animals think?  If you can't get in their minds then how can you make the claim that we are superior?  More violent and take the entire earth for ourselves and destroy other species, yeah, but that hardly makes someone superior to another.

 

That's part of why it's an opinion. I can't know what anyone or anything else is thinking, or how they think.

 

I didn't say all races are exactly the same, just that none is inherently superior in any meaningful, measurable way.

 

And while I don't know what animals think because I'm not in their heads, it is possible to get some idea how their minds work by testing their mental abilities, as scientists have done. And those tests have pretty unanimously shown evidence that other species lack the ability to reason as well as we do. Is that conclusive? No. But it's evidence.

[Grumpy Enchantress 586]

And while I don't know what animals think because I'm not in their heads, it is possible to get some idea how their minds work by testing their mental abilities, as scientists have done. And those tests have pretty unanimously shown evidence that other species lack the ability to reason as well as we do. Is that conclusive? No. But it's evidence.

You can't treat "other species" as one giant group, though. From my understanding dolphins are pretty intelligent along with a few other species.

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

You can't treat "other species" as one giant group, though. From my understanding dolphins are pretty intelligent along with a few other species.

True, true. I was trying not to make any generalizations about all species, but I guess I didn't phrase it very well. I was actually thinking about dolphins, too.

 

Nonetheless, that doesn't change my views.

[Theshadowmaster235 70]

Define soul. Everything you described that you think prove animals have souls can be explained scientifically by brain functions and the species developing those brain functions that are required for the species to survive from evolution. We've never found a "spiritual" part of you that continues when your brain ceases to function.

You know I'm not even gonna try and explain it to you because you will always say that science can't prove it well I myself think that the whole "science can't prove it" line is load of bullshit there are a lot of things science can't prove but that doesn't mean they don't exist. And as for the whole evolution thing I have one thing to say: burn in hell Charles Darwin!!!

[Grumpy Enchantress 586]

You know I'm not even gonna try and explain it to you because you will always say that science can't prove it well I myself think that the whole "science can't prove it" line is load of bullshit there are a lot of things science can't prove but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I can't think of a single thing that we know to be true that isn't proven by science. Yes, there are things we have a hard time explaining how they came about with science, but as far as if something is there or not, everything I know to be true can be proven. No offense but, I don't believe things just because a book told me it was true. I was raised believing these things until I realized there was no reason for my belief and that yes, scientific evidence is 100% essential for me to recognize it as a fact and not just wishful thinking.

 

And as for the whole evolution thing I have one thing to say: burn in hell Charles Darwin!!!

You want him to be tortured forever because he saw scientific evidence for something you don't personally agree with? That's pretty ridiculous, good thing there's no evidence or rational basis for belief in Hell either.

 

Not trying to be too insulting to your beliefs, but you literally said someone should be tortured in never ending fire for the crime of disagreeing with you based on actual research and scientific understanding. So, yeah.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Grumpy Enchantress

[Theshadowmaster235 70]

I can't think of a single thing that we know to be true that isn't proven by science. Yes, there are things we have a hard time explaining how they came about with science, but as far as if something is there or not, everything I know to be true can be proven. I don't believe things just because a book told me it was true.Well, you're clearly a rational non-hate-filled person looking to have an actual debate that amounts to something more than "you should be tortured forever if you don't agree with me." There's no evidence for Hell either, though and we do have evidence for evolution, sorry.

I actually am very hate filled and as for your evidence that evolution is real well I've been forced to learn about evolution and I refuse to believe that humans came from a damn ape there is not enough proof in the world that can make me believe in evolution and I don't think that everyone who disagrees with me should be tortured if I thought that I would think almost half of the people on earth should be tortured. I can get along with most atheists I even have a friend who was one( I say was because he is now Christian and even when he was atheist he still despised the very thought of evolution ) but the ones who try to push evolution and other things they believe in down my throat I just can't stand and before you even say it I wasn't trying to force my beliefs down your throat I was only stating my opinions.

[Grumpy Enchantress 586]

I actually am very hate filled

Okay, well I'm not going to try to start anything, but it might interest you to look into the Biblical idea of The Fruits of the Spirit. Seriously, this isn't an insult, but you admitted to being hate filled yourself and I just think it's worth pointing out that that contradicts the idea of what following Jesus is supposed to do to you spiritually. I'm not going to sit here and prech to you, it's just a Christian idea I think you'd want to look at if you are a Christian yourself. Just saying, no insults being thrown at you.

