Is it really about "disabilities" with Derpy?

[Thespian 78]

I've gone back and watched a comparison a few times, and it really seems like the only difference in Rainbow Dash's part is that "Derpy" has been cut off the end of her sentence.

 

Also, after rewatching that a few times, the original Derpy voice is more cringe-worthy than I remembered.

Rainbow sounds more angry the first time in my opinion.

 

 

Arguments can be made for both sides. Honestly the issue should be dropped entirely at this point since nothing can be done about it and the damage has already been done. I understand both sides. People didn't want to offend, Amy Keating Rogers has a son that is mentally disabled and thus knew where people were coming from, and more. Others could say that it was a step forward for the disabled community or that is just isn't offensive. The most we can wish for is that Derpy can come back as Ditsy Doo and just resume her normal life and not be intentionally hid away.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Thespian

[EquestriaGuy 1,074]

^ I think that's maybe the 2nd or 3rd time ever I've actually sat through listening to the new audio. The whole situation just disgusts me to no end. 

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

@@ThespianOkay, that comparison is a little more in depth than what I was watching ,and you're right there is a change in RD's tone. 

[Fractured 2,684]

We've gone over it quite a bit. It was a bunch of things coming together, but the main thing is the name on top of everything else.

 

Okay here is the thing, I personally don't find her offensive. But I can understand why others would be.

 

That is what seems to be missed during these conversations, that because you aren't offended by something doesn't mean others are not entitled to feel differently.

I have no issues with people feeling offended... as long as it's founded. People being mad at a stereotype that has no basis literally doesn't make sense to me. It's like me being offended at a show that insinuates that Native American's like french toast. Could it be interpreted as offensive? Yes. Is it? I suppose you have a right to be, and I won't deny you that, but it's really just more confusing to me.

Regardless, I don't really blame anybody. It's hard to when it didn't seem intentional; it was really just a series of unfortunate events that somehow got out of hand.

[Singe 2,111]

It's just cartoons tend to have certain establishments on how characters look, sound, and etc.

 

The Hunchback of Notre Dame for example where Quasimodo gets second prize and has to pass on the girl to Captain Phoebus.

[Ragland Tiger 3,446]

The average parent would not research the origin of the character, nor should they be required to. Parents that engaged HUB and Hasbro upset at the portrayal of the character did have cause to do so. Was it just her voice? No, though that second line of dialog was a bit over the top. I would also like to point out that Tabby gave Derpy a sex change. That mistake and poor communication may have changed the course of the character's portrayal going forward. It also didn't help that one of the Mane Six didn't seem very found of Derpy's presence which was also a contributing factor to people taking the opinion that the scene and character came across as offensive. The second (corrected) voice given to Derpy may have mitigated the original reaction if Tabby was asked to go that direction first, but other aspects like downplaying Rainbow Dash's annoyance would have helped too. It wasn't just about having a character with mental disabilities that caused the issue, it was how said character was presented.

 

Bill Cosby sums it up better than me. Start at 2:12

 

http://youtu.be/QrRUXsDumrM?t=2m12s

 

 

Basically Derpy was delicious steak ... but they served her on a damn trashcan lid.

 

 

Really? Because I am under the impression that you should at least try to understand something before you jump to conclusions and condemn it but apparently those parents disagree. What kind of lesson are they teaching their kids with that? You could argue that the presentation could have been better and it could have but the fact that these parents ignorantly claimed to speak for the disabled while ignoring the millions of them that liked Derpy so for that reason and that they didn't even bother to make any suggestions other than "kill her with fire" they can all go fuck themselves. Why are their voices heard while mine is ignored? I am not mentally challenged but I have been called stupid and retarded for being on the Autism spectrum and thus being a bit different from others. I don't like being ignored and I don't like having people automatically assume that I would find something offensive just because they do.

 

 

I have said it a million times and will say it again, there is no confirmation one way or another that Derpy has any disability except for walled eyes and a clumsy, slightly child like nature which I don't think counts yet people still made that assumption. But a lot of people who are disabled or just seen as different for other reasons like and respond to her and she could make a great teaching tool for teaching that it is okay to be different. How would you feel if something was so personal to you and everyone ignored you while claiming to speak for you? It would piss you off wouldn't it? It sure pisses me off.

 

 

Nope, I never engaged in a letter writing campaign and was not a fan of MLP at the time this was aired. My children were at the far end of the target audience when that episode aired so they also saw what I saw. My daughter, who's BP is Derpy prefers the edited scene. I understand the parents' point of view on this, and I hold DHX more accountable for the fiasco that any other group as they are stewards of the show.

