Why Aren't You an Athiest?

[Shadow Beam 1,179]

I consider myself agnostic. Within I hold no proof of a superior divinity existence, neither one that counters it.

One thing I do believe however, is that the exemplary models and principles teached through religion, disregarding completely if its divine traits are true or not, are essential for a well-guided moral in a society.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

(God or Allah or whatever you want to call him).

 

Allah is arabic for "God" just thought I'd let you know. 

 

@@Midnight Gaze,

 

Fair enough.

 

Okay, I'm not an atheist for a number of reasons. They all come back to something similar though.

 

I'm an idealist at heart and my life has given me so much more evidence of the existence of a greater divinity than it has against such. Most of all, through people. From my family, to my teachers, to this fandom, to random strangers from all around the world. The overwhelming majority of people I've interacted with have been good. Bad people are the exception that proves the rule, they stand out because one doesn't expect it when someone is cantankerous, hateful, and unpleasant.

 

I believe in the Divine because I believe in people.

 

Apart from that, I'm just a faith driven person by nature. (INFP)

Edited April 19, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

Because everything I've ever learned or witnessed is consistent with what the Bible teaches.

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

This isn't in the debate pit, so I probably shouldn't be arguing... but...

 

The unlikely chance that we came from nothing has nothing to do with whether or not God exists. Consider, for the sake of simplicity, you have to roll a bunch of die, and only one outcome—say, for example, all sixes—leads to the creation of a universe capable of supporting human life. Eventually, if you roll these die an infinite number of times, you will inevitably roll all sixes at least once. Bam! Humans exist in "that universe."

 

We couldn't exist in a universe that is not perfect for us, so the fact that we exist in a universe that is perfect for us says nothing. We don't know what the odds are of a universe capable of supporting life are, but that much is irrelevant. If there are infinitely many universes, or at least a large number, only ones that are capable of supporting life will support life. Therefore, we can only exist here, and it doesn't really mean anything.

 

Another way to think about it would be like this. You exist, right? In order for you to exist right now, as you are now, a bunch of things had to happen in sequence. Your parents had to meet each other. Your parents had to exist. The parents of your parents had to exist, and so on. You could look at this and say that it seems like someone planned this out so that you could exist in the way you do.

 

But consider what you could say if any one of those events never happened. You wouldn't exist... and then you wouldn't be here to say that the universe was designed a certain way for you to exist. You can only exist in a universe that will permit you to do so. There are millions, billions, trillions, and infinitely many people who could exist, but don't. That's the other side of the random chance.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Admiral Regulus

[John 793]

1.)  Because of the complexity of biological life on a molecular level.

2.)  Because of some things which have happened to me in my lifetime which are so improbable that I would consider them to be miraculous.

3.)  Because I've felt something incredible which is impossible to explain to others, but is worth devoting part of my life to.

4.)  Because I believe "good" and "evil" to be objective things.

5.)  Because Christianity is epic XD  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av0OjugpMX8&list=PL_5sxR5OBuTgMtXEbtBFreb_QQt6VXs7K

[Jaxsie (Inactive) 1,343]

@@Admiral Regulus,

 

You can't make something from nothing; this is a fact. Follow the line as far back as you wish, but the only logical conclusion is a Creator.

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

@@Admiral Regulus,

 

You can't make something from nothing; this is a fact. Follow the line as far back as you wish, but the only logical conclusion is a Creator.

 

But then where did the creator come from? Either way, no matter whether you believe in a creator or not, it's a moot point. No one can explain that.

[Alphys Hedge 671]

BEECUZ GOD IZ REEL AND U SHUD BEELEEV IN HIM HES DA BEST U R STOOPID IF U DONT BALEEVE

 

Lol in all honesty, I can't stand the though of dying, then not existing. It drives me CRAZY trying to think of what happens when we die. I just like believing in something.

[Jaxsie (Inactive) 1,343]

But then where did the creator come from? Either way, no matter whether you believe in a creator or not, it's a moot point. No one can explain that.

 

God is eternal. Your looking at this from a base, finite, human perspective -- your trying to compare God with your own mortality. God can not be made and can not die; He has always been and will always be -- forever.

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

God is eternal. Your looking at this from a base, finite, human perspective -- your trying to compare God with your own mortality. God can not be made and can not die; He has always been and will always be -- forever.

 

Then why can you not say the same for the universe?

 

Matter and energy has always been and will always be--forever. If it is possible that something always exists, then there needs to be no God for the universe to exist, always.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Admiral Regulus

[Tanos 179]

This isn't in the debate pit, so I probably shouldn't be arguing... but...

 

The unlikely chance that we came from nothing has nothing to do with whether or not God exists. Consider, for the sake of simplicity, you have to roll a bunch of die, and only one outcome—say, for example, all sixes—leads to the creation of a universe capable of supporting human life. Eventually, if you roll these die an infinite number of times, you will inevitably roll all sixes at least once. Bam! Humans exist in "that universe."