 

I'm not trying to say you're not a real Christian or anything, it's just more of a failed promise I see as far as the belief system goes.

 

and as for your evidence that evolution is real well I've been forced to learn about evolution and I refuse to believe that humans came from a damn ape there is not enough proof in the world that can make me believe in evolution

There is evidence for it and we can see evolution accuring in nature. I'd assume you just have a faulty view of it if you literally refuse to believe it like that. Also, The Bible says we come from dirt, is apes somehow less plausible?

 

I don't think that everyone who disagrees with me should be tortured if I thought that I would think almost half of the people on earth should be tortured.

Well, I would avoid saying "go to Hell" altoghether if you believe in it and don't mean that then. Especially in religious debates and about someone who's dead.

 

I can get along with most atheists I even have a friend who was one( I say was because he is now Christian and even when he was atheist he still despised the very thought of evolution ) but the ones who try to push evolution and other things they believe in down my throat I just can't stand

You mean the people who have determined that there's enough factual evidence for it that it should be taught to people? Why? You wouldn't say they're shoving gravity down you throat.

 

I again believe you don't actually understand evolution if you hate it that much. I know lots of Christians who accept evolution and have never even heard of an atheist denying evolution until now. Please just try to study it unbiasedly and see what you think, that's all I'd ask.

 

and before you even say it I wasn't trying to force my beliefs down your throat I was only stating my opinions.

I wouldn't say that, I think both sides expressing themselves is important, but I think I have just as much right to counter your opinions with mine, that's kind of necessary for any of us to get closer to finding the truth, isn't it?

 

 

Edit: Also, I guess a general religious discussion is a little off topic, isn't it? Sorry about that, we can take this to another thread if you want.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Grumpy Enchantress

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

I actually am very hate filled and as for your evidence that evolution is real well I've been forced to learn about evolution and I refuse to believe that humans came from a damn ape there is not enough proof in the world that can make me believe in evolution and I don't think that everyone who disagrees with me should be tortured if I thought that I would think almost half of the people on earth should be tortured. I can get along with most atheists I even have a friend who was one( I say was because he is now Christian and even when he was atheist he still despised the very thought of evolution ) but the ones who try to push evolution and other things they believe in down my throat I just can't stand and before you even say it I wasn't trying to force my beliefs down your throat I was only stating my opinions.

 

 

Okay, well I'm not going to try to start anything, but it might interest you to look into the Biblical idea of The Fruits of the Spirit. Seriously, this isn't an insult, but you admitted to being hate filled yourself and I just think it's worth pointing out that that contradicts the idea of what following Jesus is supposed to do to you spiritually. I'm not going to sit here and prech to you, it's just a Christian idea I think you'd want to look at if you are a Christian yourself. Just saying, no insults being thrown at you.

 

I'm not trying to say you're not a real Christian or anything, it's just more of a failed promise I see as far as the belief system goes.

 

There is evidence for it and we can see evolution accuring in nature. I'd assume you just have a faulty view of it if you literally refuse to believe it like that. Also, The Bible says we come from dirt, is apes somehow less plausible?

 

Well, I would avoid saying "go to Hell" altoghether if you believe in it and don't mean that then. Especially in religious debates and about someone who's dead.

 

You mean the people who have determined that there's enough factual evidence for it that it should be taught to people? Why? You wouldn't say they're shoving gravity down you throat.

 

I again believe you don't actually understand evolution if you hate it that much. I know lots of Christians who accept evolution and have never even heard of an atheist denying evolution until now. Please just try to study it unbiasedly and see what you think, that's all I'd ask.

 

I wouldn't say that, I think both sides expressing themselves is important, but I think I have just as much right to counter your opinions with mine, that's kind of necessary for any of us to get closer to finding the truth, isn't it?

 

Don't mean to get on y'all's cases or anything, but I think this is getting a bit off topic for this thread.

[Grumpy Enchantress 586]

Don't mean to get on y'all's cases or anything, but I think this is getting a bit off topic for this thread.

Yeah, sorry about that. If a mod wants to move those posts, I'd appreciate that and I can take it to another thread if he wants to continue the discussion.