 

I'm not going to comment on anything else you said.

 

 

 

"If you want the truth to stand clear before you, never be for or against.  The struggle between "for" and "against" is the mind's worst disease."

--Sent-ts'an

 

I'd say something here, but the thought of taking sides in this thread makes me uncomfortable at best.

[ManaMinori 4,146]

Did they? She's a character who comes across as a bad "retard" impersonation, named "Derpy", who is completely incompetent. It's not a particularly nice portrayal at all, at least in the original version of The Last Roundup. They didn't even remove the character, they just toned it down a bit to make iTunes happy.

 

And so now it's just "Raggghhhh, soccer-moms!" all the damn time.

 

Sorry to butt in, but let me just ask this, if I can. While, personally, I didn't see Derpy nearly as offensive 9or offensive at all, really), I think she unfairly got pushed into the classification as a 'retard'. She's capable, coherent, and wants to help, as was seen in the show- so she believes she has the ability to. We all know that Rainbow Dash isn't one to mince words and does have somewhat of a short temper, so it was more the interaction between her and Derpy that stirred the pot, if anything

 

But- and getting to my question to you (and anyone else who wants to take a whack at answering) If derpy is seen as completely "incompetent", then should Hasbro go the route, now that they're giving her a bit more screen time in s4 and the movie, that she should come in, as Vinyl did in Rainbow Rocks, and save the day, to really cement that fact that she IS competent and capable, and isn't always a klutz, and put in a more positive light by the 'soccer moms', who found her to be offensive in the first place?

[Jeric 46,871]

I'd say something here, but the thought of taking sides in this thread makes me uncomfortable at best.

 

Don't let that stop you. I'm not on a side here, I see both viewpoints in this issue pretty clearly. My own personal view on Derpygate is pretty simple, and hasn't been stated (note the abundance of 3rd person pronouns along with non absolutes like 'may' and 'bit')?  My personal stance is that I prefer the edited scene like one prefers vanilla over chocolate. The original scene didn't offend me, but it could offend (and did) others. The edited scene may actually be close to how Derpy would have sounded if not for that silly mistake. The irony of that last sentence does not escape me. A mistake created her, and one almost killed her.

 

Also, I have a habit of posting as a contrarian to both further the discussion, offer an alternate take using others points of view, and occasionally a perspective on some topics that is relatively unique to this community (as there are not many users my age with teenagers). In this specific topic, you have a confluence of all three approaches. Sometimes my counter point is not one I strongly hold, but without its inclusion in the discussion you have an incomplete review of the subject. No one learns if nothing new is stated.

[DubWolf 17,554]

A club of disabled ponies? I feel like that would just segregate ponies from ponies. If you know what I mean? Then again, I don't see why anyone couldn't form a club.

 

I don't think Derpy was meant to be "disabled", but rather just a clumsy derp .

[Tao 8,396]

In a lot of ways I love Derpy and the fandom has

also given her at times a lot of depth and let

her evolve into a Pony all her in if anything from

some good vids and fanfics and art!   Hell she's even

a single mom, working full time and doing her best

and i think thats a good example for any kids

or us watching the show!

 

I don't she "disabled"  but just has a bit of a eye

problem! 

[Miles 2,513]

Okay, so... I'm joining this here crew after half-time (sorry guys, traffic was bad LOL).

Anyway.  I have read everything here up until this point.  So, I might jump at a few things here and there.

Firstly, I just want to mention that I have family members with Downs [syndrome] - not that it really makes a difference, but just saying I have firsthand experience with them.

 

Now, one thing I saw here that really threw me for a loop (and yes, I have seen the original version, I promise you): y'all are up in arms about her voice?  Golly gee whiz, I know of plenty of women with deep voices.  I mean, I do understand that it was a mistake, and that it was a voice meant for a stallion, but they were wrong and obviously Derpy's a girl.  But really, I can't say I understand how her voice is the big deal.  Maybe there's a slight impediment or speech slur there, but to be honest the only thing that I could catch was, literally, that she talked a bit slowly.  

 

---

 

If you intentionally censor yourself and go out of your way to be polite and nice to someone, that isnt being normal. That is saying "Oh I know you have a disability so I should make it a huge deal by putting on a fake smile and fake emotions and fake voice just for you. Does that make you feel alienated and an outsider?"

 

I've got a bit of a shocker here... I treat everyone with equal respect unless they disrespect me... BUT that doesn't mean I treat person A the same as person B (the same as person C...) - no, I don't do that.  

And you might say "well that's hypocritical and fake of you to...."

