A critical and delicate matter

[King 5,625]

This was always going to be a policy that most people were going to be 50/50 on and I assure you that plenty of discussion was had before we decided this was the best course of action. When people come to this site, they come here for primarily one of two reasons. One, they're here for the Pony, or two, they're here for the Brony.

Ponies or fandom are what most people are here for, they are not here primarily to seek professional assistance for depression, and if they are they've come to the wrong place. Plenty of hotlines and other websites exist for professional help if they so choose to seek it out.

Keep in mind I am not saying we should ban anything in regards to seeking help from friends or people willing to listen, but what I am saying is that not everyone wants to wake up, jump on the forum and see a number of depressing status updates and blogs about suicide. They come here to relax,to have fun and to talk with people, to socialise.

For people wanting some assistance, we have the life advice section if they want to find help somewhat publicly. If they want help privately, they can PM others. There are still plenty of ways to seek help here, we just don't want day after day of depressing status updates.

I really hope people understand this and accept these reasons as to why the policy is being enacted.

[Passion 3,484]

I, for once, wholeheartedly agree with the decision.

 

If I was to explain all the reasons behind my choice, it would take thousands of words. I've been through a lot, I've seen a lot, I had enough time to come up with conclusions and set my views in-stone.

 

Referring to the 2nd post above: Yes, that's true, people might be desperate and they may want to earn a ray of hope in their lives. But I ask: Why not give them someone who'll actually want, and will try, to help them a lot more than the others? I'm talking about the Life Advice thread, of course.

 

People seem to forget that this thread is not only for those who search for help, but also for those who are actually willing to provide it. For instance, I really rarely visit the Life Advice section. I have enough of my own issues in life to take care of and adding to them this way is not really something I want. But there are a lot of people who actively search for ways of helping others, and have FAR MORE experience in counseling than I do. (On a side note, I was thinking about people suffering for depression, who are unable to find motivation to do anything. How many of you believe that reading through another negative status update will help in improving their condition? I know I don't) Of course, that doesn't mean I'm completely washed out of emotions. If someone approached me directly, I'd help if I was able to. But even today, barely 2 hours ago, I've turned down a request of conversation from a friend who needed help. Why? Because my mind has been so overburdened yesterday, both with negativity and typical daily chores, that I just need time to recover and rest. What leads me to what Dawn just wrote:

 

what I am saying is that not everyone wants to wake up, jump on the forum and see a number of depressing status updates and blogs about suicide. They come here to relax, to have fun and to talk with people, to socialize.

 

I am one of these people.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Khajiit

[Batbrony 16,054]

Ya know, I hadn't really thought about this issue much, but in hindsight, given the drastic number of members we've seen posting quite publicly posts of this nature lately, this change really is a long time coming and for the better.  When a significantly high enough number of members continually post status updates, or mention in posts in other areas of the forum, deeply personal issues that most people here aren't qualified or capable of resolving, it starts compromising the very nature of these forums, as you pointed out @Artemis.  And the most ridiculous thing about it as well is that, as many have pointed out, we do already have a section of the forums specifically designated for this kind of thing in the Life Advice section, which already puts this forum ahead of 99% of others as far as addressing these kinds of personal issues goes for members.

 

But while we may be a tight-knit community, we're still only an online community, and there is, quite realistically, only so much most of us can do.  In Life Advice, one can at least find people who purposefully are putting themselves out there to try and offer words of wisdom to others who may be struggling, but in the rest of the forums as a whole, most people aren't coming here with their minds in a place to even address those kinds of questions.  They're here for pony and all things pony, and if they see someone post in the status updates "Think I'm going to end it all tonight", a lot of these members, some of them still young teenagers just adjusting to young adulthood themselves, are going to be confused, scared, and lament the fact that there really is nothing they can do, not even offer words of wisdom if they don't know said individual.  It may sound harsh, but it's sadly true; posting a public status update here about something of a suicidal nature is not going to help you or anybody else.  This isn't censorship on the staff's part, it's simply a forceful redirection to the one spot on the forums where people can try to help others with personal issues of such a serious nature, and a reminder that even in Life Advice, there is only so much that people here can do.  There is no online substitute that trumps real people giving someone advice, love, and support in real life.