 

The inherent problem with your example is that rolling a 2 6s with a pair of dice is a quantifiable probability. For the universe to come from nothing, it'd be like the odds of rolling a sum of 43 with your dice Edited April 19, 2015 by Tanos

[John 793]

This isn't in the debate pit, so I probably shouldn't be arguing... but...

 

The unlikely chance that we came from nothing has nothing to do with whether or not God exists. Consider, for the sake of simplicity, you have to roll a bunch of die, and only one outcome—say, for example, all sixes—leads to the creation of a universe capable of supporting human life. Eventually, if you roll these die an infinite number of times, you will inevitably roll all sixes at least once. Bam! Humans exist in "that universe."   Convergent series XD.   You need to take Calculus 2 my friend!  :3

 

We couldn't exist in a universe that is not perfect for us, so the fact that we exist in a universe that is perfect for us says nothing. We don't know what the odds are of a universe capable of supporting life are, but that much is irrelevant. If there are infinitely many universes, or at least a large number, only ones that are capable of supporting life will support life. Therefore, we can only exist here, and it doesn't really mean anything.  We only have evidence of one Universe at the moment.  Assuming there to be more is just as presumptuous as assuming there to be a creator.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization

 

Another way to think about it would be like this. You exist, right? In order for you to exist right now, as you are now, a bunch of things had to happen in sequence. Your parents had to meet each other. Your parents had to exist. The parents of your parents had to exist, and so on. You could look at this and say that it seems like someone planned this out so that you could exist in the way you do.

 

But consider what you could say if any one of those events never happened. You wouldn't exist... and then you wouldn't be here to say that the universe was designed a certain way for you to exist. You can only exist in a universe that will permit you to do so. There are millions, billions, trillions, and infinitely many people who could exist, but don't. That's the other side of the random chance.

 

 

I can tell you're thinking this through fully, but your logic may not be as valid as you think >.>

Edited April 19, 2015 by John

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

The inherent problem with your example is that rolling a 2 6s with a pair of dice is a quantifiable probability. For the universe to come from nothing, it'd be like the odds of rolling a of 43 with your dice

 

The assumption that nothing exists outside of the universe is just that—an assumption.

 

You know, back when humanity was in its infancy, people thought the world was flat. Then, we discovered the world is round. Then, we discovered some of the lights in the sky are other planets like our own; Earth is just one of eight around our sun. But that's not all. We discovered the sun is just one of many billions of stars. We discovered we live in a galaxy that is just one of billions.

 

So, as we know it, we are in this one universe, in this one galaxy, around this one star, on this one planet. And that's all we know.

 

So, who is to say our entire universe, too, is not just one of billions? Who is to say that there is nothing outside of "space?" The idea that it's just this universe and that's it is an assumption, and it's not one I hold in high likelihood.

 

Of course, a goldfish who's spent his entire life in a little fishbowl has no idea the Atlantic ocean exists. We are merely goldfish, and our little fishbowl is our tiny little rock out in space.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Admiral Regulus

[Commissar Alexer 763]

Because Religion has always been a part of humanity, wether it was animism or one of the abrahaimc religions.

[Tanos 179]

do you know what convergent series are?  XD

 

I'm talking about in a single toss, not adding previous sums

[John 793]

I'm talking about in a single toss, not adding previous sums

sorry!  meant to quote the guy you quoted XD

Edited April 19, 2015 by John

[Tanos 179]

sorry!  meant to quote the guy you quoted XD

Got it, (lol I can admit that I had Google that since I forget what they are XD)

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

Oh, convergent series? I remember those.

 

The sum of all integers k from 0 to infinity in the expression (-1)^k * x^1+2k / (1+2kⁿ)! converges to sin(x).

 

It was through these convergent series that Euler proved e^ix = cos(x) + i * sin(x).

Edited April 19, 2015 by Admiral Regulus

[Midnight Gaze 131]

Is this thread turning Into a debate? If so, I suggest the debate continue in PMs.

[John 793]

The assumption that nothing exists outside of the universe is just that—an assumption.

 

You know, back when humanity was in its infancy, people thought the world was flat. Then, we discovered the world is round. Then, we discovered some of the lights in the sky are other planets like our own; Earth is just one of eight around our sun. But that's not all. We discovered the sun is just one of many billions of stars. We discovered we live in a galaxy that is just one of billions.

 

So, as we know it, we are in this one universe, in this one galaxy, around this one star, on this one planet. And that's all we know.

 

So, who is to say our entire universe, too, is not just one of billions? Who is to say that there is nothing outside of "space?" The idea that it's just this universe and that's it is an assumption, and it's not one I hold in high likelihood.

^    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization    Hasty generalization bro!!

 

Also, saying "there's one, therefore there are many" is not logically valid..

Edited April 19, 2015 by John

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

This isn't in the debate pit, so I probably shouldn't be arguing... but...