NO.  No it is not.  Why?  Because I treat certain people differently to adhere more personally with their personalities.  It's quite the opposite of being fake, actually, because it's who I am to treat people in a way that more closely follows their own personalities.  

 

I don't treat anyone with disrespect who hasn't shown disrespect to me.
But, I also don't treat everyone with the same amount of affection, attention span, kindness, voice clarity (yes, I will speak slightly differently with different people, even); etc...

Intentionally censoring or de-censoring yourself to talk to different people is... *wait for it*

Absolutely expected of you.

 

Do you think I'd go up around my mother talking like I might sometimes talk with the fellers I work with outside all day in the summer time - patching roads with asphalt patch, digging ditches, mowing, cutting up and lifting fallen limbs into the back of a truck, [and countless other things, etc.]?

My coworkers and supervisors (etc.) talk like your average Street Department/Road Crew for a City Employer... they talk like sailors ... 

 

So, I'll just end this section by saying - there's nothing wrong with treating disabled people differently.  Why?  Because you treat non-disabled people differently, TOO --- that's why!  So, I say there's nothing wrong with showing more kindness and politeness to someone who might have a disability.  
 

---
 

*Changing gears here, lol*

 

Also, I have a habit of posting as a contrarian to both further the discussion, offer an alternate take using others points of view, and occasionally a perspective on some topics that is relatively unique to this community (as there are not many users my age with teenagers). In this specific topic, you have a confluence of all three approaches. Sometimes my counter point is not one I strongly hold, but without its inclusion in the discussion you have an incomplete review of the subject. No one learns if nothing new is stated.

 

Admittedly... you and me both, Jeric... You and me both.

 

 

 

 

 

~ Miles

[Guest90210 3,569]

Yes, it was about the eyes. Overreactive soccer moms flipped their lids over something that wasn't offensive. There are clearly no ill-will by Hasbro by creating that character, it was just a nod to the fans.

 

If Derpy is "offensive", then so is Ed from Ed Edd n Eddy, Cheese from Foster's Home For Imaginary friends, etc. People will get offended by anything, even if the "offending" is illusionary.

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

Now, one thing I saw here that really threw me for a loop (and yes, I have seen the original version, I promise you): y'all are up in arms about her voice?  Golly gee whiz, I know of plenty of women with deep voices.  I mean, I do understand that it was a mistake, and that it was a voice meant for a stallion, but they were wrong and obviously Derpy's a girl.  But really, I can't say I understand how her voice is the big deal.  Maybe there's a slight impediment or speech slur there, but to be honest the only thing that I could catch was, literally, that she talked a bit slowly.  

If she just had a masculine voice that would be weird, but it wouldn't be an issue. The voice has a certain exaggerated quality to it that is reminiscent of when people are making bad imitations of the mentally disabled. It could have worked out fine if Derpy was a colt like Tabitha St. Germain thought the character was. For an adult mare it just sounded really off. Plus as has been said multiple times in this thread: it was ultimately about a lot of little things coming together. In isolation it would be okay.

[Miles 2,513]

If she just had a masculine voice that would be weird, but it wouldn't be an issue. The voice has a certain exaggerated quality to it that is reminiscent of when people are making bad imitations of the mentally disabled. It could have worked out fine if Derpy was a colt like Tabitha St. Germain thought the character was. For an adult mare it just sounded really off. Plus as has been said multiple times in this thread: it was ultimately about a lot of little things coming together. In isolation it would be okay.

 

 

I guess, to be fair, I would almost be lead to believe that, had she not been cross-eyed, the voice issue may have been overlooked.  I just listened to it again, actually, and I still don't think it's overly masculine, nor does the impediment sound all too exaggerated.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It sounds like a believable impediment in my own ears.  Much like that of the little filly's who was saved by RD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I guess you might have half a point in comparing their ages, but I must say, not all people outgrow their speech impediments.  And, obviously, not all people with these impediments have actual disabilities.  So, I think it's like you said, all the small things added together are what made this a bigger deal.  I just wonder how different people would have reacted if only one thing was changed (from the get-go, that is) - just her eyes.  

 

I wonder...

[Fractured 2,684]

I guess, to be fair, I would almost be lead to believe that, had she not been cross-eyed, the voice issue may have been overlooked.  I just listened to it again, actually, and I still don't think it's overly masculine, nor does the impediment sound all too exaggerated.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It sounds like a believable impediment in my own ears.  Much like that of the little filly's who was saved by RD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I guess you might have half a point in comparing their ages, but I must say, not all people outgrow their speech impediments.  And, obviously, not all people with these impediments have actual disabilities.  So, I think it's like you said, all the small things added together are what made this a bigger deal.  I just wonder how different people would have reacted if only one thing was changed (from the get-go, that is) - just her eyes.  