[boiteporte 591]

Well, on the other forum I go on, we take those "suicide" matters very seriously. if someone threatens to commit suicide on a thread, authorities are alerted using the  poster's IP address.

 

It turns out that if it's a stupid joke, it's also an expensive one. The police does not like to waste its time.

Edited June 24, 2014 by boiteporte

[Guest90210 3,568]

Well here's my opinion. Doubt it will mean anything as this is assumingly set-in-stone already.

 

 

Policing people's status updates/blogs is a bad idea. First of all, one might misinterpret a status/blog as being "suicidal" when it isn't, thus wasting everyone's time on something that wasn't against this new rule.

 

Why not unfriend someone if you're being so "brought down" by their "negative" status updates? Just don't read them. The overwhelmingly large majority of the forum doesn't post that kind of stuff on a daily, even weekly basis anyways. If you want to stay their friend, maybe it would be a good idea to try and help, or at least not inhibit potential help by burying their posts into deletion.

 

Welcome to life. It's hard. It sucks. Everyone is going to have some terrible days every now and then (possibly more often for some), and thus their mood may reflect their current situation. Locking updates and potentially banning members for feeling down? Not the best way to deal with things in my opinion. Maybe if they were literally spamming (i,e, a status every minute or so flooding the servers), but I've yet to see something like that happen on this site.

 

 

You know why I choose this place over any other forum? Because here, I don't feel like I'm being policed when I post something. I like this place because it's open to everyone, regardless of their walk of life. I have seen several suicides apparently prevented on here, thanks to other user's kindness and support. Sure, there's the life advice section, but I don't see why that has to be the absolute only place to release any unhappy feelings.

 

 

If I was contemplating suicide, there is not a chance in hell that I would see a professional about it or call a suicide hotline. 

 

This is unfortunetly the case. Most people feel extremely uncomfortable talking about their problems to someone on a hotline. Many who are suicidal are afraid to seek help from professionals and instead seek help from those they call friend (which is understandable).

Edited June 24, 2014 by Rivendare

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

 Locking updates and potentially banning members for feeling down?

 

We aren't looking to get anyone in trouble, and we certainly aren't going to dole out warnings for this. We'd only give someone a warning for this if that became absolutely necessary.

Saw this little thingy mabobber you said, Rivendare, and I just thought I should point out that no one's going to get in trouble for this unless it becomes absolutely necessary -  one of the admins of the site stated that himself, as you can see above.

 

Soooo...yeahh. Just thought I'd point that out to avoid confusion I wouldn't back this idea if people were going to get slapped with WPs every time they said something depressing, and that's clearly far from the case.

 

[Fluttershyfan94 5,742]

This is something I didn't expect to see happen, but can understand. Not sure if it's right though, it's just I understand since it's become too much lately and then something like this happens.

[Shift 4,272]

As long as they can post in Life Advice about it, i'm fine, because I am honestly incapable of helping these people. But I do think that they should be able to post an update about it; I wouldn't want mods to be policing the updates, like what Rivendare has said.

 

So i'm in the middle about this.

Edited June 24, 2014 by A Shift Makusu2

[Steve 290]

im all for this

 

ive actually noticed the increase in depression and suicide things in statuses and im pretty sick of it

 

mostly because i cant tell if theyre being serious, or just looking for attention

[Tabe 216]

I have tried to help many people who had problems in their life. My general answer would be "You are not alone"

 

That's all I can say. Everyone have problems, even the smallest of problems can bring you down to depression, but its a part of being a human being.

 

As we all know, the internet is completely infested with trolls, hackers and generally unpleasant people, so Its not a place I would ask for advice about my life.

[Guest90210 3,568]

ive actually noticed the increase in depression and suicide things in statuses and im pretty sick of it

 

It all boils down to one simple question.

 

What's a more important issue to focus on - You being sick of suicidal/depressing posts, or people being sick of life itself? Hint: One involves someone potentially dying, the other doesn't.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Rivendare

[Steve 290]

 

It all boils down to one simple question.

 

What's a more important issue to focus on - You being sick of suicidal/depressing posts, or people being sick of life itself?