 

The unlikely chance that we came from nothing has nothing to do with whether or not God exists. Consider, for the sake of simplicity, you have to roll a bunch of die, and only one outcome—say, for example, all sixes—leads to the creation of a universe capable of supporting human life. Eventually, if you roll these die an infinite number of times, you will inevitably roll all sixes at least once. Bam! Humans exist in "that universe."

 

We couldn't exist in a universe that is not perfect for us, so the fact that we exist in a universe that is perfect for us says nothing. We don't know what the odds are of a universe capable of supporting life are, but that much is irrelevant. If there are infinitely many universes, or at least a large number, only ones that are capable of supporting life will support life. Therefore, we can only exist here, and it doesn't really mean anything.

 

Another way to think about it would be like this. You exist, right? In order for you to exist right now, as you are now, a bunch of things had to happen in sequence. Your parents had to meet each other. Your parents had to exist. The parents of your parents had to exist, and so on. You could look at this and say that it seems like someone planned this out so that you could exist in the way you do.

 

But consider what you could say if any one of those events never happened. You wouldn't exist... and then you wouldn't be here to say that the universe was designed a certain way for you to exist. You can only exist in a universe that will permit you to do so. There are millions, billions, trillions, and infinitely many people who could exist, but don't. That's the other side of the random chance.

That's a good point, if you already blindly assume on faith that what happens is by chance.

[A Black Circle 1,586]

Too many "unexplained coincidences" have occurred.

Is this thread turning Into a debate? If so, I suggest the debate continue in PMs.

Yes, yes, yes. Please stop making this a debate, we have, like, eight of them in other threads. This is why you're christian, debate should have nothing to do with this.

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

^    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization    Hasty generalization bro!!

 

Also, saying "there's one, therefore there are many" is not logically valid..

 

Well, it's a pretty myopic viewpoint to assume that there aren't other other worlds, other universes, other possibilities. You have to recognize that scale is all relative. To the bacteria in your gut, there is no universe beyond that. To the dinosaurs on the prehistoric Earth, there was no universe beyond that. To the fish in the sea, there is nothing beyond that. To the little green men on some planet a million light years away, there is nothing beyond that. To us here, in this universe we all share, we again assume there is nothing beyond what we see.

 

But we all know, the universe is BIG. Our entire lives are nothing but a grain of sand compared to all of human history. All of human history is nothing but a grain of sand compared to the universe's history. The entire solar system isn't even a grain of sand compared to the many stars in the galaxy, and the many galaxies in the universe. We're not just talking billions, but trillions. We truly can't even fathom how big everything is.

 

So, come on. What are the odds of that we'll ever find the ending point? Really? To say that there is such a point, especially one tangible to us, strikes me as being utterly absurd. It's inductive reasoning, I admit, to assume that what we see is not all there is... but it's reasoning, nonetheless.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Admiral Regulus

[Codelyy 1,286]

I don't know if what i believe is what a religion believes but i believe that after you die, your soul is released and your body dies. I believe that your body is armour for your soul and once the armour is gone... your soul is released.

 

I don't believe in any God or anything else.

 

I also won't lie about this but i believe religion shouldn't be around anymore. I dislike any religion because all it does is cause pain. A slight thought of happiness thinking someone is watching and protecting you mixed in with people killing each other because of their believes. Terrorist attacks are a cause of religion, Homophobia is a cause of religion. I MUST say though that this is my opinion and i think that if you believe in any God then that's fine as long as you don't shove your believes in people's faces.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Code

[John 793]

Well, it's a pretty myopic viewpoint to assume that there aren't other other worlds, other universes, other possibilities. You have to recognize that scale is all relative. To the bacteria in your gut, there is no universe beyond that. To the dinosaurs on the prehistoric Earth, there was no universe beyond that. To the fish in the sea, there is nothing beyond that. To the little green men on some planet a million light years away, there is nothing beyond that. To us here, in this universe we all share, we again assume there is nothing beyond what we see.

 

But we all know, the universe is BIG. Our entire lives are nothing but a grain of sand compared to all of human history. All of human history is nothing but a grain of sand compared to the universe's history. The entire solar system isn't even a grain of sand compared to the many stars in the galaxy, and the many galaxies in the universe. We're not just talking billions, but trillions. We truly can't even fathom how big everything is.

 

So, come on. What are the odds of that we'll ever find the ending point? Really? To say that there is such a point, especially one tangible to us, strikes me as being utterly absurd.

 

 

Well there's this nice theory called "The Big Bang Theory" that I suggest you look into.  All of our evidence (and it's very good evidence) at the moment points to the universe being finite.  Another thing you should consider is that space itself is actually expanding, and (from what we can predict) the Universe will eventually cease to be able to support life.  Not only does the "Big Freeze" look inevitable, but it is likely that eventually nucleons will decay and the very structure of matter as we know it will be forever destroyed.

 

Aside from that, why are you making assumptions (using the hasty generalization fallacy) about there being "other universes?"  As I've said before, "where there's one, there's more" isn't logically valid.  >.>

Edited April 19, 2015 by John