 

I wonder...

Would anyone even care, then? She'd be similar to the colt who rode the hippo in Pinkie's Pride.

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

I just wonder how different people would have reacted if only one thing was changed (from the get-go, that is) - just her eyes.  

 

I wonder...

Well the wall-eyes are kind of the raison d'etre of Derpy, so it would be pointless to not have them.

 

The more I think about it, it was really the name that ultimately killed her.

 

Amy Keating Rogers herself even said, "And as for cutting her name, if it truly can be defined as "retarded," then I am personally glad that name is gone. I wouldn't want my writing to perpetuate children--our target audience--to call other children "derpy" with that meaning behind it."

[Princess Pinny 6,099]

I wouldn't call having crossed eyes a disability.

[Miles 2,513]

Would anyone even care, then? She'd be similar to the colt who rode the hippo in Pinkie's Pride.

 

Well the wall-eyes are kind of the raison d'etre of Derpy, so it would be pointless to not have them.

 

The more I think about it, it was really the name that ultimately killed her.

 

Amy Keating Rogers herself even said, "And as for cutting her name, if it truly can be defined as "retarded," then I am personally glad that name is gone. I wouldn't want my writing to perpetuate children--our target audience--to call other children "derpy" with that meaning behind it."

 

 

 

 

 

 

***Not trying to be offensive here, I promise.  Just pulling in something that seems a bit relevant for humor's sake***

[Celli 4,343]

Derpy's cool and all, but I think it would be best if they kept her in the background. Unless they do something in the 100th episode.

[Orablanco Account 3,707]

Honestly, I think it was the voice. If it was just the eyes I think no one would have cared, but the voice, cute as it was, sounded a little too close to that stereotypical dumb voice everyone thinks of when they're mocking people.

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

You all seem a bit dusty on your Derpy history. You see, some politically-correct mother looked up "Derpy" on the Internet and found some BS definition saying it was slang for "retarded." That started a small movement. Only a very small number of people complained, but they were vocal enough that Hasbro had to do something. Physical disability in a cartoon is not new, but for some reason people are massively sensitive toward mental disability and the idea that someone would even dare to soil our children's minds with something as real as mental disability.

Yes I looked this up about a year ago. The writers named her "Derpy" thinking the word meant clumsy. Then some PC hypersensitive person brought up that "Derpy" is supposedly some nasty word for retarded so the whole disabled community started screaming at Hasbro. I have a feeling if they named her something else originally it never would have happened but I believe that Hasbro has a right to say what they want and do what they want with the characters as long as it remains appropriate for the demographic. I HATE when political correctness destroys art. I found this whole "stop saying retard" campaign once and I was like words like ""idiot" "stupid" and "retard" are parts of everyday speech! Relax!" I hate bullying but PC is just nuts now.  I have Cerebral Palsy so I have seen how pissed disability rights activists can get. 

Edited October 6, 2014 by StitchandMLPlover

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

It was us bronies that named her actually. That's why we love her so much. We were calling her 'Derpy' since early season 1, and DHX caught on and was cool enough to name her that.

Oh cool. That's even better! Or AWESOME as RD would say!!

[veryoriginalponyname 121]

I only see Derpy as being a bit clumsy. Scootaloo I think works better as a character with a disability.

[Dash865 49]

I see her as clumsy too, also she has an eye condition. But I don't think she is mentally disabled. 

 

I do like her edited voice vs the first. But I think my favorite voice is:

[Cloud Yeller 69]

While I can see why someone would think they are making fun of the mentally challenged I still think they overreacted and like most outraged folks they probably didn't watch the show, they made an assumption based on a still image.  It's the voice that probably does it more than anything else and while I'm alright with the original I'm also alright with them changing it.

 

I work with a person who has Strabismus, which is the proper term for the "cross eye/ wall eye" condition.  She is clumsy because of it as it severely hampers binocular vision and hence depth perception.   She walks into door frames and hits tables all the time.  Having Derpy be clumsy is an accurate portrayal of somepony with that condition.

 

I also have a nephew and a cousin with Down Syndrome.  I know how the mentally challenged act (well at least one type).  What I saw when I watched The Last Roundup for the first time was not a mentally challenged pony.  I saw a juvenile pony acting like a juvenile.  She was obviously not helping to put up the decorations in that scene.  She was like a kid jumping on the couch while mom tried to hang the decorations.  If the voice was a little different I don't think there would have been any controversy.

 

I'll just end this post with a nice song about Derpy, because Derpy

 

Edited October 8, 2014 by Cloud Yeller