 

it must be me being sick of depressing posts since this topic is about making less of those

[Guest90210 3,568]

it must be me being sick of depressing posts since this topic is about making less of those

 

Do you not see the flaw in this? You not wanting to see people being miserable is more important and crucial than actually being the one in misery? Who's needs are in more urgent need of care in this situation?

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

This isn't a solution. Rather than doing this why don't you create a thread where people are actually learning and are given advice on how to treat that matter? I've had people friends of mine dealing with PTSD and i couldn't know how to help them. Since they won't go to a professional and i am not a professional right now the best choice is to offer an advice a professional would give... and the only way to do that is somehow being educated about it. Rather than shutting down threads like this a series of links and research about how we can help people dealing with such disorders in nessecary. So no... don't shut down such blogs... but find a way to regulate them...

[Steve 290]

Do you not see the flaw in this? You not wanting to see people being miserable is more important and crucial than actually being the one in misery? Who's needs are in more urgent need of care in this situation?

obviously those who are depressed are more in need

 

the point is i agree with the new changes and keeping this kind of stuff in the life advice section. i just dont really like seeing drepressed statuses

 

so where are you are you going with this?

[SCS 7,537]

I would have less of a problem with the "no suicide" blogs rule though if they weren't simply deleted if they were discovered but maybe moved to the "life advice" section or if that is not possible than to provide the person with the removed blog a copy of what they said and to encourage them to post in the Life Advice section.

 

It's not possible to actually move a blog post over to a forum topic using the software we have, unless there's a hook for it. I can look around for that, but in the meantime the staff certainly can give people a copy of their blog post if they need to move it over to Life Advice. I'll encourage staff to do this, as this would be a very good thing to do. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

 

 

Policing people's status updates/blogs is a bad idea. First of all, one might misinterpret a status/blog as being "suicidal" when it isn't, thus wasting everyone's time on something that wasn't against this new rule.

 

We aren't going to be policing anything. Moderators and administrators already watch status updates all the time: that's not new. We aren't policing or looking for ways to get people in trouble. All we do is look out for trouble, and we certainly aren't going to act in ways that would cause trouble where there isn't any.

 

 

 

Why not unfriend someone if you're being so "brought down" by their "negative" status updates? Just don't read them. The overwhelmingly large majority of the forum doesn't post that kind of stuff on a daily, even weekly basis anyways. If you want to stay their friend, maybe it would be a good idea to try and help, or at least not inhibit potential help by burying their posts into deletion.

 

That wouldn't necessarily help, because status updates are posted in a block on the main page. You see status updates there regardless of whether or not someone is on your friend list. If someone wants help from their friends, a status update isn't a great way to go about it. There's no guarantee your friends are online or that they will see your status update right away, while at the same time it could be dragging down a bunch of people who don't know the person at all. If you want support from friends you should contact them privately, which would likely result in a much more personal and meaningful discussion anyway.

 

Alternatively, you could post about it in Life Advice for reasons many others have stated: people don't just go there to receive help, there are many people who go there to give help, too. We aren't limiting anyone's ability to get help or support from friends, we're just asking people to direct it ito the appropriate channels.

 

 

 

Welcome to life. It's hard. It sucks. Everyone is going to have some terrible days every now and then (possibly more often for some), and thus their mood may reflect their current situation. Locking updates and potentially banning members for feeling down? Not the best way to deal with things in my opinion. Maybe if they were literally spamming (i,e, a status every minute or so flooding the servers), but I've yet to see something like that happen on this site.

 

Posting a status update venting about life (as long as it's not a suicide threat) from time to time is perfectly fine. The staff is only going to intervene if someone starts doing it constantly. Which, additionally, ties in to your concerns about policing status updates. We aren't going to be sitting here with a cannon to knock down any and every status update we see that's not happy, because that would be unreasonable. We are just going to keep an eye out for members who post a large amount of substantially sad/depressing status updates over a long period of time and ask them to communicate with others regarding their concerns in appropriate channels as needed.

 

 

 

What's a more important issue to focus on - You being sick of suicidal/depressing posts, or people being sick of life itself? Hint: One involves someone potentially dying, the other doesn't.

 

The staff cannot give preference to suicidal individuals over non-suicidal individuals, and neither can we give preference to non-suicidal individuals over suicidal individuals. While we all do our best to ensure personal freedom of expression to the greatest extent reasonable, a line must be drawn in order to protect other people in the community and the community at large. This is why we have rules, and the same fundamental principle applies here.

 

On a personal level, of course someone feeling suicidal is more important than someone not wanting to read suicidal status updates. On a community management level, both feelings have to be taken into equal consideration. Therefore, the staff designed this compromise to be as fair as possible, even though it will not make everyone as happy as possible. People who want to seek help, advice and support can do so in private conversations with friends or in Life Advice, where they will likely receive much more meaningful and substantial help than if they just posted a status update. At the same time, the people who just want to come here to have fun can do so without having to encounter substantially depressing material on the forum's home page on a regular basis.

 

 

 

This isn't a solution. Rather than doing this why don't you create a thread where people are actually learning and are given advice on how to treat that matter? I've had people friends of mine dealing with PTSD and i couldn't know how to help them. Since they won't go to a professional and i am not a professional right now the best choice is to offer an advice a professional would give... and the only way to do that is somehow being educated about it. Rather than shutting down threads like this a series of links and research about how we can help people dealing with such disorders in nessecary. So no... don't shut down such blogs... but find a way to regulate them...

No one here is qualified to give or teach others how to give professional help unless they have been professionally trained and licensed accordingly in real life. The staff who are responsible for dealing with such blog posts are certainly not qualified to teach anyone how to give professional psychological help. 

 

Additionally, such blogs will not just be shut down, the person who made them will be directed to Life Advice. Additionally, whichever staff member hides their blog post from public view or deletes it can PM the person who made the blog its content, BBCode and all, to make it far easier to transfer over to a Life Advice topic.

[Sugar Pea 2,682]

I feel sorry for these people...I for one think that they should be encouraged to post in the Life Advice section of MLP Forums. I can't agree more than enough.

I highly believe people should have the right to be open to their problems, but they should do it somewhere where they are sure to get immediate help from fellow members, rather than making status updates about it that can bum people out, especially the new comers on the Forums. Encouraging this does not make me evil for wanting people to get help, or express how they feel about their troubles.

Life advice is there for a reason. Don't be afraid to post there at all, people.
 

Edited June 24, 2014 by Peachie Buttbutton

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

 

 

No one here is qualified to give or teach others how to give professional help unless they have been professionally trained and licensed accordingly in real life. The staff who are responsible for dealing with such blog posts are certainly not qualified to teach anyone how to give professional psychological help.    Additionally, such blogs will not just be shut down, the person who made them will be directed to Life Advice. Additionally, whichever staff member hides their blog post from public view or deletes it can PM the person who made the blog its content, BBCode and all, to make it far easier to transfer over to a Life Advice topic.

Regardless Professional support will not always be 100% in your disposal... thus i believe at least ONE attempt should be made to educate people in those issues. 

[SCS 7,537]

Regardless Professional support will not always be 100% in your disposal... thus i believe at least ONE attempt should be made to educate people in those issues.

 

The staff here aren't qualified to educate people regarding these matters. In complete honesty, if we tried to do that it would have a high potential to do tremendous harm to the individuals going through trouble, and it could possibly land MLP Forums in a lot of legal trouble as well.

 

The best we can do is advise people to seek professional help in real life or through various online/phone resources.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

 

 

The staff here aren't qualified to educate people regarding these matters. In complete honesty, if we tried to do that it would have a high potential to do tremendous harm to the individuals going through trouble, and it could possibly land MLP Forums in a lot of legal trouble as well.   The best we can do is advise people to seek professional help in real life or through various online/phone resources.

Well how else can people contribute to this? If as you say people in the Life-Advice section aren't qualified then what can we really do? 

[SCS 7,537]

Well how else can people contribute to this? If as you say people in the Life-Advice section aren't qualified then what can we really do?

 

We can lend help and support as friends, but not on a professional level. Everyone is qualified to be a friend, but there is a critical difference between being able to offer someone friendship and support and being able to help someone on a professional psychological level.

[KRAKELINGCATcarnage 57]

For the people asking why some therapist cant help certain people.

 

Evryone is diffrent, and not evry therapist can cure evry person on the world from a depression or trauma etc.

 

People say therapist do wonders, and they indeed do, but they cant fix evrything. Therapist tried to help me with evrything they could, but they couldnt handle my strong emotions.

 

So guys please keep in mind when someone has problems with their life, they have a reason for it, and therapist can help most people, but they cant fix evry problem in a person's life.

[Guest90210 3,568]

 -words-

 

Obviously, our opinions clash and no resolve will be made as I am a single person lobbying against the crowd. In the end, I don't see the benefits of restricting people's posting abilities and telling them what they can and cannot say (within logical boundries of course). I've never been bothered by seeing a depressed status update or blog. I either move along or try my best to help that person. From what I've seen, "depressed and suicidal" stuff is by far the minority anyways. Scroll through some recent blogs or status updates, you'll find 95%+ positivity, or at least not something personally depressing.

 

Also, the majority of people on here are teenagers. Teenagers are ticking time bombs of emotion, often angsty, going through rapid changes, always shifting in mood...I believe that it would be wise to be a little lax when it comes to judging a blog or status deemed to have "broken" this rule.

 

On another note, I could see this getting out of hand. Bans resulting from opinions and assumptions. I can already make guesses at some of the users who will be banned within the next month due to this. Oh well. I would really like to be proven wrong, so we'll see how this new rule is enforced

Edited June 24, 2014 by Rivendare

[Sugar Pea 2,682]

 

Obviously, our opinions clash and no resolve will be made as I am a single person lobbying against the crowd. In the end, I don't see the benefits of restricting people's posting abilities and telling them what they can and cannot say (within logical boundries of course). I've never been bothered by seeing a depressed status update or blog. I either move along or try my best to help that person. From what I've seen, "depressed and suicidal" stuff is by far the minority anyways. Scroll through some recent blogs or status updates, you'll find 95%+ positivity, or at least not something personally depressing.

 

Also, the majority of people on here are teenagers. Teenagers are ticking time bombs of emotion, often angsty, going through rapid changes, always shifting in mood...I believe that it would be wise to be a little lax when it comes to judging a blog or status deemed to have "broken" this rule.

 

On another note, I could see this getting out of hand. Bans resulting from opinions and assumptions. I can already make guesses at some of the users who will be banned within the next month due to this. Oh well. I would really like to be proven wrong, so we'll see how this new rule is enforced

 

From what i've read, I doubt they are going to get anyone in trouble for expressing problems that they may have. The most they can do is suggest life advice, and/or move your blog posts to life advice if it deems you may need some. Life advice isn't just for suicidal people, but those with major problems with their lives as well. 

 

The staff isn't that irrational as to ban/give warning points to somebody for wanting to express what is wrong with them. If they were doing anything really bad, like insulting/hurting the feelings of others/breaking rules outside the Life Advice section, than I can possibly see that happening. All I have to say is at least have some trust into this method that they have developed...it's not to punish those with problems at all! It's to put them somewhere where they can get some really good help from not just the members, but the staff as well. This section has no meaning to it if nobody uses it for the sake of getting help. 

Edited June 24, 2014 by Peachie Buttbutton

[SCS 7,537]

I can already make guesses at some of the users who will be banned within the next month due to this.

 

The staff and I aren't going to be banning anyone for this if we can at all help it. We even avoid use of warnings when we can. We only use the warning system for serious or repeat offenses, we always try PMs first when we can.

 

That same practice will be employed here, although far more leeway will be given than we already give for other minor rule-breaking due to the sensitive nature of this issue.

 

For all intents and purposes, all we'll be doing is directing people to Life Advice if they post constant depressing status updates or blog posts. We'd try multiple PM reminders for that sort of thing and only turn to the warning system if that became absolutely necessary.

 

In short, we do not want to have to warn or ban anyone for this at all. We will give more leeway for this rule than we do for others, but as with any rule if people just completely ignore us there comes a day when we have no other choice.